black dog on snow

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Joe, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. Joe

    Joe Guest

    I used my Canon S1 IS

    Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    in a snow covered field?

    I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature comes
    out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as he!!. The
    texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the other two
    pics.

    I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.

    What would be good starting settings to use?

    Thanks

    Joe M.
     
    Joe, Dec 17, 2005
    #1
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  2. "Joe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I used my Canon S1 IS
    >
    > Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    > in a snow covered field?
    >
    > I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature comes
    > out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as he!!. The
    > texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the other two
    > pics.
    >
    > I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.
    >
    > What would be good starting settings to use?


    A question of dynamic range. Cameras simply cannot record extreme dynamic
    range, to human satisfaction. Some folks take multiple shots and use
    post-processing to compress various areas and then blend the whole thing
    into a final picture.

    All we have to work with (with current technology) is about 6 to 10 stops
    (depends on the camera and settings, etc). Your scene exceeds that.
     
    Charles Schuler, Dec 17, 2005
    #2
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  3. Joe

    Ole Larsen Guest

    Joe skrev:
    > I used my Canon S1 IS
    >
    > Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    > in a snow covered field?
    >
    > I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature comes
    > out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as he!!. The
    > texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the other two
    > pics.
    >
    > I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.
    >
    > What would be good starting settings to use?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Joe M.
    >

    You´ll have to choose because of the big dynamic range. Either the dog
    or the snow exposed correctly. It is possible, however, to blend two
    diff. exposures ( one for the blacks and one for the whites )

    --
    Med venlig hilsen, Ole Larsen.
    New Images And Design 2005-11-17
    http://home.tiscali.dk/muggler
     
    Ole Larsen, Dec 17, 2005
    #3
  4. Joe

    Jim Guest

    "Joe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I used my Canon S1 IS
    >
    > Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    > in a snow covered field?
    >
    > I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature comes
    > out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as he!!. The
    > texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the other two
    > pics.
    >
    > I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.
    >
    > What would be good starting settings to use?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Joe M.
    >

    Here are a few but I must tell you that getting good exposure of snow is
    difficult and also getting good exposure of a black dog is equally
    difficult.

    1. Take a spot meter reading of the dog. The resultant image will be
    closer to gray than black. Close down the aperature 1 stop and try again.
    2. Take an average meter reading of the snow. The resultant image will be
    closer to gray than white. Open up the aperature 2 stops and try again.
    3. Take a spot meter of an object in the snow which has average
    reflectivity (neither dog nor snow qualify). This image may be the best you
    can do.
    In all instances, you need to try several combinations of aperature and
    shutter speed.
    Jim
     
    Jim, Dec 18, 2005
    #4
  5. Joe

    Marvin Guest

    Charles Schuler wrote:
    > "Joe" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>I used my Canon S1 IS
    >>
    >>Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    >>in a snow covered field?
    >>
    >>I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature comes
    >>out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as he!!. The
    >>texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the other two
    >>pics.
    >>
    >>I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.
    >>
    >>What would be good starting settings to use?

    >
    >
    > A question of dynamic range. Cameras simply cannot record extreme dynamic
    > range, to human satisfaction. Some folks take multiple shots and use
    > post-processing to compress various areas and then blend the whole thing
    > into a final picture.
    >
    > All we have to work with (with current technology) is about 6 to 10 stops
    > (depends on the camera and settings, etc). Your scene exceeds that.
    >
    >

    In addition, the dynamic range of a print is much less than the range of a digicam, or of
    film. Image editing software can help, if you want to make editing part of photography.
    You can decrease the dymnamic range of an image by changing the parameter called "gamma".
    You can also combine parts of different images. For example, you can cut the dog from
    one image where he is properly exposed, and paste him into another image where the snow is
    properly exposed.
     
    Marvin, Dec 18, 2005
    #5
  6. I guess, as others have stated, your problem is in limited dynamic
    range of the digital sensor...

    The only solution I can think of would be to shoot 12-bit RAW (if your
    camera supports shooting RAW - I don't think Canon S1 IS does) and make
    a "sandwich" in Photoshop out of two differently converted images - one
    for highlights and another for shadows.

    This will provide a better dynamic range than a JPEG straight from the
    camera... Of course, a black dog on white snow is a bit of an extreme
    and even 12-bit capture might not be up to the task..

    Another solution would be to stabilize the camera on a tripod and shoot
    bracketed images (fast, you don't want the dog moving between the
    shots) and try to emulate the "sandwich" with an
    underexposed+overexposed shots...

    Without this you will have to decide what is more important in the
    picture. If it is the dog, then try zooming in and catch your playful
    pet up close with the least amount of terribly overexposed snow. If
    it's the whole scene - try metering a neutral object (a tree) and
    adjust the exposure to your preference... Bracket it in different
    increments to decide which amount of over/under-exposure you can
    tolerate in the different subjects of the image
     
    Artem Lipatov, Dec 18, 2005
    #6
  7. Marvin wrote:
    > Charles Schuler wrote:


    > In addition, the dynamic range of a print is much less than the range of
    > a digicam, or of film. Image editing software can help, if you want to
    > make editing part of photography. You can decrease the dymnamic range of
    > an image by changing the parameter called "gamma". You can also combine
    > parts of different images. For example, you can cut the dog from one
    > image where he is properly exposed, and paste him into another image
    > where the snow is properly exposed.


    Or, expose for the dog, shoot a frame. Dismiss dog. Shoot a frame
    exposed for the snow, using a tripod for both. Now layer the two frames
    in photoshop and play with the blending modes.

    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Dec 18, 2005
    #7
  8. Joe

    spudnuty Guest

    I think the sandwich method is the best approach here. Either that or
    use film :<).
    Sorry couldn't help that (having shot film as a pro then video).
    These new cameras have gotten a lot better with dynamic range they used
    to be awful. It's situations like this that show how far they have to
    go.
    Richard
     
    spudnuty, Dec 18, 2005
    #8
  9. Joe

    Rod Williams Guest

    Joe wrote:
    > I used my Canon S1 IS
    >
    > Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    > in a snow covered field?
    >
    > I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature comes
    > out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as he!!. The
    > texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the other two
    > pics.
    >
    > I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.
    >
    > What would be good starting settings to use?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Joe M.
    >

    It is very easy if you have two exposures and a program like photoshop
    that can deal with layers. One of the snow that is correct and one of
    the dog that is correct. You then use the dog from one and the snow from
    the other. You will never get it in one shot.
     
    Rod Williams, Dec 18, 2005
    #9
  10. Joe

    RustY© Guest

    "Joe" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    > in a snow covered field?
    >

    No - you've no chance ! I did a black girl in a white wedding dress once,
    what a nightmare. Still the family was happy with the results but to show
    her face the dress detail had completely gone!
     
    RustY©, Dec 18, 2005
    #10
  11. "Joe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I used my Canon S1 IS
    >
    > Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    > in a snow covered field?
    >
    > I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature comes
    > out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as he!!. The
    > texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the other two
    > pics.
    >
    > I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.
    >
    > What would be good starting settings to use?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Joe M.


    Can't be bothered to read all the other posts - so I may repeat:

    Take the light readings from the snow scene, and use fill in flash on the
    dog close up. Should balance out scene and illuminate dog quite well, with a
    few experiements.

    **SS**
     
    Secret Squiddle, Dec 18, 2005
    #11
  12. Joe

    Frank ess Guest

    Rod Williams wrote:
    > Joe wrote:
    >> I used my Canon S1 IS
    >>
    >> Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny
    >> day in a snow covered field?
    >>
    >> I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature
    >> comes out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as
    >> he!!. The texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the
    >> other two pics.
    >>
    >> I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.
    >>
    >> What would be good starting settings to use?
    >>
    >> Thanks
    >>
    >> Joe M.
    >>

    > It is very easy if you have two exposures and a program like
    > photoshop
    > that can deal with layers. One of the snow that is correct and one
    > of
    > the dog that is correct. You then use the dog from one and the snow
    > from the other. You will never get it in one shot.


    I'd reckon it'll not work as well for such extremes as crows or black
    dogs on snow, but you may be able to pull something out of just one
    frame. These three show:
    an original with the near interior buried in shadow
    a lightened version with deatil showing in the dark, but lost drama in
    the sky, and
    a combined view, lightened layered over original, with the light sky
    erased before flattening the image. No biggie, from a Minolta Xt, but
    a hint that there may be detail in the darks that can be extracted to
    some benefit, and perhaps NoiseNinja-ed if intolerable noise emerges.

    Original
    http://www.fototime.com/2C154491532DCA7/standard.jpg
    Lightened
    http://www.fototime.com/1A6813286BD91C7/standard.jpg
    Composite
    http://www.fototime.com/D101F3C8FC83D89/standard.jpg


    --
    Frank ess
     
    Frank ess, Dec 18, 2005
    #12
  13. Joe

    Dave Cohen Guest

    "Secret Squiddle" <> wrote in message
    news:43a5c101$0$29572$...
    >
    > "Joe" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>I used my Canon S1 IS
    >>
    >> Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    >> in a snow covered field?
    >>
    >> I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature comes
    >> out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as he!!. The
    >> texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the other two
    >> pics.
    >>
    >> I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.
    >>
    >> What would be good starting settings to use?
    >>
    >> Thanks
    >>
    >> Joe M.

    >
    > Can't be bothered to read all the other posts - so I may repeat:
    >
    > Take the light readings from the snow scene, and use fill in flash on the
    > dog close up. Should balance out scene and illuminate dog quite well, with
    > a few experiements.
    >
    > **SS**

    That sounds like the best suggestion so far. I would let the camera figure
    out the exposure and maybe bracket using exposure compensation. Let the
    camera do all it can before resorting to photo editing solutions. And by the
    way, while PhotoShop may be a fine editor, it's awfully expensive and there
    are others out there that work just fine and are affordable.
    Dave Cohen
     
    Dave Cohen, Dec 18, 2005
    #13
  14. Joe

    Guest Guest

    "Joe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I used my Canon S1 IS
    >
    > Is it possible to take a good pic of a black dog on a bright sunny day
    > in a snow covered field?
    >
    > I am just learning. I bracketed the exposure and his musculature comes
    > out nicely in the overexposed shot but the rest is bright as he!!. The
    > texture of the snow and the vegetation looked ok in the other two
    > pics.
    >
    > I set the iso at 100 and I played with f-stop and shutter speed.
    >
    > What would be good starting settings to use?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Joe M.


    You need a different dog.
     
    Guest, Dec 19, 2005
    #14
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