botnetWorks - Call for experimental botnet beta testers

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by gtownfunk, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. gtownfunk

    gtownfunk Guest

    We are just about to release a product and are looking for some
    serious beta testers to give it a spin and let us know how you like
    it:

    botnetSim - The Botnet Simulator

    Includes:
    - Command and control - IRC, Twitter and HTTP based C&C models
    included
    - Bot Agents - IRC, Twitter and HTTP based bots included
    - Experimental propagation model to simulate the infection of
    vulnerable machines on your network
    - Fake vulnerability - no way for botnet to 'go wild'

    Features:
    - Full source code included
    - Written in C# instead of obscure scripting languages hackers might
    use
    - Runs on the .NET Framework you are familiar with
    - No malicious code, educational comments where malicious code might
    occur in malware

    Sign up on our website: http://www.botnetWorks.com/
    Or send me an email:

    Thanks,
    Ben Camp
    botnetWorks - putting botnets work for the good guys!
     
    gtownfunk, Mar 5, 2010
    #1
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  2. gtownfunk

    Virus Guy Guest

    gtownfunk wrote:

    > We are just about to release a product and are looking for
    > some serious beta testers to give it a spin and let us know
    > how you like it:
    >
    > botnetSim - The Botnet Simulator


    Introductory Price - Starting at only $1995.00

    > Or send me an email:


    I'm posting this (to 3 usenet newsgroup) as well as e-mailing to that
    address, and and .

    Please explain your business model where you think that individuals and
    organizations will find it useful to purchase your product for approx.
    $2k.

    ============
    Over the next 12 months we plan to release several educational and
    experimental products to help your organization understand both the
    security risks that malware botnets pose as well as the potential
    windfall of savings that a benevolent botnet can provide.
    ===========

    Please explain or define the term "benevolent botnet".
     
    Virus Guy, Mar 5, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "Virus Guy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > gtownfunk wrote:
    >
    >> We are just about to release a product and are looking for
    >> some serious beta testers to give it a spin and let us know
    >> how you like it:
    >>
    >> botnetSim - The Botnet Simulator

    >
    > Introductory Price - Starting at only $1995.00
    >
    >> Or send me an email:

    >
    > I'm posting this (to 3 usenet newsgroup) as well as e-mailing to that
    > address, and and .
    >
    > Please explain your business model where you think that individuals
    > and
    > organizations will find it useful to purchase your product for approx.
    > $2k.
    >
    > ============
    > Over the next 12 months we plan to release several educational and
    > experimental products to help your organization understand both the
    > security risks that malware botnets pose as well as the potential
    > windfall of savings that a benevolent botnet can provide.
    > ===========
    >
    > Please explain or define the term "benevolent botnet".


    Folding@home and seti@home are examples of distributed computing.
     
    FromTheRafters, Mar 5, 2010
    #3
  4. gtownfunk

    gtownfunk Guest

    Hey Guy,

    While you yourself may be well educated in how botnets operate, not
    everyone in the world is. I am well aware that you can go and dig up
    malware source code and create your own malware.. and do it all for
    free.

    Our software allows the comfort of experimenting with your own network
    of bot agents without the risks of malware and out of control
    propagation looming overhead. Like I said earlier, you yourself may
    know all about botnets already.. and as such you might not be a
    potential customer of ours. Time is money, I'm sure $1995 is barely
    the overhead your company pays each week to keep you around. Our
    objective is not to provide a fancy feature-rich botnet for hardcore
    consumption. Our intent is to enlighten with simplicity not to obscure
    with complexity.

    If we can help someone who is interested but doesn't have the time to
    get knee-deep in black hat websites, then we have succeeded.

    Here's a quick example of a "benevolent botnet" that could reduce risk
    but wouldn't realistically provide a windfall of savings... A simple
    botnet could query local DNS servers and report back any anomalies.
    This way, a DNS hack could likely be detected even if it was to only
    affect a small percentage of the internet.

    Hope that helps clear things up.

    Ben Camp
     
    gtownfunk, Mar 5, 2010
    #4
  5. From: "gtownfunk" <>

    | Hey Guy,

    | While you yourself may be well educated in how botnets operate, not
    | everyone in the world is. I am well aware that you can go and dig up
    | malware source code and create your own malware.. and do it all for
    | free.

    | Our software allows the comfort of experimenting with your own network
    | of bot agents without the risks of malware and out of control
    | propagation looming overhead. Like I said earlier, you yourself may
    | know all about botnets already.. and as such you might not be a
    | potential customer of ours. Time is money, I'm sure $1995 is barely
    | the overhead your company pays each week to keep you around. Our
    | objective is not to provide a fancy feature-rich botnet for hardcore
    | consumption. Our intent is to enlighten with simplicity not to obscure
    | with complexity.

    | If we can help someone who is interested but doesn't have the time to
    | get knee-deep in black hat websites, then we have succeeded.

    | Here's a quick example of a "benevolent botnet" that could reduce risk
    | but wouldn't realistically provide a windfall of savings... A simple
    | botnet could query local DNS servers and report back any anomalies.
    | This way, a DNS hack could likely be detected even if it was to only
    | affect a small percentage of the internet.

    | Hope that helps clear things up.

    | Ben Camp

    For ~$2,000.00 ?

    NO

    A "company" would go for something more reputable such as BotHunter
    http://www.bothunter.net/

    A collaboration of SRI and US Army RDECOM.

    Like there is no benevolent virus, there is no benevolent botnet.


    /* What are you thinking ? */

    --
    Dave
    http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
    Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp
     
    David H. Lipman, Mar 5, 2010
    #5
  6. gtownfunk

    Char Jackson Guest

    On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:31:36 -0800 (PST), gtownfunk
    <> wrote:

    >Our intent is to enlighten with simplicity not to obscure
    >with complexity.


    That phrase is so slick I can't let it get away without stealing it.
     
    Char Jackson, Mar 5, 2010
    #6
  7. gtownfunk

    gtownfunk Guest

    > For ~$2,000.00 ?
    > NO


    Do you have a suggestion? :) What price do you think is
    appropriate? You threw out a piece of botnet detection software,
    great.. but that's not what this is.

    >
    > Like there is no benevolent virus, there is no benevolent botnet.


    Looks like somebody drank the kool-aid. The world is not out to get
    you. Uranium can destroy our cities or it can power them, choose
    wisely.

    >
    > /*  What are you thinking ?  */
    >


    // that c is dead { btw, all the cool kids have commenting in pascal
    for years now }

    Seriously, though, I do appreciate the feedback even if it isn't all
    positive. Thanks to all who have replied so far via usenet and email.

    Ben Camp
    botnetWorks - putting botnets to work for the good guys!
    http://www.botnetworks.com/
     
    gtownfunk, Mar 5, 2010
    #7
  8. gtownfunk

    gtownfunk Guest

    On Mar 4, 9:05 pm, Char Jackson <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:31:36 -0800 (PST), gtownfunk
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > >Our intent is to enlighten with simplicity not to obscure
    > >with complexity.

    >
    > That phrase is so slick I can't let it get away without stealing it.


    Well then, it's a good thing I didn't leave any words out of the
    middle like I have in half my other posts.

    I'm still stuck with the visual of a bunch of 13 year old kids with
    botnets vs the US Army and their botnet detectors. Its all influenced
    by the fact that ET was on HBO the other day, so in my mind's eye the
    botnet detectors are little geiger counter looking devices and the US
    Army is stumbling through the internet in astronaut suits like it was
    Elliot's house and they were afraid of what they were going to find.
    Time for bed I guess.

    Cheers,

    Ben
     
    gtownfunk, Mar 5, 2010
    #8
  9. gtownfunk

    Oliver Guest

    On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:31:36 -0800 (PST), gtownfunk <>
    wrote this:

    >Our software allows the comfort of experimenting with your own network
    >of bot agents without the risks of malware and out of control
    >propagation looming overhead.


    I admire one particular historical figure I met during my Middle Ages
    period. He was from around Normandy and had a well fortified keep
    in which he hung his enemies by their testicles from the rafters. That was
    until either the owner died or his testicles dropped the offending
    individual off upon which time the Noble Duc roasted him.

    His military keep was never breached and he had many many friends at
    Court. His people loved him..

    Oliver.
    ..

    -----------------------------------------
    In the fifth century B.C., the Greek historian Herodotus
    described modernity as a demigod who mutters angrily
    at us, demanding that we entertain fantasy in place of
    dull rigid fact.
    ----------------------------------------
     
    Oliver, Mar 5, 2010
    #9
  10. gtownfunk

    gtownfunk Guest

    On Mar 5, 4:25 am, "Ant" <> wrote:
    > "gtownfunk" wrote:
    > > - Written in C#

    >
    > Yuk.
    >
    > > instead of obscure scripting languages hackers might use

    >
    > Bot authors prefer ASM, C or C++.
    >


    Agreed, not trying to market to bot authors.

    > > - Runs on the .NET Framework you are familiar with

    >
    > Am I? I did a five day course on it once.
    > So, it won't run on a unix box.


    Not right now. We're trying to keep it simple enough to run through
    Mono though such a release is quite a ways off.

    Ben Camp
    http://www.botnetworks.com/
     
    gtownfunk, Mar 5, 2010
    #10
  11. gtownfunk

    gtownfunk Guest

    On Mar 5, 8:31 am, "T.H" <> wrote:
    > gtownfunk wrote:
    > > We are just about to release a product and are looking for some
    > > serious beta testers to give it a spin and let us know how you like
    > > it:

    >
    > > snip...

    >
    > I like your Micro$oft marketing model.  Selling /Beta/ software to the
    > end user.  SELLING Beta software.


    Well, to be clear the preliminary pricing information that is on the
    website is not for the beta testers program. Some pending updates to
    the website will go live in a couple hours since I suppose this was
    not clear enough. Right now our projected release date is May 31st.
    We're hoping to have beta copies in the hands of our testers around
    April 1st.

    >
    > It has worked for Micro$oft though.  You are more honest than Micro$oft
    > about the developmental state of your product.  That is  a refreshing truth.
    >
    > Good luck.


    *grin*

    Ben Camp
    http://www.botnetworks.com/
     
    gtownfunk, Mar 5, 2010
    #11
  12. "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Like there is no benevolent virus, there is no benevolent botnet.


    This assumes that computing power is being stolen. Otherwise a botnet is
    just called distributed computing. A virus is always called a virus
    whether it steals computing power or not - it is assumed that an
    infecting virus will always be malicious because it is stealing power at
    the very least. The definition of virus has nothing to do with malware,
    whereas the definition of botnet seems to be "malicious distributed
    computing network".
     
    FromTheRafters, Mar 6, 2010
    #12
  13. From: "FromTheRafters" <>

    | "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
    | news:...

    >> Like there is no benevolent virus, there is no benevolent botnet.


    | This assumes that computing power is being stolen. Otherwise a botnet is
    | just called distributed computing. A virus is always called a virus
    | whether it steals computing power or not - it is assumed that an
    | infecting virus will always be malicious because it is stealing power at
    | the very least. The definition of virus has nothing to do with malware,
    | whereas the definition of botnet seems to be "malicious distributed
    | computing network".


    FTR wins the prize.

    I figured you would understand as you had mentioned the SET@Home project.

    Compare D-Computing vs. Botnet and what constraints are there on the C2 mechanism ?

    --
    Dave
    http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
    Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp
     
    David H. Lipman, Mar 6, 2010
    #13
  14. "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
    news:...
    > From: "FromTheRafters" <>
    >
    > | "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
    > | news:...
    >
    >>> Like there is no benevolent virus, there is no benevolent botnet.

    >
    > | This assumes that computing power is being stolen. Otherwise a
    > botnet is
    > | just called distributed computing. A virus is always called a virus
    > | whether it steals computing power or not - it is assumed that an
    > | infecting virus will always be malicious because it is stealing
    > power at
    > | the very least. The definition of virus has nothing to do with
    > malware,
    > | whereas the definition of botnet seems to be "malicious distributed
    > | computing network".
    >
    >
    > FTR wins the prize.
    >
    > I figured you would understand as you had mentioned the SET@Home
    > project.


    This site and Wikipedia both mention in passing that most times the term
    'botnet' refers to the malicious ones.

    http://www.topbits.com/botnet.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botnet

    > Compare D-Computing vs. Botnet and what constraints are there on the
    > C2 mechanism ?


    Will do, but not just now.

    Just as a disk copying program (xcopy?) was a virus, Pluto was a planet.
    Through no fault of their own, no change on their part, they just lose
    status when the entire class gets redefined. :eek:D
     
    FromTheRafters, Mar 6, 2010
    #14
  15. gtownfunk

    gtownfunk Guest

    In the most basic sense, it is absolutely true that a botnet is little
    more than a distributed computing platform.

    I'll throw my own thoughts out there on the subtle differences:

    A botnet benefits more from and exploits its geographical diversity
    than does a conventional distributed computing application. A botnet
    also implies there is some command and control aspect.

    -whereas-

    Most distributed computing applications benefit from being able to
    pool computational resources and are driven on the communication side
    by little more than maximum throughput and minimal latency. Most
    applications aren't told what to do by the server, they are programmed
    to do what they do and request data to process and return the results.

    Trust me on this, there are many companies out there running
    distributed applications who would LOVE to have the power and control
    that a bunch of teenagers managing their IRC botnets had over a decade
    ago.

    Ben Camp
    http://www.botnetworks.com/
     
    gtownfunk, Mar 6, 2010
    #15
  16. David H. Lipman, Mar 6, 2010
    #16
  17. On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:31:36 -0800 (PST), gtownfunk wrote:

    > Our software allows the comfort of experimenting with your own network
    > of bot agents without the risks of malware and out of control
    > propagation looming overhead.


    Trying to break /any/ system is the only way to validate its security.
    How else are you going to test it? Just claim it is secure?

    > Like I said earlier, you yourself may know all about botnets
    > already.. and as such you might not be a potential customer of
    > ours. Time is money, I'm sure $1995 is barely the overhead your
    > company pays each week to keep you around.


    I have a hard time firing myself. lol

    > Our objective is not to provide a fancy feature-rich botnet for
    > hardcore consumption. Our intent is to enlighten with simplicity
    > not to obscure with complexity.
    >
    > If we can help someone who is interested but doesn't have the time to
    > get knee-deep in black hat websites, then we have succeeded.
    >
    > Here's a quick example of a "benevolent botnet" that could reduce risk
    > but wouldn't realistically provide a windfall of savings... A simple
    > botnet could query local DNS servers and report back any anomalies.
    > This way, a DNS hack could likely be detected even if it was to only
    > affect a small percentage of the internet.
    >
    > Hope that helps clear things up.


    Whether you get $1995 for your software, whether it is worth that,
    less or more, isn't your decision. You have built your revenue model
    on false pretences.

    Maybe it is right but if so it's not because you have secured that
    information from market research. The info you get from Usenet
    historically will not be from business owners but from code boys and
    those with a bunch of spare time on their hands. With absolutely
    unproven qualifications. Best of luck with that.


    --
    All you Ferrari drivers, come join us at www.ferrarichat.com !
     
    ♥Ari ♥, Mar 6, 2010
    #17
  18. gtownfunk

    Dustin Cook Guest

    "FromTheRafters" <> wrote in news:hmsalm$gce$1
    @news.eternal-september.org:

    > "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> Like there is no benevolent virus, there is no benevolent botnet.

    >
    > This assumes that computing power is being stolen. Otherwise a botnet is
    > just called distributed computing. A virus is always called a virus
    > whether it steals computing power or not - it is assumed that an
    > infecting virus will always be malicious because it is stealing power at
    > the very least. The definition of virus has nothing to do with malware,
    > whereas the definition of botnet seems to be "malicious distributed
    > computing network".
    >
    >
    >


    It's not malicious for stealing cpu cycles alone. It's considered malicious
    because it makes unwanted changes to other aspects of the system, sometimes
    with dire results; and not intended by the author. Obviously this applies
    to viruses, and not this fellows botnet for sale...


    --
    "Hrrngh! Someday I'm going to hurl this...er...roll this...hrrngh.. nudge
    this boulder right down a cliff." - Goblin Warrior
     
    Dustin Cook, Mar 12, 2010
    #18
  19. gtownfunk

    Dustin Cook Guest

    "Ant" <> wrote in
    news::

    > "gtownfunk" wrote:
    >
    >> - Written in C#

    >
    > Yuk.
    >
    >> instead of obscure scripting languages hackers might use

    >
    > Bot authors prefer ASM, C or C++.
    >
    >> - Runs on the .NET Framework you are familiar with

    >
    > Am I? I did a five day course on it once.
    > So, it won't run on a unix box.
    >
    >
    >


    It's .NET based? Well, I know of 2 computers in this house that aren't able
    to run it short of me installing the .NET support files beforehand.

    What a sorry state of affairs. Most potentially malicious code was asm, c,
    or c++, even VB at times.. but now.. .NET? I'm going to go in a corner a
    puke now.


    --
    "Hrrngh! Someday I'm going to hurl this...er...roll this...hrrngh.. nudge
    this boulder right down a cliff." - Goblin Warrior
     
    Dustin Cook, Mar 12, 2010
    #19
  20. "Dustin Cook" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9D3933CB0D724HHI2948AJD832@69.16.185.247...
    > "FromTheRafters" <> wrote in
    > news:hmsalm$gce$1
    > @news.eternal-september.org:
    >
    >> "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>> Like there is no benevolent virus, there is no benevolent botnet.

    >>
    >> This assumes that computing power is being stolen. Otherwise a botnet
    >> is
    >> just called distributed computing. A virus is always called a virus
    >> whether it steals computing power or not - it is assumed that an
    >> infecting virus will always be malicious because it is stealing power
    >> at
    >> the very least. The definition of virus has nothing to do with
    >> malware,
    >> whereas the definition of botnet seems to be "malicious distributed
    >> computing network".
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > It's not malicious for stealing cpu cycles alone. It's considered
    > malicious
    > because it makes unwanted changes to other aspects of the system,
    > sometimes
    > with dire results; and not intended by the author.


    ***
    Are you saying they (viruses) are considered malicious because they tend
    to be buggy?
    ***

    > Obviously this applies to viruses, and not this fellows botnet for
    > sale...


    ***
    I was just trying to show that the definition (Turing machine
    computational model) of "virus" is less like "malware" and more like
    "neutral" as in more like an automated copy/paste operation performed on
    itself. Sure, if a contemporary virus infects programs that the user
    doesn't want infected, it is malware (makes unwanted modifications). The
    term "virus" does not mean "malware" while the term "botnet" apparently
    does - else they would be called "distributed computing networks". So
    botnet will always have a negative connotation, by definition (just as
    Pluto will never again be a planet, by definition).
    ***
     
    FromTheRafters, Mar 12, 2010
    #20
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