Black and White

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by tony cooper, Nov 20, 2008.

  1. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
    effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
    messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
    offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
    need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
    as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)

    I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
    information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.

    Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
    Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
    channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
    that channel.

    My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
    using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
    Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
    layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
    certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.

    Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    techniques?

    (I use Photoshop 7.0)



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 20, 2008
    #1
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  2. On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:20:25 -0500, tony cooper <>
    wrote:

    >Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
    >effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
    >messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
    >offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
    >need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
    >as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
    >
    >I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
    >information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
    >
    >Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
    >Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
    >channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
    >that channel.
    >
    >My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
    >using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
    >Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
    >layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
    >certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
    >
    >Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    >techniques?
    >
    >(I use Photoshop 7.0)
    >
    >


    None of the above.

    You need to learn how to use a good Channel-Mixer tool. Mixing them in
    proportions of (approx.) 30%R, 59%G, and 11%B will start you off with the grays
    appearing as they do to the human eye. Work it further using the Channel-Mixer
    from that starting point.

    I prefer the Channel-Mixer in Photoline because it has an option to "Fix to
    100%", meaning, as you change one it will change the other two to always keep
    the percentage at 100% of all channels combined. You don't have to constantly do
    the quick adding in your head to make them add up to 100. It also has an
    adjustment to tweak contrast as you do this. It also allows you to go as low a
    -200% and as high as +200% for each channel. Allowing for some novel reversals
    that make very realistic looking IR images. It also allows you to work on
    individual colors (mapping new RGB values to each color channel), or full-color,
    as well as its more typical use of working in gray-scale only for B&W work.

    Get and learn how to use a good "Channel Mixer".
    Fenton B Harper, Nov 20, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:20:25 -0500, tony cooper <>
    wrote:

    >Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
    >effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
    >messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
    >offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
    >need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
    >as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
    >
    >I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
    >information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
    >
    >Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
    >Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
    >channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
    >that channel.
    >
    >My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
    >using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
    >Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
    >layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
    >certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
    >
    >Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    >techniques?
    >
    >(I use Photoshop 7.0)
    >
    >


    Typo correction **

    None of the above.

    You need to learn how to use a good Channel-Mixer tool. Mixing them in
    proportions of (approx.) 30%R, 59%G, and 11%B will start you off with the grays
    appearing as they do to the human eye. Work it further using the Channel-Mixer
    from that starting point.

    I prefer the Channel-Mixer in Photoline because it has an option to "Fix to
    100%", meaning, as you change one it will change the other two to always keep
    the percentage at 100% of all channels combined. You don't have to constantly do
    the quick adding in your head to make them add up to 100. It also has an
    adjustment to **set it to a constant** (not contrast) as you do this. It also
    allows you to go as low a -200% and as high as +200% for each channel. Allowing
    for some novel reversals that make very realistic looking IR images. It also
    allows you to work on individual colors (mapping new RGB values to each color
    channel), or full-color, as well as its more typical use of working in
    gray-scale only for B&W work.

    Get and learn how to use a good "Channel Mixer".
    Fenton B Harper, Nov 20, 2008
    #3
  4. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:42:34 -0600, Fenton B Harper
    <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:20:25 -0500, tony cooper <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
    >>effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
    >>messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
    >>offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
    >>need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
    >>as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
    >>
    >>I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
    >>information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
    >>
    >>Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
    >>Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
    >>channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
    >>that channel.
    >>
    >>My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
    >>using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
    >>Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
    >>layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
    >>certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
    >>
    >>Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    >>techniques?
    >>
    >>(I use Photoshop 7.0)
    >>
    >>

    >
    >None of the above.
    >
    >You need to learn how to use a good Channel-Mixer tool. Mixing them in
    >proportions of (approx.) 30%R, 59%G, and 11%B will start you off with the grays
    >appearing as they do to the human eye. Work it further using the Channel-Mixer
    >from that starting point.
    >
    >I prefer the Channel-Mixer in Photoline because it has an option to "Fix to
    >100%", meaning, as you change one it will change the other two to always keep
    >the percentage at 100% of all channels combined. You don't have to constantly do
    >the quick adding in your head to make them add up to 100. It also has an
    >adjustment to tweak contrast as you do this. It also allows you to go as low a
    >-200% and as high as +200% for each channel. Allowing for some novel reversals
    >that make very realistic looking IR images. It also allows you to work on
    >individual colors (mapping new RGB values to each color channel), or full-color,
    >as well as its more typical use of working in gray-scale only for B&W work.
    >
    >Get and learn how to use a good "Channel Mixer".


    Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll stay with Photoshop since I use it
    for other functions. Photoshop does have the Channel Mixer function,
    and I tried it on one of the images I worked in with
    less-than-acceptable results. Obviously, I have to read-up on this
    tool.

    One thing I noticed in using your figures above is that the subject
    converts to B&W OK, but the sky is an ugly gray. My other efforts
    have resulted in better results in the sky.

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 20, 2008
    #4
  5. tony cooper

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    > Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    > techniques?
    >
    > (I use Photoshop 7.0)


    check out russell brown's tutorial videos. here's one using ps7:
    <http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/ColortoBW.mov>

    these are for later versions of ps, but the techniques might still be
    applicable:
    <http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/BlackWhiteVariationsSM.mov>
    <http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/CS3Color_To_BWSM.mov>
    nospam, Nov 20, 2008
    #5
  6. tony cooper

    AlexanderD Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:38:49 -0500, tony cooper <>
    wrote:

    >On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:42:34 -0600, Fenton B Harper
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:20:25 -0500, tony cooper <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
    >>>effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
    >>>messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
    >>>offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
    >>>need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
    >>>as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
    >>>
    >>>I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
    >>>information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
    >>>
    >>>Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
    >>>Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
    >>>channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
    >>>that channel.
    >>>
    >>>My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
    >>>using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
    >>>Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
    >>>layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
    >>>certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
    >>>
    >>>Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    >>>techniques?
    >>>
    >>>(I use Photoshop 7.0)
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>None of the above.
    >>
    >>You need to learn how to use a good Channel-Mixer tool. Mixing them in
    >>proportions of (approx.) 30%R, 59%G, and 11%B will start you off with the grays
    >>appearing as they do to the human eye. Work it further using the Channel-Mixer
    >>from that starting point.
    >>
    >>I prefer the Channel-Mixer in Photoline because it has an option to "Fix to
    >>100%", meaning, as you change one it will change the other two to always keep
    >>the percentage at 100% of all channels combined. You don't have to constantly do
    >>the quick adding in your head to make them add up to 100. It also has an
    >>adjustment to tweak contrast as you do this. It also allows you to go as low a
    >>-200% and as high as +200% for each channel. Allowing for some novel reversals
    >>that make very realistic looking IR images. It also allows you to work on
    >>individual colors (mapping new RGB values to each color channel), or full-color,
    >>as well as its more typical use of working in gray-scale only for B&W work.
    >>
    >>Get and learn how to use a good "Channel Mixer".

    >
    >Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll stay with Photoshop since I use it
    >for other functions. Photoshop does have the Channel Mixer function,
    >and I tried it on one of the images I worked in with
    >less-than-acceptable results. Obviously, I have to read-up on this
    >tool.
    >
    >One thing I noticed in using your figures above is that the subject
    >converts to B&W OK, but the sky is an ugly gray. My other efforts
    >have resulted in better results in the sky.


    This is exactly why color filters were (are) used in B&W photography. You use
    the Channel-Mixer adjustments in the same way as adding filter to the front of
    your lens. Add a blue filter (more blue %, less red and green) to lighten the
    sky, add a red filter (more red %, less blue and green) to darken the blue sky.
    This is what you are doing with the channel mixer. Add more green (less red) to
    brighten foliage, add more red (less green) to darken foliage. etc.

    B&W photography basics 101, only now you use a channel-mixer in a similar
    manner.
    AlexanderD, Nov 20, 2008
    #6
  7. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:47:39 -0500, nospam <>
    wrote:

    >In article <>, tony cooper
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    >> techniques?
    >>
    >> (I use Photoshop 7.0)

    >
    >check out russell brown's tutorial videos. here's one using ps7:
    ><http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/ColortoBW.mov>
    >
    >these are for later versions of ps, but the techniques might still be
    >applicable:
    ><http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/BlackWhiteVariationsSM.mov>
    ><http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/CS3Color_To_BWSM.mov>


    Interesting. More than one way to skin a cat.

    I'll try Brown's techniques tomorrow.

    I've never viewed a Russell Brown video before. Bit of a showman, but
    it the suggestions work....

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 20, 2008
    #7
  8. tony cooper wrote:
    []
    > My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
    > using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
    > Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
    > layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
    > certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
    >
    > Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    > techniques?


    I'm tempted to say do whichever gives you the best results - the results
    which you prefer. There is no one "correct" answer when subjective
    results are involved.

    My own use of monochrome has been mainly for night shots, where the very
    mixed lighting sources can result in some very odd colour balance. Using
    monochrome adds mood and reduces the visibility of noise.

    David
    David J Taylor, Nov 20, 2008
    #8
  9. tony cooper

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, John
    McWilliams <> wrote:

    > Ah, thanks for the top link. That's the process I referred to, but
    > couldn't recall the steps. You can make an action of this as well, which
    > is what I did till I got the CS version.


    he has assorted actions to download at his site.
    nospam, Nov 20, 2008
    #9
  10. tony cooper

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    > Interesting. More than one way to skin a cat.


    very true. there's also this:
    http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/photoshop/articles/phs8bwconversion.ht
    ml

    > I'll try Brown's techniques tomorrow.
    >
    > I've never viewed a Russell Brown video before. Bit of a showman, but
    > it the suggestions work....


    he's quite entertaining and some of this other videos are *very*
    impressive.
    nospam, Nov 20, 2008
    #10
  11. tony cooper

    Pat Guest

    On Nov 20, 12:20 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    > Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
    > effective in black and white.  I shot some today that I have been
    > messing around with to this end.  (I won't link to them for fear of
    > offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
    > need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
    > as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
    >
    > I find that there are several recommended techniques.  Most websource
    > information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
    >
    > Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
    > Channel to Gray Scale.  He also recommends working with just one
    > channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
    > that channel.
    >
    > My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
    > using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
    > Adjustment Layer.  In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
    > layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
    > certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
    >
    > Any recommendations from anyone in the group?  General work flow
    > techniques?
    >
    > (I use Photoshop 7.0)
    >
    > --
    > Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida


    Tony, whenever I mention anything about work-flow, people in these NGs
    go bizzerk. There are times when how you do things are more important
    that what you're doing -- esp. if you are dealing with a large number
    of photos. If you're doing 1 or 2, so what. If you're doing 1000
    it's another story altogether.

    So, given that, if you are doing a large number of photos and you are
    just proofing (or something like that) -- and you are primarily using
    B&W to speed up the printing, then one very good options is (are your
    ready for this) to just go into your printer driver and tell it to
    print in grayscale. Quick and simple.
    Pat, Nov 20, 2008
    #11
  12. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:42:30 GMT, "David J Taylor"
    <-this-part.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >[]
    >> My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
    >> using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
    >> Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
    >> layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
    >> certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
    >>
    >> Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    >> techniques?

    >
    >I'm tempted to say do whichever gives you the best results - the results
    >which you prefer. There is no one "correct" answer when subjective
    >results are involved.


    That's most often the answer when the question is about Photoshop.
    There is always more than one way to do anything in Photoshop, and I
    have my own pet techniques that I employ because they give me the best
    results.

    The object of posting the question here is to learn about the
    different ways possible. I'd read up a bit on converting to black and
    white, and most sources recommend setting to gray scale instead of
    desaturation. Yet, there's that Russell Brown video that gets good
    results from desaturation.

    My Photoshop version has channel mixing. I've used it sparingly in
    color images, but never considered it for black & white. This thread
    produced that suggestion.
    >
    >My own use of monochrome has been mainly for night shots, where the very
    >mixed lighting sources can result in some very odd colour balance. Using
    >monochrome adds mood and reduces the visibility of noise.


    This may sound heretical to some, but I've used it successfully with
    some failed color shots. Failed in the sense that the shot lacks the
    impact that I thought it would have when I took it. Converting that
    shot to black and white, though, can provide that impact. There are
    some situations where really blowing out the whites *adds* to the
    image.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 20, 2008
    #12
  13. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 05:44:47 -0800 (PST), Pat
    <> wrote:

    >On Nov 20, 12:20 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    >> Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
    >> effective in black and white.  I shot some today that I have been
    >> messing around with to this end.  (I won't link to them for fear of
    >> offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
    >> need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
    >> as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
    >>
    >> I find that there are several recommended techniques.  Most websource
    >> information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
    >>
    >> Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
    >> Channel to Gray Scale.  He also recommends working with just one
    >> channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
    >> that channel.
    >>
    >> My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
    >> using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
    >> Adjustment Layer.  In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
    >> layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
    >> certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
    >>
    >> Any recommendations from anyone in the group?  General work flow
    >> techniques?
    >>
    >> (I use Photoshop 7.0)
    >>
    >> --
    >> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

    >
    >Tony, whenever I mention anything about work-flow, people in these NGs
    >go bizzerk. There are times when how you do things are more important
    >that what you're doing -- esp. if you are dealing with a large number
    >of photos. If you're doing 1 or 2, so what. If you're doing 1000
    >it's another story altogether.
    >
    >So, given that, if you are doing a large number of photos and you are
    >just proofing (or something like that) -- and you are primarily using
    >B&W to speed up the printing, then one very good options is (are your
    >ready for this) to just go into your printer driver and tell it to
    >print in grayscale. Quick and simple.


    I'm using work flow in a different sense, then. I mean the order of
    steps taken in processing a single image. Just for example, some say
    sharpen last, but in working in Lab Mode you can sharpen just the
    Lightness Channel before you convert back to RPG to produce a .jpg.
    You can then still adjust the RPG version without causing noise.

    I'm strictly an amateur. I usually print no more than a few images at
    a time.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 20, 2008
    #13
  14. tony cooper wrote:
    > On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:42:30 GMT, "David J Taylor"

    []
    >> My own use of monochrome has been mainly for night shots, where the
    >> very mixed lighting sources can result in some very odd colour
    >> balance. Using monochrome adds mood and reduces the visibility of
    >> noise.

    >
    > This may sound heretical to some, but I've used it successfully with
    > some failed color shots. Failed in the sense that the shot lacks the
    > impact that I thought it would have when I took it. Converting that
    > shot to black and white, though, can provide that impact. There are
    > some situations where really blowing out the whites *adds* to the
    > image.


    It makes the image stand out from the crowd!

    David
    David J Taylor, Nov 20, 2008
    #14
  15. tony cooper

    FourthNFifth Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:26:20 +0900, "David J. Littleboy" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"nospam" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> check out russell brown's tutorial videos. here's one using ps7:
    >> <http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/ColortoBW.mov>

    >
    >Interesting. Thanks. Quite useful, even.
    >
    >But Photoshop is such a screaming pain in the butt. Picture Window Pro has a
    >tool that does that, but gives you a single control that lets you select the
    >filter in a color wheel. Simply, intuitive, easy. Photoshop hides the point
    >that hue wraps around.
    >
    >The Photoshop CS3 "Black & White" adjustment layer's default is OK, but all
    >the other preset settings are so off-the-wall extreme that they're
    >completely useless. You think they'd give you a red filter that does roughly
    >what a red filter on B&W film does. No such luck.


    I like using Photolines channl-mixer for this, you know what color is being
    changed by what. The given tutorial example in the above link I found
    interesting too. But like you, the more I played with it, it started to be
    rather gimmicky. Could have some possible uses but ...

    You might find this relatively inexpensive program interesting.

    http://www.mediachance.com/pbrush/index.html

    One of its included filters is their "FilterSIM", that allows you to choose any
    one of the 65 Kodak Wratten filters and see how it affects an image when done in
    B/W.

    In all, it's not a bad editor for someone. It's not the best program I've ever
    played but has some merits, and a few features that you won't find in any other
    program. It's why I keep it installed.

    Check their freebies page too. There's a free B/W-Works program with some quick
    B/W presets. Some are fairly well done.

    http://www.mediachance.com/digicam/bworks.htm

    They also have their free FilterSIM program, but that doesn't include the B/W
    option like the one included with their program.
    FourthNFifth, Nov 20, 2008
    #15
  16. tony cooper

    George Faust Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:17:29 GMT, "David J Taylor"
    <-this-part.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:42:30 GMT, "David J Taylor"

    >[]
    >>> My own use of monochrome has been mainly for night shots, where the
    >>> very mixed lighting sources can result in some very odd colour
    >>> balance. Using monochrome adds mood and reduces the visibility of
    >>> noise.

    >>
    >> This may sound heretical to some, but I've used it successfully with
    >> some failed color shots. Failed in the sense that the shot lacks the
    >> impact that I thought it would have when I took it. Converting that
    >> shot to black and white, though, can provide that impact. There are
    >> some situations where really blowing out the whites *adds* to the
    >> image.

    >
    >It makes the image stand out from the crowd!
    >
    >David


    Reduced dynamic range has its merits, when used effectively. Something that few
    on this newsgroup will ever comprehend.

    Quick other-end of the spectrum example. How irritating it can be to keep
    getting details in the shadows of a much needed silhouette. How I hate that at
    times with the larger dynamic range of digital. Heavy-handed editing is the only
    solution.
    George Faust, Nov 20, 2008
    #16
  17. On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:34:11 -0600, FourthNFifth <>
    wrote:

    >On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:26:20 +0900, "David J. Littleboy" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"nospam" <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> check out russell brown's tutorial videos. here's one using ps7:
    >>> <http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/ColortoBW.mov>

    >>
    >>Interesting. Thanks. Quite useful, even.
    >>
    >>But Photoshop is such a screaming pain in the butt. Picture Window Pro has a
    >>tool that does that, but gives you a single control that lets you select the
    >>filter in a color wheel. Simply, intuitive, easy. Photoshop hides the point
    >>that hue wraps around.
    >>
    >>The Photoshop CS3 "Black & White" adjustment layer's default is OK, but all
    >>the other preset settings are so off-the-wall extreme that they're
    >>completely useless. You think they'd give you a red filter that does roughly
    >>what a red filter on B&W film does. No such luck.

    >
    >I like using Photolines channl-mixer for this, you know what color is being
    >changed by what. The given tutorial example in the above link I found
    >interesting too. But like you, the more I played with it, it started to be
    >rather gimmicky. Could have some possible uses but ...
    >
    >You might find this relatively inexpensive program interesting.
    >
    >http://www.mediachance.com/pbrush/index.html
    >
    >One of its included filters is their "FilterSIM", that allows you to choose any
    >one of the 65 Kodak Wratten filters and see how it affects an image when done in
    >B/W.
    >
    >In all, it's not a bad editor for someone. It's not the best program I've ever
    >played but has some merits, and a few features that you won't find in any other
    >program. It's why I keep it installed.
    >


    Been awhile since I updated mine, so I thought I'd download a later version to
    see "what's new".

    There's an interesting fun tool in their latest releases. In the "Adjust" menu,
    the "B/W Mixer..."

    An RBG gradient color-space, with a selector that lets you choose the hue that
    you want to enhance for the B/W conversion. Somewhat like those PS tutorials,
    but without all the adjustment layers and you get to see what color you intend
    to change. One tool that does most of the PS methods, doing the selection right
    from a color palette. Interesting way to do it.


    >Check their freebies page too. There's a free B/W-Works program with some quick
    >B/W presets. Some are fairly well done.
    >
    >http://www.mediachance.com/digicam/bworks.htm
    >
    >They also have their free FilterSIM program, but that doesn't include the B/W
    >option like the one included with their program.
    >
    >
    terrel bardstin, Nov 20, 2008
    #17
  18. tony cooper

    Mark Thomas Guest

    nospam wrote:
    > In article <>, tony cooper
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
    >> techniques?
    >>
    >> (I use Photoshop 7.0)

    >
    > check out russell brown's tutorial videos. here's one using ps7:
    > <http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/ColortoBW.mov>


    That is an excellent approach! I've just adopted it.

    My old way was to go the channels window and examine the RGB channels
    individually to see which ones would give the best result and where, and
    then channel mix + selectively erase bits of layers. Slow but
    reasonably effective - thankfully I don't do much b&w.

    The above method is much more intuitive and more powerful in the way you
    can preview the results as you go and selectively lighten/darken via the
    channels.. cool.

    I'll probably still use the channels window when browsing through images
    and looking for likely conversion candidates, though. It's a very easy
    way to instantly see the image as if it was taken thru Red and Green
    filters (I've not encountered any images where the Blue filtered result
    looked useful, but maybe the day will come..).
    Mark Thomas, Nov 20, 2008
    #18
  19. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:26:34 -0500, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >> Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
    >> effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
    >> messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
    >> offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
    >> need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
    >> as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)

    >
    >You certainly enjoy misconstruing what people say.
    >
    >All I said was "strive for proper exposure in order to not have to
    >rescue the image." and an image with extreme burned out detail is simply
    >not worth rescue. (Unless perhaps you captured the shooter on the grassy
    >knoll).


    Once again you have entered a thread that seems to have captured the
    interest of some of the participants, and spurred some positive and
    constructive comments about various post-processing techniques, to
    whine about how you feel you have been treated.

    It ain't all about you, Alan.

    The door is open for you to offer some insight into how you would go
    about converting an image to black and white. Don't just stand
    outside and look for another parade to rain on.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 20, 2008
    #19
  20. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:36:52 -0500, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:


    >As to this thread as I don't normally do digital B&W I have little to
    >add that others haven't spoken about with more experience than I have to
    >offer.


    Perhaps the thread will induce you to do so. It's a legitimate mode of
    photographic representation.

    Pick up the challenge.

    Your images REO Speedwagon and Butter Churns at Shaker would make
    excellent black and white images. Butter Churns, in my opinion,
    actually looks better in black and white with some adjustments in
    Curves.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 21, 2008
    #20
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