Bigger picture with Nikon D40 (x)

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Sosumi, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. Sosumi

    Sosumi Guest

    I stumbled on a post here in the newsgroup about the Canon 40D problem to
    open the RAW files in Photoshop.
    Someone suggested a program called Photoline 32.
    I thought I´d give it a try, to see if it works with Nikon NEF files, from
    both the D40 and D40x.

    So it did, but what I saw was nothing else then a discovery! The files are
    1,6 - 1.8 percent BIGGER!
    Instead of 3872 x 2572 pixels, you have 3903 x 2616...
    This may not sound like a big deal, but you´re actually missing a peace of
    someone's nose, eye or something else.
    In total for the D40 x 10MP files, you gain almost 175.000 pixels around and
    with the D40 6MP (3039 x 2014 versus 3008 x 2000), it´s still almost 105.000
    pixels more.
    To see how MUCH difference it is, consider this: with the 10 MP file
    difference x 12, you have upgraded to a 12 MP camera.
    Less the 10 times with the 6MP, you´ve got a 7 MP camera!

    Here´s a link of the difference. Pay attention to the left boy, lady´s lip
    down-left and far right-down the nose and hand of the guy.

    The 10.03 MP file:
    http://houses-in-portugal.com/Bored1.jpg

    The 10.21 MP file:

    http://houses-in-portugal.com/Bored.jpg


    Of course I have a lot of questions:
    WHY?
    Are there any other programs that can do this? (Don´t bother with PP and
    ViewNX; they both don´t)
    How is it with other camera´s, models, etc.

    --
    "I don´t need a camera,
    I have a photographic memory..."
    Sosumi
    Sosumi, Nov 12, 2007
    #1
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  2. Sosumi

    reggae-man Guest

    On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:52:03 -0000, "Sosumi" <> wrote:

    >I stumbled on a post here in the newsgroup about the Canon 40D problem to
    >open the RAW files in Photoshop.
    >Someone suggested a program called Photoline 32.
    >I thought I´d give it a try, to see if it works with Nikon NEF files, from
    >both the D40 and D40x.
    >
    >So it did, but what I saw was nothing else then a discovery! The files are
    >1,6 - 1.8 percent BIGGER!


    This is a common finding with anyone using PhotoLine 32 for opening RAW files.
    Often a camera will truncate the RAW data to match the accompanying JPG image
    size. Every camera will have a small discarded border that doesn't appear in the
    JPG. Most of that is used for "control" pixels for internal camera needs. But
    more data than that is often discarded just to keep JPG data on 8 or 16 pixel
    boundaries. The RAW data cropped to match it.

    It's like getting an extra degree out of your wide-angle lens and extra
    resolution -- all for free.

    Send a note to the author of PL32, he always likes finding out which new cameras
    work with his software so he can add them to the supported cameras list. You'd
    be surprised how many cameras I've tested that were never on his list until he
    was alerted to the fact that PL32 works with them.


    >Instead of 3872 x 2572 pixels, you have 3903 x 2616...
    >This may not sound like a big deal, but you´re actually missing a peace of
    >someone's nose, eye or something else.
    >In total for the D40 x 10MP files, you gain almost 175.000 pixels around and
    >with the D40 6MP (3039 x 2014 versus 3008 x 2000), it´s still almost 105.000
    >pixels more.
    >To see how MUCH difference it is, consider this: with the 10 MP file
    >difference x 12, you have upgraded to a 12 MP camera.
    >Less the 10 times with the 6MP, you´ve got a 7 MP camera!
    >
    >Here´s a link of the difference. Pay attention to the left boy, lady´s lip
    >down-left and far right-down the nose and hand of the guy.
    >
    >The 10.03 MP file:
    >http://houses-in-portugal.com/Bored1.jpg
    >
    >The 10.21 MP file:
    >
    >http://houses-in-portugal.com/Bored.jpg
    >
    >
    >Of course I have a lot of questions:
    >WHY?
    >Are there any other programs that can do this? (Don´t bother with PP and
    >ViewNX; they both don´t)
    >How is it with other camera´s, models, etc.
    reggae-man, Nov 12, 2007
    #2
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  3. Sosumi

    OldBoy Guest

    "Sosumi" <> schreef in bericht
    news:...
    >I stumbled on a post here in the newsgroup about the Canon 40D problem to
    >open the RAW files in Photoshop.
    > Someone suggested a program called Photoline 32.
    > I thought I´d give it a try, to see if it works with Nikon NEF files, from
    > both the D40 and D40x.
    >
    > So it did, but what I saw was nothing else then a discovery! The files are
    > 1,6 - 1.8 percent BIGGER!
    > Instead of 3872 x 2572 pixels, you have 3903 x 2616...
    > This may not sound like a big deal, but you´re actually missing a peace of
    > someone's nose, eye or something else.
    > In total for the D40 x 10MP files, you gain almost 175.000 pixels around
    > and with the D40 6MP (3039 x 2014 versus 3008 x 2000), it´s still almost
    > 105.000 pixels more.
    > To see how MUCH difference it is, consider this: with the 10 MP file
    > difference x 12, you have upgraded to a 12 MP camera.
    > Less the 10 times with the 6MP, you´ve got a 7 MP camera!
    >
    > Here´s a link of the difference. Pay attention to the left boy, lady´s lip
    > down-left and far right-down the nose and hand of the guy.
    >
    > The 10.03 MP file:
    > http://houses-in-portugal.com/Bored1.jpg
    >
    > The 10.21 MP file:
    >
    > http://houses-in-portugal.com/Bored.jpg
    >
    >
    > Of course I have a lot of questions:
    > WHY?
    > Are there any other programs that can do this? (Don´t bother with PP and
    > ViewNX; they both don´t)
    > How is it with other camera´s, models, etc.



    Your math is wrong.
    OldBoy, Nov 12, 2007
    #3
  4. Sosumi

    reggae-man Guest

    Some slight corrections, I originally answered this after just waking up and
    wasn't as clear as I should have been.


    On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:32:00 GMT, reggae-man <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:52:03 -0000, "Sosumi" <> wrote:
    >
    >>I stumbled on a post here in the newsgroup about the Canon 40D problem to
    >>open the RAW files in Photoshop.
    >>Someone suggested a program called Photoline 32.
    >>I thought I´d give it a try, to see if it works with Nikon NEF files, from
    >>both the D40 and D40x.
    >>
    >>So it did, but what I saw was nothing else then a discovery! The files are
    >>1,6 - 1.8 percent BIGGER!

    >
    >This is a common finding with anyone using PhotoLine 32 for opening RAW files.
    >Often a camera


    or software for reading that RAW data

    > will truncate the RAW data to match the accompanying JPG image
    >size. Every camera will have a small discarded border that doesn't appear in the
    >JPG. Most of that is used for "control" pixels for internal camera needs.


    And often the RAW software's needs to set black and white points from the RAW
    data for white-balance.

    > But
    >more data than that is often discarded just to keep JPG data on 8 or 16 pixel
    >boundaries. The RAW data cropped to match it.
    >
    >It's like getting an extra degree out of your wide-angle lens and extra
    >resolution -- all for free.


    After buying PL32 that is. Free in the sense that it's in your camera's files
    all this time, but their software robs you of it. Most never realizing they have
    slightly more resolution and wide-angle available than they paid for.

    >
    >Send a note to the author of PL32, he always likes finding out which new cameras
    >work with his software so he can add them to the supported cameras list. You'd
    >be surprised how many cameras I've tested that were never on his list until he
    >was alerted to the fact that PL32 works with them.
    >



    As to another question you had, if any other software does this. Yes, I believe
    DCRAW (a command-line converter) also retains the largest amount of RAW data
    when outputting a TIFF or PPM image format. If you look at DCRAW's source files
    you'll see that RAW pixel-area information listed on a per camera-model basis.

    I recall some other software once that also opened up RAW at full-size,
    including even the boundary with the control-data pixel areas displayed. But I
    don't recall which one at the moment. UFRAW? DNG4PS? I test so many things,
    names and dates get lost in the blur. It might have also been dependent on using
    it with some non-standard RAW formats that were being extracted from a camera at
    the time. Since none of that area actually contained any usable image
    information I wasn't that concerned and only found it mildly interesting.
    Suffice to say it was just a top border of black with a white area. It might
    have even been DCRAW with one of its many command-line arguments that allowed
    for this. Or was it DCRAW's output PPM format that was then read in by PL32? I
    don't recall what allowed seeing it now.
    reggae-man, Nov 12, 2007
    #4
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