Blue Frog / Blue Security?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Kyle :o\), Apr 8, 2006.

  1. Kyle :o\)

    Kyle :o\) Guest

    Anybody use a program/system called Blue Frog and Blue Security? A friend
    sent me a link to this website: http://www.bluesecurity.com Seems like a
    novel idea. Just curious if anyone uses it or has any knowledge besides the
    little I've found online.

    --
    Kyle :eek:)

    Reply address is fake. Don't ask for the real one, a troll named Lookout
    sent enough spam and viruses that I shut it down.
     
    Kyle :o\), Apr 8, 2006
    #1
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  2. Kyle :o\)

    Mike Easter Guest

    Kyle :eek:) wrote:
    > Anybody use a program/system called Blue Frog and Blue Security? A
    > friend sent me a link to this website: http://www.bluesecurity.com
    > Seems like a novel idea. Just curious if anyone uses it or has any
    > knowledge besides the little I've found online.


    Bad idea. Bad premise. Bad execution. I don't trust its integrity and
    I don't trust its methodology. There are better ways to report spam.

    Snurled googleup of 34 message thread http://snipurl.com/ov86 starting
    at

    Newsgroups: alt.spam
    Subject: Blue Frog
    Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:43:37 +0800
    Message-ID: <>

    From one of my posts to that thread:

    Blue Security tells lies in its faq^0:

    - you will be protected from spam
    - spammers maximize their profits by cleansing their lists

    Blue Security steals its name from a registered^1 safe and lock company
    in La Jolla, CA

    Blue Security steals its Blue Poison Dart Frog (Dendrobates azureus)
    logo from Azureus^2 the BitTorrent app outfit.

    BlueFrog users report^3 to the BS forum about their spam increasing
    misfortunes since participating -- Dino Rubio, spiderdeet, whitehorse

    Blue Security is simply a profit oriented venture promoted by direct
    marketers and affiliates with the same shabby business practices as
    spammers and other direct marketers.

    ^2 http://azureus.sourceforge.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azureus
    ^1 http://kepler.ss.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C1906836
    ^0 http://www.bluesecurity.com/blue-frog/products/faq.asp
    ^3
    http://community.bluesecurity.com/webx?13@433.5hosaPQdhwZ.0@.3c4a0b9a/0

    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Apr 8, 2006
    #2
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  3. Kyle :o\)

    Kyle :o\) Guest

    In news:44372293$0$15990$, Mike
    Easter <> first attempted to communicate with pen, but the
    writing was small, so next used sidewalk chalk, but the rain washed it away,
    and then switched to spray paint and stencils but the cans exploded, so
    placed fingers to keyboard for this:
    >
    > Bad idea. Bad premise. Bad execution. I don't trust its integrity
    > and I don't trust its methodology. There are better ways to report
    > spam.


    Okay so now my friend is panicked and asked me what to do since she gave
    away 3 of her e-mail addresses to them. I told her remove the program.
    Anything else she can do?
     
    Kyle :o\), Apr 8, 2006
    #3
  4. Kyle :o\)

    Kyle :o\) Guest

    In news:, Mara
    <> first attempted to communicate with pen, but
    the writing was small, so next used sidewalk chalk, but the rain washed it
    away, and then switched to spray paint and stencils but the cans exploded,
    so placed fingers to keyboard for this:
    >
    > After she removes the program, she should probably drop/cancel those
    > addresses and get new ones.
    >
    > "Better that, than what's probably headed her way."


    Yea I said the same thing. She tried to find a way to opt out of their
    program but no luck. They allow you in, but won't let you out. I told her
    to keep tabs on the spam and report anything marked bluesecurity as spam and
    report it to her ISP since she gave out her ISP-based e-mail.

    Thanks everyone. Close call for me. Not so lucky for my friend :(
     
    Kyle :o\), Apr 8, 2006
    #4
  5. Kyle :o\)

    Guest

    Kyle,

    Blue Security is a legit business. They have very reputable investor
    and a solid management team. They even got Prof. Swire, Clinton's
    administration chief privacy advisor on their board. See
    http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060308/20060308005501.html?.v=1 for more
    details.

    Blue Frog seems to be impacting spammers. Brian McWilliams, a well
    known reporter covering the spam world for several years, has recently
    reported that a leading spam sending software now complied with Blue
    Security's "do-not-spam" registry . See
    http://spamkings.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/spamware_vendor_1.html

    Because Blue Security takes a very aggressive approach to spam, some
    spammers really hate it, and do their best to harm their reputation.
    You seemed to fall victim to one of those spammers in this forum. If
    you want to see more examples, see "Spammers get mad" here
    http://community.bluesecurity.com/webx?0aeiVe.1@.3c3e88bc!discloc=.3c4e726e
    ..

    Interestingly, one of the people who answered you referred to a
    well-known Joe Job carried on blue security by spammers. In case you
    are not familiar with the term, a Joe Job is an incident of spamming
    designed to tarnish the reputation of an innocent third party.

    Blue also recently integrated its service with FireTrust's Mailwasher
    (see
    http://www.webhosting.info/news/1/b...rust-join-forces-to-fight-spam_0406069843.htm
    ). Firetrust is one of the most respected anti-spam organizations in
    the world. Just search Google for "anti-spam" and they come up ranked
    #4. Would you think they would work with anyone as shabby as the other
    posters want you to believe Blue Security is?

    One last interesting thing worth mentioning in the "answers" you got.
    Blue Security is headquartered in Delaware, not California. Therefore,
    they did not "steal" their name from anyone in California. You can look
    them us at https://sos-res.state.de.us/tin/GINameSearch.jsp

    It is enough spammers fill your mailbox with lies. You don't have to
    listen to their lies here as well.


    Regards,
    Quick Arrow.

    PS You can always remove any protected email from the registry. Login
    to the members' site of Blue Security, select your Protected Emails and
    click "Remove Email".
     
    , Apr 8, 2006
    #5
  6. Kyle :o\)

    Mike Easter Guest

    wrote:

    > Blue Security is a legit business. They have very reputable investor
    > and a solid management team.


    Being a profit motivated business doesn't mean that they should be
    trusted or that anyone should invest an email address with them.

    > Brian McWilliams, a well
    > known reporter covering the spam world for several years, has recently
    > reported that a leading spam sending software now complied with Blue
    > Security's "do-not-spam" registry .


    Brian McWilliams' article is about the bulk mailing software Send-Safe.
    Bulkmailers are used by spammers and other bulk email marketers. Some
    bulk emailers remove or listwash and some do not.

    The direct marketers would like for everyone to believe in remove
    process. Some direct marketers don't email anyone who asks to be
    removed. Some spamming direct marketers don't pay any attention to
    removes. Some spammers use remove requests to put those addresses on
    other lists and keep the addresses on some lists. Trusting direct
    marketers and cohorts of direct markers such as Blue Security is putting
    your trust in the wrong people.

    Brian McWilliams' closing words in the article are:

    "On the other hand, I doubt this integration will do much to improve
    Blue Security's standing among some leading anti-spammers. The whole
    notion of remove lists is anathema to ardent supporters of opt-in email.
    Blue Security, they might argue, is ultimately just providing a free
    list-washing service to spammers."
    http://spamkings.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/spamware_vendor_1.html

    > Blue also recently integrated its service with FireTrust's Mailwasher


    FireTrust's MW is notorious for telling lies to its users by encouraging
    abusive bogus bouncing to aid those bulkmailers who are listwashers.
    The genuine users of MW know enough to ignore the recommendations of the
    developers of MW and properly turn off the bogus bouncing feature in
    spite of the lies and abusive default configuration of MW out of the
    box.


    There are all kinds of spammers, which include listwashing spammers and
    others who do all kinds of nefarious dealmaking with lists. Blue
    Security is involving itself with the motley crowd of spammers who
    listwash, spammers who don't listwash, and spammers who buy and sell
    lists of antispammers and listwashees and spammers who spam listwashees
    as well as antispammers and non-listwashed.


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Apr 8, 2006
    #6
  7. Kyle :o\)

    Guest

    Mike,

    Those of us living in the United States do not enjoy an "opt-in email".
    As you know, the CAN-SPAM Act allows anybody to send spam as long as
    they respect "opt-out" requests. Blue automates exercising one's
    "opt-out" right. This is right and proper (and already works to some
    extent).

    If you don't like the law, then start a movement to change the law. It
    will be really good if you succeed. In the mean while, please don't
    harm the efforts of 350,000 people to use the law to stop spam.

    Regards,
    Quick Arrow.
     
    , Apr 8, 2006
    #7
  8. Kyle :o\)

    Mike Easter Guest

    wrote:

    > Blue automates exercising
    > one's "opt-out" right. This is right and proper (and already works to
    > some extent).


    It is interesting that you say that. Blue Security, or BS for short,
    believes that the spam you receive which is CANSPAM compliant is not
    actually spam.

    From the BS faq: http://www.bluesecurity.com/blue-frog/products/faq.asp

    ^1 What does Blue specifically consider to be spam?


    BS believes that Blue Frog users should accept unsolicited mail if it
    is compliant with the US CANSPAM act, so presumably they would ask their
    direct marketing friends to remove the bluefroggers from the
    noncompliant lists while moving them to CANSPAM compliant lists.

    And, the spamvertisers who are inclined to listwash or listswap or
    listmove can do so, while the spamvertisers who are not inclined to wash
    will not do so.

    So, then bluefroggers will be moved from some lists to others. The net
    effect of being a bluefrogger will be to profit BS and get more spam and
    get moved around on spamvertiser lists -- since it is spamvertisers that
    BS commiserates with and cooperates with and bargains with and
    apparently provides bluefrogger addresses to .


    ^1 All unsolicited illegal messages under the CANSPAM Act of 2003,
    including messages
    Sent to a harvested address
    Sent via a zombie
    With false or misleading header information
    With deceptive subject lines
    Without an opt-out mechanism



    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Apr 8, 2006
    #8
  9. Kyle :o\)

    Guest

    I am sorry, but why do you think Blue makes any money from spammers? If
    you read their FAQ, you know they do not charge spammers anything to be
    compliant.

    Blue plans to make money by selling a corporate membership in the "do
    not spam" registry to companies. If the registry does not work, then
    Blue has no business. Therefore, it is in Blue's best interest to
    reduce spam to people registered.

    And why do you think Blue has any friends in the spammer world? All
    spammers hate them. When a spammer gets tons "opt-out" requests from
    the Blue community, his web site is busy handling those requests. In
    the meanwhile, he is not making any money from his victims. This
    doesn't sound like a very "friendly" approach to me.

    Don't you think you should be more careful with your words? Don't you
    think making wild accusations is bad for your reputation? Perhaps Blue
    does not work. I am not sure either. But saying they are cheating their
    users and work with criminals is taking it a bit too far.

    Or perhaps what you meant to say is "The net effect of listening to
    Mike Easter will be to profit Mike Easter and get more spam -- since it
    is spamvertisers that Mike Easter commiserates with and cooperates with
    and bargains with and apparently provides addresses to"
     
    , Apr 8, 2006
    #9
  10. Kyle :o\)

    Guest

    I could be hopelessly naive, but it's working for me!

    I cynically installed Blue Frog about a month ago and I have noticed a
    sharp 90%+ drop in spam to my POP addresses since then.

    I only get 2 or 3 out of 10 or 20 before BF. I find myself thinking
    that there is something wrong. Oh no! Where is my daily spam? I feel
    the urge to press the delete key for no reason.

    Besides the spam lists, what else is there? I can not trust them to
    handle every one of my incoming business emails. If I can join a
    quarter million people to slap around a spammer, that, in itself, is a
    pleasure.

    JD
     
    , Apr 25, 2006
    #10
  11. Kyle :o\)

    Mara Guest

    On 25 Apr 2006 11:45:04 -0700, wrote:

    >I could be hopelessly naive,


    No, just a newbie. And a cluebie. Maybe. Let's see:

    Last post to this thread before you showed up was April 8;
    You show up in here now, April 25, touting Blue Frog as the bestest ever FUSSP;
    You're posting from google groups;
    Google shows you as having made a whopping total of three posts to usenet, each
    touting Blue Frog, with this nic/address, and a sum total of 34 posts under your
    actual name (if that's in fact what it is.)

    http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html
    http://www.claws-and-paws.com/fussp.html
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2375240D
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q2475240D
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?C6572640D

    Want more? I've got LOTS. So does google. :)

    "If the shill/sock fits, wear it. Blue Frog is *abuse.*"



    --
    <AB> . o O (Years from now, when the aliens are sifting through our
    fossilized remnants, they're going to come to one inescapable
    conclusion)
    <AB> . o O (The Earth was populated by dorks.)
     
    Mara, Apr 25, 2006
    #11
  12. Kyle :o\)

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2006-04-25, Mara <> wrote:
    > On 25 Apr 2006 11:45:04 -0700, wrote:
    >
    >>I could be hopelessly naive,

    >
    > No, just a newbie. And a cluebie. Maybe. Let's see:


    snip

    Henceforth let us refer to 'dead amphibians' in this context rather than
    add to the exposure of commercial products ;))

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Apr 26, 2006
    #12
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