Block those evil Firefox users!

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 19, 2007.

  1. They're just a bunch of Commies
    <http://techdirt.com/articles/20070817/143014.shtml>.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 19, 2007
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <fa813h$26c$>,
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    > They're just a bunch of Commies
    > <http://techdirt.com/articles/20070817/143014.shtml>.


    Huh, what has this to do with communism ?

    Apart from that, we have users who believe they have the freedom to use
    what ever software they choose to use, fair enough.

    So why is it wrong for web hosts to choose which customers can visit
    their site ? Seems to me that there is no difference, freedom of choice
    on both sides.
     
    whoisthis, Aug 19, 2007
    #2
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  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Gordon Guest

    On 2007-08-19, whoisthis <> wrote:
    > In article <fa813h$26c$>,
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >> They're just a bunch of Commies
    >> <http://techdirt.com/articles/20070817/143014.shtml>.

    >
    > Huh, what has this to do with communism ?
    >

    Control, power and no doubt money.


    > Apart from that, we have users who believe they have the freedom to use
    > what ever software they choose to use, fair enough.
    >
    > So why is it wrong for web hosts to choose which customers can visit
    > their site ? Seems to me that there is no difference, freedom of choice
    > on both sides.


    Indeed.

    If I have to approach a website with a certain kind of browser, then I shall
    turn away and be glad to be free.
     
    Gordon, Aug 19, 2007
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    thingy Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <fa813h$26c$>,
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >> They're just a bunch of Commies
    >> <http://techdirt.com/articles/20070817/143014.shtml>.

    >
    > Huh, what has this to do with communism ?
    >
    > Apart from that, we have users who believe they have the freedom to use
    > what ever software they choose to use, fair enough.
    >
    > So why is it wrong for web hosts to choose which customers can visit
    > their site ? Seems to me that there is no difference, freedom of choice
    > on both sides.


    yep....stupidity....but if they want to shoot themselves in the head, I
    agree it is their business...I'd just go elsewhere....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Aug 19, 2007
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    Gordon <> wrote:

    > On 2007-08-19, whoisthis <> wrote:
    > > In article <fa813h$26c$>,
    > > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
    > >
    > >> They're just a bunch of Commies
    > >> <http://techdirt.com/articles/20070817/143014.shtml>.

    > >
    > > Huh, what has this to do with communism ?
    > >

    > Control, power and no doubt money.
    >
    >
    > > Apart from that, we have users who believe they have the freedom to use
    > > what ever software they choose to use, fair enough.
    > >
    > > So why is it wrong for web hosts to choose which customers can visit
    > > their site ? Seems to me that there is no difference, freedom of choice
    > > on both sides.

    >
    > Indeed.
    >
    > If I have to approach a website with a certain kind of browser, then I shall
    > turn away and be glad to be free.


    exactly. Those companies who make their websites exclude my browser
    simply loose my business. Likewise those site that use pop-ups and other
    annoying revenue gatherers also loose my business. However they are
    entitled to do exactly that, it is after all THEIR website, not mine.
     
    whoisthis, Aug 19, 2007
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    thingy Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <fa813h$26c$>,
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >> They're just a bunch of Commies
    >> <http://techdirt.com/articles/20070817/143014.shtml>.

    >
    > Huh, what has this to do with communism ?


    Many of the conservative right and in particular America consider (take
    Forbes as a classic rag) Linux and OSS as destroying their share value.
    It would seem that having shares in an "evil" monopoly like MS is OK as
    long as you profit and others lose.....hence Firefox is "communism" its
    free and its users tend to spend less....the trouble with this line of
    thought is someone appears to have taken web hit statistics and either
    applied faulty or blinkered logic to the data....

    Their logic would seem to assume that if I switch back to IE7 I am more
    likely to click on adds and spend money...that is a huge
    assumption....reading it another way you could assume Firefox users are
    more tech savvy and discerning purchasers of goods (ie the dont get
    suckered as easily with crap)...so it maybe a question of offering
    better "value" ie say if the web server detects its a Firefox user then
    offer a better "deal" in the advert....

    but then that would involve thinking....and these guys didnt get that
    far in the first place....

    > Apart from that, we have users who believe they have the freedom to use
    > what ever software they choose to use, fair enough.
    >
    > So why is it wrong for web hosts to choose which customers can visit
    > their site ? Seems to me that there is no difference, freedom of choice
    > on both sides.


    regards

    thing
     
    thingy, Aug 19, 2007
    #6
  7. In article <>, Gordon <> wrote:
    (snip)
    >> Apart from that, we have users who believe they have the freedom to use
    >> what ever software they choose to use, fair enough.
    >>
    >> So why is it wrong for web hosts to choose which customers can visit
    >> their site ? Seems to me that there is no difference, freedom of choice
    >> on both sides.

    >
    >Indeed.
    >
    >If I have to approach a website with a certain kind of browser, then I shall
    >turn away and be glad to be free.


    ... add one step. Report their site as broken before ignoring them. :)
    If they get enuff reports, they might reconsider :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Aug 20, 2007
    #7
  8. In article <>, thingy <> wrote:
    (snip)
    >Their logic would seem to assume that if I switch back to IE7 I am more
    >likely to click on adds and spend money...that is a huge
    >assumption....reading it another way you could assume Firefox users are
    >more tech savvy and discerning purchasers of goods (ie the dont get
    >suckered as easily with crap)...so it maybe a question of offering
    >better "value" ie say if the web server detects its a Firefox user then
    >offer a better "deal" in the advert....
    >
    >but then that would involve thinking....and these guys didnt get that
    >far in the first place....


    ... and what about the browsers that simply lie about what they are ? :)
    Surely that would skew the stats ?
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Aug 20, 2007
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    BrianM Guest

    On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:02:00 +1200, whoisthis wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > Gordon <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 2007-08-19, whoisthis <> wrote:
    >> > In article <fa813h$26c$>,
    >> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> They're just a bunch of Commies
    >> >> <http://techdirt.com/articles/20070817/143014.shtml>.
    >> >
    >> > Huh, what has this to do with communism ?
    >> >

    >> Control, power and no doubt money.
    >>
    >>
    >> > Apart from that, we have users who believe they have the freedom to use
    >> > what ever software they choose to use, fair enough.
    >> >
    >> > So why is it wrong for web hosts to choose which customers can visit
    >> > their site ? Seems to me that there is no difference, freedom of choice
    >> > on both sides.

    >>
    >> Indeed.
    >>
    >> If I have to approach a website with a certain kind of browser, then I shall
    >> turn away and be glad to be free.

    >
    > exactly. Those companies who make their websites exclude my browser
    > simply loose my business. Likewise those site that use pop-ups and other
    > annoying revenue gatherers also loose my business. However they are
    > entitled to do exactly that, it is after all THEIR website, not mine.


    It seems that some companies are moving from "This site is best viewed
    with ....." to "This site can only be viewed with ..............."
    In a tit-for-tat world, I could imagine those that deplore this kind
    of discrimination might display "This site cannot be viewed with
    .........."
    If a business model is to reach the widest audience as
    possible, then they are going in the wrong direction as browsers like
    Firefox gain users.

    cheers
    brianM
     
    BrianM, Aug 20, 2007
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Donchano Guest

    On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:01:07 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> magnanimously proffered:

    >They're just a bunch of Commies
    ><http://techdirt.com/articles/20070817/143014.shtml>.


    I have a friend who used to be a web designer. He built his clients'
    web sites to be compatible with IE, but not with Firefox because he
    said Firefox would never be popular enough to justify it.

    I'd have him on about this - especially when the Firefox browser users
    visiting my website had grown from 2% to 7% all the way up to the
    point where a quarter of all visitors were using Firefox.

    But he wouldn't budge ... which is why he's a former webdesigner.
     
    Donchano, Aug 20, 2007
    #10
  11. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    thingy Guest

    Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    > In article <>, thingy <> wrote:
    > (snip)
    >> Their logic would seem to assume that if I switch back to IE7 I am more
    >> likely to click on adds and spend money...that is a huge
    >> assumption....reading it another way you could assume Firefox users are
    >> more tech savvy and discerning purchasers of goods (ie the dont get
    >> suckered as easily with crap)...so it maybe a question of offering
    >> better "value" ie say if the web server detects its a Firefox user then
    >> offer a better "deal" in the advert....
    >>
    >> but then that would involve thinking....and these guys didnt get that
    >> far in the first place....

    >
    > .. and what about the browsers that simply lie about what they are ? :)
    > Surely that would skew the stats ?
    >


    I oont think many ppl do that though...

    Otherwise, yes....so a way around is tell
    Firefox/Opera/Safari/Mozilla/etc/etc to pretend to be IE7....of course I
    assume these morons would then prosecute siting the DMCA as "us" users
    were actively bypassing their security features....

    regards

    thing
     
    thingy, Aug 20, 2007
    #11
  12. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    BrianM Guest

    On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:05:44 +1200, thingy wrote:

    > Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    >> In article <>, thingy <> wrote:
    >> (snip)
    >>> Their logic would seem to assume that if I switch back to IE7 I am more
    >>> likely to click on adds and spend money...that is a huge
    >>> assumption....reading it another way you could assume Firefox users are
    >>> more tech savvy and discerning purchasers of goods (ie the dont get
    >>> suckered as easily with crap)...so it maybe a question of offering
    >>> better "value" ie say if the web server detects its a Firefox user then
    >>> offer a better "deal" in the advert....
    >>>
    >>> but then that would involve thinking....and these guys didnt get that
    >>> far in the first place....

    >>
    >> .. and what about the browsers that simply lie about what they are ? :)
    >> Surely that would skew the stats ?
    >>

    >
    > I oont think many ppl do that though...
    >
    > Otherwise, yes....so a way around is tell
    > Firefox/Opera/Safari/Mozilla/etc/etc to pretend to be IE7....of course I
    > assume these morons would then prosecute siting the DMCA as "us" users
    > were actively bypassing their security features....
    >
    > regards
    >
    > thing


    Hi thing,
    That's just a bandaid and doesn't solve the problem.
    I recently had a verbal punchup with a credit union about this and the
    response was "Our site is for 99% of our customers using I.E. We
    don't support your browser, so if you don't like it, either get I.E.
    or tough luck" (they actually published my email in their monthly mag,
    probably as a warning to other "rebels"). I've since closed that account
    and told them why. My policy when coming across this kind of nonsense is
    to find a contact address and tell them that they may have what I'm
    interested in purchasing but I won't put up with their discrimination,
    their lack of internet spirit/protocol, non-compliant HTML (check it out
    first with W3C validation service).
    I can't see anything changing until there is more balance in browsers.


    cheers
    brianM
     
    BrianM, Aug 20, 2007
    #12
  13. In message <>, BrianM wrote:

    > I recently had a verbal punchup with a credit union about this and the
    > response was "Our site is for 99% of our customers using I.E. We
    > don't support your browser, so if you don't like it, either get I.E.
    > or tough luck" (they actually published my email in their monthly mag,
    > probably as a warning to other "rebels"). I've since closed that account
    > and told them why.


    Well, after they've been hit on the head with a few more irate customers
    leaving for the same reason you did, I think they'll get the idea. If they
    don't go out of business first...
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 21, 2007
    #13
  14. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <fae5f5$1ji$>,
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    > In message <>, BrianM wrote:
    >
    > > I recently had a verbal punchup with a credit union about this and the
    > > response was "Our site is for 99% of our customers using I.E. We
    > > don't support your browser, so if you don't like it, either get I.E.
    > > or tough luck" (they actually published my email in their monthly mag,
    > > probably as a warning to other "rebels"). I've since closed that account
    > > and told them why.

    >
    > Well, after they've been hit on the head with a few more irate customers
    > leaving for the same reason you did, I think they'll get the idea. If they
    > don't go out of business first...


    LOL, a couple of customers leave...yeah right, like that will hurt the
    bank. Cutomers come and go all of the time for a range of reasons.
     
    whoisthis, Aug 21, 2007
    #14
  15. In message <>, whoisthis wrote:

    > In article <fae5f5$1ji$>,
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >> In message <>, BrianM wrote:
    >>
    >> > I recently had a verbal punchup with a credit union about this and the
    >> > response was "Our site is for 99% of our customers using I.E. We
    >> > don't support your browser, so if you don't like it, either get I.E.
    >> > or tough luck" (they actually published my email in their monthly mag,
    >> > probably as a warning to other "rebels"). I've since closed that
    >> > account and told them why.

    >>
    >> Well, after they've been hit on the head with a few more irate customers
    >> leaving for the same reason you did, I think they'll get the idea. If
    >> they don't go out of business first...

    >
    > LOL, a couple of customers leave...yeah right, like that will hurt the
    > bank. Cutomers come and go all of the time for a range of reasons.


    And if the company can do something about those reasons, and persuade the
    customers to stay, then they get a one-up on the competition. That's how
    the market works.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 22, 2007
    #15
  16. In message <fa813h$26c$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > They're just a bunch of Commies
    > <http://techdirt.com/articles/20070817/143014.shtml>.


    Fill the guy's webserver log up with hits like this:

    wget --user-agent='i am fire-foxy' http://jacklewis.net/weblog/ -O -

    or even

    wget --user-agent='AdBlock Plus Strikes Again' http://jacklewis.net/weblog/ -O /dev/null
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 24, 2007
    #16
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