Boot Disk Query

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by Chris M, Mar 29, 2005.

  1. Chris M

    Chris M Guest

    Hi,

    I'm currently studying for 70-290 and I have a small query about boot
    floppies.

    The books that I have state that you can create a boot disk by simply quick
    formatting a floppy and copying NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI.

    I decided to test this on Virtual PC by creating a virtual floppy and doing
    the above.

    I deleted NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI from the C: drive of my server
    and rebooted. Sure enough, I get 'NTLDR is missing, press Ctrl-Alt-Del to
    restart'.

    I put the virtual floppy into the server, and reboot. And the same thing
    happens. Server will not boot. Booting directly from the floppy (i.e.
    changing the boot order in the BIOS) has no effect because of course the
    floppy has no boot record (the book quite clearly states that you just do a
    normal format of the floppy, which of course doesn't write a boot sector).

    The book quite clearly states that a floppy like this will enable you to
    start 2003 server in the event that the boot record or the files that 2003
    server uses to boot up become corrupted. I fail to see how this can work,
    especially if the boot record on the server's hard disk becomes corrupted.

    What am I doing wrong, and how can the startup disk work when the server's
    boot record is corrupt and the boot floppy has no boot record?

    Thanks to all in advance,

    --
    Chris M.
     
    Chris M, Mar 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. Maybe this response your question
    Creating a Boot Floppy
    The ASR disk is not a bootable disk. If you want to make a floppy that you
    can use to load the
    OS when it won’t load off the hard disk, you’ll have to copy those files to
    a floppy. That floppy will
    not be machine-specific so long as all computers have the OS installed in
    the same directory, so you
    can keep it in your panic kit, and it’s filesystem-independent.
    A boot floppy is useful in any of the following situations:
    â—† Corrupted boot sector
    â—† Corrupted master boot record (MBR)
    â—† Boot virus infections that keep the machine from booting
    â—† Missing or corrupt NTLDR or NTDetect.com
    â—† Incorrect NTBootdd.sys driver
    Oddly enough, although making an NT boot floppy has been common practice for
    years, there’s
    still no utility in the OS that you can employ to make one. (You can create
    Setup disks from the
    \bootdisk\makeboot command on the installation CD, but that’s not the same
    thing. Those are Setup
    disks, this is a boot floppy, like a DOS boot floppy with autoexec.bat and
    config.sys on it.) The
    Windows NT floppy disk must include the files NTLDR, NTDetect.com, boot.ini,
    and the correct
    device driver for your hard drive.
    Creating a Boot Floppy from the CD
    If you don’t have another Server 2003 box around but do have the
    installation CD, then you can get
    the files you need. Copy the NTDetect.com and NTLDR files from the i386
    folder on the CD-ROM
    to the new disk. Rename the NTLDR file to setupldr.bin.
    The next step is to create the boot.ini file that the OS uses to determine
    which operating system
    it should load and where that operating system is located. boot.ini files
    are just text files. For
    example, the following works for a single partition IDE drive with Server
    2003 installed under
    \winnt; the exact value in the [operating systems] section depends upon the
    configuration of
    the Windows NT System you want to boot:
    [boot loader]
    timeout=30
    Default= multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\winnt
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\winnt=â€Server 2003 â€
    WINNT, in this case, is the name of the system root directory.
    Tip If your computer boots from a SCSI hard drive, replace the multi(0) with
    scsi(0). If you are using scsi(x)
    in the boot.ini, copy the correct device driver for the SCSI controller in
    use on the computer, and then rename it on
    the floppy to NTBootdd.sys. If you are using multi(x) in boot.ini, you do
    not need to do this.
    "Chris M" wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm currently studying for 70-290 and I have a small query about boot
    > floppies.
    >
    > The books that I have state that you can create a boot disk by simply quick
    > formatting a floppy and copying NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI.
    >
    > I decided to test this on Virtual PC by creating a virtual floppy and doing
    > the above.
    >
    > I deleted NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI from the C: drive of my server
    > and rebooted. Sure enough, I get 'NTLDR is missing, press Ctrl-Alt-Del to
    > restart'.
    >
    > I put the virtual floppy into the server, and reboot. And the same thing
    > happens. Server will not boot. Booting directly from the floppy (i.e.
    > changing the boot order in the BIOS) has no effect because of course the
    > floppy has no boot record (the book quite clearly states that you just do a
    > normal format of the floppy, which of course doesn't write a boot sector).
    >
    > The book quite clearly states that a floppy like this will enable you to
    > start 2003 server in the event that the boot record or the files that 2003
    > server uses to boot up become corrupted. I fail to see how this can work,
    > especially if the boot record on the server's hard disk becomes corrupted.
    >
    > What am I doing wrong, and how can the startup disk work when the server's
    > boot record is corrupt and the boot floppy has no boot record?
    >
    > Thanks to all in advance,
    >
    > --
    > Chris M.
    >
    >
    >
     
    =?Utf-8?B?a3VreQ==?=, Mar 29, 2005
    #2
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  3. Chris M

    Ben Smith Guest

    In article <4249a32b$0$83068$>,
    ial says...
    > Subject: Boot Disk Query
    > From: "Chris M" <>
    > Newsgroups: microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsa, microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, microsoft.public.windows.server.general
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm currently studying for 70-290 and I have a small query about boot
    > floppies.
    >
    > The books that I have state that you can create a boot disk by simply quick
    > formatting a floppy and copying NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI.
    >


    Not quite.

    See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;816793

    BTW - this was the 4th entry from the top when searching
    http://support.microsoft.com on "ntldr"
     
    Ben Smith, Mar 29, 2005
    #3
  4. Chris M wrote:

    > I deleted NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI from the C: drive of my
    > server and rebooted. Sure enough, I get 'NTLDR is missing, press
    > Ctrl-Alt-Del to restart'.


    Chris... please don't take this too personally, but...

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH that's the best laugh I've had in a while.

    Please explain why you deleted the files off of drive C:
     
    =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE?=, Mar 29, 2005
    #4
  5. Chris M

    Chris M Guest

    "Frisbee®" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    >> I deleted NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI from the C: drive of my
    >> server and rebooted. Sure enough, I get 'NTLDR is missing, press
    >> Ctrl-Alt-Del to restart'.

    >
    > Chris... please don't take this too personally, but...
    >
    > BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH that's the best laugh I've had in a while.
    >
    > Please explain why you deleted the files off of drive C:


    Erm, cos it's running on Virtual PC, and I'm using it for testing and
    learning, and restoring them using the recovery console takes all of about 5
    minutes?

    Please read my post fully before replying with some smart-ass comment. I
    deleted them on purpose. You will see that I'm trying to test the boot disk
    that *should* enable the server to boot in the absence of these files. And
    it doesn't. And I'm trying to find out why.

    *sigh* I could be so much more offensive, Frisbee, but I tend not to do that
    kind of thing on usenet. I'll just have to settle with insulting your
    reading and comprehension skills.

    --
    Chris.
     
    Chris M, Mar 29, 2005
    #5
  6. Chris M

    Briscobar Guest

    In news:4249b154$0$83058$,
    Chris M <> rambled:
    >
    > *sigh* I could be so much more offensive, Frisbee, but I tend not to
    > do that kind of thing on usenet. I'll just have to settle with
    > insulting your reading and comprehension skills.


    Nice play.

    --

    KB - MCNGP "silent thug" #26

    Briscobar AT gmail DOT com

    When a girl walks in with a itty bitty waist and a round thing in your
    face, you get www.mcngp.com.
     
    Briscobar, Mar 29, 2005
    #6
  7. Chris M

    Chris M Guest

    "Ben Smith" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> The books that I have state that you can create a boot disk by simply
    >> quick
    >> formatting a floppy and copying NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI.
    >>

    >
    > Not quite.
    >
    > See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;816793


    Thanks for the response Ben. I have read the link, but I must be missing
    something. OK, the article says that I *might* have a NTBootdd.sys file, but
    not necessarily. My server did not have an Ntbootdd.sys file.

    The boot.ini file already points to the right place since it was copied
    straight from the server I'm trying to boot.

    I really cannot see what steps I've missed. Any pointers will be much
    appreciated.

    Thanks again,

    --
    Chris.
     
    Chris M, Mar 29, 2005
    #7
  8. Chris M

    CBIC Guest

    > *sigh* I could be so much more offensive, Frisbee, but I tend not to
    > do that kind of thing on usenet. I'll just have to settle with
    > insulting your reading and comprehension skills.


    Oh come on. Try being more offensive. It's been kinda dull around here
    lately.
    --
    aka
    Doom MCNGP #38
    How in the hell did you get access to a computer?
    www.mcngp.com invented the internet
     
    CBIC, Mar 29, 2005
    #8
  9. Chris M

    Ben Smith Guest

    In article <4249b2ff$0$83052$>,
    ial says...
    > "Ben Smith" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >> The books that I have state that you can create a boot disk by simply
    > >> quick
    > >> formatting a floppy and copying NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI.
    > >>

    > >
    > > Not quite.
    > >
    > > See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;816793

    >
    > Thanks for the response Ben. I have read the link, but I must be missing
    > something. OK, the article says that I *might* have a NTBootdd.sys file, but
    > not necessarily. My server did not have an Ntbootdd.sys file.


    This file is only present and used if you have a scsi controller.

    >
    > The boot.ini file already points to the right place since it was copied
    > straight from the server I'm trying to boot.
    >
    > I really cannot see what steps I've missed. Any pointers will be much
    > appreciated.


    IIRC, you get a different error than NTLDR canoot be found if the
    boot.ini is wrong.

    > Thanks again,
    >
    >
     
    Ben Smith, Mar 29, 2005
    #9
  10. Chris M wrote:
    > "Frisbee®" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >>> I deleted NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI from the C: drive of my
    >>> server and rebooted. Sure enough, I get 'NTLDR is missing, press
    >>> Ctrl-Alt-Del to restart'.

    >>
    >> Chris... please don't take this too personally, but...
    >>
    >> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH that's the best laugh I've had in a while.
    >>
    >> Please explain why you deleted the files off of drive C:

    >
    > Erm, cos it's running on Virtual PC, and I'm using it for testing and
    > learning, and restoring them using the recovery console takes all of
    > about 5 minutes?
    >
    > Please read my post fully before replying with some smart-ass
    > comment. I deleted them on purpose. You will see that I'm trying to
    > test the boot disk that *should* enable the server to boot in the
    > absence of these files. And it doesn't. And I'm trying to find out
    > why.
    >
    > *sigh* I could be so much more offensive, Frisbee, but I tend not to
    > do that kind of thing on usenet. I'll just have to settle with
    > insulting your reading and comprehension skills.


    READNG AND COMPR3H3NSION SKILS??!?! OMG LOL I HAEV NO IEDA WUT UR TOKNG
    ABOUT11!!! OMG WTF LOL MAH R3ADNG AND COMPR3HENSION SKILS R 2P-NOTCH AS R
    MAH WRITNG SKILS!!11 OMG WTF AND IMM GREAT IN BD 2!!!1 OMG WTF JUST ASK MAH
    WIEF!11! WTF LOL ON S3COND THOUGHT DONT111!1!!1 WTF BUT IM GOD BLEIVA
    IT!!1!!11! OMG WTF LOL
     
    =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE?=, Mar 29, 2005
    #10
  11. Briscobar wrote:
    > In news:4249b154$0$83058$,
    > Chris M <> rambled:
    >>
    >> *sigh* I could be so much more offensive, Frisbee, but I tend not to
    >> do that kind of thing on usenet. I'll just have to settle with
    >> insulting your reading and comprehension skills.

    >
    > Nice play.


    I thought we was budz
     
    =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE?=, Mar 29, 2005
    #11
  12. Chris M

    Briscobar Guest

    In news:,
    Frisbee® <> rambled:
    > Briscobar wrote:
    >> In news:4249b154$0$83058$,
    >> Chris M <> rambled:
    >>>
    >>> *sigh* I could be so much more offensive, Frisbee, but I tend not to
    >>> do that kind of thing on usenet. I'll just have to settle with
    >>> insulting your reading and comprehension skills.

    >>
    >> Nice play.

    >
    > I thought we was budz


    We iz. But he was right...at least it seemed obvious to me what he was
    trying to do. I dont' know if you were joking around or had a little brain
    fart, but I knew he deleted them intentionally, for testing purposes.

    Although, as a standalone quote, with no context, "I deleted NTDETECT.COM,
    NTLDR and BOOT.INI from the C: drive of my server and rebooted. Sure enough,
    I get 'NTLDR is missing, press Ctrl-Alt-Del to restart'." is pretty darn
    funny.

    --

    KB - MCNGP "silent thug" #26

    Briscobar AT gmail DOT com

    Please to be click www.mcngp.com. Rgs!
     
    Briscobar, Mar 29, 2005
    #12
  13. Chris M

    Briscobar Guest

    In news:,
    Frisbee® <> rambled:
    > Chris M wrote:
    >> "Frisbee®" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >>>> I deleted NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI from the C: drive of my
    >>>> server and rebooted. Sure enough, I get 'NTLDR is missing, press
    >>>> Ctrl-Alt-Del to restart'.
    >>>
    >>> Chris... please don't take this too personally, but...
    >>>
    >>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH that's the best laugh I've had in a while.
    >>>
    >>> Please explain why you deleted the files off of drive C:

    >>
    >> Erm, cos it's running on Virtual PC, and I'm using it for testing and
    >> learning, and restoring them using the recovery console takes all of
    >> about 5 minutes?
    >>
    >> Please read my post fully before replying with some smart-ass
    >> comment. I deleted them on purpose. You will see that I'm trying to
    >> test the boot disk that *should* enable the server to boot in the
    >> absence of these files. And it doesn't. And I'm trying to find out
    >> why.
    >>
    >> *sigh* I could be so much more offensive, Frisbee, but I tend not to
    >> do that kind of thing on usenet. I'll just have to settle with
    >> insulting your reading and comprehension skills.

    >
    > READNG AND COMPR3H3NSION SKILS??!?! OMG LOL I HAEV NO IEDA WUT UR
    > TOKNG ABOUT11!!! OMG WTF LOL MAH R3ADNG AND COMPR3HENSION SKILS R
    > 2P-NOTCH AS R MAH WRITNG SKILS!!11 OMG WTF AND IMM GREAT IN BD 2!!!1
    > OMG WTF JUST ASK MAH WIEF!11! WTF LOL ON S3COND THOUGHT DONT111!1!!1
    > WTF BUT IM GOD BLEIVA IT!!1!!11! OMG WTF LOL


    Dat sh!t's LOLLERSKATES, yo.

    ROFLCOPTER, even.

    --

    KB - MCNGP "silent thug" #26

    Briscobar AT gmail DOT com

    Is www.mcngp.com experienced? Well I am...
     
    Briscobar, Mar 29, 2005
    #13
  14. Chris M

    Chris M Guest

    "Ben Smith" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> The boot.ini file already points to the right place since it was copied
    >> straight from the server I'm trying to boot.
    >>
    >> I really cannot see what steps I've missed. Any pointers will be much
    >> appreciated.

    >
    > IIRC, you get a different error than NTLDR canoot be found if the
    > boot.ini is wrong.


    Hi Ben,

    Sorry, yes, you're right, the error is different - I had the boot order set
    wrong - it was still trying to boot from hard disk first.

    However, when I changed the order to floppy first (with my virtual floppy
    disk in A:), I get the usual 'Non-system disk error'

    --
    Chris.
     
    Chris M, Mar 29, 2005
    #14
  15. Chris M

    Neil Guest

    did you hear "Chris M" <> say in
    news:4249a32b$0$83068$:

    > The books that I have state that you can create a boot disk by simply
    > quick formatting a floppy and copying NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and
    > BOOT.INI.


    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/325879/EN-US/

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - SLEEP? I'm a SYSOP!
     
    Neil, Mar 29, 2005
    #15
  16. Chris M

    Neil Guest

    did you hear Ben Smith <> say in
    news::

    >> Thanks for the response Ben. I have read the link, but I must be
    >> missing something. OK, the article says that I *might* have a
    >> NTBootdd.sys file, but not necessarily. My server did not have an
    >> Ntbootdd.sys file.

    >
    > This file is only present and used if you have a scsi controller.


    actually only required if you have a SCSI controller AND the bios is not
    INT13 enabled. More often than not the NTBOOTDD.SYS file is not required.
    There are some oddities now with the PnP features of Windows that adds a
    SIGNATURE entry into the ARC naming paths that can really screw things
    up. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q227704/

    (http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/Windows/2000/server/res
    kit/en-us/Default.asp?
    url=/resources/documentation/Windows/2000/server/reskit/en-
    us/core/fnbb_str_njcp.asp

    or

    http://tinyurl.com/5b25x

    are also good reads though they are from the Win2000 reskit)

    >
    >>
    >> The boot.ini file already points to the right place since it was
    >> copied straight from the server I'm trying to boot.
    >>
    >> I really cannot see what steps I've missed. Any pointers will be much
    >> appreciated.

    >
    > IIRC, you get a different error than NTLDR canoot be found if the
    > boot.ini is wrong.
    >


    I believe you get an NTOSKRNL.EXE not found...

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - 'Bother,' said Pooh, as he took aim from behind the grassy knoll.
     
    Neil, Mar 29, 2005
    #16
  17. Chris M

    KIWI Guest

    Chris

    I created a Windows 2003 Server startup disk, as you have done, and I cannot
    boot off it to start the OS in Virtual Server....it just hands and does not
    give an error. The disk works when booting Windows XP on my host system (the
    ARC Path in boot.ini much match the server install I have)

    Try booting from your Floppy when restarting the HOST....if it works then I
    suspect you have a Virtual PC issue rather than there being a problem with
    floppy or with your methodology.

    HTH
    KIWI




    "Chris M" <> wrote in message
    news:4249a32b$0$83068$...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm currently studying for 70-290 and I have a small query about boot
    > floppies.
    >
    > The books that I have state that you can create a boot disk by simply
    > quick formatting a floppy and copying NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI.
    >
    > I decided to test this on Virtual PC by creating a virtual floppy and
    > doing the above.
    >
    > I deleted NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI from the C: drive of my server
    > and rebooted. Sure enough, I get 'NTLDR is missing, press Ctrl-Alt-Del to
    > restart'.
    >
    > I put the virtual floppy into the server, and reboot. And the same thing
    > happens. Server will not boot. Booting directly from the floppy (i.e.
    > changing the boot order in the BIOS) has no effect because of course the
    > floppy has no boot record (the book quite clearly states that you just do
    > a normal format of the floppy, which of course doesn't write a boot
    > sector).
    >
    > The book quite clearly states that a floppy like this will enable you to
    > start 2003 server in the event that the boot record or the files that 2003
    > server uses to boot up become corrupted. I fail to see how this can work,
    > especially if the boot record on the server's hard disk becomes corrupted.
    >
    > What am I doing wrong, and how can the startup disk work when the server's
    > boot record is corrupt and the boot floppy has no boot record?
    >
    > Thanks to all in advance,
    >
    > --
    > Chris M.
    >
     
    KIWI, Mar 29, 2005
    #17
  18. Chris M

    Chris M Guest

    "Chris M" <> wrote in message
    news:4249a32b$0$83068$...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm currently studying for 70-290 and I have a small query about boot
    > floppies.


    Thanks to all who replied.

    It's looking like a Virtual PC issue rather than something I'm doing wrong.
    I'm going to test it on a real system tomorrow and see what happens. I'll
    post back to confirm.

    Thanks again,

    --
    Chris M.
     
    Chris M, Mar 29, 2005
    #18
  19. Chris M

    Neil Guest

    did you hear "Chris M" <> say in
    news:4249d9f3$0$67372$:

    > "Chris M" <> wrote in message
    > news:4249a32b$0$83068$...
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I'm currently studying for 70-290 and I have a small query about boot
    >> floppies.

    >
    > Thanks to all who replied.
    >
    > It's looking like a Virtual PC issue rather than something I'm doing
    > wrong. I'm going to test it on a real system tomorrow and see what
    > happens. I'll post back to confirm.
    >
    > Thanks again,
    >


    might be worth having a peek at Ben Armstrong's Blog
    (http://blogs.msdn.com/virtual_pc_guy) as he has a few tips and tricks as
    does some of the pages he links to. Robert Moir is on that list too. (I
    love blogs)

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - This must be Thursday--I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
     
    Neil, Mar 30, 2005
    #19
  20. Chris M

    nguyenpv Guest

    Chris,

    I dont know how good Virtual PC is, but even after MS bought them
    off, Virtual Server still sucks (180 days eval, didn't like it). But
    maybe this would interest you. I'm using VMWare Version 5 Beta. It's
    free for now and it's got a lot more features. Gigabits lan support,
    cloning of system yada yada ya......I think you get more control over
    VPC or VS. Anyways, I passed 291. 700/1000. DNS questions up the
    A**.....some subnets questions, not as much as I would expect. Lots of
    RRAS, VPN, DHCP. Watch out, should get yourself a little bit familiar
    with ISA. Weird, oh and some SUS, I thought I was done with SUS
    too...LOL....anyways, barely passed it. ISA or Sec + is next for my
    MCSA +Security
    Chris M wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm currently studying for 70-290 and I have a small query about boot


    > floppies.
    >
    > The books that I have state that you can create a boot disk by simply

    quick
    > formatting a floppy and copying NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI.
    >
    > I decided to test this on Virtual PC by creating a virtual floppy and

    doing
    > the above.
    >
    > I deleted NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI from the C: drive of my

    server
    > and rebooted. Sure enough, I get 'NTLDR is missing, press

    Ctrl-Alt-Del to
    > restart'.
    >
    > I put the virtual floppy into the server, and reboot. And the same

    thing
    > happens. Server will not boot. Booting directly from the floppy (i.e.


    > changing the boot order in the BIOS) has no effect because of course

    the
    > floppy has no boot record (the book quite clearly states that you

    just do a
    > normal format of the floppy, which of course doesn't write a boot

    sector).
    >
    > The book quite clearly states that a floppy like this will enable you

    to
    > start 2003 server in the event that the boot record or the files that

    2003
    > server uses to boot up become corrupted. I fail to see how this can

    work,
    > especially if the boot record on the server's hard disk becomes

    corrupted.
    >
    > What am I doing wrong, and how can the startup disk work when the

    server's
    > boot record is corrupt and the boot floppy has no boot record?
    >
    > Thanks to all in advance,
    >
    > --
    > Chris M.
     
    nguyenpv, Mar 30, 2005
    #20
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