Boot times vs Shutdown times

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Skybuck Flying, Sep 10, 2011.

  1. Trying to reduce boot times is nice and all... but it should not be done at
    the cost of "shutdown time".

    Windows 7 takes much longer to shutdown than Windows XP and it's quite
    annoying.

    Now I read this slashdot article and things are about to get worse with
    Windows 8 it seems:

    More shutdown time BAH !

    http://slashdot.org/

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 10, 2011
    #1
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  2. Skybuck Flying, Sep 10, 2011
    #2
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  3. Skybuck Flying

    Dave Warren Guest

    In message <3b3b5$4e6ac6a9$5419acc3$1.nb.home.nl>
    someone claiming to be "Skybuck Flying" <>
    typed:

    >Trying to reduce boot times is nice and all... but it should not be done at
    >the cost of "shutdown time".


    Why not? Boot times are something the user must wait for, and cannot be
    avoided. Shutdown times barely matter, since you can tell the machine
    to shut down and walk away without waiting.

    >Windows 7 takes much longer to shutdown than Windows XP and it's quite
    >annoying.


    Mine doesn't, shutdown here is noticeably faster on my desktop and was
    on my laptop last I compared.

    >Now I read this slashdot article and things are about to get worse with
    >Windows 8 it seems:
    >
    >More shutdown time BAH !
    >
    >http://slashdot.org/


    It also occurs to me that the new hibernate file may not need to be
    re-written on every shutdown anyway, once one is saved it might be
    possible to re-use it.
     
    Dave Warren, Sep 10, 2011
    #3
  4. It probably depends on the situation.

    People who want to start working for many hours with the computer can surely
    wait a few seconds at boot time, those few seconds don't matter.

    People who want to get to bed don't want to wait many minutes or hours for
    windows shutdown to finish updating and what not.

    Also people in a hurry and which most go do not have the time to wait for
    shutdown.

    Other examples includes students which have to log out from systems because
    the hour is gone... they must make room for other students.

    Here log out time matters more then login time.

    Overal I think shutdown time is probably even more important than boot time.

    Give me one good example where a quick startup time is essential ?

    I can barely remember anything really...

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 10, 2011
    #4
  5. Skybuck Flying

    BullDawg Guest

    Why wait? Just turn off your monitor or close the lid and walk away, go to
    bed, or whatever. Give me one reason why one would want to wait and monitor
    the shutdown process?


    --
    _________________

    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    _________________
    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    news:83cc8$4e6b5199$5419acc3$1.nb.home.nl...
    > It probably depends on the situation.
    >
    > People who want to start working for many hours with the computer can
    > surely wait a few seconds at boot time, those few seconds don't matter.
    >
    > People who want to get to bed don't want to wait many minutes or hours for
    > windows shutdown to finish updating and what not.
    >
    > Also people in a hurry and which most go do not have the time to wait for
    > shutdown.
    >
    > Other examples includes students which have to log out from systems
    > because the hour is gone... they must make room for other students.
    >
    > Here log out time matters more then login time.
    >
    > Overal I think shutdown time is probably even more important than boot
    > time.
    >
    > Give me one good example where a quick startup time is essential ?
    >
    > I can barely remember anything really...
    >
    > Bye,
    > Skybuck.
     
    BullDawg, Sep 10, 2011
    #5
  6. "
    Why wait? Just turn off your monitor or close the lid and walk away, go to
    bed, or whatever. Give me one reason why one would want to wait and monitor
    the shutdown process?
    "

    1. Bugs/problems during shutdown it happens, it never shuts down.

    Little problems can lead to big problems like:

    2. High electricity bill.

    3. High temperatures, system damage.

    4. Fire.

    5. Maybe even hackers, internet, wifi etc.

    6. Dust build up.

    7. Fan failure.

    8. Insects getting sucked in.

    9. Lightning strike at night.

    10. Power troubles at night with power company.

    11. Unnecessary tearing of harddisk when it never shutsdown.

    12. Other odd behaviour.

    That's plenty already.

    13. Perhaps a quick restart because you forgot to do something important
    before leaving.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 11, 2011
    #6
  7. Skybuck Flying

    BullDawg Guest

    Then you have a bigger problem than shutdown. Slow shutdowns are the
    symptom, not the cause. You need to find the cause, correct it and the slow
    shutdown will go away. BTW, my shutdown takes 17 seconds from clicking on
    shutdown to power off. Cold boots take 45 seconds.
    --
    _________________

    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    _________________
    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    news:a037c$4e6c28e9$5419acc3$1.nb.home.nl...
    > "
    > Why wait? Just turn off your monitor or close the lid and walk away, go
    > to
    > bed, or whatever. Give me one reason why one would want to wait and
    > monitor
    > the shutdown process?
    > "
    >
    > 1. Bugs/problems during shutdown it happens, it never shuts down.
    >
    > Little problems can lead to big problems like:
    >
    > 2. High electricity bill.
    >
    > 3. High temperatures, system damage.
    >
    > 4. Fire.
    >
    > 5. Maybe even hackers, internet, wifi etc.
    >
    > 6. Dust build up.
    >
    > 7. Fan failure.
    >
    > 8. Insects getting sucked in.
    >
    > 9. Lightning strike at night.
    >
    > 10. Power troubles at night with power company.
    >
    > 11. Unnecessary tearing of harddisk when it never shutsdown.
    >
    > 12. Other odd behaviour.
    >
    > That's plenty already.
    >
    > 13. Perhaps a quick restart because you forgot to do something important
    > before leaving.
    >
    > Bye,
    > Skybuck.
     
    BullDawg, Sep 11, 2011
    #7
  8. Ofcourse not.

    It's a Microsoft problem, they fok up all the time.

    It's actually quite a bad idea to do updates during a shutdown when people
    walk away.

    They have no idea that an update was applied.

    If the next day the computer malfunctions then they won't know because it
    was because of an update.

    Perhaps it's a conspiracy by Microsoft to try and hide problems caused by
    updates.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 11, 2011
    #8
  9. Skybuck Flying

    BullDawg Guest

    *plonk* I was trying to be nice, but I forgot: DNFTT

    --
    _________________

    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    _________________
    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    news:561e9$4e6cab16$5419acc3$1.nb.home.nl...
    > Ofcourse not...
    >
     
    BullDawg, Sep 11, 2011
    #9
  10. It seems like you ran out of arguments and are now convinced by me.

    And the only thing you can say to that is calling me a troll.

    Well all I can say about that is: "o snap"

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 12, 2011
    #10
  11. Skybuck Flying

    Dave Warren Guest

    In message <83cc8$4e6b5199$5419acc3$1.nb.home.nl>
    someone claiming to be "Skybuck Flying" <>
    typed:

    >People who want to start working for many hours with the computer can surely
    >wait a few seconds at boot time, those few seconds don't matter.


    Then seconds shutting down shouldn't matter either, if you're about to
    sleep for many hours you can surely wait a few more seconds on shutdown.

    >People who want to get to bed don't want to wait many minutes or hours for
    >windows shutdown to finish updating and what not.
    >
    >Also people in a hurry and which most go do not have the time to wait for
    >shutdown.


    So don't wait. When you boot your computer, you can't proceed until the
    computer finishes booting. Conversely, when you're shutting down, you
    can tell the computer to shut down and proceed with your life (go to
    bed/whatever) immediately without waiting.

    >Other examples includes students which have to log out from systems because
    >the hour is gone... they must make room for other students.
    >
    >Here log out time matters more then login time.


    There are a set of instances where one will be better than the other,
    this is true. My point is that /overall/, startup time matters
    virtually every time you boot a computer whereas shutdown time only
    actually matters in a small number of cases (primarily where you intend
    on changing hardware, disconnecting the power, etc. Reboots don't count
    *if* you gain the time back on the subsequent bootup)

    >Overal I think shutdown time is probably even more important than boot time.
    >
    >Give me one good example where a quick startup time is essential ?


    Each and every time I'm sitting waiting for my computer to start -- I
    can't proceed with the next thing I intend on doing since this next task
    would require the computer to be turned on.
     
    Dave Warren, Sep 12, 2011
    #11
  12. The importance of the occurences is also much more important than the
    frequency.

    For example.

    Every day your boring life starts and you bore up the computer, no problem
    there.

    But what if you have to go to an important party or an important meeting and
    you want to go there with the train ?!

    And now the system starts to screw up the shutdown ?!

    That train won't wait an additional 10 seconds.

    You come 1 second to late and the train is gone ! ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 13, 2011
    #12
  13. Skybuck Flying

    Dave Warren Guest

    In message <79337$4e6eb716$5419acc3$1.nb.home.nl>
    someone claiming to be "Skybuck Flying" <>
    typed:

    >The importance of the occurences is also much more important than the
    >frequency.
    >
    >For example.
    >
    >Every day your boring life starts and you bore up the computer, no problem
    >there.
    >
    >But what if you have to go to an important party or an important meeting and
    >you want to go there with the train ?!
    >
    >And now the system starts to screw up the shutdown ?!
    >
    >That train won't wait an additional 10 seconds.
    >
    >You come 1 second to late and the train is gone ! ;)


    Exactly why you turn the computer off and walk away.

    The whole trick here is that you don't have to wait for a computer to
    finish shutting down (unless you're rebooting, in which case you're
    waiting the startup time so you need to consider the total time for
    both)

    Conversely, you typically can't proceed to use the computer on startup
    until the startup finishes.
     
    Dave Warren, Sep 16, 2011
    #13
  14. Apperently there could even be more risk, by applieing updates during
    shutdowns.

    You walk away....

    The next day when you boot the system it tries and finishes the update, by
    gives no indication that this is going on.

    The update takes so long, you think the system hang and you reset it !

    Consequence:

    Possible system corruption !

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 25, 2011
    #14
  15. Skybuck Flying

    Dave Warren Guest

    In message <c2bc1$4e7e679d$5419acc3$1.nb.home.nl>
    someone claiming to be "Skybuck Flying" <>
    typed:

    >Apperently there could even be more risk, by applieing updates during
    >shutdowns.
    >
    >You walk away....
    >
    >The next day when you boot the system it tries and finishes the update, by
    >gives no indication that this is going on.


    If by giving you no indication, you mean that it tells you that it's
    installing "Update 1 of 3...", then you're correct, unless this is being
    removed from Windows 8.

    >The update takes so long, you think the system hang and you reset it !
    >
    >Consequence:
    >
    >Possible system corruption !


    Updates generally shouldn't cause system corruption even if aborted
    unexpectedly. This is one of the benefits of the WinSxS implementation
    the updated files are written first, then linked into the appropriate
    place in the filesystem all at once in a journaled transaction.

    Should that transaction fail, the journal allows the system to
    automatically revert to the previous configuration and the next update
    installation will take care of the problem.

    More importantly, what you've described can happen whether they focus on
    faster startups or shutdowns, so the point is moot.
     
    Dave Warren, Sep 25, 2011
    #15
  16. It was an interesting hypothesis none the less...

    With no indication I mean absolutely nothing, except a hanging harddisk
    light.

    The question is if updates happen at all if the system reboots...

    The answer could be yes.

    However what I experienced might be explained by falling harddisks.

    Maybe old harddisk failed or maybe new harddisk failed.

    It was also interesting to see how Knoppix/Linux detected harddisk failure
    but windows could not.

    Windows failed to boot at first... maybe it's because that drive
    malfunctioned and Knoppix was started from DVD.

    Also finally I kept trying and it did boot... maybe the successfull boot was
    a fluke of luck.

    Finally I disconnected old drives and it booted...

    What the hell is going on I don't know... could also be weird electrical
    behaviour.

    For now best course of action for me is to:

    1. Not shutdown the system until I have made enough backups of all critical
    data.

    And then figure out what the hell is happening.

    It could still be update related or microsoft's virus scanner related... it
    could be anything.

    Microsoft tools should definetly give more information about what they are
    doing, especially the repair tool.

    So far Windows could be considered a miracle... here I am it's still
    working... but it was very close...

    My system could have been dead already...

    Fortunately I didn't panic too much and didn't do too many stupid things...

    But windows could definetly be made a bit better here and there... I think
    windows could learn a little bit from linux when it comes to failing
    harddisk...

    Weeeiiirrd stuff going on this morning... very weird stuff...

    Harddisk-protocol problems I think...

    I don't know but I'll try and figure it out.

    Could also be windows file system problem though... I read once.. that
    windows 7 would lead to corruption... it was supposed to be fixed ?!? But
    maybe a bug is still in there ??!

    As I said... could be anything... but my safest bet is: trouble in harddisk
    land...

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 26, 2011
    #16
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