"Black Sunday" Nudity? and no trailer!!

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Michael Rogers, Jan 8, 2004.

  1. I just got the 1976 "Black Sunday" (not the Mario Bava horror film, the
    Paramount picture produced by Robert Evens). First of all, Damn
    Paramount for not even putting on a theatrical trailer.

    This shit from them is getting tiresome. How much effort does it take to
    dig out a friggin theatrical trailer? "Targets" does not have the
    theatrical trailer even though the short Peter Bogdonovich retrospective
    has scenes from the very trailer they refuse to put on in full.
    "Rosemary's Baby", "Popeye", "Saturday Night Fever", "Better Off Dead"
    and more have no theatrical trailers on them.

    Theatrical trailers for older movies are something I really enjoy having
    to see how the film was originally advertised and for posterity. If the
    DVD has no other extras, a trailer would at least be enough. I hope I
    can find an effective way to complain to Paramount about this.

    Now, concerning "Black Sunday" I've heard a couple people on Amazon and
    IMDB comment on how there was originally a nude scene with Marthe Keller
    when she's confronted in the shower by Robert Shaw. And that all video
    versions cut the scene (or rather convert it to angles where no nudity
    is shown).

    They point out that there are stills that show more nudity that was in
    the actual film. That means nothing though. I've seen full nude stills
    of Christina Rains from The Sentinal and in the actual movie itself, her
    nudity is cut down to almost nothing. It all depends on how they want to
    edit it.

    Now, I have never seen BS in the theater (too young to have seen it) but
    does anyone remember that there is more then there is on the present DVD
    version or are these people building the extra nudity in thier own
    memories?

    Mike
     
    Michael Rogers, Jan 8, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Michael Rogers

    Murder Guest

    Michael Rogers <> wrote in news:3FFCAF33.BE891485
    @rochester.rr.com:

    > I just got the 1976 "Black Sunday" (not the Mario Bava horror film, the
    > Paramount picture produced by Robert Evens). First of all, Damn
    > Paramount for not even putting on a theatrical trailer.



    Well, I picked up Alien and Aliens last night, and was appalled to find
    that neither included trailers (aside from the AVP trailer). I guess they
    must have put those on the ninth disc, huh? Kind of bummed me out, even
    though the discs are, overall, breathtakingly cool.


    The Castle Monster: http://www.processionofthedamned.com/diablo.htm
     
    Murder, Jan 8, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising


  3. > > I just got the 1976 "Black Sunday" (not the Mario Bava horror film, the
    > > Paramount picture produced by Robert Evens). First of all, Damn
    > > Paramount for not even putting on a theatrical trailer.

    >
    > Well, I picked up Alien and Aliens last night, and was appalled to find
    > that neither included trailers (aside from the AVP trailer). I guess they
    > must have put those on the ninth disc, huh? Kind of bummed me out, even
    > though the discs are, overall, breathtakingly cool.


    Yup, they are on the ninth disc of the quadrilogy. They even put on a
    teaser trailer for Alien that I had never seen before.

    Mike
     
    Michael Rogers, Jan 8, 2004
    #3
  4. Michael Rogers

    CBusch6651 Guest

    >I've heard a couple people on Amazon and
    >IMDB comment on how there was originally a nude scene with Marthe Keller
    >when she's confronted in the shower by Robert Shaw. And that all video
    >versions cut the scene (or rather convert it to angles where no nudity
    >is shown).
    >
    >They point out that there are stills that show more nudity that was in
    >the actual film. That means nothing though. I've seen full nude stills
    >of Christina Rains from The Sentinal and in the actual movie itself, her
    >nudity is cut down to almost nothing. It all depends on how they want to
    >edit it.
    >
    >Now, I have never seen BS in the theater (too young to have seen it) but
    >does anyone remember that there is more then there is on the present DVD
    >version or are these people building the extra nudity in thier own
    >memories?
    >


    I remember it clearly from the original theatrical release and there was no
    more nudity shown at that time. The shower scene is what you would call a
    modesty shot. You can tell that she is nude, but you don't see her nudity.
     
    CBusch6651, Jan 8, 2004
    #4
  5. Michael Rogers

    Meng Guest


    >> I've heard a couple people on Amazon and
    >> IMDB comment on how there was originally a nude scene with Marthe Keller
    >> when she's confronted in the shower by Robert Shaw. And that all video
    >> versions cut the scene (or rather convert it to angles where no nudity
    >> is shown).
    >>
    >> They point out that there are stills that show more nudity that was in
    >> the actual film. That means nothing though. I've seen full nude stills
    >> of Christina Rains from The Sentinal and in the actual movie itself, her
    >> nudity is cut down to almost nothing. It all depends on how they want to
    >> edit it.
    >>
    >> Now, I have never seen BS in the theater (too young to have seen it) but
    >> does anyone remember that there is more then there is on the present DVD
    >> version or are these people building the extra nudity in thier own
    >> memories?
    >>

    >
    > I remember it clearly from the original theatrical release and there was no
    > more nudity shown at that time. The shower scene is what you would call a
    > modesty shot. You can tell that she is nude, but you don't see her nudity.


    Well I can't claim to remember it clearly but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a
    modesty shot. Three possible explanations:
    1. I saw it in the UK and we got a different version;
    2. I'm losing memory cells faster than I thought;
    3. I've been slipping between alternate universes or timelines. Again.
     
    Meng, Jan 8, 2004
    #5
  6. Michael Rogers

    Lithurge Guest

    Meng <> wrote in
    news:BC230374.AFE1C%:


    >
    > Well I can't claim to remember it clearly but I'm pretty
    > sure it wasn't a modesty shot. Three possible explanations:
    > 1. I saw it in the UK and we got a different version;
    > 2. I'm losing memory cells faster than I thought;
    > 3. I've been slipping between alternate universes or
    > timelines. Again.
    >

    It's possible the cut was different, nudity as opposed to
    violence seems to have been more acceptable outside the US,
    and this looks to have been at least an Italian co-production
    ..

    Pick up the (UK) R2 Witchfinder General which has the
    international violence put back in and you'll see what I
    mean. We were allowed to see breasts flopping about all over
    the place, but heaven forbid a woman screaming for more than
    a couple of seconds, or somebody sticking a pointy metal
    instrument into somebody's back.
     
    Lithurge, Jan 8, 2004
    #6
  7. Michael Rogers

    ML-78 Guest

    > Pick up the (UK) R2 Witchfinder General which has the
    > international violence put back in and you'll see what I
    > mean. We were allowed to see breasts flopping about all over
    > the place, but heaven forbid a woman screaming for more than
    > a couple of seconds, or somebody sticking a pointy metal
    > instrument into somebody's back.


    Well, at least that kind of censorship makes more sense than when it's the other
    way around (allowing violent and gory scenes but deleting anything that hints at
    nudity or sex).


    ML-78
     
    ML-78, Jan 8, 2004
    #7
  8. Michael Rogers

    Lithurge Guest

    "ML-78" <> wrote in
    news:btjoab$13nq$:

    >> Pick up the (UK) R2 Witchfinder General which has the
    >> international violence put back in and you'll see what I
    >> mean. We were allowed to see breasts flopping about all
    >> over the place, but heaven forbid a woman screaming for
    >> more than a couple of seconds, or somebody sticking a
    >> pointy metal instrument into somebody's back.

    >
    > Well, at least that kind of censorship makes more sense
    > than when it's the other way around (allowing violent and
    > gory scenes but deleting anything that hints at nudity or
    > sex).
    >
    >
    > ML-78
    >
    >
    >


    As far as any form of censorship goes, yes it does. But and I
    think it safe to post a spoiler, but just in case

    Spoiler space
















    it gets to the end, the Witchfinder and his accomplice have
    been killed, with the 'hero' chopping at him with an axe
    several times, just before the hero's friend shoots him. The
    'heroin' is lying on the floor screaming, and this goes on
    for several seconds, but for some reason the BBFC cut about a
    second off of it. (You can tell because the quality of the
    restored scenes is poorer). What is the point of that?
     
    Lithurge, Jan 8, 2004
    #8
  9. In article <BC230374.AFE1C%>, Meng <> wrote:
    >
    >>> I've heard a couple people on Amazon and
    >>> IMDB comment on how there was originally a nude scene with Marthe Keller
    >>> when she's confronted in the shower by Robert Shaw. And that all video
    >>> versions cut the scene (or rather convert it to angles where no nudity
    >>> is shown).
    >>>
    >>> They point out that there are stills that show more nudity that was in
    >>> the actual film. That means nothing though. I've seen full nude stills
    >>> of Christina Rains from The Sentinal and in the actual movie itself, her
    >>> nudity is cut down to almost nothing. It all depends on how they want to
    >>> edit it.
    >>>
    >>> Now, I have never seen BS in the theater (too young to have seen it) but
    >>> does anyone remember that there is more then there is on the present DVD
    >>> version or are these people building the extra nudity in thier own
    >>> memories?
    >>>

    >>
    >> I remember it clearly from the original theatrical release and there was no
    >> more nudity shown at that time. The shower scene is what you would call a
    >> modesty shot. You can tell that she is nude, but you don't see her nudity.

    >
    >Well I can't claim to remember it clearly but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a
    >modesty shot. Three possible explanations:
    >1. I saw it in the UK and we got a different version;
    >2. I'm losing memory cells faster than I thought;
    >3. I've been slipping between alternate universes or timelines. Again.
    >


    Sometimes a movie which is fullframe on video will show more than the
    letterboxed version does. Terminator 3's full screen version shows more of
    Loken. "The Gift" has rear nudity from Katie Holmes in full frame. "Coyote
    Ugly" shows more of Piper Perabo.

    Perhaps that is the culprit here. Black Sunday is letterboxed, and her
    nudity is out of the frame.
    --
    In memoriam Paul Owens and Tug McGraw of your World Champion
    1980 Philadelphia Phillies. "Ya Gotta Believe."
     
    Michael Alan Chary, Jan 9, 2004
    #9
  10. Michael Rogers

    CBusch6651 Guest

    >Perhaps that is the culprit here. Black Sunday is letterboxed, and her
    >nudity is out of the frame.
    >--


    Perhaps in a full-frame video release this is true. But my point is that the
    original US theatrical release did not show nudity. It stood out in my mind at
    the time because most R-rated movies in that period did include some nudity and
    I was surprised at the modesty shot.
     
    CBusch6651, Jan 10, 2004
    #10
  11. Black Sunday is 2.35 to 1 anamorphic (as opposed to soft matted flat)
    which makes this theory impossible.

    I'm pretty sure that at least in the US version, it was the modesty
    shot. It's all I've ever seen even way back when when I first saw the
    movie on pan and scan CED Selectavision disc.

    Then I thought it was funny too that the still photo on the back cover
    of Marthe Keller covering her chest showed more then the actual movie.

    I'll bet there might be a European version floating around somewhere
    that shows more.

    Mike



    CBusch6651 wrote:
    >
    > >Perhaps that is the culprit here. Black Sunday is letterboxed, and her
    > >nudity is out of the frame.
    > >--

    >
    > Perhaps in a full-frame video release this is true. But my point is that the
    > original US theatrical release did not show nudity. It stood out in my mind at
    > the time because most R-rated movies in that period did include some nudity and
    > I was surprised at the modesty shot.
     
    Michael Rogers, Jan 10, 2004
    #11
  12. Michael Rogers

    Jay Stewart Guest

    "Michael Rogers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Black Sunday is 2.35 to 1 anamorphic (as opposed to soft matted flat)
    > which makes this theory impossible.
    >
    > I'm pretty sure that at least in the US version, it was the modesty
    > shot. It's all I've ever seen even way back when when I first saw the
    > movie on pan and scan CED Selectavision disc.
    >
    > Then I thought it was funny too that the still photo on the back cover
    > of Marthe Keller covering her chest showed more then the actual movie.
    >
    > I'll bet there might be a European version floating around somewhere
    > that shows more.


    I have an elderly VHS of the tape in question, which I happened to watch
    last evening - the shot is 'modest' on that version.

    Too bad.
     
    Jay Stewart, Jan 11, 2004
    #12
  13. Michael Rogers

    drsd2kill Guest

    Speaking of nudity, has anyone compared the widescreen and fullscreen versions
    of THE WOMAN IN RED? The fullframe unmatted version that has been on video
    forever shows full frontal nudity that is cropped out of the widescreen release
    - and the film is rated PG13! I doubt it would be if the unmatted version was
    screened. I know breasts sometimes pop up in PG13 films, but bush? I don't
    think so....
     
    drsd2kill, Jan 12, 2004
    #13
  14. Michael Rogers

    Jordan Lund Guest

    Michael Rogers <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > I just got the 1976 "Black Sunday" (not the Mario Bava horror film, the
    > Paramount picture produced by Robert Evens). First of all, Damn
    > Paramount for not even putting on a theatrical trailer.


    IIRC Black Sunday was originally a made for TV movie.

    > Now, concerning "Black Sunday" I've heard a couple people on Amazon and
    > IMDB comment on how there was originally a nude scene with Marthe Keller
    > when she's confronted in the shower by Robert Shaw. And that all video
    > versions cut the scene (or rather convert it to angles where no nudity
    > is shown).


    See above. I seriously doubt anything was added for later video releases.

    - Jordan
     
    Jordan Lund, Jan 12, 2004
    #14
  15. Michael Rogers

    SoHillsGuy Guest

    << IIRC Black Sunday was originally a made for TV movie. >><BR><BR>


    No, it wasn't.
     
    SoHillsGuy, Jan 12, 2004
    #15

  16. >
    > Michael Rogers <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > I just got the 1976 "Black Sunday" (not the Mario Bava horror film, the
    > > Paramount picture produced by Robert Evens). First of all, Damn
    > > Paramount for not even putting on a theatrical trailer.

    >
    > IIRC Black Sunday was originally a made for TV movie.


    No, it was in theaters. I remember when it played in theaters but I
    couldn't see it 'cause it was rated R. Also, TV movies would not be in
    in the 2.35 to 1 ratio.

    Mike
     
    Michael Rogers, Jan 13, 2004
    #16
  17. Michael Rogers

    blue88 Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Speaking of nudity, has anyone compared the widescreen and fullscreen versions
    > of THE WOMAN IN RED? The fullframe unmatted version that has been on video
    > forever shows full frontal nudity that is cropped out of the widescreen release
    > - and the film is rated PG13! I doubt it would be if the unmatted version was
    > screened. I know breasts sometimes pop up in PG13 films, but bush? I don't
    > think so....

    "The Woman in Red" was released when the PG-13 rating was applied to
    those films that would have been rated R before the advent of the new
    rating. Now, the PG-13 rating is applied to some movies that would have
    been rated G at some point, just to appeal to the teen audience. For
    example, consider "Planet of the Apes." The original was rated G, but
    contained profanity (notably the memorable last line), violence and
    brief rear nudity. The remake had less profanity, less realistic
    violence, and no hint of nudity, but was rated PG-13.

    Furthermore, full frontal nudity has appeared even in PG rated movies;
    for example, "Jabberwocky."

    The only point is that ratings are applied differently over time.
    Consider "Amadeus" as another example. It was released in the mid-80s
    with a PG rating, due to some profanity and brief male nudity in the
    early scenes at the sanitorium. The director's cut was released a
    couple of years ago, and the only major difference in content was brief
    female nudity; it would surely have maintained the PG upon original
    release, but was now re-rated R.
     
    blue88, Jan 17, 2004
    #17
  18. Michael Rogers

    Anony Guest

    And Psycho (1960) was originally Rated M (in the re-release in the late
    '60) which later became PG. Sometime in the early '90s the film acquired an
    R rating which IMO is a bit strict. PG13...maybe...but R???

    Another is A Man Called Horse which was PG in the early '70 and the latest
    DVD version carries an R.

    Is there some secret conservative agenda at work here?? LOL

    Conversely some films have been "downgraded". Midnight Cowboy from an X to
    an R.





    in article , blue88 at
    wrote on 1/17/04 12:27 PM:

    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> Speaking of nudity, has anyone compared the widescreen and fullscreen
    >> versions
    >> of THE WOMAN IN RED? The fullframe unmatted version that has been on video
    >> forever shows full frontal nudity that is cropped out of the widescreen
    >> release
    >> - and the film is rated PG13! I doubt it would be if the unmatted version was
    >> screened. I know breasts sometimes pop up in PG13 films, but bush? I don't
    >> think so....

    > "The Woman in Red" was released when the PG-13 rating was applied to
    > those films that would have been rated R before the advent of the new
    > rating. Now, the PG-13 rating is applied to some movies that would have
    > been rated G at some point, just to appeal to the teen audience. For
    > example, consider "Planet of the Apes." The original was rated G, but
    > contained profanity (notably the memorable last line), violence and
    > brief rear nudity. The remake had less profanity, less realistic
    > violence, and no hint of nudity, but was rated PG-13.
    >
    > Furthermore, full frontal nudity has appeared even in PG rated movies;
    > for example, "Jabberwocky."
    >
    > The only point is that ratings are applied differently over time.
    > Consider "Amadeus" as another example. It was released in the mid-80s
    > with a PG rating, due to some profanity and brief male nudity in the
    > early scenes at the sanitorium. The director's cut was released a
    > couple of years ago, and the only major difference in content was brief
    > female nudity; it would surely have maintained the PG upon original
    > release, but was now re-rated R.
     
    Anony, Jan 18, 2004
    #18
  19. Michael Rogers

    GMAN Guest

    In article <BC308AA4.26281%>, Anony <> wrote:
    >And Psycho (1960) was originally Rated M (in the re-release in the late
    >'60) which later became PG. Sometime in the early '90s the film acquired an
    >R rating which IMO is a bit strict. PG13...maybe...but R???
    >
    >Another is A Man Called Horse which was PG in the early '70 and the latest
    >DVD version carries an R.
    >
    >Is there some secret conservative agenda at work here?? LOL
    >


    Why do you say that? If i recall, it was al gore and his bitch wife in the
    early 80's that tried to censor music and managed to get the music companies
    to put ratings on their albums

    >Conversely some films have been "downgraded". Midnight Cowboy from an X to
    >an R.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >in article , blue88 at
    > wrote on 1/17/04 12:27 PM:
    >
    >> In article <>,
    >> says...
    >>> Speaking of nudity, has anyone compared the widescreen and fullscreen
    >>> versions
    >>> of THE WOMAN IN RED? The fullframe unmatted version that has been on video
    >>> forever shows full frontal nudity that is cropped out of the widescreen
    >>> release
    >>> - and the film is rated PG13! I doubt it would be if the unmatted version

    > was
    >>> screened. I know breasts sometimes pop up in PG13 films, but bush? I don't
    >>> think so....

    >> "The Woman in Red" was released when the PG-13 rating was applied to
    >> those films that would have been rated R before the advent of the new
    >> rating. Now, the PG-13 rating is applied to some movies that would have
    >> been rated G at some point, just to appeal to the teen audience. For
    >> example, consider "Planet of the Apes." The original was rated G, but
    >> contained profanity (notably the memorable last line), violence and
    >> brief rear nudity. The remake had less profanity, less realistic
    >> violence, and no hint of nudity, but was rated PG-13.
    >>
    >> Furthermore, full frontal nudity has appeared even in PG rated movies;
    >> for example, "Jabberwocky."
    >>
    >> The only point is that ratings are applied differently over time.
    >> Consider "Amadeus" as another example. It was released in the mid-80s
    >> with a PG rating, due to some profanity and brief male nudity in the
    >> early scenes at the sanitorium. The director's cut was released a
    >> couple of years ago, and the only major difference in content was brief
    >> female nudity; it would surely have maintained the PG upon original
    >> release, but was now re-rated R.

    >
    >
     
    GMAN, Jan 26, 2004
    #19
  20. Michael Rogers

    Mike Dobony Guest

    "GMAN" <> wrote in message
    news:bv43n3$kj9$...
    > In article <BC308AA4.26281%>, Anony <>

    wrote:
    > >And Psycho (1960) was originally Rated M (in the re-release in the late
    > >'60) which later became PG. Sometime in the early '90s the film acquired

    an
    > >R rating which IMO is a bit strict. PG13...maybe...but R???
    > >
    > >Another is A Man Called Horse which was PG in the early '70 and the

    latest
    > >DVD version carries an R.
    > >
    > >Is there some secret conservative agenda at work here?? LOL
    > >

    >
    > Why do you say that? If i recall, it was al gore and his bitch wife in the
    > early 80's that tried to censor music and managed to get the music

    companies
    > to put ratings on their albums
    >


    One of the rare good thing the crybaby did right.

    > >Conversely some films have been "downgraded". Midnight Cowboy from an X

    to
    > >an R.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >in article , blue88 at
    > > wrote on 1/17/04 12:27 PM:
    > >
    > >> In article <>,
    > >> says...
    > >>> Speaking of nudity, has anyone compared the widescreen and fullscreen
    > >>> versions
    > >>> of THE WOMAN IN RED? The fullframe unmatted version that has been on

    video
    > >>> forever shows full frontal nudity that is cropped out of the

    widescreen
    > >>> release
    > >>> - and the film is rated PG13! I doubt it would be if the unmatted

    version
    > > was
    > >>> screened. I know breasts sometimes pop up in PG13 films, but bush? I

    don't
    > >>> think so....
    > >> "The Woman in Red" was released when the PG-13 rating was applied to
    > >> those films that would have been rated R before the advent of the new
    > >> rating. Now, the PG-13 rating is applied to some movies that would

    have
    > >> been rated G at some point, just to appeal to the teen audience. For
    > >> example, consider "Planet of the Apes." The original was rated G, but
    > >> contained profanity (notably the memorable last line), violence and
    > >> brief rear nudity. The remake had less profanity, less realistic
    > >> violence, and no hint of nudity, but was rated PG-13.
    > >>
    > >> Furthermore, full frontal nudity has appeared even in PG rated movies;
    > >> for example, "Jabberwocky."
    > >>
    > >> The only point is that ratings are applied differently over time.
    > >> Consider "Amadeus" as another example. It was released in the mid-80s
    > >> with a PG rating, due to some profanity and brief male nudity in the
    > >> early scenes at the sanitorium. The director's cut was released a
    > >> couple of years ago, and the only major difference in content was brief
    > >> female nudity; it would surely have maintained the PG upon original
    > >> release, but was now re-rated R.

    > >
    > >


    What about South Park, which by the standards should have been rated X, but
    through corrupt means got it to slide through as R?

    --
    Mike D.

    www.stopassaultnow.org

    Remove .spamnot to respond by email



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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    Mike Dobony, Jan 27, 2004
    #20
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