Black & White

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Winny, Jul 2, 2004.

  1. Winny

    Winny Guest

    Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
    My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
    tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black and
    white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
    white with PC software?
    I haven't had any photos (B&W) printed professionally yet (only at home on
    my not-so-great printer) and would like some advice on this, as well as any
    comments on my choice of camera. The only other thing I have found is, as
    with thread just found, that shutter delay (compared to SLR) is something I
    will need to adjust to. Even when using the "half depression of the shutter
    technique" the camera takes that little bit longer to shoot.

    Winny
     
    Winny, Jul 2, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "Winny" <> wrote in message
    news:40e5751a$0$25464$...
    > Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
    > My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
    > tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black

    and
    > white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
    > white with PC software?
    > I haven't had any photos (B&W) printed professionally yet (only at home on
    > my not-so-great printer) and would like some advice on this, as well as

    any
    > comments on my choice of camera. The only other thing I have found is,

    as
    > with thread just found, that shutter delay (compared to SLR) is something

    I
    > will need to adjust to. Even when using the "half depression of the

    shutter
    > technique" the camera takes that little bit longer to shoot.
    >
    > Winny


    There are various algorithms to convert color images to gray scale (a better
    name for B&W). I don't know what algorithm my camera uses, and I couldn't
    change it if I did know. My editing software (Paint Shop Pro) lets me set
    the algorithm and options, and go back to the original image if I don't like
    the result, so I can try a different way. It is extra effort, but to me it
    is worthwhile doing.
     
    Marvin Margoshes, Jul 2, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Winny

    Guest

    Winny <> wrote:
    > Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
    > My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
    > tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black and
    > white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
    > white with PC software?


    That's entirely up to you to decide. Do some test shots and see how they
    turn out.
     
    , Jul 2, 2004
    #3
  4. wrote:

    > Winny <> wrote:
    >
    >>Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
    >>My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
    >>tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black and
    >>white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
    >>white with PC software?

    >
    >
    > That's entirely up to you to decide. Do some test shots and see how they
    > turn out.
    >

    The question is emminently reasonable, and I'd like to know the
    experiences of others, or theory, at the least as to which should
    produce the better image.

    I would think that shooting in RAW mode and converting to B+W in
    Photoshop would yield the best results, but that's just a hypothesis and
    the OP probably doesn't have that option.


    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 3, 2004
    #4
  5. Winny

    Skip M Guest

    "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    news:bdmFc.15733$IQ4.13941@attbi_s02...
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Winny <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
    > >>My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can

    anyone
    > >>tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black

    and
    > >>white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
    > >>white with PC software?

    > >
    > >
    > > That's entirely up to you to decide. Do some test shots and see how they
    > > turn out.
    > >

    > The question is emminently reasonable, and I'd like to know the
    > experiences of others, or theory, at the least as to which should
    > produce the better image.
    >
    > I would think that shooting in RAW mode and converting to B+W in
    > Photoshop would yield the best results, but that's just a hypothesis and
    > the OP probably doesn't have that option.
    >
    >
    > --
    > John McWilliams


    Having tried the greyscale option on my wife's E-10, I'd have to say you are
    right. We both get better results by digital fiddling in P-shop than with
    greyscale direct from the camera.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Jul 3, 2004
    #5
  6. Winny

    Paul H. Guest

    "Winny" <> wrote in message
    news:40e5751a$0$25464$...
    > Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
    > My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
    > tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black

    and
    > white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
    > white with PC software?
    > I haven't had any photos (B&W) printed professionally yet (only at home on
    > my not-so-great printer) and would like some advice on this, as well as

    any
    > comments on my choice of camera. The only other thing I have found is,

    as
    > with thread just found, that shutter delay (compared to SLR) is something

    I
    > will need to adjust to. Even when using the "half depression of the

    shutter
    > technique" the camera takes that little bit longer to shoot.


    It is much, much, much better to shoot in color, then convert to b&w from
    within a program such as Photoshop. Most in-camera b&w modes simply
    de-saturate the color image, so what you usually wind up with is a rather
    aenemic-looking gray luminance map AND you have lost all color information
    which might have been used to save the picture.

    Worst-case example and solution: suppose you shoot a reddish flower against
    a greenish background and the reds and greens have roughly the same
    luminance. The camera's b&w mode will give you a picture in which the red
    flower almost disappears into the background, since both colors will be
    assigned the same gray value. If you work with the color image in
    Photoshop, though, you can manipulate the individual color channels in such
    a way as to drastically increase the contrast between flower and background.
    ('Way back when I was shooting B&W film, I would have metered off both
    flower and background and seeing they were roughly at the same brightness, I
    would have slapped a red filter on my lens to do the same thing I described
    doing in Photoshop.)

    There are even simpler ways than direct color channel manipulation to
    perform effective color-to-B&W conversions: See
    http://www.adobe.com/tips/phs8colorbw/main.html for a few examples and you
    will be absolutely amazed at the difference between a well-executed
    color-to-B&W conversion and a simple de-saturation. In addition, by using
    Photoshop to make B&W's, you don't have to lug around a bag full of colored
    filters for B&W shots.
     
    Paul H., Jul 3, 2004
    #6
  7. In article <40e5751a$0$25464$>,
    says...
    > Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
    > My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
    > tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black and
    > white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
    > white with PC software?
    > I haven't had any photos (B&W) printed professionally yet (only at home on
    > my not-so-great printer) and would like some advice on this, as well as any
    > comments on my choice of camera. The only other thing I have found is, as
    > with thread just found, that shutter delay (compared to SLR) is something I
    > will need to adjust to. Even when using the "half depression of the shutter
    > technique" the camera takes that little bit longer to shoot.
    >
    > Winny
    >
    >
    >

    If you leave it in color mode you'll be able to simulate color filters
    used in black and white when editing.
    I have a discussion of this technique on my web site. Follow the tips
    link on my web page and look for the tip about "obsolete" b&w film.

    --
    Robert D Feinman
    Landscapes, Cityscapes and Panoramic Photographs
    http://robertdfeinman.com
    mail:
     
    Robert Feinman, Jul 3, 2004
    #7
  8. Skip M wrote:

    > "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    > news:bdmFc.15733$IQ4.13941@attbi_s02...
    >
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Winny <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
    >>>>My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can

    >
    > anyone
    >
    >>>>tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black

    >
    > and
    >
    >>>>white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
    >>>>white with PC software?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>That's entirely up to you to decide. Do some test shots and see how they
    >>>turn out.
    >>>

    >>
    >>The question is emminently reasonable, and I'd like to know the
    >>experiences of others, or theory, at the least as to which should
    >>produce the better image.
    >>
    >>I would think that shooting in RAW mode and converting to B+W in
    >>Photoshop would yield the best results, but that's just a hypothesis and
    >>the OP probably doesn't have that option.
    >>
    >>
    >>--
    >>John McWilliams

    >
    >
    > Having tried the greyscale option on my wife's E-10, I'd have to say you are
    > right. We both get better results by digital fiddling in P-shop than with
    > greyscale direct from the camera.
    >

    Thanks, and Paul's and Robert's explanations fill in why this is so.
    Someone told me *definitively* (!) that it was better to shoot B+W in
    the camera, but intuitively I doubted that. Now I am glad to know the
    difference that I may find down the road as per the examples given.

    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 3, 2004
    #8
  9. Winny

    Skip M Guest

    "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    news:t2EFc.18357$%_6.2103@attbi_s01...
    > Skip M wrote:
    >
    > > "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    > > news:bdmFc.15733$IQ4.13941@attbi_s02...
    > >
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>The question is emminently reasonable, and I'd like to know the
    > >>experiences of others, or theory, at the least as to which should
    > >>produce the better image.
    > >>
    > >>I would think that shooting in RAW mode and converting to B+W in
    > >>Photoshop would yield the best results, but that's just a hypothesis and
    > >>the OP probably doesn't have that option.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>--
    > >>John McWilliams

    > >
    > >
    > > Having tried the greyscale option on my wife's E-10, I'd have to say you

    are
    > > right. We both get better results by digital fiddling in P-shop than

    with
    > > greyscale direct from the camera.
    > >

    > Thanks, and Paul's and Robert's explanations fill in why this is so.
    > Someone told me *definitively* (!) that it was better to shoot B+W in
    > the camera, but intuitively I doubted that. Now I am glad to know the
    > difference that I may find down the road as per the examples given.
    >
    > --
    > John McWilliams


    One of the things I've found effective is to bump the red channel up before
    desaturating, and using the "saturation" slider in Hue/Saturation to desat
    the image rather than merely hitting "greyscale" or "desaturate."

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Jul 4, 2004
    #9
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. L Mehl
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    5,221
    L Mehl
    Sep 28, 2003
  2. jeff liss
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    507
    Andrew
    Sep 5, 2003
  3. Stubby
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    972
    Stubby
    Aug 18, 2006
  4. Steve Cutchen

    Custom White Balance: Gray Card or White Card?

    Steve Cutchen, Oct 21, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    31
    Views:
    1,617
  5. Peabody
    Replies:
    38
    Views:
    1,359
    PeterN
    Nov 20, 2011
Loading...

Share This Page