Basic question on VoIP

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Stephane M, Jul 19, 2005.

  1. Stephane M

    Stephane M Guest

    Hello,

    I have a slow ADSL... (512kb/s) however, I can see that if I make a VoIP
    phone call AND if I download a file at the same time, I have some trouble
    with my communication. (Not really suprising ... :-(

    - Do you think that this desappear with quicker broadband ?
    - Or is there a trick to keep a good communication when somebody else is
    downloading at the same time on the network ??

    Ta.

    Stephan
    Stephane M, Jul 19, 2005
    #1
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  2. Stephane M

    Davew Guest

    Stephane M wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I have a slow ADSL... (512kb/s) however, I can see that if I make a VoIP
    > phone call AND if I download a file at the same time, I have some trouble
    > with my communication. (Not really suprising ... :-(
    >
    > - Do you think that this desappear with quicker broadband ?
    > - Or is there a trick to keep a good communication when somebody else is
    > downloading at the same time on the network ??
    >
    > Ta.
    >
    > Stephan
    >
    >


    I used to be on 512k and upgraded to 1mb and found it to be better.
    Sometimes when i was on 512 people would tell me that there was 'blips'.
    I found that these blips was when my email application was
    autochecking for new mail.

    However, in order to really answer your question - what are you using
    for VOIP?
    Davew, Jul 19, 2005
    #2
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  3. Stephane M

    Paul D.Smith Guest

    "Stephane M" <> wrote in message
    news:dbi74s$mgl$1$...
    > Hello,
    >
    > I have a slow ADSL... (512kb/s) however, I can see that if I make a VoIP
    > phone call AND if I download a file at the same time, I have some trouble
    > with my communication. (Not really suprising ... :-(
    >
    > - Do you think that this desappear with quicker broadband ?


    No. Given more bandwidth, your download will be faster but will probably
    still swamp out the VoIP call.

    > - Or is there a trick to keep a good communication when somebody else is
    > downloading at the same time on the network ??
    >


    Maybe.

    The issue is that VoIP requires a certain bandwidth but without anything
    stopping it, other things such as downloads grab all the badnwidth leaving
    the VoIP call starved. You can reconfigure your network (if its not
    already) like this...

    Internet--- ADSL --- VoIP ATA --- Router/Switch/Hub -- Computer
    |
    +-- phone

    However, this is still not 100% safe since this will protect the route up
    from ATA to internet and might not help with the downstream. However its
    possible that the ATA may also slow the downlink by acknowledging TCP
    packets more slowly than it would otherwise - I'm no TCP algorithm expert
    though.

    For "real" VoIP installations, people create VoIP backbones with proper
    Quality of Service (QoS) set up to protect the voice from the data. You can
    do the same by stopping downloads whilst your on the phone.

    Of course this all assumes that the ISP doesn't swamp your VoIP data
    either - and you have no control on this.

    Paul DS
    Paul D.Smith, Jul 19, 2005
    #3
  4. Stephane M

    Chris Blunt Guest

    On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:38:48 +0100, "Stephane M" <>
    wrote:

    >Hello,
    >
    >I have a slow ADSL... (512kb/s) however, I can see that if I make a VoIP
    >phone call AND if I download a file at the same time, I have some trouble
    >with my communication. (Not really suprising ... :-(
    >
    >- Do you think that this desappear with quicker broadband ?
    >- Or is there a trick to keep a good communication when somebody else is
    >downloading at the same time on the network ??


    There is a trick, and the trick is known as QoS (Quality of Service).

    QoS is a facility available on some routers and it provides a method
    of giving your VoIP traffic higher priority than other connections so
    as to reduce the delays to it which result in interruptions to the
    voice signal. If you are doing a download at the same time as making a
    voice call, the download will be throttled back as necessary to
    maintain sufficient bandwidth for the voice traffic.

    You might want to check out this list of routers which are reported to
    support QoS.

    http://www.voip-info.org/tiki-index.php?page=VOIP Routers

    Chris
    Chris Blunt, Jul 19, 2005
    #4
  5. Stephane M

    r_mervart Guest

    "Chris Blunt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:38:48 +0100, "Stephane M" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Hello,
    > >
    > >I have a slow ADSL... (512kb/s) however, I can see that if I make a VoIP
    > >phone call AND if I download a file at the same time, I have some trouble
    > >with my communication. (Not really suprising ... :-(
    > >
    > >- Do you think that this desappear with quicker broadband ?
    > >- Or is there a trick to keep a good communication when somebody else is
    > >downloading at the same time on the network ??

    >
    > There is a trick, and the trick is known as QoS (Quality of Service).
    >
    > QoS is a facility available on some routers and it provides a method
    > of giving your VoIP traffic higher priority than other connections so
    > as to reduce the delays to it which result in interruptions to the
    > voice signal. If you are doing a download at the same time as making a
    > voice call, the download will be throttled back as necessary to
    > maintain sufficient bandwidth for the voice traffic.
    >
    > You might want to check out this list of routers which are reported to
    > support QoS.
    >
    > http://www.voip-info.org/tiki-index.php?page=VOIP Routers
    >

    bewildering selection
    Roman
    r_mervart, Jul 19, 2005
    #5
  6. Stephane M

    Martin² Guest

    Martin², Jul 20, 2005
    #6
  7. Stephane M

    r_mervart Guest

    "Martin²" <> wrote in message
    news:42dd970d$0$2868$...
    > >> http://www.voip-info.org/tiki-index.php?page=VOIP Routers
    > >>

    > >Roman:
    > >bewildering selection

    >
    > And its not even up to date / complete.
    > Zyxel 2602HW has 2 VoiP ports and QoS and the HWL version has pass-through
    > to the POTS line too.
    > Regards,
    > Martin


    I am reading this group because I am trying to establish whether my son, who
    is setting up a (very) small business venture, could possibly save some
    money using VoIP compared to standard BT landline but have a reliable
    service with comparable voice quality without getting bogged down with
    technicalities. He will have broadband connection. All he needs, at least to
    start with, is an equivalent to a single BT line with basic facilities, such
    as answerphone and call divert, a local (London) number plus possibly 0845
    or 0870 number. However, the service needs to be reliable and there should
    not be any noticeable blips or other manifestations of problems with other
    activity on the broadband connection. I think if the voice comms would take
    priority in such a way that stopping of downloads would be done
    automatically without need for human to intervene that could be acceptable.
    Roman
    r_mervart, Jul 20, 2005
    #7
  8. Stephane M

    Martin² Guest

    Roman:
    >mall business venture, could possibly save some
    >money using VoIP compared to standard BT landline but have a reliable
    >service with comparable voice quality


    Reputedly you get reliable service from Gradwell, Vonage and perhaps
    Voiphone,
    but they all charge rental, which rather limits any savings.

    >I think if the voice comms would take
    >priority in such a way that stopping of downloads would be done
    >automatically


    For that you need a router with QoS (quality of service) such as Zyxel 2602
    HW / HWL or Draytek 2500V / 2600V / VG. But you need to set the QoS
    parameters, not as simple as it should be, especially on the Draytek.
    Regards,
    Martin
    Martin², Jul 21, 2005
    #8
  9. Stephane M

    Guest

    On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:20:12 +0100, "Martin²" <> wrote:

    >Reputedly you get reliable service from Gradwell, Vonage and perhaps
    >Voiphone,
    >but they all charge rental, which rather limits any savings.

    Vonage does NOT charge rental they charge 9.99 a month inclusive of
    VAT and ALL calls to geographical numbers in the whole of the UK
    and ALL of Ireland . What is BT charging for their all calls package
    is it twenty eight quid a month or something and that only includes
    calls to northern Ireland not the south !!.
    , Jul 21, 2005
    #9
  10. Stephane M

    Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:20:12 +0100, "Martin²" <> wrote:
    >
    >>Reputedly you get reliable service from Gradwell, Vonage and perhaps
    >>Voiphone,
    >>but they all charge rental, which rather limits any savings.


    > Vonage does NOT charge rental they charge 9.99 a month inclusive of
    > VAT and ALL calls to geographical numbers in the whole of the UK
    > and ALL of Ireland . What is BT charging for their all calls package
    > is it twenty eight quid a month or something and that only includes
    > calls to northern Ireland not the south !!.


    If it's a charge payable every month regardless of how much or how little
    you use it, then in my book it's rental. I can't have the service without
    paying it, so as far as I'm concerned it's rental by another name.

    As I told you before, I'd struggle to make £9.99 of calls in a year, never
    mind a month..! Most of my calls are to mobiles, so I use the mobile for
    that, or Sipgate users, which are free anyway, so what I'd do with a
    tenner's worth of calls to landlines in a month I have no idea..!

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Jul 21, 2005
    #10
  11. Stephane M

    r_mervart Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:20:12 +0100, "Martin²" <> wrote:
    >
    > >Reputedly you get reliable service from Gradwell, Vonage and perhaps
    > >Voiphone,
    > >but they all charge rental, which rather limits any savings.

    > Vonage does NOT charge rental they charge 9.99 a month inclusive of
    > VAT and ALL calls to geographical numbers in the whole of the UK
    > and ALL of Ireland . What is BT charging for their all calls package
    > is it twenty eight quid a month or something and that only includes
    > calls to northern Ireland not the south !!.


    If it is a fixed non-reducible monthly charge then it is what would normally
    be understood as a rental whether it includes certain types of call without
    further charge or not. It may be much better rental than BT equivalent but
    it is rental.
    Roman
    r_mervart, Jul 21, 2005
    #11
  12. Stephane M

    Guest

    On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:14:47 GMT, "r_mervart"
    <> wrote:


    >If it is a fixed non-reducible monthly charge then it is what would normally
    >be understood as a rental whether it includes certain types of call without
    >further charge or not.

    No you are wrong if I took what you are saying above to be correct
    then our city transport operators are charging bus rental when they
    say I can travel anywhere in the city at any time of the day or night
    for a fixed monthly fee.
    Now I have a choice I can either buy the journeys in bulk at a very
    much reduced rate or I can pay per journey and it is exactly the same
    with Vonage and many other phone companies with the exception of BT
    who clearly state their top package includes line RENTAL and ALL
    calls. You cannot rent a line from Vonage has they have no lines to
    rent .
    , Jul 21, 2005
    #12
  13. Stephane M

    Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:14:47 GMT, "r_mervart"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>If it is a fixed non-reducible monthly charge then it is what would
    >>normally
    >>be understood as a rental whether it includes certain types of call
    >>without
    >>further charge or not.


    > No you are wrong if I took what you are saying above to be correct
    > then our city transport operators are charging bus rental when they
    > say I can travel anywhere in the city at any time of the day or night
    > for a fixed monthly fee.
    > Now I have a choice I can either buy the journeys in bulk at a very
    > much reduced rate or I can pay per journey and it is exactly the same
    > with Vonage and many other phone companies with the exception of BT
    > who clearly state their top package includes line RENTAL and ALL
    > calls. You cannot rent a line from Vonage has they have no lines to
    > rent .


    Are you telling me that I can have a number from Vonage and not pay a
    monthly charge but can use the same system as Sipgate and add credit like
    a PAYG mobile..? If so I can't see it on their website anywhere.

    If it's a charge I have to pay in order to use the service then it's
    rental in all but name.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Jul 21, 2005
    #13
  14. Stephane M

    Guest

    On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:51:29 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:


    >Are you telling me that I can have a number from Vonage and not pay a
    >monthly charge but can use the same system as Sipgate and add credit like
    >a PAYG mobile..? If so I can't see it on their website anywhere.

    No
    >If it's a charge I have to pay in order to use the service then it's
    >rental in all but name.

    No it isn't a charge you have to pay in order to use the service Ivor
    in the sence you are meaning ,you have to pay a charge in order to
    make calls just has you have to pay a charge in order to make calls
    via Sipgate or any other VOIP telecoms provider unless it is to other
    users of their service and how do you know if you are calling a
    Sipgate/Vonage or any other providers number anyway other than calling
    the number and see if you are either connected or get told to put some
    money in your account.
    Ivor I and others are paying Vonage for a high quality service and the
    service is of high quality in all respects and they provide a free
    phone number for customes to get in contact with them unlike a certain
    other operator who I shall not name that cannot even be bothered to
    answer customers emails anymore .
    You said yourself the other night if you want quality you have to pay
    for it and I have proved this fact time and time again over the years,
    the differance between Sipgate and Vonage is like going in the London
    Hilton for dinner and going in Joe's cafe round the corner .
    , Jul 21, 2005
    #14
  15. Stephane M

    Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:51:29 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Are you telling me that I can have a number from Vonage and not pay a
    >>monthly charge but can use the same system as Sipgate and add credit
    >>like
    >>a PAYG mobile..? If so I can't see it on their website anywhere.

    > No
    >>If it's a charge I have to pay in order to use the service then it's
    >>rental in all but name.


    > No it isn't a charge you have to pay in order to use the service Ivor
    > in the sence you are meaning ,you have to pay a charge in order to
    > make calls just has you have to pay a charge in order to make calls
    > via Sipgate or any other VOIP telecoms provider unless it is to other
    > users of their service and how do you know if you are calling a
    > Sipgate/Vonage or any other providers number anyway other than calling
    > the number and see if you are either connected or get told to put some
    > money in your account.


    I wish you'd put paragraph breaks in sometimes..!

    But it *is* a charge I have to pay in order to use the service..! I can't
    have a Vonage account without paying money every month whether I make any
    calls or not, or can I..?

    What if I don't make any calls..?

    > Ivor I and others are paying Vonage for a high quality service and the
    > service is of high quality in all respects and they provide a free
    > phone number for customes to get in contact with them unlike a certain
    > other operator who I shall not name that cannot even be bothered to
    > answer customers emails anymore .


    So if I don't make any calls I don't pay anything, is that right..? Where
    does it say this on the website..?

    > You said yourself the other night if you want quality you have to pay
    > for it and I have proved this fact time and time again over the years,
    > the differance between Sipgate and Vonage is like going in the London
    > Hilton for dinner and going in Joe's cafe round the corner .


    But I like sausage & chips..!

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Jul 21, 2005
    #15
  16. Stephane M

    r_mervart Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:14:47 GMT, "r_mervart"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >If it is a fixed non-reducible monthly charge then it is what would

    normally
    > >be understood as a rental whether it includes certain types of call

    without
    > >further charge or not.

    > No you are wrong if I took what you are saying above to be correct
    > then our city transport operators are charging bus rental when they
    > say I can travel anywhere in the city at any time of the day or night
    > for a fixed monthly fee.
    > Now I have a choice I can either buy the journeys in bulk at a very
    > much reduced rate or I can pay per journey and it is exactly the same
    > with Vonage and many other phone companies with the exception of BT
    > who clearly state their top package includes line RENTAL and ALL
    > calls. You cannot rent a line from Vonage has they have no lines to
    > rent .
    >

    Mobile operators do not have lines to rent but charge a line rental or boast
    about not charging the line rental (e.g. Virgin, EasyMobile) - which implies
    they could do if they decided to. I do not want to get hang up on a meaning
    of the word rental but to me there is a question of the payment of either
    1) a fixed irreducible monthly fee or
    2) no monthly fee at all and paying only for calls (pay as you go).

    I am not saying what and who is better but as far as I understand it I do
    not have that second option with Vonage. In other words, taking your
    example, I do not have that option paying for just one bus journey. I just
    want to be clear about it.
    Thanks
    Roman
    r_mervart, Jul 21, 2005
    #16
  17. Stephane M

    Guest

    On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:24:46 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:


    >But it *is* a charge I have to pay in order to use the service..! I can't
    >have a Vonage account without paying money every month whether I make any
    >calls or not, or can I..?

    Just has you have to pay money every month to BT and TW Ivor with
    Vonage you can pick up the phone and make has many calls has you like
    totally free .
    >What if I don't make any calls..?

    What if you don't make any calls on BT or TW lines you still have to
    pay 20.00 + pr month ! .

    >> You said yourself the other night if you want quality you have to pay
    >> for it and I have proved this fact time and time again over the years,
    >> the differance between Sipgate and Vonage is like going in the London
    >> Hilton for dinner and going in Joe's cafe round the corner .

    >
    >But I like sausage & chips..!

    Don't sidestep the issue Ivor and its time I practiced what I preach
    also, I have had to pay out £ 20.00 in the last 24 hrs when 14.20
    would have been sufficient if I only I had remembered that cheap is
    nasty :))) .
    , Jul 21, 2005
    #17
  18. Stephane M

    Guest

    On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:54:32 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:
    >As I told you before, I'd struggle to make £9.99 of calls in a year, never
    >mind a month..! Most of my calls are to mobiles, so I use the mobile for
    >that, or Sipgate users, which are free anyway, so what I'd do with a
    >tenner's worth of calls to landlines in a month I have no idea..!


    Ivor you have stated that you have both BT and TW land lines how do
    you justify paying line rental on TWO land lines on which you cannot
    make a single call with out paying a call charge when you are so
    vehemently opposed to paying line rental ??????. I have two at present
    also , the TW line should have been gone last Friday and would have
    been had TW not proved to me once again that they are has NONE
    customer oriented has Sipgate .
    , Jul 21, 2005
    #18
  19. Stephane M

    Guest

    On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:15:50 GMT, "r_mervart"
    <> wrote:
    >I do not have that option paying for just one bus journey. I just
    >want to be clear about it.

    Correct you pay them 9.99 a month if you make a 1000 calls or none it
    is that simple .
    This is another large argument that I have with Sipgate they offer a
    service which gives customers 1000 minutes a month for 5.99 but do
    they want paying 5.99 a month NO DO THEY HELL they want a tenner a
    month come what may they do not accept payments of less than a tenner
    which in my opinion is totally out of order .
    , Jul 21, 2005
    #19
  20. Stephane M

    r_mervart Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:15:50 GMT, "r_mervart"
    > <> wrote:
    > >I do not have that option paying for just one bus journey. I just
    > >want to be clear about it.

    > Correct you pay them 9.99 a month if you make a 1000 calls or none it
    > is that simple .
    > This is another large argument that I have with Sipgate they offer a
    > service which gives customers 1000 minutes a month for 5.99 but do
    > they want paying 5.99 a month NO DO THEY HELL they want a tenner a
    > month come what may they do not accept payments of less than a tenner
    > which in my opinion is totally out of order .


    OK, so I am clear on the first point now. The payment for service with
    Sipgate, as you describe it, is rather strange. I presume you will not have
    to pay another tenner until you made calls worth £10 even if it takes
    longer than a month?
    Roman
    r_mervart, Jul 21, 2005
    #20
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