Backup

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006.

  1. Which software would you recommend for backup and why?

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/spraaktjaenster/oversattning.php
    Ð¡ÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ñреда 1 феврапъ 2006
    Tänään on keskiviikko, 26. helmikuu 2006
    今天二零零六年二月一日
    星期三
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:KYZDf.43631$...
    > Which software would you recommend for backup and why?



    Does any of you have tested
    Symantec Norton Ghost 10.0
    Symantec Norton SystemWorks 2006 Premier
    Symantec Backup Exec 10d
    and
    Symantec LiveState Recovery
    ?
    Were you satisfied?
    Which are the main differences among these softwares?


    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/spraaktjaenster/oversattning.php
    Ð¡ÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ñреда 1 феврапъ 2006
    Tänään on keskiviikko, 26. helmikuu 2006
    今天二零零六年二月一日
    星期三
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #2
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  3. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:04:58 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >Which software would you recommend for backup and why?


    any, because its necessary.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Feb 1, 2006
    #3
  4. "Jim Watt" <_way> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:04:58 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Which software would you recommend for backup and why?

    >
    > any, because its necessary.


    Fine, but what are the main differences among these 4 alternatives?
    Do they have any e-mail adress I can write to for this kind of questions?



    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/faktaomitalien.php
    Write for peace in peace
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #4
  5. "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:rB%Df.43651$...
    >
    > "Jim Watt" <_way> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:...
    > > On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:04:58 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > > <> wrote:
    > >
    > > >Which software would you recommend for backup and why?

    > >
    > > any, because its necessary.

    >
    > Fine, but what are the main differences among these 4 alternatives?
    > Do they have any e-mail adress I can write to for this kind of questions?



    I mean, does Symantec have an e-mailadress I can write to for this kind of
    questions?


    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/faktaomitalien.php
    Write for peace in peace
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #5
  6. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Gerard Bok Guest

    On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:02:08 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Luigi Donatello Asero" <> skrev i meddelandet
    >news:rB%Df.43651$...
    >>
    >> "Jim Watt" <_way> skrev i meddelandet
    >> news:...
    >> > On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:04:58 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    >> > <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> > >Which software would you recommend for backup and why?
    >> >
    >> > any, because its necessary.

    >>
    >> Fine, but what are the main differences among these 4 alternatives?
    >> Do they have any e-mail adress I can write to for this kind of questions?

    >
    >
    >I mean, does Symantec have an e-mailadress I can write to for this kind of
    >questions?


    Yes, they have. And they charge it to you as an 'incident'.
    Expect around 30 euro ex tax. (Some US $ 35)
    And if you allow me to make a --free-- prediction: they will tell
    you that their product performs best :)

    As to your original question: There just is no black and white
    answer.
    If you quickly need to restore a disk full of data unto the same
    system, an image (Ghost, Acronis True Image) is by far the most
    comfortable way to go.
    If you want to retreive just some files, a normal backup will be
    easier.

    Rule #1: any backup is better than no backup

    Rule #2: think, what you want to be protected from.
    Accidental delete? Virus that encrypts/wipes your personal files?
    Theft of the entire PC ? Fire ? Hardware malfunction ? etc.

    Rule #3: determine your goal.
    Retreive all data, no matter how ? Continue your business
    operation with minimal disruption ? Provide audit data for future
    use ?etc.

    Please note: rule #1 is both solid and complete, the others are
    just a minor part of the full story :)

    --
    Kind regards,
    Gerard Bok
     
    Gerard Bok, Feb 1, 2006
    #6
  7. "Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:02:08 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > <> wrote:


    > >I mean, does Symantec have an e-mailadress I can write to for this kind

    of
    > >questions?

    >
    > Yes, they have. And they charge it to you as an 'incident'.
    > Expect around 30 euro ex tax. (Some US $ 35)


    Do you mean that they charge a customer to give information about a product
    which one might want to buy?

    > And if you allow me to make a --free-- prediction: they will tell
    > you that their product performs best :)


    I can imagine that.

    > As to your original question: There just is no black and white
    > answer.
    > If you quickly need to restore a disk full of data unto the same
    > system, an image (Ghost, Acronis True Image) is by far the most
    > comfortable way to go.


    I need backup for several things, website files and
    book-keeping software for example.
    I want to backup data into CDs

    > If you want to retreive just some files, a normal backup will be
    > easier.
    >
    > Rule #1: any backup is better than no backup


    I agree
    > Rule #2: think, what you want to be protected from.
    > Accidental delete? Virus that encrypts/wipes your personal files?
    > Theft of the entire PC ? Fire ? Hardware malfunction ? etc.


    See above. I would like to backup data into several CDs

    > Rule #3: determine your goal.
    > Retreive all data, no matter how ? Continue your business
    > operation with minimal disruption ? Provide audit data for future
    > use ?etc.

    Continue my business operation with minimal disruption and backup data in a
    safe way


    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/s...ia/riomaggiore/boende-i-ligurien-sovrum-1.php
    Ð¡ÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ñреда 1 феврапъ 2006
    Tänään on keskiviikko, 26. helmikuu 2006
    今天二零零六年二月一日
    星期三
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #7
  8. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Zilbandy Guest

    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:

    >Which software would you recommend for backup and why?


    Acronis True Image, because it works and images stored on removable
    usb drives can be restored by just booting from a rescue cd. No need
    to load Windows to recover.
    --
    Zilbandy - Tucson, Arizona USA <zil@zilbandyREMOVE THIS.com>
    Dead Suburban's Home Page: http://zilbandy.com/suburb/
    PGP Public Key: http://zilbandy.com/pgpkey.htm
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Zilbandy, Feb 1, 2006
    #8
  9. "Zilbandy" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:
    >
    > >Which software would you recommend for backup and why?

    >
    > Acronis True Image, because it works and images stored on removable
    > usb drives can be restored by just booting from a rescue cd. No need
    > to load Windows to recover.



    Is it compatible with Symantec Norton Internet Security 2006
    or do they enter into conflict with each other somehow?
    One reason why I thought about
    Symantec Norton Ghost 10.0
    Symantec Norton SystemWorks 2006 Premier
    is that they are probably compatible with
    Symantec Norton Internet Security 2006 and complete each other.
    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/s...ia/riomaggiore/boende-i-ligurien-sovrum-1.php
    Ð¡ÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ñреда 1 феврапъ 2006
    Tänään on keskiviikko, 26. helmikuu 2006
    今天二零零六年二月一日
    星期三
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #9
  10. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Gerard Bok Guest

    On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:00:24 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    >news:...
    >> On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:02:08 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    >> <> wrote:

    >
    >> >I mean, does Symantec have an e-mailadress I can write to for this kind

    >of
    >> >questions?

    >>
    >> Yes, they have. And they charge it to you as an 'incident'.
    >> Expect around 30 euro ex tax. (Some US $ 35)

    >
    >Do you mean that they charge a customer to give information about a product
    >which one might want to buy?


    They provide free information on their website.
    If you require personal attention, they charge it as an incident.

    >I need backup for several things, website files and
    > book-keeping software for example.


    In that case, it is probably wise to make sure that your data is
    not stored on the same partition as your OS.
    Say, Windows on C:, your data on D:

    >> Rule #3: determine your goal.
    >> Retreive all data, no matter how ? Continue your business
    >> operation with minimal disruption ? Provide audit data for future
    >> use ?etc.

    >Continue my business operation with minimal disruption and backup data in a
    >safe way


    OK. Rule #3a.
    Match your requirements with your budget.
    Running a shadow PC, with automatic data replication from your
    main PC usually proves cost effective just after the first
    incident :)

    --
    Kind regards,
    Gerard Bok
     
    Gerard Bok, Feb 1, 2006
    #10
  11. "Zilbandy" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:
    >
    > >Which software would you recommend for backup and why?

    >
    > Acronis True Image, because it works and images stored on removable
    > usb drives can be restored by just booting from a rescue cd. No need
    > to load Windows to recover.
    > --


    Also, I wonder whether they only accept payments by credit cards.
    Some softwares from Symantec are sold on shops in Sweden as well.
    Do they offer product support?


    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/s...ia/riomaggiore/boende-i-ligurien-sovrum-1.php
    Ð¡ÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ñреда 1 феврапъ 2006
    Tänään on keskiviikko, 26. helmikuu 2006
    今天二零零六年二月一日
    星期三
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #11
  12. "Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:00:24 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    > >news:...
    > >> On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:02:08 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > >> <> wrote:

    > >
    > >> >I mean, does Symantec have an e-mailadress I can write to for this

    kind
    > >of
    > >> >questions?
    > >>
    > >> Yes, they have. And they charge it to you as an 'incident'.
    > >> Expect around 30 euro ex tax. (Some US $ 35)

    > >
    > >Do you mean that they charge a customer to give information about a

    product
    > >which one might want to buy?

    >
    > They provide free information on their website.
    > If you require personal attention, they charge it as an incident.
    >
    > >I need backup for several things, website files and
    > > book-keeping software for example.

    >
    > In that case, it is probably wise to make sure that your data is
    > not stored on the same partition as your OS.
    > Say, Windows on C:, your data on D:



    Well, if the software automatically replicated data from
    the book-keeping software into CDs and I inserted a new CD every time it is
    full and kept it inserted while working either on the book-keeping software
    or on the website or something else I needed replicated, I would not need
    divide the hard disk into several partitions, would I?
    In any case, would the software create new partitions automatically or not?

    > >> Rule #3: determine your goal.
    > >> Retreive all data, no matter how ? Continue your business
    > >> operation with minimal disruption ? Provide audit data for future
    > >> use ?etc.

    > >Continue my business operation with minimal disruption and backup data in

    a
    > >safe way

    >
    > OK. Rule #3a.
    > Match your requirements with your budget.
    > Running a shadow PC, with automatic data replication from your
    > main PC usually proves cost effective just after the first
    > incident :)


    So, you mean that automatic data replication is more costing effetctive than
    paying for recovery for each incident which should happen, don´t you?

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/s...ia/riomaggiore/boende-i-ligurien-sovrum-1.php
    Ð¡ÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ñреда 1 феврапъ 2006
    Tänään on keskiviikko, 26. helmikuu 2006
    今天二零零六年二月一日
    星期三
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #12
  13. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Gerard Bok Guest

    On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:25:55 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >"Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    >news:...
    >> On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:00:24 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    >> <> wrote:


    >> >I need backup for several things, website files and
    >> > book-keeping software for example.

    >>
    >> In that case, it is probably wise to make sure that your data is
    >> not stored on the same partition as your OS.
    >> Say, Windows on C:, your data on D:

    >
    >
    >Well, if the software automatically replicated data from
    >the book-keeping software into CDs


    I think that's a scenario you best forget as soon as possible.
    Replicate to a running system.
    Backup on other media (like CDR or DVD).

    Don't expect book-keeping software to run if you just have copies
    of the files. It's probably far more complex. Consult the
    software's supplier for a viable way to backup their system.

    > something else I needed replicated, I would not need
    >divide the hard disk into several partitions, would I?


    If you keep data and OS on the same partition you will need to
    replicate --and backup-- that entire partition. And that's quite
    a challenge as several 'open files' cause problems only the best
    backup software can cope with. And it produces datastream with a
    very low 'yield'. (Backed up data versus viable data.)

    >In any case, would the software create new partitions automatically or not?


    It never will. Only an OS installation CD will perform such a
    task.

    >> >> Rule #3: determine your goal.
    >> >> Retreive all data, no matter how ? Continue your business
    >> >> operation with minimal disruption ? Provide audit data for future
    >> >> use ?etc.
    >> >Continue my business operation with minimal disruption and backup data in
    >> >a safe way

    >>
    >> OK. Rule #3a.
    >> Match your requirements with your budget.
    >> Running a shadow PC, with automatic data replication from your
    >> main PC usually proves cost effective just after the first
    >> incident :)

    >
    >So, you mean that automatic data replication is more costing effetctive than
    >paying for recovery for each incident which should happen, don´t you?


    As a rule, any (external) recovery will cost you far more than an
    extra PC would :)

    Say, you operate a business from (mainly) a single PC and you
    want that business to keep running uninterrupted, a second PC
    with data replication (and an UPS) would be quite a viable
    option.

    You have to decide what it would cost you if your (main) PC fails
    for 10 minutes, for an hour, for half a day, a day, etc.
    That is, the costs of your business being unoperational added to
    the costs you incur to restore to a running system.
    And keep in mind, that if you run into a hardware failure, you
    are likely to need an extra PC anyway.

    --
    Kind regards,
    Gerard Bok
     
    Gerard Bok, Feb 1, 2006
    #13
  14. "Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:25:55 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >"Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    > >news:...
    > >> On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:00:24 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > >> <> wrote:

    >
    > >> >I need backup for several things, website files and
    > >> > book-keeping software for example.
    > >>
    > >> In that case, it is probably wise to make sure that your data is
    > >> not stored on the same partition as your OS.
    > >> Say, Windows on C:, your data on D:

    > >
    > >
    > >Well, if the software automatically replicated data from
    > >the book-keeping software into CDs

    >
    > I think that's a scenario you best forget as soon as possible.
    > Replicate to a running system.
    > Backup on other media (like CDR or DVD).
    >
    > Don't expect book-keeping software to run if you just have copies
    > of the files. It's probably far more complex. Consult the
    > software's supplier for a viable way to backup their system.


    I have the original book-keeping software.
    I was talking about backing up files.
    I have already talked with software´s supplier and I was told that this
    software does not replicate automatically but only afterwards.
    Now, please read what they say about this Symantec software
    http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/system_performance/nswpr2006/index.html
    > > something else I needed replicated, I would not need
    > >divide the hard disk into several partitions, would I?

    >
    > If you keep data and OS on the same partition you will need to
    > replicate --and backup-- that entire partition. And that's quite
    > a challenge as several 'open files' cause problems only the best
    > backup software can cope with. And it produces datastream with a
    > very low 'yield'. (Backed up data versus viable data.)


    Fine, and which would be the best backup software in your opinion?

    > As a rule, any (external) recovery will cost you far more than an
    > extra PC would :)
    >
    > Say, you operate a business from (mainly) a single PC and you
    > want that business to keep running uninterrupted, a second PC
    > with data replication (and an UPS) would be quite a viable
    > option.


    But in this case if the first PC were attacked the second would be as
    well...
    > And keep in mind, that if you run into a hardware failure, you
    > are likely to need an extra PC anyway.

    That´s one of the reasons why the backing up should be made on external
    units such as CDs, I think..

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/s...ia/riomaggiore/boende-i-ligurien-sovrum-1.php
    Ð¡ÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ñреда 1 феврапъ 2006
    Tänään on keskiviikko, 26. helmikuu 2006
    今天二零零六年二月一日
    星期三
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #14
  15. "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:OO2Ef.155049$...
    >
    > "Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:...
    > > On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:25:55 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > > <> wrote:
    > > Don't expect book-keeping software to run if you just have copies
    > > of the files. It's probably far more complex. Consult the
    > > software's supplier for a viable way to backup their system.

    >
    > I have the original book-keeping software.
    > I was talking about backing up files.
    > I have already talked with software´s supplier and I was told that this
    > software does not replicate automatically but only afterwards.
    > Now, please read what they say about this Symantec software
    >

    http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/system_performance/nswpr2006/index.html
    They talk about

    "automatically backing up everything on your compute"
    Do you mean that I could not automatically backup into CDs?
    Last but not least if the computer were stolen I would lose my backup if it
    were on the harddisk...

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/s...ia/riomaggiore/boende-i-ligurien-sovrum-1.php
    Ð¡ÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ñреда 1 феврапъ 2006
    Tänään on keskiviikko, 26. helmikuu 2006
    今天二零零六年二月一日
    星期三
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Feb 1, 2006
    #15
  16. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Gerard Bok Guest

    On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:35:42 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >"Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    >news:...
    >> On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:25:55 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >"Gerard Bok" <> skrev i meddelandet
    >> >news:...
    >> >> On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:00:24 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    >> >> <> wrote:

    >>
    >> >> >I need backup for several things, website files and
    >> >> > book-keeping software for example.
    >> >>
    >> >> In that case, it is probably wise to make sure that your data is
    >> >> not stored on the same partition as your OS.
    >> >> Say, Windows on C:, your data on D:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >Well, if the software automatically replicated data from
    >> >the book-keeping software into CDs

    >>
    >> I think that's a scenario you best forget as soon as possible.
    >> Replicate to a running system.
    >> Backup on other media (like CDR or DVD).
    >>
    >> Don't expect book-keeping software to run if you just have copies
    >> of the files. It's probably far more complex. Consult the
    >> software's supplier for a viable way to backup their system.

    >
    >I have the original book-keeping software.
    >I was talking about backing up files.
    >I have already talked with software´s supplier and I was told that this
    >software does not replicate automatically but only afterwards.


    That's rather normal for book keeping applications.
    You start to enter a transaction. That gets journaled, modifies
    several files/accounts and only after the transaction is fully
    'booked' your books are in balance again.

    Some systems allow a backup to be made at that stage, most only
    allow a (valid) backup after the application is closed and all
    data is commited unto the disk. And even then you need to verify
    that you have a valid backup, as many systems use e.g. registry
    settings to keep tabs (and to defend against manipulation of
    their files!)

    >Now, please read what they say about this Symantec software
    >http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/system_performance/nswpr2006/index.html


    Sure. Have you read my sales pitch ?
    You realy NEED my product, it's the BEST you'll ever find...

    There are 3 kinds of liars: common liars, huge liars and sales
    reps. Correction: they don't lie, they 'appetize the picture' :)

    >Fine, and which would be the best backup software in your opinion?


    As said earlier: there is no single 'one product fits all'
    solution. (And I'm quite happy with that situation as I have to
    earn a living as well.)

    >> As a rule, any (external) recovery will cost you far more than an
    >> extra PC would :)
    >>
    >> Say, you operate a business from (mainly) a single PC and you
    >> want that business to keep running uninterrupted, a second PC
    >> with data replication (and an UPS) would be quite a viable
    >> option.

    >
    >But in this case if the first PC were attacked the second would be as
    >well...
    >> And keep in mind, that if you run into a hardware failure, you
    >> are likely to need an extra PC anyway.

    >That´s one of the reasons why the backing up should be made on external
    >units such as CDs, I think..


    I'm not advocating to employ 'only a backup PC'. If your business
    seriously needs an operation PC, you'll need both.
    A stand-by PC to take over if the main PC fails.
    And off site stored backup(s) to cope with fire, theft,
    earthquakes, avalances (in Sweden ?) etc.
    And probably for future record keeping.

    --
    Kind regards,
    Gerard Bok
     
    Gerard Bok, Feb 1, 2006
    #16
  17. Luigi Donatello Asero

    nemo_outis Guest

    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in
    news:nN1Ef.43663$:

    ....snip...
    > Well, if the software automatically replicated data from
    > the book-keeping software into CDs and I inserted a new CD every time
    > it is full and kept it inserted while working either on the
    > book-keeping software or on the website or something else I needed
    > replicated, I would not need divide the hard disk into several
    > partitions, would I? In any case, would the software create new
    > partitions automatically or not?



    Backing up to tape, CDs, or DVDs, while feasible, is a PITA. Tedious and
    tiresome procedures are the enemy of the iron self-discipline needed to
    regularly make backups. For that reason, I put convenience high on the
    list. Accordingly I recommend backing up to HD - preferably a removable
    one (either get a "caddy" HD system for $25 or so, or, even better, use an
    external USB drive - it's best to store the drive offsite or at least some
    distance from the computer).

    The newer versions of Ghost, Acronis, etc. permit live backups (and
    restores) with the system still up, and the latest versions support
    incremental and differential backups, and now even partial backups (e.g.,
    just the Documents & Settings directory tree)

    At less than $1/gigabyte for HDs, backup is now dirt cheap.

    Regards,
     
    nemo_outis, Feb 1, 2006
    #17
  18. nemo_outis wrote:

    > Backing up to tape, CDs, or DVDs, while feasible, is a PITA. Tedious and
    > tiresome procedures are the enemy of the iron self-discipline needed to
    > regularly make backups. For that reason, I put convenience high on the
    > list. Accordingly I recommend backing up to HD - preferably a removable
    > one (either get a "caddy" HD system for $25 or so, or, even better, use an
    > external USB drive - it's best to store the drive offsite or at least some
    > distance from the computer).


    That has got to be one of the dumbest paragraphs you've typed to date.
    First you claim traditional backup methods are a PITA, when they're not.
    Unless you consider things like swapping media at the end of the day or
    when a "change the tape" idiot light comes on some sort of major
    undertaking I suppose.

    Then you "advise" readers to use a backup media that's exactly as
    vulnerable to compromise as their working media is, opening your backups
    up to not only malicious attacks and other system failures, but those
    lazy, incompetent users you 3elude to above who can't change a tape when
    told to do so. You know they're going to want to use "Drive Z" to store
    all those MP3's and shit. Suddenly your "backup" media is just another
    drive with copies of some of your other data on it. Not really a backup at
    all.

    You also completely miss the "all your eggs in one basked" problem.
    There's a very good reason for doing varied incremental/full backups and
    using numerous media Nemo. Shit happens. And when you need those backups
    but your "hard drive" solution is corrupt or fails you're toast. If your
    tape from yesterday fails, you use the prior one. You may still loose some
    data, but you're not rebuilding all of it.

    Then, if throwing stones at users and suggesting they defeat most if not
    all of what making backups is about, you flip flop back to making your
    whole crippled "solution" an even BIGGER pain in the ass. You claim it's
    too much trouble for people to change tapes or CDs on a regular basis,
    but you tell posters they should take an even more more fragile media
    and store it off site somewhere. Like they're going to drive 20 miles
    every day just to retrieve their USB drive, wait for backups to
    complete, then take it back to storage again.

    Yeah yeah yeah..... you're about to launch into some tirade about how you
    meant this and I don't unsderstand that to defend this unconsidered answer
    the same way you try to defend all the other dictionary inspired but
    technically inept advice you've given, but the simple facts of the matter
    will remain even after I've granted you that last word.

    Hard drive backup solutions are less secure and no less a PITA than any
    other solution if they're done properly. Hard drive backups are also going
    to be less reliable and more expensive if done properly. All in all, hard
    drives are a very poor backup media that promote and enable very poor
    backup practices. Not a serious consideration at all unless you're better
    funded and staffed than most small to medium size businesses, and
    certainly almost all individuals.
     
    Borked Pseudo Mailed, Feb 1, 2006
    #18
  19. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Todd H. Guest

    Borked Pseudo Mailed <> writes:
    > nemo_outis wrote:
    >
    > > Backing up to tape, CDs, or DVDs, while feasible, is a PITA.
    > > Tedious and tiresome procedures are the enemy of the iron
    > > self-discipline needed to regularly make backups. For that
    > > reason, I put convenience high on the list. Accordingly I
    > > recommend backing up to HD - preferably a removable one (either
    > > get a "caddy" HD system for $25 or so, or, even better, use an
    > > external USB drive - it's best to store the drive offsite or at
    > > least some distance from the computer).

    >
    > That has got to be one of the dumbest paragraphs you've typed to date.
    > First you claim traditional backup methods are a PITA, when they're
    > not.


    I disagree--Nemo's dead on on this -- the traditional methods ARE at
    PITA. That's why no one does them.

    Why? Because windows doesn't include reasonable backup software
    that's usable for folks, and people even with dvd writers, aren't keen
    on swapping 10 or more DVD's through their system to backup, and not
    to mention all external media devices writing to tape or optical disks
    tend to be slow. Hell, does windows backup even deal with multiple
    disks? I haven't even checked lately, that's how much I've given up
    on windows backup. And the general user populace just isn't willing
    to spend money on backup software, even if we all agree that htey
    should.

    Hard drives with true one-button backup are making it convenient
    enough for people to take periodic fulls ystem backups without the
    hassle of additional media swapping.

    Remember, I'm talking about the general user populace here. Among all
    things, they're lazy, and hard drive backup is really hte lowest
    barrier thing we've seen on the market to date that I can consistently
    talk a 50-something-year-old proprietor of a 2-5 man shop (who has all
    sorts of other things to worry about) to do regularly.

    Best Regards,
    --
    Todd H.
    http://www.toddh.net/
     
    Todd H., Feb 1, 2006
    #19
  20. Luigi Donatello Asero

    nemo_outis Guest

    Borked Pseudo Mailed <> wrote in
    news::

    > nemo_outis wrote:
    >

    ....snip Borky's silly posturing...




    1. Do tell me how many folks have the patience to back up a 400-
    gig drive to CDs.

    2. HD backups are many times faster than CDs or DVDs and can be
    performed unattended. A decent tape drive will cost several times more
    than even a big HD (and that's not counting the SCSI card) and tape is
    notoriously unrobust. CDs and DVDs aren't much better and the likelihood
    of at least one CD in a set of perhaps 50 failing (or just getting
    misplaced/lost) on, say, a primary Ghost backup (rendering recovery
    somewhere between difficult and impossible) is quite high.

    3. The MTBF of most modern HDs is 100,000 hrs and up. The chance
    of a backup drive seeing more than a few percent of that is remote (e.g.
    two hours once a week for 10 years: 1%). That both it and the drive it
    backs up would fail simultaneously is right up there with being hit with an
    asteroid. However, if you're the ultimate paranoid belt-and-suspenders
    man, back up to TWO independent HDs (either as true duplicates or
    alternated). It's still way faster than CDs, DVDs, or tape (and cheaper
    too).

    4. Offsite backup for most users is as simple as keeping the home
    backup at work (and vice-versa for small offices). Child's play. However,
    just keeping the USB HD backup in the garage wll be sufficient "off-site-
    ness" for many.

    Regards,

    PS The overwhelming risk wrt to backup for home users is failure to do it.
    Anything that mitigates that primary risk and overcomes inertia, apathy,
    and avoidance is a giant step forward. Backup to HDs performs that role
    with maximum convenience and entirely satisfactory reliability.
     
    nemo_outis, Feb 1, 2006
    #20
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