Blu Ray and Copy Protection

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Alpha, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. Alpha

    Alpha Guest

    http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html

    Note particularly the following:

    "Under Blu-ray's plan, the public would be asked to purchase new Blu-ray
    disc players even while their current DVD players work fine. For that to
    fly, consumers must be convinced that there are clear benefits to the new
    technologies."
     
    Alpha, Aug 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. Alpha

    Tarkus Guest

    On 8/9/2005 2:56:55 PM, Alpha wrote:

    > http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html
    >
    > Note particularly the following:
    >
    > "Under Blu-ray's plan, the public would be asked to purchase new Blu-ray
    > disc players even while their current DVD players work fine. For that to
    > fly, consumers must be convinced that there are clear benefits to the new
    > technologies."


    And this is different from HD-DVD...how?

    What a shock that you need a new player to play high definition discs!
    Thanks for this earth shattering information, Alpha. That changes
    everything.
    --
    "Trying is the first step towards failure."

    Now playing: "Rage Against The Machine - Bombtrack"
     
    Tarkus, Aug 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. Alpha

    Alpha Guest

    You are stupid. The point is that the so-called hybrids are not going to
    get out the door at all. The new encryption is HARD WIRED....do you
    understand?

    "Tarkus" <> wrote in message
    news:9.com...
    > On 8/9/2005 2:56:55 PM, Alpha wrote:
    >
    >> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html
    >>
    >> Note particularly the following:
    >>
    >> "Under Blu-ray's plan, the public would be asked to purchase new Blu-ray
    >> disc players even while their current DVD players work fine. For that to
    >> fly, consumers must be convinced that there are clear benefits to the new
    >> technologies."

    >
    > And this is different from HD-DVD...how?
    >
    > What a shock that you need a new player to play high definition discs!
    > Thanks for this earth shattering information, Alpha. That changes
    > everything.
    > --
    > "Trying is the first step towards failure."
    >
    > Now playing: "Rage Against The Machine - Bombtrack"
     
    Alpha, Aug 9, 2005
    #3
  4. Alpha

    Alpha Guest

    Tarkus also ignored the following quote:

    "The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), a partnership of electronics
    manufacturers and Hollywood studios including Hewlett-Packard Co. and 20th
    Century Fox, said it plans to fight piracy by embedding an identification
    mark on movies, music and video games that can only be read by equipment
    that carry its technology."



    Who gets their technology??...expect $100 players from China??





    "Alpha" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html
    >
    > Note particularly the following:
    >
    > "Under Blu-ray's plan, the public would be asked to purchase new Blu-ray
    > disc players even while their current DVD players work fine. For that to
    > fly, consumers must be convinced that there are clear benefits to the new
    > technologies."
    >
    >
     
    Alpha, Aug 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Alpha

    Pat Guest

    Alpha wrote:
    > Tarkus also ignored the following quote:
    >
    > "The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), a partnership of electronics
    > manufacturers and Hollywood studios including Hewlett-Packard Co. and 20th
    > Century Fox, said it plans to fight piracy by embedding an identification
    > mark on movies, music and video games that can only be read by equipment
    > that carry its technology."
    >
    >
    >
    > Who gets their technology??...expect $100 players from China??


    I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be similar to the
    situation we had with "region codes." By the time any of this becomes
    mainstream and recordable media is cheap enough to justify copying, you
    will probably be able to buy equipment that plays this stuff without
    reading the identification code. The funny part is that they're going
    to spend millions of dollars trying to solve a 'problem' that has no
    solution.
     
    Pat, Aug 10, 2005
    #5
  6. Alpha

    Goro Guest

    Alpha wrote:
    > http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html


    this is a rather bizarre article. it jumps all over the place from
    sentence to sentence and it interchanges the concept of home-user
    DVDDecrypting with Large-scale bootleg DVD Pressing.

    IMO, the format that will succeed will be the one that is MOST easily
    hacked.

    -goro-
     
    Goro, Aug 10, 2005
    #6
  7. Alpha

    Goro Guest

    Alpha wrote:
    > Tarkus also ignored the following quote:
    >
    > "The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), a partnership of electronics
    > manufacturers and Hollywood studios including Hewlett-Packard Co. and 20th
    > Century Fox, said it plans to fight piracy by embedding an identification
    > mark on movies, music and video games that can only be read by equipment
    > that carry its technology."


    it's not really clear what they mean by that, owing most likely to the
    cluelessness of the writer. Is it a digital watermark so that a
    BluRayDisc image file can be tracked to the source? or is it a
    decryption key of some sort.

    the way it's written, "an id mark... can only be read by equipment that
    carry its technology" doesn't sound like a big deeal. Welll, ok, then,
    DON'T read teh id makr, just play back the movie! But obv. that's
    (likely) not what this ID mark is.

    it's really too early to get all panties-bunchy about it.

    > Who gets their technology??...expect $100 players from China??


    eventually. yes.
     
    Goro, Aug 10, 2005
    #7
  8. Alpha

    Alpha Guest

    "Goro" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Alpha wrote:
    >> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html

    >
    > this is a rather bizarre article. it jumps all over the place from
    > sentence to sentence and it interchanges the concept of home-user
    > DVDDecrypting with Large-scale bootleg DVD Pressing.
    >
    > IMO, the format that will succeed will be the one that is MOST easily
    > hacked.
    >
    > -goro-
    >


    Your points are well-taken. My guess is that this idea is to totally lock
    the disc to the player.
     
    Alpha, Aug 10, 2005
    #8
  9. Alpha

    Allan Guest

    Allan, Aug 10, 2005
    #9
  10. Alpha

    Alpha Guest

    Alpha, Aug 10, 2005
    #10
  11. Alpha

    Alpha Guest

    PS

    My point is this looks quite air-tight. You have to presume that all drives
    and all capture devices will have to incorporate the technology or they will
    not be able to deal with the disks. No doubt, HD DVD will also do something
    similar.
     
    Alpha, Aug 10, 2005
    #11
  12. Alpha

    Goro Guest

    Alpha wrote:
    > "Allan" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > http://home.businesswire.com/portal...d=news_view&newsId=20050809005624&newsLang=en
    > >
    > > More Tech information.

    >
    >
    > Revealing, indeed. Good luck, hackers <EG>


    it does (natch) sound impressive, but consider that it is a press
    release (basically).

    For instance, check out this release regarding RipGuard:
    http://dvdxcopy.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/160761

    DVDDecrypter defeated this in less than one day.

    Whatever Sony's newest DVD prot-scheme was (that was also apparently to
    be the basis of BluRay copyprot) was also defeated within a day of
    release.

    SO, while it generally SEEMS like the BigGuys(tm) have the upper hand,
    I wouldn't be so sure that it won't be cracked and fairly quickly.

    Although, if it isn't cracked within 2 weeks of release, then I'd
    expect it to hold up for quite some time.

    -goro-
     
    Goro, Aug 10, 2005
    #12
  13. Alpha

    Alpha Guest

    Good points. However, because this is chip-based and the codes are embedded
    by hardwire into the disc (not part of the data stream), this is likely to
    hold up, IMO. Another important issue is the fluid ability to change codes
    over time.
     
    Alpha, Aug 10, 2005
    #13
  14. Alpha

    Allan Guest

    On 9 Aug 2005 20:50:46 -0700, "Goro" <> wrote:

    >
    >Although, if it isn't cracked within 2 weeks of release, then I'd
    >expect it to hold up for quite some time.
    >
    >-goro-



    OT: Has Direct TV been hacked since the move to the new card
    system...? used to all the rage up here... and until the new Card came
    around.






    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
    -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
     
    Allan, Aug 10, 2005
    #14
  15. On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 14:56:55 -0700, "Alpha" <> wrote:

    >http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html
    >
    >Note particularly the following:
    >
    >"Under Blu-ray's plan, the public would be asked to purchase new Blu-ray
    >disc players even while their current DVD players work fine. For that to
    >fly, consumers must be convinced that there are clear benefits to the new
    >technologies."


    I think the most telling quote is:
    "Frankly, most people don't care."
     
    Kimba W. Lion, Aug 10, 2005
    #15
  16. On 9 Aug 2005 16:08:52 -0700, "Goro" <> wrote:

    >it interchanges the concept of home-user
    >DVDDecrypting with Large-scale bootleg DVD Pressing.


    That's exactly the mindset the industry wants to convey. That's how they
    go about getting more money out of Congress.
     
    Kimba W. Lion, Aug 10, 2005
    #16
  17. Alpha

    Jeff Guest

    "Alpha" <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    > "Goro" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> Alpha wrote:
    >>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html

    >>
    >> this is a rather bizarre article. it jumps all over the place from
    >> sentence to sentence and it interchanges the concept of home-user
    >> DVDDecrypting with Large-scale bootleg DVD Pressing.
    >>
    >> IMO, the format that will succeed will be the one that is MOST easily
    >> hacked.
    >>
    >> -goro-
    >>

    >
    > Your points are well-taken. My guess is that this idea is to totally
    > lock the disc to the player.
    >
    >
    >

    A disc locked to a single player would eliminate the rental business, a
    sizable chunk of their income. If that's the case, expect higher prices
    to compensate.
     
    Jeff, Aug 10, 2005
    #17
  18. Alpha

    Goro Guest

    Alpha wrote:
    > "Goro" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > Alpha wrote:
    > >> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html

    > >
    > > this is a rather bizarre article. it jumps all over the place from
    > > sentence to sentence and it interchanges the concept of home-user
    > > DVDDecrypting with Large-scale bootleg DVD Pressing.
    > >
    > > IMO, the format that will succeed will be the one that is MOST easily
    > > hacked.
    > >
    > > -goro-
    > >

    >
    > Your points are well-taken. My guess is that this idea is to totally lock
    > the disc to the player.


    that sounds like DivX, the Circuit City incarnation...! :)

    -goro-
     
    Goro, Aug 11, 2005
    #18
  19. Alpha

    Allan Guest

    On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:15:57 GMT, Jeff <> wrote:

    >A disc locked to a single player would eliminate the rental business,


    Sort of like a DVD only being able to play in a DVD player?

    Yeah... DVD kill VHS.






    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
    -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
     
    Allan, Aug 11, 2005
    #19
  20. Alpha

    Jeff Guest

    Allan <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:15:57 GMT, Jeff <> wrote:
    >
    >>A disc locked to a single player would eliminate the rental business,

    >
    > Sort of like a DVD only being able to play in a DVD player?
    >
    > Yeah... DVD kill VHS.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    > because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be
    > indistinguishable from -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing
    > infinite amounts of free time." - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_


    More like when you play a disc in _your_ player it becomes unplayable in
    anybody else's player. The article hinted at internet connectivity for
    the players so they can track what you play and control the rights to
    play a particular disc.
     
    Jeff, Aug 12, 2005
    #20
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