battery question - nimh vs hybrid nimh

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by spoon2001, Jun 30, 2007.

  1. spoon2001

    spoon2001 Guest

    I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my charger, my
    brother put them in his camera, and the camera immediately reported the
    batteries were too low to run the camera.

    Then I gave my brother my hybrid nimhs (Uniross Hybrio) from my cordless
    mouse - he took 152 pictures on them with flash, and the camera still
    reported the battery fully charged.

    I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see their charge
    level - they had less charge than the batteries that the camera rejected
    immediately! What is the explanation for this?
     
    spoon2001, Jun 30, 2007
    #1
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  2. "spoon2001" <> wrote in message
    news:Isthi.9553$...
    >I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my
    >charger, my brother put them in his camera, and the camera
    >immediately reported the batteries were too low to run the
    >camera.
    >
    > Then I gave my brother my hybrid nimhs (Uniross Hybrio) from
    > my cordless mouse - he took 152 pictures on them with flash,
    > and the camera still reported the battery fully charged.
    >
    > I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see
    > their charge level - they had less charge than the batteries
    > that the camera rejected immediately! What is the explanation
    > for this?
    >

    It depends a lot on how you are doing the testing and what
    voltage the camera cut-off is set for. My own camera has to be
    set for battery type but it's old enough not to have Hybrio as a
    choice. The measurement is carried out, I believe, by measuring
    the voltage under a load. The trouble with many testers is that
    the meter shows Good...watch it...bad or something like that not
    voltage but, unless you know the battery characteristics, it's
    what most people want.

    The same sort of thing happens for equipment like cordless mice
    (mouses if you will :) My own Logitech mouse does not give much
    time to start recharging before it dies completely. Fortunately,
    the undocumented level can be changed.



    --
    Jim Silverton
    Potomac, Maryland



    --
    Jim Silverton
    Potomac, Maryland
     
    James Silverton, Jun 30, 2007
    #2
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  3. spoon2001

    Dave Cohen Guest

    James Silverton wrote:
    > "spoon2001" <> wrote in message
    > news:Isthi.9553$...
    >> I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my charger, my
    >> brother put them in his camera, and the camera immediately reported
    >> the batteries were too low to run the camera.
    >>
    >> Then I gave my brother my hybrid nimhs (Uniross Hybrio) from my
    >> cordless mouse - he took 152 pictures on them with flash, and the
    >> camera still reported the battery fully charged.
    >>
    >> I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see their
    >> charge level - they had less charge than the batteries that the camera
    >> rejected immediately! What is the explanation for this?
    >>

    > It depends a lot on how you are doing the testing and what voltage the
    > camera cut-off is set for. My own camera has to be set for battery type
    > but it's old enough not to have Hybrio as a choice. The measurement is
    > carried out, I believe, by measuring the voltage under a load. The
    > trouble with many testers is that the meter shows Good...watch it...bad
    > or something like that not voltage but, unless you know the battery
    > characteristics, it's what most people want.
    >
    > The same sort of thing happens for equipment like cordless mice (mouses
    > if you will :) My own Logitech mouse does not give much time to start
    > recharging before it dies completely. Fortunately, the undocumented
    > level can be changed.
    >
    >
    >

    I think my son has a similar problem with his cordless mouse. I also
    suspect the test method, however, that doesn't explain why the op is
    getting poor results with the regualr NiMH. I've owned 3 sets of NiMH
    and am now using eneloops. One of those set (Rinpoche from Walmart)
    never worked in the camera and when I eventually got a smart individual
    cell charger I could see one or more cells took a very long time to shut
    off and got hot in the meantime. However, they worked reasonably well in
    a battery operated razor. Sometimes you can just pick up a bad set of
    cells that maybe just can't hack the current drain.
    Dave Cohen
     
    Dave Cohen, Jun 30, 2007
    #3
  4. spoon2001

    Guest

    On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:08:40 -0500, "spoon2001"
    <> wrote:

    >I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my charger, my
    >brother put them in his camera, and the camera immediately reported the
    >batteries were too low to run the camera.
    >
    >Then I gave my brother my hybrid nimhs (Uniross Hybrio) from my cordless
    >mouse - he took 152 pictures on them with flash, and the camera still
    >reported the battery fully charged.
    >
    >I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see their charge
    >level - they had less charge than the batteries that the camera rejected
    >immediately! What is the explanation for this?
    >
    >

    I could just be dirty contacts on the battery or camera. Clean both
    with alcohol and try your test again.
     
    , Jun 30, 2007
    #4
  5. spoon2001

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <Isthi.9553$>, spoon2001
    says...
    > I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my charger, my
    > brother put them in his camera, and the camera immediately reported the
    > batteries were too low to run the camera.
    >
    > Then I gave my brother my hybrid nimhs (Uniross Hybrio) from my cordless
    > mouse - he took 152 pictures on them with flash, and the camera still
    > reported the battery fully charged.
    >
    > I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see their charge
    > level - they had less charge than the batteries that the camera rejected
    > immediately! What is the explanation for this?


    What is the different between nimh and hybrid nimh?
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E3X0, E4X0 and E5X0 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
     
    Alfred Molon, Jun 30, 2007
    #5
  6. spoon2001 wrote:
    > I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my charger, my
    > brother put them in his camera, and the camera immediately reported
    > the batteries were too low to run the camera.
    >
    > Then I gave my brother my hybrid nimhs (Uniross Hybrio) from my
    > cordless mouse - he took 152 pictures on them with flash, and the
    > camera still reported the battery fully charged.
    >
    > I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see their
    > charge level - they had less charge than the batteries that the
    > camera rejected immediately! What is the explanation for this?


    I would tend to think the dirty contact idea is the real answer.
    However keep in mind that different battery types react differently under
    different drain levels. The camera is only saying that the batteries in
    question meet the minimum specs for that specific use, based on what the
    recommended battery type would measure. Different battery types could
    measure differently. Note that some battery types could damage the camera
    if they are not of the type recommended by the camera manufacturer. Playing
    with different types in an expensive camera can be ... well expensive.

    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia 's Muire duit
     
    Joseph Meehan, Jun 30, 2007
    #6
  7. spoon2001

    ray Guest

    On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:34:00 +0200, Alfred Molon wrote:

    > In article <Isthi.9553$>, spoon2001
    > says...
    >> I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my charger, my
    >> brother put them in his camera, and the camera immediately reported the
    >> batteries were too low to run the camera.
    >>
    >> Then I gave my brother my hybrid nimhs (Uniross Hybrio) from my cordless
    >> mouse - he took 152 pictures on them with flash, and the camera still
    >> reported the battery fully charged.
    >>
    >> I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see their charge
    >> level - they had less charge than the batteries that the camera rejected
    >> immediately! What is the explanation for this?

    >
    > What is the different between nimh and hybrid nimh?


    A year or so ago sanyo marketed their 'enerloop' which, it was claimed,
    removed the problem experienced with nimh batteries of losing charge over
    time. 'hybrid' is rayovac's name for the same technology. There is nothing
    'hybrid' about it - just a marketing name.
     
    ray, Jun 30, 2007
    #7
  8. spoon2001

    ASAAR Guest

    On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:08:40 -0500, spoon2001 wrote:

    > I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my charger, my
    > brother put them in his camera, and the camera immediately reported the
    > batteries were too low to run the camera.


    That could be the problem if "200mah" isn't a typo. <g>


    > I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see their charge
    > level - they had less charge than the batteries that the camera rejected
    > immediately! What is the explanation for this?


    Your question can't really be answered definatively unless you
    describe how you tested the charge levels as well as stating the
    results that you got. People in the past have done this using
    several different methods, some useful, others not very . . .
     
    ASAAR, Jun 30, 2007
    #8
  9. spoon2001

    Dave Cohen Guest

    ray wrote:
    > On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:34:00 +0200, Alfred Molon wrote:
    >
    >> In article <Isthi.9553$>, spoon2001
    >> says...
    >>> I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my charger, my
    >>> brother put them in his camera, and the camera immediately reported the
    >>> batteries were too low to run the camera.
    >>>
    >>> Then I gave my brother my hybrid nimhs (Uniross Hybrio) from my cordless
    >>> mouse - he took 152 pictures on them with flash, and the camera still
    >>> reported the battery fully charged.
    >>>
    >>> I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see their charge
    >>> level - they had less charge than the batteries that the camera rejected
    >>> immediately! What is the explanation for this?

    >>
    >> What is the different between nimh and hybrid nimh?

    >
    > A year or so ago sanyo marketed their 'enerloop' which, it was claimed,
    > removed the problem experienced with nimh batteries of losing charge over
    > time. 'hybrid' is rayovac's name for the same technology. There is nothing
    > 'hybrid' about it - just a marketing name.
    >

    And a very poor choice of name at that. Eneloop doesn't exactly convey
    much either but at least it seems to be unique (my dictionary doesn't
    show it). But what the heck, they work great and I would expect this
    type to eventually supersede normal NiMH's, particularly if they can up
    the capacity a little.
    Dave Cohen
     
    Dave Cohen, Jun 30, 2007
    #9
  10. spoon2001

    ASAAR Guest

    On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:44:15 GMT, Dave Cohen wrote:

    > And a very poor choice of name at that. Eneloop doesn't exactly convey
    > much either but at least it seems to be unique (my dictionary doesn't
    > show it). But what the heck, they work great and I would expect this
    > type to eventually supersede normal NiMH's, particularly if they can up
    > the capacity a little.


    The probably could, but I'd rather they didn't, as it seems to be
    a tradeoff between low self-discharge and high capacity. From the
    little I've read about Eneloop type NiMH batteries, they're not
    really chemically different than standard NiMH cells. The
    difference is due to mechanical construction, such as thicker, less
    porous internal membranes that helps slow down unwanted chemical
    reactions. I don't approve of some of the techniques used to
    increase capacity. One is to slightly increase the diameter of the
    NiMH AA cells. This makes them hard to insert and remove in some of
    my non-camera devices, but it certainly allows the inclusion of more
    NiMH "soup". :)

    At first I suspected that the increased diameter might have been
    due to stretching due to the heat from many charge cycles. But I
    soon found that some brand new NiMH cells were oversized. I've
    never found any alkaline battery brands that had abnormally large
    diameters.
     
    ASAAR, Jun 30, 2007
    #10
  11. spoon2001

    SMS Guest

    spoon2001 wrote:
    > I took some standard nimhs (Lenmar Nomem 200mah) out of my charger, my
    > brother put them in his camera, and the camera immediately reported the
    > batteries were too low to run the camera.
    >
    > Then I gave my brother my hybrid nimhs (Uniross Hybrio) from my cordless
    > mouse - he took 152 pictures on them with flash, and the camera still
    > reported the battery fully charged.
    >
    > I took back the hybrid nimh batteries and tested them to see their charge
    > level - they had less charge than the batteries that the camera rejected
    > immediately! What is the explanation for this?


    How did you test each battery? It's not trivial to test NiMH batteries
    for remaining capacity. The capacity decreases as the battery ages, and
    a large part of the capacity is used up at a relatively flat voltage.

    See "http://www.thomasdistributing.com/zts-mini-mbt-battery-tester.htm"
    for a battery tester that will give a reasonably good estimate of
    capacity. Some chargers also will do a pulse load test, and some will do
    capacity test by charging then discharging the battery and calculating
    the mAH.

    It's a good idea to check all your batteries for capacity so you match
    up sets that are close in capacity. Use a charger like the Maha MH-C9000
    or the La Crosse BC-900 to test the capacity of each cell.

    As to the Lenmar, I think you may have a bad cell (or more than one). I
    bought a bunch of those 2000 mAH Lenmar cells a while back because they
    were very cheap, but they were not very good, and I had several bad cells.

    Steve
    http://batterydata.com
     
    SMS, Jul 1, 2007
    #11
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