Books

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by Clint Kennedy, Oct 31, 2003.

  1. First, let me apologize as this question has probably been posted a hundred
    times. I'm new to the newsgroup and would like to get a general idea of
    which books to look into purchasing for the MCAD/MCSD. The general consesus
    seems to be that MS Press books are "crap." It makes me wonder if the books
    truly are crap, or if people that have never touched programming expect one
    training kit to teach them everything they need. Has anyone had SUCCESS
    using the MS Press training kit? I read the kit from QUE is good, but its
    Amazon reviews didn't seem too hot either. As for the All In One guide, it
    seems to be full of errors and way too short to cover all of the material.

    Any help will be appreciated.

    --
    Clint Kennedy
    BSCS, MCP, A+
    Systems Manager, Nevadacom
     
    Clint Kennedy, Oct 31, 2003
    #1
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  2. Clint Kennedy

    Guest Guest

    Many people refer to this or that book as crap becuase:

    1. Regardless of the quality of the book, passing the exam requires hands
    on experience, so some will study and study and then fail.
    2. Many books try to present the material based on the content of the MS
    exams, but Microsoft is constantly changing the content and format of the
    exams.


    "Clint Kennedy" <> wrote in message
    news:e9lxAW#...
    > First, let me apologize as this question has probably been posted a

    hundred
    > times. I'm new to the newsgroup and would like to get a general idea of
    > which books to look into purchasing for the MCAD/MCSD. The general

    consesus
    > seems to be that MS Press books are "crap." It makes me wonder if the

    books
    > truly are crap, or if people that have never touched programming expect

    one
    > training kit to teach them everything they need. Has anyone had SUCCESS
    > using the MS Press training kit? I read the kit from QUE is good, but its
    > Amazon reviews didn't seem too hot either. As for the All In One guide,

    it
    > seems to be full of errors and way too short to cover all of the material.
    >
    > Any help will be appreciated.
    >
    > --
    > Clint Kennedy
    > BSCS, MCP, A+
    > Systems Manager, Nevadacom
    >
    >
     
    Guest, Oct 31, 2003
    #2
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  3. Clint Kennedy wrote:

    > First, let me apologize as this question has probably been posted a hundred
    > times. I'm new to the newsgroup and would like to get a general idea of
    > which books to look into purchasing for the MCAD/MCSD. The general consesus
    > seems to be that MS Press books are "crap." It makes me wonder if the books
    > truly are crap, or if people that have never touched programming expect one
    > training kit to teach them everything they need. Has anyone had SUCCESS
    > using the MS Press training kit? I read the kit from QUE is good, but its
    > Amazon reviews didn't seem too hot either. As for the All In One guide, it
    > seems to be full of errors and way too short to cover all of the material.
    >
    > Any help will be appreciated.
    >


    I've passed tests using mspress books, but i've generally found other
    publishers to write more complete, helpful material.

    MCAD/MSCD: I recommend MCAD/MSCD Visual C# .NET Certification
    (All-In-One) from McGraw-Hill.

    -kz
     
    keith d. zimmerman, Oct 31, 2003
    #3
  4. Clint Kennedy

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >The general consesus
    >seems to be that MS Press books are "crap."


    For good reason.
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 31, 2003
    #4
  5. Clint Kennedy

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >2. Many books try to present the material based on the content of the MS
    >exams, but Microsoft is constantly changing the content and format of the
    >exams.


    In what way? After the topics stay the same.
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 31, 2003
    #5
  6. Clint Kennedy

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >passing the exam requires hands
    >on experience


    As can be seen, this is not true. There are many 'paper' mcsd's and
    mcse's out there.
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 31, 2003
    #6
  7. Clint Kennedy

    Guest Guest

    Many study guides focus attention on topics not covered or at least not
    given the same priority on the actual exam. In some cases this is becuase
    the book has not been re-edited for a year or more. Microsoft may also alter
    the material to defeat the usefulness of brain dumps.

    "Kline Sphere" <-> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >2. Many books try to present the material based on the content of the

    MS
    > >exams, but Microsoft is constantly changing the content and format of the
    > >exams.

    >
    > In what way? After the topics stay the same.
     
    Guest, Oct 31, 2003
    #7
  8. Did you USE the All-In-One book to study for and then pass the exams?


    > I've passed tests using mspress books, but i've generally found other
    > publishers to write more complete, helpful material.
    >
    > MCAD/MSCD: I recommend MCAD/MSCD Visual C# .NET Certification
    > (All-In-One) from McGraw-Hill.
    >
    > -kz
    >
     
    Clint Kennedy, Oct 31, 2003
    #8
  9. What an insightful response.

    "Kline Sphere" <-> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >The general consesus
    > >seems to be that MS Press books are "crap."

    >
    > For good reason.
     
    Clint Kennedy, Oct 31, 2003
    #9
  10. Clint Kennedy wrote:
    > Did you USE the All-In-One book to study for and then pass the exams?
    >
    >
    >
    >>I've passed tests using mspress books, but i've generally found other
    >>publishers to write more complete, helpful material.
    >>
    >>MCAD/MSCD: I recommend MCAD/MSCD Visual C# .NET Certification
    >>(All-In-One) from McGraw-Hill.
    >>
    >>-kz
    >>

    >
    >
    >


    I am in the process. I passed the MCSD 6.0 exam on books from
    McGraw-Hill, and i know the basic content of the tests. I've just
    passed the analyzing... whatever it is 70-300 test, and now am using
    the c# book to study. I really like it.

    But no, I haven't passed the test at this time.

    Guess I should have put that disclaimer on the original post. Sorry.

    --kz
     
    keith d. zimmerman, Oct 31, 2003
    #10
  11. Clint Kennedy

    Jaime Guest

    I've heard the 70-300 is the hardest test so I think it's ok not putting a
    disclaimer, lol
    "keith d. zimmerman" <_REMOVETHIS.net> wrote in message
    news:uLcmYj$...
    > Clint Kennedy wrote:
    > > Did you USE the All-In-One book to study for and then pass the exams?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >>I've passed tests using mspress books, but i've generally found other
    > >>publishers to write more complete, helpful material.
    > >>
    > >>MCAD/MSCD: I recommend MCAD/MSCD Visual C# .NET Certification
    > >>(All-In-One) from McGraw-Hill.
    > >>
    > >>-kz
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > I am in the process. I passed the MCSD 6.0 exam on books from
    > McGraw-Hill, and i know the basic content of the tests. I've just
    > passed the analyzing... whatever it is 70-300 test, and now am using
    > the c# book to study. I really like it.
    >
    > But no, I haven't passed the test at this time.
    >
    > Guess I should have put that disclaimer on the original post. Sorry.
    >
    > --kz
    >
     
    Jaime, Oct 31, 2003
    #11
  12. Clint Kennedy

    Maria Guest

    Hi Clint,

    I have used two of the MS kits (305, 306) and one of the
    Kalani books (320). Based on this, I would say that if you
    have broad on-the-job experience and only need a quick
    review of the relevant material, then the MS books are
    adequate (just). If you do not yet have the experience and
    want a structured way to explore and learn then you will
    find the Kalani book a pleasant and well-written guide.
    None of the books are error-free but the MS books were by
    far the worst (I don't know if the second editions are any
    better). The index in the MS books is useless and the MS
    habit of inserting the CDs in the index section is a pet
    hate of mine. It is unlikely that you will use the MS
    books once you have passed the exam, but in my opinion the
    Kalani book remains useful. I found the review questions
    in the MS books a waste of space but those in the Kalani
    book were very good. The bundled CD exams in *any* of the
    books were not worth the time I spent on them.
    If the Kalani books had been available when I was looking
    for training material I would not have bought the MS kits.

    As for 70-300, it appears that if you have the relevant
    experience then you will wonder what all the fuss is
    about. I am not so lucky and needed all the help I could
    get. ExamCram2 + Halpin's ORM book + Transcender + a *lot*
    of MSDN 'best practice' articles were enough in my case.
    (Don't bother with the MS book for 70-300; instead read
    one or two MSF articles in MSDN)

    All this is very subjective of coutse as everyone has a
    different background and learns in different ways, but I
    hope it helps
     
    Maria, Nov 1, 2003
    #12
  13. Clint Kennedy

    clyclopedic Guest

    "Maria" <a@b> wrote in message
    news:037801c3a0b4$7e8fda20$...
    > Hi Clint,
    >
    > As for 70-300, it appears that if you have the relevant
    > experience then you will wonder what all the fuss is
    > about. I am not so lucky and needed all the help I could
    > get. ExamCram2 + Halpin's ORM book + Transcender + a *lot*
    > of MSDN 'best practice' articles were enough in my case.
    > (Don't bother with the MS book for 70-300; instead read
    > one or two MSF articles in MSDN)


    I felt like 70-300 was too easy compared to 70-100. As you can see from
    customer reviews at Amazon, people found Designing Relational Database
    Systems by Rebecca Riordan to be helpful for 70-100
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=sr_8_1/102-7669664-2580153?v=glance&n=507846

    I certainly found it helpful. Unfortunately, Riordan has a name recognition
    problem. She is listed as both 'Rebecca Riordan' and 'Rebecca M. Riordan' at
    Amazon. And if you search this newsgroup at google, you'll sometime find her
    referred to as 'Rebecca Jordan'!
     
    clyclopedic, Nov 1, 2003
    #13
  14. Clint Kennedy

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >What an insightful response.

    Those type of books would not even constitute a good primer. My
    definition of 'crap' maybe a little harsh, but they are definitely a
    complete waste of money, which to me, makes them 'crap'. There are far
    books, as well as other resources out there, which would help an
    individual perform the simple task of pass the ms exams.
     
    Kline Sphere, Nov 2, 2003
    #14
  15. Clint Kennedy

    Kline Sphere Guest

    All true, but I have heard of the topics changing.

    On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:31:47 -0500, <WKidd> wrote:

    >
    >Many study guides focus attention on topics not covered or at least not
    >given the same priority on the actual exam. In some cases this is becuase
    >the book has not been re-edited for a year or more. Microsoft may also alter
    >the material to defeat the usefulness of brain dumps.
    >
    >"Kline Sphere" <-> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> >2. Many books try to present the material based on the content of the

    >MS
    >> >exams, but Microsoft is constantly changing the content and format of the
    >> >exams.

    >>
    >> In what way? After the topics stay the same.

    >
     
    Kline Sphere, Nov 2, 2003
    #15
  16. Clint Kennedy

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >I've heard the 70-300 is the hardest test

    Just a matter of opinion. I took the beta and found it easy (easier
    than 70-100), although very boring - I'll never take another beta
    exam!
     
    Kline Sphere, Nov 2, 2003
    #16
  17. Clint Kennedy

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >It makes me wonder if the books
    >truly are crap,


    Next time you're out and about, pop in to your local book store and
    check a few out.

    >or if people that have never touched programming expect one
    >training kit to teach them everything they need.


    Nowhere in the exams do they test you on 'programming'. Nor do the
    exams go into any great detail about the topics covered. If they did,
    people would need more than 'a few books' to pass exam's which cover
    subject areas as large and as complex as the dot net framework.
     
    Kline Sphere, Nov 2, 2003
    #17
  18. Clint Kennedy

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >I would say that if you
    >have broad on-the-job experience and only need a quick
    >review of the relevant material, then the MS books are
    >adequate (just).


    ..... and expensive.
     
    Kline Sphere, Nov 2, 2003
    #18
  19. As the other posts have indicated, there are several options and more than
    one way to skin a cat.

    I myself have found the MS Press books to be a useful review of the exam
    topics, but not enough to pass the exams. You will need to supplement any
    "prep" guide with both hands-on experience and other quality reading
    materials such as third party books by Wrox, Apress, MS Press etc and
    whitepapers from MSDN. As a final prep, you may also find the Transcenders
    to be a valuable tool.

    HTH,

    --
    Leigh Kendall MCSD, MCDBA

    "Clint Kennedy" <> wrote in message
    news:e9lxAW%...
    > First, let me apologize as this question has probably been posted a

    hundred
    > times. I'm new to the newsgroup and would like to get a general idea of
    > which books to look into purchasing for the MCAD/MCSD. The general

    consesus
    > seems to be that MS Press books are "crap." It makes me wonder if the

    books
    > truly are crap, or if people that have never touched programming expect

    one
    > training kit to teach them everything they need. Has anyone had SUCCESS
    > using the MS Press training kit? I read the kit from QUE is good, but its
    > Amazon reviews didn't seem too hot either. As for the All In One guide,

    it
    > seems to be full of errors and way too short to cover all of the material.
    >
    > Any help will be appreciated.
    >
    > --
    > Clint Kennedy
    > BSCS, MCP, A+
    > Systems Manager, Nevadacom
    >
    >
     
    Leigh Kendall, Nov 3, 2003
    #19
  20. Clint Kennedy

    Larry Guest

    The trouble is that it doesn't seem like any of the
    publishers (MS, Que, Osbourne, etc.) have found a way to
    consistently produce reliable and valid study guides.

    Based on my own experience - and lots of newsgroup
    comments I have read, it seems like some MS books are OK,
    others not. Some Que books have been helpful to people,
    others not...and that goes for all the publishers.

    Personally, I think there's too many of them - too many
    people trying to make a name for themselves as authors
    and publishers (I don't think there's any real money in
    it - but I'm certainly not sure), and not enough true
    quality.

    Also, different people have different levels of
    experience and understanding and different expectations
    as to what constitutes a good, effective a study guide.

    I agree with those who say you can't expect a study guide
    to give you all the answers. But it should RELIABLY give
    you an idea of what subject matter is covered on a test,
    what areas will be emphasized, what level of detail the
    exam is likely to go into in each subject area, and what
    the testing method and format is all about. Personally,
    I would gladly pay fifty bucks for such a book - but I
    don't really think I've seen one yet.

    Having said that, I can answer one of your questions as
    follows: As I mentioned elsewhere, I did SUCCESSFULLY
    use the MS Press Study Guide to pass 70-306. But it was
    using the study guide as a basis for learning what I had
    to learn - not as a crib sheet full of answers to me
    memorized and regurgitated at exam time - like in the
    typical college course.

    I still agree that the MS Press books are, in general,
    pretty crappy. Why? Because Microsoft SHOULD be able to
    RELIABLY tell you what subject matter is covered, where
    the emphasis is, what level of detail you need to get to,
    etc. etc. etc. But they don't. Why? Is it because they
    just want to get your fifty bucks for a crappy study
    guide? I don't think so - I'm pretty sure Bill gates
    doesn't need your fifty bucks that badly.

    It's about the usual corporate left-hand-not-knowing-what-
    the-right-hand-is-doing problem. MS Press obviously is
    not really in touch with the people who construct the
    tests. It's too bad, because a good certification
    program depends on getting the message out as to what
    talented, capable need to do to get the credential. If
    it's a guessing game, the good people will go play
    someone else's game.

    I'm working hard to get certified - I really hope the
    word doesn't get around that it's just a matter of
    finding the right brain dump or playing somebody's mind
    game. But Microsoft should recognize a responsibility
    here - it needs to go beyond just collecting fees for
    tests, books, and courses. It needs to be about
    developing a valid, relevant standard of qualification
    and a reliabvle means of understanding what that standard
    is.


    >-----Original Message-----
    >First, let me apologize as this question has probably

    been posted a hundred
    >times. I'm new to the newsgroup and would like to get a

    general idea of
    >which books to look into purchasing for the MCAD/MCSD.

    The general consesus
    >seems to be that MS Press books are "crap." It makes me

    wonder if the books
    >truly are crap, or if people that have never touched

    programming expect one
    >training kit to teach them everything they need. Has

    anyone had SUCCESS
    >using the MS Press training kit? I read the kit from

    QUE is good, but its
    >Amazon reviews didn't seem too hot either. As for the

    All In One guide, it
    >seems to be full of errors and way too short to cover

    all of the material.
    >
    >Any help will be appreciated.
    >
    >--
    >Clint Kennedy
    >BSCS, MCP, A+
    >Systems Manager, Nevadacom
    >
    >
    >.
    >
     
    Larry, Nov 4, 2003
    #20
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