\beware cost of Dye Sublimation

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by nesredep egrob, Dec 23, 2004.

  1. OK so I have only been burnt by Canon CP 400 - who want pictures to
    last 100 years or more. Is that the statement to encourage the use of
    a new very expensive process.

    The printer is not too costly but the price of the consumeables are
    sky high - how do you like $ 42 Australian for just 36 postcards -
    alright I printed my own christmas cards just to try it out. The
    results are not too bad but I assure you that the printer will be put
    on the back shelf untill the price comes down. I shall be very careful
    before I buy anything Canon again

    B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp
    nesredep egrob, Dec 23, 2004
    #1
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  2. nesredep egrob

    SamSez Guest

    "nesredep egrob" <Long. -31,48.21 Lat. 115,47.40> wrote in message
    news:...
    > OK so I have only been burnt by Canon CP 400 - who want pictures to
    > last 100 years or more. Is that the statement to encourage the use of
    > a new very expensive process.
    >
    > The printer is not too costly but the price of the consumeables are
    > sky high - how do you like $ 42 Australian for just 36 postcards -
    > alright I printed my own christmas cards just to try it out. The
    > results are not too bad but I assure you that the printer will be put
    > on the back shelf untill the price comes down. I shall be very careful
    > before I buy anything Canon again
    >
    > B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    > If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp


    Burnt by Canon? Did they hide the price of the ribbon/paper kit from you? Or
    maybe they lied to you about the price of the kit? Or maybe you can't divide
    the kit price by 36 to get the per-print price?

    Perhaps you should consider being very careful before you buy anything
    [period]...
    SamSez, Dec 23, 2004
    #2
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  3. nesredep egrob

    Matt Ion Guest

    nesredep egrob wrote:

    > OK so I have only been burnt by Canon CP 400 - who want pictures to
    > last 100 years or more. Is that the statement to encourage the use of
    > a new very expensive process.


    Hmmm, dye-sub is far from a "new" process... the digital-arts school I
    used to work at was printing 8.5x11 photolab-quality student artwork on
    a dye-sub printer nearly 10 years ago, when inkjets weren't even doing
    color yet.

    > The printer is not too costly but the price of the consumeables are
    > sky high - how do you like $ 42 Australian for just 36 postcards -


    And you didn't think to look at the price of consumables BEFORE buying
    the printer? How is this Canon's fault?

    > alright I printed my own christmas cards just to try it out. The
    > results are not too bad but I assure you that the printer will be put
    > on the back shelf untill the price comes down.


    I doubt that will happen anytime soon - as noted, dye-sub has been
    around quite a while and the prices have already dropped significantly
    in the last 10 years, probably already about as low as they'll be for now.

    > I shall be very careful before I buy anything Canon again


    I'd be careful before buying anything, if I were you, since you seem
    incapable of thinking more than about 5 minutes into the future. I bet
    you'd buy a car and then blame that specific manufacturer for the cost
    of gas and oil.

    Just FYI, HP, Kodak, and others also make dye-sub photo printers, and
    their consumables costs are not much different than Canon's. Better be
    careful before buying from them too. Oh, and stay away from inkjets
    altogether... their ink cartridges are so expensive, sometimes it's
    actually cheaper to replace the printer than to replace the ink.
    Matt Ion, Dec 23, 2004
    #3
  4. nesredep egrob

    Ryadia Guest

    "nesredep egrob" <Long. -31,48.21 Lat. 115,47.40> wrote in message
    news:...
    > OK so I have only been burnt by Canon CP 400 - who want pictures to
    > last 100 years or more. Is that the statement to encourage the use of
    > a new very expensive process.
    >
    > The printer is not too costly but the price of the consumeables are
    > sky high - how do you like $ 42 Australian for just 36 postcards -
    > alright I printed my own christmas cards just to try it out. The
    > results are not too bad but I assure you that the printer will be put
    > on the back shelf untill the price comes down. I shall be very careful
    > before I buy anything Canon again
    >
    > B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    > If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp


    Interesting stuff - dye sub. Not in any way shape or form able to handle
    even a drop of water on the surface but quite capable of lasting as long as
    a conventional chemical print. Currently the cheapest for home printing is
    the price fixed Epson PictureMate printer which sells for about the cost of
    a small dye-sub printer. 39¢ per print. Competitive with mini-labs in price
    but not in lifespan. The Canon card printer is a speciality item.

    Incidentally... You position puts you about 300 Klm west of shanghai
    China. What are you doing buying in Aussie bucks when you could be saving
    big yen by buying locally?

    Doug
    Ryadia, Dec 23, 2004
    #4
  5. nesredep egrob

    Steve Wolfe Guest

    > Interesting stuff - dye sub. Not in any way shape or form able to handle
    > even a drop of water on the surface


    That's why a good number of dye-subs lay down an overcoat after the dye,
    and at least some of those overcoats are pretty darn good. I've heard
    reports of people accidentally dipping prints in a cup of hot cofee with no
    ill effects.

    steve
    Steve Wolfe, Dec 23, 2004
    #5
  6. nesredep egrob

    Rudy Benner Guest

    "Ryadia" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "nesredep egrob" <Long. -31,48.21 Lat. 115,47.40> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> OK so I have only been burnt by Canon CP 400 - who want pictures to
    >> last 100 years or more. Is that the statement to encourage the use of
    >> a new very expensive process.
    >>
    >> The printer is not too costly but the price of the consumeables are
    >> sky high - how do you like $ 42 Australian for just 36 postcards -
    >> alright I printed my own christmas cards just to try it out. The
    >> results are not too bad but I assure you that the printer will be put
    >> on the back shelf untill the price comes down. I shall be very careful
    >> before I buy anything Canon again
    >>
    >> B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    >> If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp

    >
    > Interesting stuff - dye sub. Not in any way shape or form able to handle
    > even a drop of water on the surface but quite capable of lasting as long
    > as
    > a conventional chemical print. Currently the cheapest for home printing is
    > the price fixed Epson PictureMate printer which sells for about the cost
    > of
    > a small dye-sub printer. 39¢ per print. Competitive with mini-labs in
    > price
    > but not in lifespan. The Canon card printer is a speciality item.
    >
    > Incidentally... You position puts you about 300 Klm west of shanghai
    > China. What are you doing buying in Aussie bucks when you could be saving
    > big yen by buying locally?
    >
    > Doug
    >
    >


    That is minus 31 not plus. He is north of Perth Australia.
    Rudy Benner, Dec 23, 2004
    #6
  7. nesredep egrob

    MarkH Guest

    "Ryadia" <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    > "nesredep egrob" <Long. -31,48.21 Lat. 115,47.40> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    >> If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp

    >
    > Incidentally... You position puts you about 300 Klm west of shanghai
    > China. What are you doing buying in Aussie bucks when you could be
    > saving big yen by buying locally?


    Assuming that he means Latitude -31°48'21" and Longitude 115°47'40" then he
    is in Perth, Australia.

    Could it be that you assumed the minus sign was a dash and never considered
    you might have assumed incorrectly?



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
    MarkH, Dec 23, 2004
    #7
  8. nesredep egrob

    Travis Guest

    Matt Ion wrote:
    > Hmmm, dye-sub is far from a "new" process... the digital-arts school I
    > used to work at was printing 8.5x11 photolab-quality student artwork
    > on a dye-sub printer nearly 10 years ago, when inkjets weren't even
    > doing
    > color yet.


    Inkjets were doing color 10 years ago.

    --
    Travis in Shoreline Washington
    Uses a Kodak DC4800
    Travis, Dec 23, 2004
    #8
  9. nesredep egrob

    zog Guest

    nesredep egrob wrote:
    > OK so I have only been burnt by Canon CP 400 - who want pictures to
    > last 100 years or more. Is that the statement to encourage the use of
    > a new very expensive process.
    >
    > The printer is not too costly but the price of the consumeables are
    > sky high - how do you like $ 42 Australian for just 36 postcards -
    > alright I printed my own christmas cards just to try it out. The
    > results are not too bad but I assure you that the printer will be put
    > on the back shelf untill the price comes down. I shall be very careful
    > before I buy anything Canon again



    originally I was going to buy a dye sub photoprinter just for 6x4
    prints, because most of the time thats all I need for myself and my
    customers, I repair and restore clocks and it's good to be able to take
    photos during the service, specially if the clock has something
    unusual about it, before and after shots, etc.

    anyway after doing a bit of looking around I was not particularly
    impressed with the lifespan of dye sub prints
    http://www.wilhelm-research.com/4x6/4x6_permanence_preview.html

    so I ended up buying an Epson Picuremate, it uses the epson Ultrachrome
    pigment based inks, lifespan for the photos is 80+years, water and
    smudge resistant, in fact I have tried running the prints under the tap,
    print was unaffected just wiped dry.

    you can buy the photopack which has the 6 colour ink cart and 100 sheets
    of 6x4 paper for around AUS$46, in fact I just bought 2 packs from a
    shop in Sydney for $64, $28each plus postage or $32 per pack or 32cents
    per print.
    zog, Dec 23, 2004
    #9
  10. nesredep egrob

    Matt Ion Guest

    Travis wrote:

    > Matt Ion wrote:
    >
    >> Hmmm, dye-sub is far from a "new" process... the digital-arts school I
    >> used to work at was printing 8.5x11 photolab-quality student artwork
    >> on a dye-sub printer nearly 10 years ago, when inkjets weren't even doing
    >> color yet.

    >
    >
    > Inkjets were doing color 10 years ago.


    Okay, granted... but most were black-only; color ones were hard to come
    by and they were nowhere near photo-quality... certainly nowhere near
    the quality of dye-sub.
    Matt Ion, Dec 23, 2004
    #10
  11. nesredep egrob

    JunkMonkey Guest

    Dye sublimation is just a new name for Thermal transfer printers. Remember
    the early color Apple writers and the Okidata Okimate 10 & 20 printers?
    Dye sublimation has ALWAYS been expensive and it probably always will be
    expensive regardless of manufacturer. Didn't you do any research on costs
    before you bought? This isn't Canon's problem.


    "nesredep egrob" <Long. -31,48.21 Lat. 115,47.40> wrote in message
    news:...
    > OK so I have only been burnt by Canon CP 400 - who want pictures to
    > last 100 years or more. Is that the statement to encourage the use of
    > a new very expensive process.
    >
    > The printer is not too costly but the price of the consumeables are
    > sky high - how do you like $ 42 Australian for just 36 postcards -
    > alright I printed my own christmas cards just to try it out. The
    > results are not too bad but I assure you that the printer will be put
    > on the back shelf untill the price comes down. I shall be very careful
    > before I buy anything Canon again
    >
    > B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    > If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp
    JunkMonkey, Dec 23, 2004
    #11
  12. nesredep egrob

    MarkH Guest

    Matt Ion <> wrote in
    news:UOHyd.572865$%k.305473@pd7tw2no:

    > Travis wrote:
    >
    >> Matt Ion wrote:
    >>
    >>> Hmmm, dye-sub is far from a "new" process... the digital-arts school
    >>> I used to work at was printing 8.5x11 photolab-quality student
    >>> artwork on a dye-sub printer nearly 10 years ago, when inkjets
    >>> weren't even doing color yet.

    >>
    >>
    >> Inkjets were doing color 10 years ago.

    >
    > Okay, granted... but most were black-only; color ones were hard to
    > come by and they were nowhere near photo-quality... certainly nowhere
    > near the quality of dye-sub.


    Quality: I agree.

    Hard to come by? Hardly, they were readily available. HP did the 500C and
    the 560C (or was it 550C?). The 500C was horrible, you had to swap between
    the black cartridge and the tri-colour cartridge. The dearer one had both
    black and tri-colour cartridges at the same time. As far as I can recall
    Epson and Canon and other manufacturers also did colour inkjets.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
    MarkH, Dec 24, 2004
    #12
  13. nesredep egrob

    Ryadia Guest

    "Steve Wolfe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > Interesting stuff - dye sub. Not in any way shape or form able to handle
    > > even a drop of water on the surface

    >
    > That's why a good number of dye-subs lay down an overcoat after the dye,
    > and at least some of those overcoats are pretty darn good. I've heard
    > reports of people accidentally dipping prints in a cup of hot cofee with

    no
    > ill effects.
    >
    > steve
    >

    Yeah... Bloody sharp pictures , those donuts!
    Ryadia, Dec 24, 2004
    #13
  14. nesredep egrob

    Ryadia Guest


    > > Incidentally... You position puts you about 300 Klm west of shanghai
    > > China. What are you doing buying in Aussie bucks when you could be

    saving
    > > big yen by buying locally?
    > >
    > > Doug
    > >
    > >

    >
    > That is minus 31 not plus. He is north of Perth Australia.
    >

    Oh well... That's why I have GPS! Dyslexic too!
    Ryadia, Dec 24, 2004
    #14
  15. nesredep egrob

    Darrell Guest

    I like the Epson Picture Maker. The ink and 100 sheets of 4x6" paper is CDN
    $40, so 40¢ per print. I always tell the per print cost when ever I sell any
    of these printers.

    "nesredep egrob" <Long. -31,48.21 Lat. 115,47.40> wrote in message
    news:...
    > OK so I have only been burnt by Canon CP 400 - who want pictures to
    > last 100 years or more. Is that the statement to encourage the use of
    > a new very expensive process.
    >
    > The printer is not too costly but the price of the consumeables are
    > sky high - how do you like $ 42 Australian for just 36 postcards -
    > alright I printed my own christmas cards just to try it out. The
    > results are not too bad but I assure you that the printer will be put
    > on the back shelf untill the price comes down. I shall be very careful
    > before I buy anything Canon again
    >
    > B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    > If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp
    Darrell, Dec 24, 2004
    #15
  16. On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:36:08 GMT, "SamSez" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"nesredep egrob" <Long. -31,48.21 Lat. 115,47.40> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> OK so I have only been burnt by Canon CP 400 - who want pictures to
    >> last 100 years or more. Is that the statement to encourage the use of
    >> a new very expensive process.
    >>
    >> The printer is not too costly but the price of the consumeables are
    >> sky high - how do you like $ 42 Australian for just 36 postcards -
    >> alright I printed my own christmas cards just to try it out. The
    >> results are not too bad but I assure you that the printer will be put
    >> on the back shelf untill the price comes down. I shall be very careful
    >> before I buy anything Canon again
    >>
    >> B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    >> If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp

    >
    >Burnt by Canon? Did they hide the price of the ribbon/paper kit from you? Or
    >maybe they lied to you about the price of the kit? Or maybe you can't divide
    >the kit price by 36 to get the per-print price?
    >
    >Perhaps you should consider being very careful before you buy anything
    >[period]...
    >
    >
    >

    True, true , true. Just like I did not look at the cost of using my
    hasselblad and the darkroom. I found that the cost of chemicals and
    paper was 3 times the cost of the same items in UK. I expected that
    we should have consumeables on par with the cost of prints from shops
    but once again we are cheated.

    Just as people in those days were charging as much as $ 20-25 for
    developing a roll of film. Nice to see with the arrival of digitals
    they have now comes as cheap as $ 7.50 and that is with the aussie
    dollar being readjusted in value from what it was in 1982.

    I am happily back from Shanghai again - it was cold there coming from
    about 38 centigrade in the shade here in Perth.

    B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp
    nesredep egrob, Dec 24, 2004
    #16
  17. > True, true , true. Just like I did not look at the cost of using my
    > hasselblad and the darkroom. I found that the cost of chemicals and
    > paper was 3 times the cost of the same items in UK. I expected that
    > we should have consumeables on par with the cost of prints from shops
    > but once again we are cheated.


    You keep saying you were cheated...nope...not so. All costs were
    public...and readers here often read warnings that its more expensive to
    print at home than to send out to an on-line printer. You did what you
    wanted to do. Look, If you had gone to a class in your local college you
    might have learned that printing at home is expensive and that the consumer
    business model is to sell the printer cheap and the inks dear. So, the price
    of learning on your own is about the same as taking a course. You always pay
    for an education. Its hard to know who to believe in a newsgroup but I bet
    that if you had asked here first you would never have bought a photo
    printer. (Oh....I do have a couple of them. One given to me that I don't use
    as the price of consumables is too high, and an Epson 2200 where the quality
    is so high that I don't mind the cost.
    Gene Palmiter, Dec 24, 2004
    #17
  18. On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:32:30 GMT, "Gene Palmiter"
    <> wrote:

    >> True, true , true. Just like I did not look at the cost of using my
    >> hasselblad and the darkroom. I found that the cost of chemicals and
    >> paper was 3 times the cost of the same items in UK. I expected that
    >> we should have consumeables on par with the cost of prints from shops
    >> but once again we are cheated.

    >
    >You keep saying you were cheated...nope...not so. All costs were
    >public...and readers here often read warnings that its more expensive to
    >print at home than to send out to an on-line printer. You did what you
    >wanted to do. Look, If you had gone to a class in your local college you
    >might have learned that printing at home is expensive and that the consumer
    >business model is to sell the printer cheap and the inks dear. So, the price
    >of learning on your own is about the same as taking a course. You always pay
    >for an education. Its hard to know who to believe in a newsgroup but I bet
    >that if you had asked here first you would never have bought a photo
    >printer. (Oh....I do have a couple of them. One given to me that I don't use
    >as the price of consumables is too high, and an Epson 2200 where the quality
    >is so high that I don't mind the cost.
    >

    I see what you are writing - it was meant more as a general warning to
    others rather than a winge - but as I put it elsewhere - I have packed
    up the hasselblad because of the cost of paper and chemicals and of
    course the inconvenince of a darkroom. The cost here in Australia 1982
    was terrific against the cost in UK. Also the cost of printing here
    was a massive $ 20, which has now come down because of digital. It
    shows that they will charge whatever highest price they can possibly
    obtain.

    The more winges or moans and warnings they see and the prices might
    just come down to the sort of price we pay for the professional
    printing which apart form the cost of materials and depreciation of
    capital gear has a profit involved also. I hope it makes sense to most
    people - as long as we put up with the high prices, they will stay
    high.

    B.Pedersen Latitude -31,48.21 Longitude115,47.40 Time=GMT+8.00
    If you are curious look here http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp
    nesredep egrob, Dec 25, 2004
    #18
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