Best to scan in 48 Bit HDR? Or use 48 Bit + modify during scan?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by NewScanner, Jan 13, 2007.

  1. NewScanner

    NewScanner Guest

    Hello. I am new to scanning and trying to understand the best workflow
    to scan and edit photos. I've read a *lot* on the web and have become
    more and more confused.

    My question is:
    I already have SilverFast Ai, but do not intend to use SilverFast HDR.
    Is it best to scan images in 48 Bit HDR Color and then do the
    processing with Aperture (I already have a copy) or Photoshop (don't
    have a copy yet) later? Or should I really be using SilverFast HDR?

    I am having a really really tough time figuring out what workflow I
    should be using which will give me the most flexibility - darn
    confusing stuff to a new scanner. I'm sure I'll get it eventually!!

    New to scanning, I am guessing that scanning in a HDR format will allow
    me to retain as much information from the original scan as possible,
    and then have the flexibility to modify the file as I wish later on (or
    leave the editing to someone else). For some reason HDR seems like a
    better idea than scanning in at 48 Bit Color, with corrections made
    during the scanning process, which seems would result in the loss of
    some information that later I may wish I had. I don't know if that is
    true or not, however. Additionally, I would prefer to scan all my
    photos in now (without spending a lot of time manipulating the images),
    though I may not use all the files in the future.

    Thank you.

    P.S. Oh - I should add that the resulting scans (using the 48 Bit HDR
    Color setting) look so dark that it still blows my mind that I will be
    able to make as many edits to the image as I would if simply using 48
    Bit Color and adjusting the image as I go...
    NewScanner, Jan 13, 2007
    #1
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  2. NewScanner wrote:
    > Hello. I am new to scanning and trying to understand the best workflow
    > to scan and edit photos. I've read a *lot* on the web and have become
    > more and more confused.
    >
    > My question is:
    > I already have SilverFast Ai, but do not intend to use SilverFast HDR.
    > Is it best to scan images in 48 Bit HDR Color and then do the
    > processing with Aperture (I already have a copy) or Photoshop (don't
    > have a copy yet) later? Or should I really be using SilverFast HDR?
    >
    > I am having a really really tough time figuring out what workflow I
    > should be using which will give me the most flexibility - darn
    > confusing stuff to a new scanner. I'm sure I'll get it eventually!!
    >
    > New to scanning, I am guessing that scanning in a HDR format will
    > allow me to retain as much information from the original scan as
    > possible, and then have the flexibility to modify the file as I wish
    > later on (or leave the editing to someone else). For some reason HDR
    > seems like a better idea than scanning in at 48 Bit Color, with
    > corrections made during the scanning process, which seems would
    > result in the loss of some information that later I may wish I had. I
    > don't know if that is true or not, however. Additionally, I would
    > prefer to scan all my photos in now (without spending a lot of time
    > manipulating the images), though I may not use all the files in the
    > future.
    >
    > Thank you.
    >
    > P.S. Oh - I should add that the resulting scans (using the 48 Bit HDR
    > Color setting) look so dark that it still blows my mind that I will be
    > able to make as many edits to the image as I would if simply using 48
    > Bit Color and adjusting the image as I go...


    I personally use Silverfast during scanning to get the best possible scan
    and save it to disk. I then use Photoshop CS2 to finally tweak the image.
    Dennis Pogson, Jan 13, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. NewScanner

    CSM1 Guest

    "NewScanner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello. I am new to scanning and trying to understand the best workflow
    > to scan and edit photos. I've read a *lot* on the web and have become
    > more and more confused.
    >
    > My question is:
    > I already have SilverFast Ai, but do not intend to use SilverFast HDR.
    > Is it best to scan images in 48 Bit HDR Color and then do the
    > processing with Aperture (I already have a copy) or Photoshop (don't
    > have a copy yet) later? Or should I really be using SilverFast HDR?
    >
    > I am having a really really tough time figuring out what workflow I
    > should be using which will give me the most flexibility - darn
    > confusing stuff to a new scanner. I'm sure I'll get it eventually!!
    >
    > New to scanning, I am guessing that scanning in a HDR format will allow
    > me to retain as much information from the original scan as possible,
    > and then have the flexibility to modify the file as I wish later on (or
    > leave the editing to someone else). For some reason HDR seems like a
    > better idea than scanning in at 48 Bit Color, with corrections made
    > during the scanning process, which seems would result in the loss of
    > some information that later I may wish I had. I don't know if that is
    > true or not, however. Additionally, I would prefer to scan all my
    > photos in now (without spending a lot of time manipulating the images),
    > though I may not use all the files in the future.
    >
    > Thank you.
    >
    > P.S. Oh - I should add that the resulting scans (using the 48 Bit HDR
    > Color setting) look so dark that it still blows my mind that I will be
    > able to make as many edits to the image as I would if simply using 48
    > Bit Color and adjusting the image as I go...
    >


    To learn about scanning and how to's go to:
    http://www.scantips.com/

    --
    CSM1
    http://www.carlmcmillan.com
    --
    CSM1, Jan 13, 2007
    #3
  4. NewScanner

    degrub Guest

    Set the box gamma for HDR to bring up the mid tones. Otherwise, use
    curves in whatever application to do the same thing.

    output for HDR is a "raw scan", but you still need to check the exposure
    and possibly set the white and black point to use the most of your
    scanners dynamic range and capture as many tones as possible.


    NewScanner wrote:
    > Hello. I am new to scanning and trying to understand the best workflow
    > to scan and edit photos. I've read a *lot* on the web and have become
    > more and more confused.
    >
    > My question is:
    > I already have SilverFast Ai, but do not intend to use SilverFast HDR.
    > Is it best to scan images in 48 Bit HDR Color and then do the
    > processing with Aperture (I already have a copy) or Photoshop (don't
    > have a copy yet) later? Or should I really be using SilverFast HDR?
    >
    > I am having a really really tough time figuring out what workflow I
    > should be using which will give me the most flexibility - darn
    > confusing stuff to a new scanner. I'm sure I'll get it eventually!!
    >
    > New to scanning, I am guessing that scanning in a HDR format will allow
    > me to retain as much information from the original scan as possible,
    > and then have the flexibility to modify the file as I wish later on (or
    > leave the editing to someone else). For some reason HDR seems like a
    > better idea than scanning in at 48 Bit Color, with corrections made
    > during the scanning process, which seems would result in the loss of
    > some information that later I may wish I had. I don't know if that is
    > true or not, however. Additionally, I would prefer to scan all my
    > photos in now (without spending a lot of time manipulating the images),
    > though I may not use all the files in the future.
    >
    > Thank you.
    >
    > P.S. Oh - I should add that the resulting scans (using the 48 Bit HDR
    > Color setting) look so dark that it still blows my mind that I will be
    > able to make as many edits to the image as I would if simply using 48
    > Bit Color and adjusting the image as I go...
    >
    degrub, Jan 13, 2007
    #4
  5. NewScanner

    NewScanner Guest

    As you mention - is it required that I bring up the mid-tones (I
    presume this is why it looks so dark when I scan) from within
    SilverFast? Or if I just wish to scan quickly, I can always leave that
    for later work.

    It sounds like checking the exposure from within SilverFast is
    mandatory to get the full range, and that I couldn't just assume the
    scanner gets it right and I can correct the exposure from within
    another application. Is that right?

    degrub wrote:
    > Set the box gamma for HDR to bring up the mid tones. Otherwise, use
    > curves in whatever application to do the same thing.
    >
    > output for HDR is a "raw scan", but you still need to check the exposure
    > and possibly set the white and black point to use the most of your
    > scanners dynamic range and capture as many tones as possible.
    >
    >
    > NewScanner wrote:
    > > Hello. I am new to scanning and trying to understand the best workflow
    > > to scan and edit photos. I've read a *lot* on the web and have become
    > > more and more confused.
    > >
    > > My question is:
    > > I already have SilverFast Ai, but do not intend to use SilverFast HDR.
    > > Is it best to scan images in 48 Bit HDR Color and then do the
    > > processing with Aperture (I already have a copy) or Photoshop (don't
    > > have a copy yet) later? Or should I really be using SilverFast HDR?
    > >
    > > I am having a really really tough time figuring out what workflow I
    > > should be using which will give me the most flexibility - darn
    > > confusing stuff to a new scanner. I'm sure I'll get it eventually!!
    > >
    > > New to scanning, I am guessing that scanning in a HDR format will allow
    > > me to retain as much information from the original scan as possible,
    > > and then have the flexibility to modify the file as I wish later on (or
    > > leave the editing to someone else). For some reason HDR seems like a
    > > better idea than scanning in at 48 Bit Color, with corrections made
    > > during the scanning process, which seems would result in the loss of
    > > some information that later I may wish I had. I don't know if that is
    > > true or not, however. Additionally, I would prefer to scan all my
    > > photos in now (without spending a lot of time manipulating the images),
    > > though I may not use all the files in the future.
    > >
    > > Thank you.
    > >
    > > P.S. Oh - I should add that the resulting scans (using the 48 Bit HDR
    > > Color setting) look so dark that it still blows my mind that I will be
    > > able to make as many edits to the image as I would if simply using 48
    > > Bit Color and adjusting the image as I go...
    > >
    NewScanner, Jan 14, 2007
    #5
  6. NewScanner

    degrub Guest

    i have not checked to see if when i check "gamma for HDR " and set a
    value other than 1, that PS or other apps actually can use it. i use a
    HDR workflow, so i have never tried it that way. Certainly, there is no
    issue applying a curve later after the raw scan.

    Depends on how picky you are - there is no "correct" answer, only
    different approaches. i have done it both ways - sometimes rescanning
    when i was not happy with the auto results.

    i have always been happier with images i manually scanned for final
    quality, it just takes longer. On the other hand, for most images i can
    batch scan and accept the auto setting and move on. Depends on what you
    are happy with.



    NewScanner wrote:
    > As you mention - is it required that I bring up the mid-tones (I
    > presume this is why it looks so dark when I scan) from within
    > SilverFast? Or if I just wish to scan quickly, I can always leave that
    > for later work.
    >
    > It sounds like checking the exposure from within SilverFast is
    > mandatory to get the full range, and that I couldn't just assume the
    > scanner gets it right and I can correct the exposure from within
    > another application. Is that right?
    >
    > degrub wrote:
    >
    >>Set the box gamma for HDR to bring up the mid tones. Otherwise, use
    >>curves in whatever application to do the same thing.
    >>
    >>output for HDR is a "raw scan", but you still need to check the exposure
    >>and possibly set the white and black point to use the most of your
    >>scanners dynamic range and capture as many tones as possible.
    >>
    >>
    >>NewScanner wrote:
    >>
    >>>Hello. I am new to scanning and trying to understand the best workflow
    >>>to scan and edit photos. I've read a *lot* on the web and have become
    >>>more and more confused.
    >>>
    >>>My question is:
    >>>I already have SilverFast Ai, but do not intend to use SilverFast HDR.
    >>>Is it best to scan images in 48 Bit HDR Color and then do the
    >>>processing with Aperture (I already have a copy) or Photoshop (don't
    >>>have a copy yet) later? Or should I really be using SilverFast HDR?
    >>>
    >>>I am having a really really tough time figuring out what workflow I
    >>>should be using which will give me the most flexibility - darn
    >>>confusing stuff to a new scanner. I'm sure I'll get it eventually!!
    >>>
    >>>New to scanning, I am guessing that scanning in a HDR format will allow
    >>>me to retain as much information from the original scan as possible,
    >>>and then have the flexibility to modify the file as I wish later on (or
    >>>leave the editing to someone else). For some reason HDR seems like a
    >>>better idea than scanning in at 48 Bit Color, with corrections made
    >>>during the scanning process, which seems would result in the loss of
    >>>some information that later I may wish I had. I don't know if that is
    >>>true or not, however. Additionally, I would prefer to scan all my
    >>>photos in now (without spending a lot of time manipulating the images),
    >>>though I may not use all the files in the future.
    >>>
    >>>Thank you.
    >>>
    >>>P.S. Oh - I should add that the resulting scans (using the 48 Bit HDR
    >>>Color setting) look so dark that it still blows my mind that I will be
    >>>able to make as many edits to the image as I would if simply using 48
    >>>Bit Color and adjusting the image as I go...
    >>>

    >
    >
    degrub, Jan 15, 2007
    #6
  7. NewScanner

    Annika1980 Guest

    NewScanner wrote:
    > My question is:
    > I already have SilverFast Ai, but do not intend to use SilverFast HDR.
    > Is it best to scan images in 48 Bit HDR Color and then do the
    > processing with Aperture (I already have a copy) or Photoshop (don't
    > have a copy yet) later? Or should I really be using SilverFast HDR?


    If you do not have Silverfast HDR (or DCPro) you do not want to scan in
    48 Bit HDR Color mode.
    This will just give you a dark scan that you'll have a heckuva time
    trying to get right in Photoshop.
    The setting you want to use is "48 Bit Colour."

    The Silverfast HDR program is great if you want to do batch scanning
    and correct the pics later.
    Of course, you can still do simple batch scanning with Silverfast Ai,
    but you'll be stuck with whatever settings you have chosen for that
    batch.

    I can get great results with Silverfast Ai and my Minolta Scan Elite
    5400, but it is slower than molasses and very tedious work.
    Annika1980, Jan 15, 2007
    #7
  8. NewScanner

    NewScanner Guest

    I forgot to ask. Do you (when doing 48 bit color, not 48 bit HDR) use
    the histogram and then select the shadow point and highlight point (the
    triangles on the far left and right of the histogram), or do you use
    the Highlight-Shadow-Tool (the 2nd icon from the right in the main
    SIlverFast box, where you select white and black points.

    I've heard both mentioned on the internet and am wondering your
    opinion.

    degrub wrote:
    > Set the box gamma for HDR to bring up the mid tones. Otherwise, use
    > curves in whatever application to do the same thing.
    >
    > output for HDR is a "raw scan", but you still need to check the exposure
    > and possibly set the white and black point to use the most of your
    > scanners dynamic range and capture as many tones as possible.
    NewScanner, Jan 15, 2007
    #8
  9. NewScanner

    Annika1980 Guest

    Just this week I was faced with a very difficult scanning assignment.
    This one particular slide was almost totally red. I figured I'd just
    fix it in Photoshop, but I could not get an acceptable result that way.
    Only the Red channel was usable.

    So I rescanned it using Silverfast's "48 Bit HDR Colour" mode and then
    used DCPro to get a usable pic. I only have the Demo version of DCPro
    which puts little watermarks all over the pic, so I had to make
    multiple scans and mask out the watermarks.

    Here is the scan in question.
    http://www.pbase.com/image/73093698

    The image on the left is the original scan without adjustments.
    The image in the center was the version I settled on.
    The image on the right was my "artsy-fartsy" version.
    Annika1980, Jan 15, 2007
    #9
  10. NewScanner

    NewScanner Guest

    One more question to tack on to my last -
    if scanning as TIFF using 48 bit HDR, am I going to "lose" any
    information that is not recoverable from another application later on
    (eg Photoshop) if I only select the white and black points (or select
    the left and right "end" points of the histogram, I assume it is an
    either/or choice).
    NewScanner, Jan 16, 2007
    #10
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