Beginner VoiP questions

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Chris, Apr 2, 2006.

  1. Chris

    Chris Guest

    1. Is Skype the best bet because many ordinary people are familiar with
    it?

    2. Can an ATA adapter and a spare DECT phone be used with Skype?

    3. Is there anything that is better than Skype?

    4. Would an ATA adapter work with a Netgear DG834 wired router?

    5. Is there any point in using VoIP for calls abroad to normal phones,
    rather than using a dial-through company like Telestunt?

    6. Are there better questions I should be asking?!
    --
    Chris
     
    Chris, Apr 2, 2006
    #1
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  2. Chris

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "Chris" <nospam@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
    news:If14LKFoYBMEFwb$@[127.0.0.1]
    > 1. Is Skype the best bet because many ordinary people are
    > familiar with it?


    No. Skype uses a proprietary protocol which is not compatible with
    anything else. It's ok if you only ever call other people on Skype and you
    don't mind leaving a computer on all the time, but otherwise, forget it.

    > 2. Can an ATA adapter and a spare DECT phone be used with
    > Skype?


    No, see above.

    > 3. Is there anything that is better than Skype?


    Just about anything.

    > 4. Would an ATA adapter work with a Netgear DG834 wired
    > router?


    Yes.

    > 5. Is there any point in using VoIP for calls abroad to
    > normal phones, rather than using a dial-through company
    > like Telestunt?


    That depends on your usage pattern. If the person you are calling is also
    using VoIP, then the call is free..! The cost of calling different
    countries varies from provider to provider, for example www.sipgate.co.uk
    charge 1.5p/min for calls to the USA, but there are cheaper options. For
    my level of usage though it's acceptable.

    Using VoIP also means you effectively have a second 'line' so while you
    are on that call to the USA or wherever your main line is still free to
    accept incoming calls, or an additional outgoing call.

    > 6. Are there better questions I should be asking?!


    Some more detailed information on what you expect from VoIP would be
    useful. What is it you want to do..?

    Also try looking on the various forums that are around on the net.
    www.voxilla.com is a good place to start.


    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Apr 2, 2006
    #2
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  3. Chris

    Guest

    On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:37:18 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:


    >Just about anything.

    Apart from Sipgate .
     
    , Apr 2, 2006
    #3
  4. Chris

    Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:eek:
    > On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:37:18 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Just about anything.

    > Apart from Sipgate .


    To the OP, take no notice of the resident anti-Sipgate troll. Judge for
    yourself whether you think they are ok or not.

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Apr 2, 2006
    #4
  5. Chris

    Guest

    On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:21:28 +0100, Chris <nospam@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

    >1. Is Skype the best bet because many ordinary people are familiar with
    >it?


    No

    >2. Can an ATA adapter and a spare DECT phone be used with Skype?


    No

    >3. Is there anything that is better than Skype?


    Is there anything that isn't? Skype is dead easy to install. That's
    its advantage. Its only advantage, as far as I can see.

    >4. Would an ATA adapter work with a Netgear DG834 wired router?


    Yes

    >5. Is there any point in using VoIP for calls abroad to normal phones,
    >rather than using a dial-through company like Telestunt?


    Yes

    >6. Are there better questions I should be asking?!


    Ask yourself what you want, then find the best way to achieve it,
    rather than looking at solutions and working out a problem to fit
    them.
     
    , Apr 2, 2006
    #5
  6. Chris

    Bleh Guest

    On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 18:44:43 GMT, wrote:

    >On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:37:18 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Just about anything.

    >Apart from Sipgate .


    hi, I notice your on blueyonder... I've just got a PAP2 and setup
    Sipgate (seems ok so far) and voipbuster. Have you dumped your
    blueyonder phone line ? I use my phone very little so think I will and
    while I've read mixed things about voipbuster free call to new zealand
    seems good to me. I've tried the free 1m call a few times and little
    lag and sound quality was good.
     
    Bleh, Apr 2, 2006
    #6
  7. > 1. Is Skype the best bet because many ordinary people are familiar with
    > it?

    No, only if you only ever want to call other people on Skype, and only if
    other Skype users want to call you.

    > 2. Can an ATA adapter and a spare DECT phone be used with Skype?


    No, but you can use any SIP or IAX provider though. Skype can only be used
    via it's own software. Ignore the media hype - VOIP is not Skype - Skype is
    a type of VOIP that is used by a minority.

    > 3. Is there anything that is better than Skype?


    All "normal" types of VOIP - take a look at sipgate -
    http://www.sipgate.co.uk as a very good start, or for free UK and some
    worldwide destinations http://www.voipstunt.com

    > 4. Would an ATA adapter work with a Netgear DG834 wired router?


    Yes

    > 5. Is there any point in using VoIP for calls abroad to normal phones,
    > rather than using a dial-through company like Telestunt?


    Yes, in particular using Voipstunt (same company?), who are free.

    > 6. Are there better questions I should be asking?!


    Yes, Can anyone give me a good reason for using Skype ;-)

    Sorry, I could not resist - Skype use a system that is not compatible with
    any other VOIP service. Most other VOIP proviers try and make is as simple
    as possible to contact people on other VOIP services.

    Steve
    --
    =====================================================================
    Unlimited ADSL from just £16.99 per month!
    Ace Internet | http://www.ace-internet.co.uk
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    t: 08456 388 955 | f: 08456 388 956 | e:
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    Steve @ Aceinternet, Apr 2, 2006
    #7
  8. Chris

    Tim Bray Guest

    Chris wrote:

    > 3. Is there anything that is better than Skype?
    >


    SIP.
    (to point out the really obvious)

    Because it is all open standards. There are lots of SIP providers, lots
    of choice of equipment and lots of people doing it.



    Tim
     
    Tim Bray, Apr 2, 2006
    #8
  9. Chris

    Brian Slater Guest

    "Tim Bray" <> wrote in message
    news:44304578$0$1167$...
    > Chris wrote:
    >
    >> 3. Is there anything that is better than Skype?
    >>

    >
    > SIP.
    > (to point out the really obvious)
    >
    > Because it is all open standards. There are lots of SIP providers, lots
    > of choice of equipment and lots of people doing it.
    >
    >
    >
    > Tim

    I'm using Skype (in a limited way at the moment, only calling one person)
    but I took the Sipgate tour and noticed that they don't do conference calls
    and there is no mention of video. Skype covers both of these!

    For me the conference facility is useful as having a two computer network,
    two can be involved in the call. We can also show ourselves and objects
    while talking.

    I also notced that Sipgate did not recommend two accounts connected to one
    router,

    Brian.
     
    Brian Slater, Apr 3, 2006
    #9
  10. Chris

    Guest

    On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:05:28 +0100, "Brian Slater"
    <> wrote:

    >I'm using Skype (in a limited way at the moment, only calling one person)


    That's not really using it, then, is it? When you start using it
    properly, you will soon realise its limitations.

    >but I took the Sipgate tour and noticed that they don't do conference calls


    SIP VOIP does this. Whether one of the many hundreds of providers
    offers it is not significant. That's part of the point. With Skype you
    are stuck with the one provider, their prices and their service.
    Though of course you can do conference calls through Sipgate.

    Remember that your type of use of Skype (computer-computer) does not
    need the equivalent of Sipgate at all with SIP: you can connect from
    one SIP VOIP device direct to another as long as you know its hostname
    or IP.

    >and there is no mention of video.


    No, most people don't want video on their phones. The vast majority of
    telephones don't do video calls.

    >Skype covers both of these!


    No, it covers peer-peer calls, but there is no voice or conferencing
    on the poor quality Skype In or Skype Out, and the conference
    facilities are rudimentary once you leave the nerd-nerd peering.

    >For me the conference facility is useful as having a two computer network,
    >two can be involved in the call. We can also show ourselves and objects
    >while talking.


    I think you'd be better off using Neetmeeting.

    >I also notced that Sipgate did not recommend two accounts connected to one
    >router,


    Sorry, you've lost me with that one. Accounts connected to a router?
     
    , Apr 3, 2006
    #10
  11. Chris

    Brian Slater Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:05:28 +0100, "Brian Slater"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>I'm using Skype (in a limited way at the moment, only calling one person)

    >
    > That's not really using it, then, is it? When you start using it
    > properly, you will soon realise its limitations.
    >
    >>but I took the Sipgate tour and noticed that they don't do conference
    >>calls

    >
    > SIP VOIP does this. Whether one of the many hundreds of providers
    > offers it is not significant. That's part of the point. With Skype you
    > are stuck with the one provider, their prices and their service.
    > Though of course you can do conference calls through Sipgate.
    >
    > Remember that your type of use of Skype (computer-computer) does not
    > need the equivalent of Sipgate at all with SIP: you can connect from
    > one SIP VOIP device direct to another as long as you know its hostname
    > or IP.
    >
    >>and there is no mention of video.

    >
    > No, most people don't want video on their phones. The vast majority of
    > telephones don't do video calls.
    >
    >>Skype covers both of these!

    >
    > No, it covers peer-peer calls, but there is no voice or conferencing
    > on the poor quality Skype In or Skype Out, and the conference
    > facilities are rudimentary once you leave the nerd-nerd peering.
    >
    >>For me the conference facility is useful as having a two computer network,
    >>two can be involved in the call. We can also show ourselves and objects
    >>while talking.

    >
    > I think you'd be better off using Neetmeeting.
    >
    >>I also notced that Sipgate did not recommend two accounts connected to one
    >>router,

    >
    > Sorry, you've lost me with that one. Accounts connected to a router?


    Looks like I was wrong about two accounts on one router... quote " How
    do I configure two or more SIP terminals (phones) in a network?

    In order to allow two SIP terminals on a network to operate behind one
    router, you must make the following configuration changes. ......" (Sipgate
    tour)

    I think you are wrong regarding video, I'm working in family mode and
    I have spoken to several (Skype) users who say that they use video to see
    their distant family members.

    Skype seems to be useful for families. It needs no special equipment,
    is easy to install and as I'm using the (nerd to nerd) peer connection,
    works well,

    Brian.
     
    Brian Slater, Apr 3, 2006
    #11
  12. Chris

    JW Guest

    Chris wrote:
    > 1. Is Skype the best bet because many ordinary people are familiar with it?
    >
    > 2. Can an ATA adapter and a spare DECT phone be used with Skype?
    >
    > 3. Is there anything that is better than Skype?
    >
    > 4. Would an ATA adapter work with a Netgear DG834 wired router?
    >
    > 5. Is there any point in using VoIP for calls abroad to normal phones,
    > rather than using a dial-through company like Telestunt?
    >
    > 6. Are there better questions I should be asking?!


    As others point out, Skype has some limitations - mainly
    because it's PC based - but it does provide high-quality
    speech between PC users, which is pretty unusual (if not
    unique?)

    In the past, I have sometimes found Skype servers a bit slow
    to respond on sign-in. They may not have the capacity to
    support all the users they have signed up. I don't know if
    they have increased capacity recently.

    You can get a DECT phone which plugs into both a PC (for
    Skype calls) and a landline.
     
    JW, Apr 3, 2006
    #12
  13. Chris

    Brian Slater Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:05:28 +0100, "Brian Slater"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>I'm using Skype (in a limited way at the moment, only calling one person)

    >
    > That's not really using it, then, is it? When you start using it
    > properly, you will soon realise its limitations.
    >
    >>but I took the Sipgate tour and noticed that they don't do conference
    >>calls

    >
    > SIP VOIP does this. Whether one of the many hundreds of providers
    > offers it is not significant. That's part of the point. With Skype you
    > are stuck with the one provider, their prices and their service.
    > Though of course you can do conference calls through Sipgate.
    >
    > Remember that your type of use of Skype (computer-computer) does not
    > need the equivalent of Sipgate at all with SIP: you can connect from
    > one SIP VOIP device direct to another as long as you know its hostname
    > or IP.
    >
    >>and there is no mention of video.

    >
    > No, most people don't want video on their phones. The vast majority of
    > telephones don't do video calls.
    >
    >>Skype covers both of these!

    >
    > No, it covers peer-peer calls, but there is no voice or conferencing
    > on the poor quality Skype In or Skype Out, and the conference
    > facilities are rudimentary once you leave the nerd-nerd peering.
    >
    >>For me the conference facility is useful as having a two computer network,
    >>two can be involved in the call. We can also show ourselves and objects
    >>while talking.

    >
    > I think you'd be better off using Neetmeeting.
    >
    >>I also notced that Sipgate did not recommend two accounts connected to one
    >>router,

    >
    > Sorry, you've lost me with that one. Accounts connected to a router?


    It seems I was wrong, (quote)
    Question:
    BT-101: How do I configure two or more SIP terminals in a network?


    Content:
    In order to allow two SIP terminals on a network to operate behind one
    router, you must make the following configuration changes. Configuration of
    the IP devices Reconfigure the DHCP mode and assign a static IP address to
    both devices. ...
    (unquote - Sipgate tour)

    I disagree regarding video. I have spoken to several people who use
    Skype in "family mode" who are very keen on the video facilities to view
    distant family members. Conferencing is also very good in family mode,

    Brian.
     
    Brian Slater, Apr 3, 2006
    #13
  14. Chris

    Guest

    On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:39:22 +0100, "Brian Slater"
    <> wrote:

    > I think you are wrong regarding video, I'm working in family mode and
    >I have spoken to several (Skype) users who say that they use video to see
    >their distant family members.


    Much like a load of other webchat programmes. And netmeeting.

    > Skype seems to be useful for families. It needs no special equipment,
    >is easy to install and as I'm using the (nerd to nerd) peer connection,
    >works well,


    Yes, it is easy to install, and works well for nerd to nerd
    applications. It is vastly less good as a phone service, connecting to
    real telephones. But people are drawn in by its initial ease of use,
    and then assume that all VOIP telephony means poor quality and poor
    reliability.

    I rather like "nerd to nerd" as a description. One of my less awful
    inventions!
     
    , Apr 3, 2006
    #14
  15. Chris

    Tim Bray Guest

    Brian Slater wrote:
    > I'm using Skype (in a limited way at the moment, only calling one person)
    > but I took the Sipgate tour and noticed that they don't do conference calls
    > and there is no mention of video. Skype covers both of these!


    The technology of SIP does not prevent video or conferencing.

    Lots of SIP service providers do support conferencing (gradwell do, and
    there are others), and so do some SIP hardware phones (such at the
    Snom320 and Snom360). You can do conferences either in the network, or
    using your phone.

    If you wish to use video, then you need to use a SIP client that
    supports video.

    The two I can think of from the top of my head are Wengo and Ekiga.
    There are plenty of others.



    > I also notced that Sipgate did not recommend two accounts connected to one
    > router,


    Not sure why this is, but it isn't a problem in other places.

    Tim
     
    Tim Bray, Apr 4, 2006
    #15
  16. Chris

    Tim Bray Guest

    JW wrote:
    > As others point out, Skype has some limitations - mainly because it's PC
    > based - but it does provide high-quality speech between PC users, which
    > is pretty unusual (if not unique?)


    I'm not so sure about high quality - they sound ok, but the codecs are
    Low Rate. That means less sound than a normal phonecall, which means
    your brain works harder, and a higher chance the person at the other end
    will need to repeat something.




    Tim
     
    Tim Bray, Apr 4, 2006
    #16
  17. Tim Bray wrote:
    > JW wrote:
    >> As others point out, Skype has some limitations - mainly because it's
    >> PC based - but it does provide high-quality speech between PC users,
    >> which is pretty unusual (if not unique?)

    >
    > I'm not so sure about high quality - they sound ok, but the codecs are
    > Low Rate. That means less sound than a normal phonecall, which means
    > your brain works harder, and a higher chance the person at the other end
    > will need to repeat something.
    >

    I've no idea which codecs are involved, but couldn't it also mean that
    you are sacrificing more runtime to get the same sound quality (while
    conserving bandwidth).
     
    Thomas Kenyon, Apr 4, 2006
    #17
  18. Chris

    The Invalid Guest

    On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:37:18 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >"Chris" <nospam@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
    >news:If14LKFoYBMEFwb$@[127.0.0.1]
    >> 1. Is Skype the best bet because many ordinary people are
    >> familiar with it?

    >
    >No. Skype uses a proprietary protocol which is not compatible with
    >anything else. It's ok if you only ever call other people on Skype


    Rubbish
    I use it to call out to normal phones, and the clarity of the call is
    far better than a normal line.


    >
    >> 2. Can an ATA adapter and a spare DECT phone be used with
    >> Skype?

    >
    >No, see above.
    >
    >> 3. Is there anything that is better than Skype?

    >
    >Just about anything.

    Once again rubbish. You are biased towards Sip
    >


    >> like Telestunt?

    >
    >That depends on your usage pattern. If the person you are calling is also
    >using VoIP, then the call is free..! The cost of calling different
    >countries varies from provider to provider, for example www.sipgate.co.uk
    >charge 1.5p/min for calls to the USA, but there are cheaper options. For
    >my level of usage though it's acceptable.


    Voipstunt is free to the US



    >
    >Using VoIP also means you effectively have a second 'line' so while you
    >are on that call to the USA or wherever your main line is still free to
    >accept incoming calls, or an additional outgoing call.


    As it does if you use Skype
    >
    >> 6. Are there better questions I should be asking?!

    >
     
    The Invalid, Apr 4, 2006
    #18
  19. Chris

    The Invalid Guest

    On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:25:18 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >
    ><> wrote in message
    >news:eek:
    >> On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:37:18 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> > Just about anything.

    >> Apart from Sipgate .

    >
    >To the OP, take no notice of the resident anti-Sipgate troll. Judge for
    >yourself whether you think they are ok or not.
    >
    >Ivor
    >

    To the OP take no notice of this biased Sipgate person
     
    The Invalid, Apr 4, 2006
    #19
  20. Chris

    The Invalid Guest

    On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 21:58:19 +0100, "Steve @ Aceinternet"
    <> wrote:

    >> 1. Is Skype the best bet because many ordinary people are familiar with
    >> it?

    >No, only if you only ever want to call other people on Skype, and only if
    >other Skype users want to call you.


    Why do you say that?
    I use Skypeout to call many people and its far better than my BT phone
    >
    >> 2. Can an ATA adapter and a spare DECT phone be used with Skype?

    >
    >No, but you can use any SIP or IAX provider though. Skype can only be used
    >via it's own software. Ignore the media hype - VOIP is not Skype - Skype is
    >a type of VOIP that is used by a minority.
    >
    >> 3. Is there anything that is better than Skype?

    IMHO, No
    >
    >All "normal" types of VOIP - take a look at sipgate -
    >http://www.sipgate.co.uk as a very good start, or for free UK and some
    >worldwide destinations http://www.voipstunt.com
    >
    >> 4. Would an ATA adapter work with a Netgear DG834 wired router?

    >
    >Yes
    >
    >> 5. Is there any point in using VoIP for calls abroad to normal phones,
    >> rather than using a dial-through company like Telestunt?

    >
    >Yes, in particular using Voipstunt (same company?), who are free.
    >
    >> 6. Are there better questions I should be asking?!

    >
    >Yes, Can anyone give me a good reason for using Skype ;-)
    >
    >Sorry, I could not resist - Skype use a system that is not compatible with
    >any other VOIP service. Most other VOIP proviers try and make is as simple
    >as possible to contact people on other VOIP services.


    And also make it more expensive
     
    The Invalid, Apr 4, 2006
    #20
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