Being seconded o/seas... remuneration

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Adam Cameron, Sep 27, 2004.

  1. Adam Cameron

    Adam Cameron Guest

    G'day.
    Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?

    If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for the
    fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    currencies?

    And what about accommodation and daily expenses?

    I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.

    Adam
     
    Adam Cameron, Sep 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. Adam Cameron

    EMB Guest

    Adam Cameron wrote:
    > G'day.
    > Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >
    > If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for the
    > fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    > currencies?


    I did a 20 week overseas work stint a few years ago. I got my normal
    salary and a daily allowance for being away. I negotiated a pretty good
    rate that covered all my extra expenses at home (like paying someone to
    mow the lawns)and let me do a bit of sightseeing during the weekends
    without having to touch my normal salary.

    > And what about accommodation and daily expenses?


    Accomodation, insurance and a vehicle were paid for by the company,
    general daily living expenses (like food and so forth) came out of the
    above-mentioned allowance (and were thus my problem) and extra expenses
    went on my company credit card. They paid a fair bit for shipping some
    of my effects with me and getting them home afterwards. They also
    stumped up for a phone call home every day and a trip home every 6 weeks.

    --
    EMB
    change two to the number to reply
     
    EMB, Sep 27, 2004
    #2
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  3. Adam Cameron

    Harry Guest

    Adam Cameron wrote:

    > G'day.
    > Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >
    > If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for
    > the fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    > currencies?
    >
    > And what about accommodation and daily expenses?
    >
    > I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.


    You should get a daily tax-free allowance of at least $60 for food,
    and free accomodation or reimbursement for what you have to pay.
     
    Harry, Sep 27, 2004
    #3
  4. Adam Cameron

    thing Guest

    EMB wrote:
    > Adam Cameron wrote:
    >
    >> G'day.
    >> Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >>
    >> If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater
    >> for the
    >> fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    >> currencies?

    >
    >
    > I did a 20 week overseas work stint a few years ago. I got my normal
    > salary and a daily allowance for being away. I negotiated a pretty good
    > rate that covered all my extra expenses at home (like paying someone to
    > mow the lawns)and let me do a bit of sightseeing during the weekends
    > without having to touch my normal salary.
    >
    >> And what about accommodation and daily expenses?

    >
    >
    > Accomodation, insurance and a vehicle were paid for by the company,
    > general daily living expenses (like food and so forth) came out of the
    > above-mentioned allowance (and were thus my problem) and extra expenses
    > went on my company credit card. They paid a fair bit for shipping some
    > of my effects with me and getting them home afterwards. They also
    > stumped up for a phone call home every day and a trip home every 6 weeks.
    >


    Sounds like a good deal. The last company I worked for had a policy of
    inviting you to go with no extra money as "the experience was good for
    you". They did put you up in a self contained flat but you had to do all
    your stuff, just great if you expected to work 14 hours a day 6 or 7
    days a week then have to come home and cook food. Usually any such
    "offers" were only put out when the contract/deal was all but lost,
    hence after the first one of our group got shafted, we were well wise
    enough to ask some tough questions at which point nice little details
    emerged like being expected "to work the hours as needed" translates to
    "this is a 6 month project we are starting 3 months late so you will
    work 7 days a week, 12 to 14 hours a day, Oh and we budgeted for 3 staff
    but the budget was cut to win the job......so there is you.

    Sightseeing? only if someone decided there are 8 day weeks. Which
    reminds me, one job was going to a country that habitially worked 6 days
    a week, Saturday was a working day. So "you will work alongside the
    locals in normal hours in local terms" means a 6 days a week job and
    remember no extra money.

    Then there are the smarmy sales execs who keep turning up "to see how it
    is going" read in "my bonus rides on you working your butt off so get to
    it" the pep talks about commitment and time lines and customer needs are
    getting nausiating......

    I think the key is "a few years ago" the question is now, today, would
    you get the same deal? if so then this suggests an employer worth
    sticking with.

    I have presented the nasty side of overseas trips, but they can be good
    and enjoyable. What you need to do is go in with your eyes open and be
    prepared look out for the asshole trying to shaft you, so check all the
    details and how the deal is presented to you and dont rush into it,
    think it over.

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing, Sep 27, 2004
    #4
  5. Adam Cameron

    thing Guest

    Harry wrote:
    > Adam Cameron wrote:
    >
    >
    >>G'day.
    >>Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >>
    >>If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for
    >>the fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    >>currencies?
    >>
    >>And what about accommodation and daily expenses?
    >>
    >>I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.

    >
    >
    > You should get a daily tax-free allowance of at least $60 for food,
    > and free accomodation or reimbursement for what you have to pay.
    >


    Better to have them pay up front for accomodation etc, the less you have
    on your plastic the better off you are.

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing, Sep 27, 2004
    #5
  6. Adam Cameron

    Collector-NZ Guest

    EMB said the following on 27/09/2004 11:43:
    > Adam Cameron wrote:
    >
    >> G'day.
    >> Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >>
    >> If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater
    >> for the
    >> fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    >> currencies?

    >
    >
    > I did a 20 week overseas work stint a few years ago. I got my normal
    > salary and a daily allowance for being away. I negotiated a pretty good
    > rate that covered all my extra expenses at home (like paying someone to
    > mow the lawns)and let me do a bit of sightseeing during the weekends
    > without having to touch my normal salary.
    >
    >> And what about accommodation and daily expenses?

    >
    >
    > Accomodation, insurance and a vehicle were paid for by the company,
    > general daily living expenses (like food and so forth) came out of the
    > above-mentioned allowance (and were thus my problem) and extra expenses
    > went on my company credit card. They paid a fair bit for shipping some
    > of my effects with me and getting them home afterwards. They also
    > stumped up for a phone call home every day and a trip home every 6 weeks.
    >

    I have done a number of OS trips, trouble was they where Govt trips so
    just a measly country dif allowance.

    I got asked to take a job in a country for 5 months, it all looked good,
    money excellent and accomodation provided etc etc, when I was reviewing
    the contract documents before signing a little list of supplied personal
    iteams caught my eye, among the goodies they gave us was a "Bullet Proof
    Vest". Now this country had had a few internal issue and a few tourists
    had been shot as they got caught up in local riots, but it made me think
    a little harder about it. (I did do the job but on a four weekly
    rotation with another consultant)
     
    Collector-NZ, Sep 27, 2004
    #6
  7. In nz.general Adam Cameron <> wrote:
    > G'day.
    > Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?


    > If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for the
    > fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    > currencies?


    > And what about accommodation and daily expenses?


    When I was in a similar situation I had my normal salary plus a cost of
    living allowance paid. Accommodation, utilities & car were provided by the
    company, I had only had to pay for food, fuel for the car & entertainment.

    Naturally you'd expect the company to cover travel plus removal expenses.
    Make sure that any cost of living allowance is an amount in the host
    countries currency, with taxes and any transfer expenses paid. You don't
    want to suddenly find you are getting less money because of currency
    fluctuations.

    You should also be provided with medical insurance. Look at that carefully
    and ensure it covers your whole family & includes doctors visits. Make sure
    it will pay out immediately, not just when you return to NZ.

    --
    Burn the land and boil the sea,
    You can't take the sky from me.
     
    Geoff McCaughan, Sep 27, 2004
    #7
  8. Adam Cameron

    Harry Guest

    thing wrote:

    > Harry wrote:
    >> Adam Cameron wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>G'day.
    >>>Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >>>
    >>>If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for
    >>>the fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    >>>currencies?
    >>>
    >>>And what about accommodation and daily expenses?
    >>>
    >>>I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.

    >>
    >>
    >> You should get a daily tax-free allowance of at least $60 for food,
    >> and free accomodation or reimbursement for what you have to pay.
    >>

    >
    > Better to have them pay up front for accomodation etc, the less you have
    > on your plastic the better off you are.
    >


    You can be reimbursed for all those expenses tax free.
    It doesn't matter who pays the bill.
     
    Harry, Sep 27, 2004
    #8
  9. Adam Cameron

    thing Guest

    Harry wrote:
    > thing wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Harry wrote:
    >>
    >>>Adam Cameron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>G'day.
    >>>>Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >>>>
    >>>>If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for
    >>>>the fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    >>>>currencies?
    >>>>
    >>>>And what about accommodation and daily expenses?
    >>>>
    >>>>I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>You should get a daily tax-free allowance of at least $60 for food,
    >>>and free accomodation or reimbursement for what you have to pay.
    >>>

    >>
    >>Better to have them pay up front for accomodation etc, the less you have
    >>on your plastic the better off you are.
    >>

    >
    >
    > You can be reimbursed for all those expenses tax free.
    > It doesn't matter who pays the bill.
    >


    cash flow....if the company is late paying, you could be arguing over
    who pays the Interest......

    So called corporate Visas are from what I have seen in the terms and
    conditions are at your risk and not the company's.

    regards

    thing
     
    thing, Sep 27, 2004
    #9
  10. Adam Cameron

    Harry Guest

    thing wrote:

    > Harry wrote:
    >> thing wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Harry wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Adam Cameron wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>G'day.
    >>>>>Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for
    >>>>>the fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    >>>>>currencies?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>And what about accommodation and daily expenses?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>You should get a daily tax-free allowance of at least $60 for food,
    >>>>and free accomodation or reimbursement for what you have to pay.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>Better to have them pay up front for accomodation etc, the less you have
    >>>on your plastic the better off you are.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> You can be reimbursed for all those expenses tax free.
    >> It doesn't matter who pays the bill.
    >>

    >
    > cash flow....if the company is late paying, you could be arguing over
    > who pays the Interest......
    >
    > So called corporate Visas are from what I have seen in the terms and
    > conditions are at your risk and not the company's.
    >


    They are mostly debit cards and have no actual credit facility.
    They are automatically paid from company account every month.
    So they are therefore a liability of the company.
    Moreover they have limits so it isn't exactly possible to spend
    too much on them either.

    But in any case if you pay on your personal card or by cash you can
    get reimbursed in cash tax-free. Your credit card free period will
    easily stretch until you are reimbused. If not you have the wrong card!
     
    Harry, Sep 27, 2004
    #10
  11. Adam Cameron

    EMB Guest

    thing wrote:

    >
    > Sounds like a good deal. The last company I worked for had a policy of
    > inviting you to go with no extra money as "the experience was good for
    > you". They did put you up in a self contained flat but you had to do all
    > your stuff, just great if you expected to work 14 hours a day 6 or 7
    > days a week then have to come home and cook food. Usually any such
    > "offers" were only put out when the contract/deal was all but lost,
    > hence after the first one of our group got shafted, we were well wise
    > enough to ask some tough questions at which point nice little details
    > emerged like being expected "to work the hours as needed" translates to
    > "this is a 6 month project we are starting 3 months late so you will
    > work 7 days a week, 12 to 14 hours a day, Oh and we budgeted for 3 staff
    > but the budget was cut to win the job......so there is you.


    I worked about 60 hours most weeks, as was agreed in advance and much as
    I had in NZ for the last few months before going overseas. Being away
    from my family it wasn't too hard to do that over 5 days and have the
    weekends off although when things dropped behind timetable a bit I
    worked 21 days straight but go time-in-lieu added to my leave allowance
    when I got home.
    >
    > I think the key is "a few years ago" the question is now, today, would
    > you get the same deal? if so then this suggests an employer worth
    > sticking with.


    The same sort of deal is definitely still out there. One of the guys
    who worked with me on that job has a similar agreement with his present
    employers and is likely to spend most of 2005 away on a *very* good
    deal. If I didn't have so many family committments now I'd seriously
    consider joining him on that job.

    Another friend of mine (earning wages in the hands-on end of the
    engineering industry) is currently getting vehicle and accomodation,
    find your own food, between US$40 - 60/day (depending on country) and a
    flight home every 3 months. Being on wages he gets penal rates for
    everything over his normal 44 hours a week too. Last year he earned
    about $70K in wages and another $20K in tax free allowances. He's
    trying to wangle a larger (tax-free) daily allowance and a non-penal
    overtime rate as it will leave him paying less tax.


    --
    EMB
    change two to the number to reply
     
    EMB, Sep 27, 2004
    #11
  12. Adam Cameron

    EMB Guest

    thing wrote:

    > cash flow....if the company is late paying, you could be arguing over
    > who pays the Interest......
    >
    > So called corporate Visas are from what I have seen in the terms and
    > conditions are at your risk and not the company's.


    I know corporate Amex are at your own risk - when my wife's employers
    had an accounts department meltdown and didn't pay her corporate card
    Amex got quite shitty directly at us even though it was only a couple of
    hundred dollars. We ended up paying it ourselves before Amex added any
    interest and claimed it back later.

    --
    EMB
    change two to the number to reply
     
    EMB, Sep 27, 2004
    #12
  13. Adam Cameron

    Bok Guest

    EMB wrote:
    > I know corporate Amex are at your own risk - when my wife's employers
    > had an accounts department meltdown and didn't pay her corporate card
    > Amex got quite shitty directly at us even though it was only a couple of
    > hundred dollars. We ended up paying it ourselves before Amex added any
    > interest and claimed it back later.
    >

    That sounds sounds like a shonky arrangement. Was it a personal or
    company expense? If it was a company expence, then the company ought to
    be liable to pay it.

    Our Corporate Amex accounts are sent to the company Finance dept. - the
    company pays and all we have to do is fill out an expense form
    accounting for the expenditures and provide receipts or documentation etc.
     
    Bok, Sep 27, 2004
    #13
  14. Adam Cameron

    EMB Guest

    Bok wrote:

    > That sounds sounds like a shonky arrangement. Was it a personal or
    > company expense? If it was a company expence, then the company ought to
    > be liable to pay it.


    Company expense - accounts department had a stack overflow or somesuch
    for a couple of months.
    >
    > Our Corporate Amex accounts are sent to the company Finance dept. - the
    > company pays and all we have to do is fill out an expense form
    > accounting for the expenditures and provide receipts or documentation etc.


    If you've got a corporate Amex, read the fine print on the agreement
    *very* carefully - you could be personally liable for the debt, which is
    just a great pile of shit if your employer goes tits up the week after
    you buy a new company car on the Amex. It all depends on how your
    company has set up the liability (and most palm it off onto the employee).

    http://www10.americanexpress.com/sif/cda/page/0,1641,13084,00.asp


    --
    EMB
    change two to the number to reply
     
    EMB, Sep 27, 2004
    #14
  15. Adam Cameron

    Bok Guest

    EMB wrote:
    > If you've got a corporate Amex, read the fine print on the agreement
    > *very* carefully - you could be personally liable for the debt, which is
    > just a great pile of shit if your employer goes tits up the week after
    > you buy a new company car on the Amex. It all depends on how your
    > company has set up the liability (and most palm it off onto the employee).
    >
    > http://www10.americanexpress.com/sif/cda/page/0,1641,13084,00.asp


    I'm reasonablly certain our arrangement falls into this category:
    "Full Corporate (Sole) Liability
    The company is liable for all charges"

    It certainly used to in the good old days. I'd better check that's still
    the case since agreements can change (and I don't always read all of the
    bureaucratic bull^H^H^H^Hliterature that gets circulated) .....
     
    Bok, Sep 27, 2004
    #15
  16. Adam Cameron

    Ron McNulty Guest

    My advice would be to make sure the overseas company pays for everthing -
    apart from the local massage parlour perhaps :)

    You never know how close the company is to bankrupcy , and you don't want to
    be footing the bill for epenses incurred on their behalf after they go down
    the gurgler. If they can't front up with air tickets and acommodation, don't
    go.

    Regards

    Ron

    "Adam Cameron" <> wrote in message
    news:1vppqpk30d4u0.7ndh2nyd57u9$...
    > G'day.
    > Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >
    > If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for

    the
    > fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    > currencies?
    >
    > And what about accommodation and daily expenses?
    >
    > I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.
    >
    > Adam
     
    Ron McNulty, Sep 27, 2004
    #16
  17. Adam Cameron

    thing Guest

    Harry wrote:
    > thing wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Harry wrote:
    >>
    >>>thing wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Harry wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Adam Cameron wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>G'day.
    >>>>>>Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for
    >>>>>>the fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    >>>>>>currencies?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>And what about accommodation and daily expenses?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>You should get a daily tax-free allowance of at least $60 for food,
    >>>>>and free accomodation or reimbursement for what you have to pay.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Better to have them pay up front for accomodation etc, the less you have
    >>>>on your plastic the better off you are.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>You can be reimbursed for all those expenses tax free.
    >>>It doesn't matter who pays the bill.
    >>>

    >>
    >>cash flow....if the company is late paying, you could be arguing over
    >>who pays the Interest......
    >>
    >>So called corporate Visas are from what I have seen in the terms and
    >>conditions are at your risk and not the company's.
    >>

    >
    >
    > They are mostly debit cards and have no actual credit facility.
    > They are automatically paid from company account every month.
    > So they are therefore a liability of the company.
    > Moreover they have limits so it isn't exactly possible to spend
    > too much on them either.
    >
    > But in any case if you pay on your personal card or by cash you can
    > get reimbursed in cash tax-free. Your credit card free period will
    > easily stretch until you are reimbused. If not you have the wrong card!
    >


    Nt the ones offerd by my ex-company, they were American express credit
    cards, you had to sign for it and claim the money back in time in order
    not to pay interest and/or penalties, if the company went bankrupt you
    were left with the bill, I declined to have one.

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing, Sep 27, 2004
    #17
  18. Adam Cameron

    thing Guest

    Bok wrote:
    > EMB wrote:
    >
    >> If you've got a corporate Amex, read the fine print on the agreement
    >> *very* carefully - you could be personally liable for the debt, which
    >> is just a great pile of shit if your employer goes tits up the week
    >> after you buy a new company car on the Amex. It all depends on how
    >> your company has set up the liability (and most palm it off onto the
    >> employee).
    >>
    >> http://www10.americanexpress.com/sif/cda/page/0,1641,13084,00.asp

    >
    >
    > I'm reasonablly certain our arrangement falls into this category:
    > "Full Corporate (Sole) Liability
    > The company is liable for all charges"
    >
    > It certainly used to in the good old days. I'd better check that's still
    > the case since agreements can change (and I don't always read all of the
    > bureaucratic bull^H^H^H^Hliterature that gets circulated) .....


    Its not always, my last company's fine print said it was all mine and I
    had to claim it back, so I didnt see the difference between using my
    VISA and theirs.....I declined to use both, and they were not happy,
    then I left, end of story.

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing, Sep 27, 2004
    #18
  19. Adam Cameron

    Adam Cameron Guest

    > I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.

    Cheers everyone.

    Adam
     
    Adam Cameron, Sep 27, 2004
    #19
  20. Adam Cameron

    Mr Scebe Guest

    "Adam Cameron" <> wrote in message
    news:1vppqpk30d4u0.7ndh2nyd57u9$...
    > G'day.
    > Hey, have any of you bods been seconded o/seas for a few months?
    >
    > If so, what was the deal with how your salary was adjusted to cater for

    the
    > fact that the NZ pauashell is of so little value compared to other
    > currencies?
    >
    > And what about accommodation and daily expenses?
    >
    > I'd appreciate any insight; cheers.


    I have had varying experiences. A few years ago now (shit more than a
    decade!), i was in a position where i got all my travel paid, plus
    accomodation at top hotels and also a daily rate that was between $60-$400 a
    day depending on where i was (some places are hellishly expensive to eat
    in). This was on top of my salary.

    More recently i was seconded to Australia, where i got relocation allowance
    plus my first week paid for until i found accomodation. After that there
    were few "extras". These days you have to be doing rather well to pick up
    top rates, but it's still there if you ask nicely. My most recent experience
    was a per diem of $NZ75.

    HTH.

    --
    Mr Scebe
    Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
    Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
    ~Sean Connery in "The Rock"
     
    Mr Scebe, Sep 30, 2004
    #20
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