Back to multi-booting the RAID - again. . .

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Tony Sperling, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. Over the years, I've kept my multi-boot configurations in a fairly short
    leash and they've come and gone with regularity. When I set up the present
    64bit system, I wanted a RAID and I wanted to keep it reasonably clean with
    just the XP x64 and one Linux (to keep abreast with RAID support on Linux).

    Things got complicated when several of the simulators I depend on turned out
    to install, but not run in a 64bit environment and soon I fell back to
    spinal reactions and I had three systems booting on that RAID. All was well
    and completely uneventful for the last couple of years, but RAID support on
    Linux is closely attached to the Uncertainty Principle (unless you want
    Software RAID), and I didn't feel I could depend on the frequent updates to
    'slip in there' in the seemless fashion you'd like for a workhorse
    production system. So, Linux was elbow'ed out of there, but I kept the Grub
    boot manager hanging around out of sentimentality.

    Then, updates took care of the simulators one-by-one, and I was in a
    situation where I could see myself having most everything installed in one
    single system on that RAID. Since the simulators are of the Racing kind, I
    needed something else beyond the Joystick, and I bought a very expensive
    Racing Wheel Controler, and even that had 64bit drivers and all was as
    'honky-dorey' as can be.

    I removed the 32bit XP system, and I felt that Grub wasn't making much sense
    any longer so I inserted the 64bit XP system DVD and ran FIXMBR. Before
    removing Grub, but after removing XP, I had installed everything onto XP 64
    and all went well, the Simulators started up fine, and the Controler was
    functioning and calibrated on the system, but then setting it up promptly
    crashed one of the games. I re-installed several times without any luck. The
    controler runs fine - the Simulators run fine and there is no trouble
    configuring the Controler in the one game, but it is crashing the other.

    This is the point where you'd like to rip off an arm, or something, because
    I was absolutely sure that running the 64bit FIXMBR tool would preserve the
    bootsector for that system. This is like having a zoo of perfectly well
    trained and dependable Lions, Tigers, Bears and Seals and you wake up
    wondering: "Where is the zoo?"

    O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files, but I
    can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two more, surely?

    Worse, there is absolutely nothing on the XP 64 partition root directory,
    except some HP *.DLL that belongs to the printer.

    So, I'm back to square one, more or less. I re-installed XP Home to it's old
    partition and it boots and I can access everything from there, but I need to
    restore the XP 64 boot option. I have lost count of how many times John
    (Barnes) has suggested people to make a copy of those files, and I honestly
    believed I had them stowed away somewhere, but where?

    Apparently, the complexity of having a multi-boot configuration on a RAID
    hasn't quite hit home with me yet. I was certain that the boot-sector was
    still inhabiting a well defined physical domain on the first HD, but it now
    seems as though there is no knowledge maintained of what goes where outside
    of some mathematical algorithm.


    Please, I have some chestnuts in the fire - if I can somehow save myself the
    trouble of the 'Repair Install', I'd appreciate a 'rake' right now!


    Tony. . .
     
    Tony Sperling, Feb 19, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. OK, so you installed XP 32 bit after the XP x64, correct? And now you can't
    see the XP x64, of course.

    Blogged in November of 2005...

    http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64/archive/2005/11/21/76180.aspx

    Check the Wrong Order section.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Over the years, I've kept my multi-boot configurations in a fairly short
    > leash and they've come and gone with regularity. When I set up the present
    > 64bit system, I wanted a RAID and I wanted to keep it reasonably clean
    > with just the XP x64 and one Linux (to keep abreast with RAID support on
    > Linux).
    >
    > Things got complicated when several of the simulators I depend on turned
    > out to install, but not run in a 64bit environment and soon I fell back to
    > spinal reactions and I had three systems booting on that RAID. All was
    > well and completely uneventful for the last couple of years, but RAID
    > support on Linux is closely attached to the Uncertainty Principle (unless
    > you want Software RAID), and I didn't feel I could depend on the frequent
    > updates to 'slip in there' in the seemless fashion you'd like for a
    > workhorse production system. So, Linux was elbow'ed out of there, but I
    > kept the Grub boot manager hanging around out of sentimentality.
    >
    > Then, updates took care of the simulators one-by-one, and I was in a
    > situation where I could see myself having most everything installed in one
    > single system on that RAID. Since the simulators are of the Racing kind, I
    > needed something else beyond the Joystick, and I bought a very expensive
    > Racing Wheel Controler, and even that had 64bit drivers and all was as
    > 'honky-dorey' as can be.
    >
    > I removed the 32bit XP system, and I felt that Grub wasn't making much
    > sense any longer so I inserted the 64bit XP system DVD and ran FIXMBR.
    > Before removing Grub, but after removing XP, I had installed everything
    > onto XP 64 and all went well, the Simulators started up fine, and the
    > Controler was functioning and calibrated on the system, but then setting
    > it up promptly crashed one of the games. I re-installed several times
    > without any luck. The controler runs fine - the Simulators run fine and
    > there is no trouble configuring the Controler in the one game, but it is
    > crashing the other.
    >
    > This is the point where you'd like to rip off an arm, or something,
    > because I was absolutely sure that running the 64bit FIXMBR tool would
    > preserve the bootsector for that system. This is like having a zoo of
    > perfectly well trained and dependable Lions, Tigers, Bears and Seals and
    > you wake up wondering: "Where is the zoo?"
    >
    > O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files, but
    > I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two more,
    > surely?
    >
    > Worse, there is absolutely nothing on the XP 64 partition root directory,
    > except some HP *.DLL that belongs to the printer.
    >
    > So, I'm back to square one, more or less. I re-installed XP Home to it's
    > old partition and it boots and I can access everything from there, but I
    > need to restore the XP 64 boot option. I have lost count of how many times
    > John (Barnes) has suggested people to make a copy of those files, and I
    > honestly believed I had them stowed away somewhere, but where?
    >
    > Apparently, the complexity of having a multi-boot configuration on a RAID
    > hasn't quite hit home with me yet. I was certain that the boot-sector was
    > still inhabiting a well defined physical domain on the first HD, but it
    > now seems as though there is no knowledge maintained of what goes where
    > outside of some mathematical algorithm.
    >
    >
    > Please, I have some chestnuts in the fire - if I can somehow save myself
    > the trouble of the 'Repair Install', I'd appreciate a 'rake' right now!
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Feb 19, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Tony Sperling

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Tony.

    > O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files, but
    > I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two more,
    > surely?


    There are NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM, plus Boot.ini, which is not copied from
    the CD but built on the HD by Setup. And then there is the boot sector,
    which is not a file at all; you can't use "normal" tools to copy it, delete
    it or even read it. It is simply the first physical sector of the System
    Partition. It also is written by Setup.

    This is been the startup file configuration ever since WinNT4.0, at least;
    that's where I started dual-booting, first with Win95, which I quickly
    upgraded to Win98. Then I replaced WinNT with Win2K for about 20 months,
    until Win XP arrived. Since I phased out Win98 several years ago, I ran
    only multiple installations of WinXP Pro until I added WinXP x64, which I
    never did get comfy with, mostly because ATI never produced adequate drivers
    for my All-In-Wonder card and Symantec never updated NIS 2005 to work with
    x64.

    FIXMBR, as the name suggests, fixes the MBR (Master Boot Record) which,
    along with the partition table, is on the first physical sector of the hard
    drive. This is NOT the boot sector, which is the first physical sector of
    each partition on the drive. Each physical hard disk will have a single
    MBR, plus one boot sector for each volume with an operating system
    installed. But the MBR and the boot sector are alike in that they are not
    files. They are outside the FAT or NTFS file structure and can't be touched
    by normal file handlers. You can't Xcopy or Del the MBR or boot sector; you
    can't Edit one in Notepad, either. They are created by the modern
    equivalents of FDISK and Format and by WinXP or Vista's Setup utilities and
    are not easily changed. That's why we need the Recovery Console for WinXP,
    to handle these sectors while not actually booted into Windows.

    I'm sure you know all this, Tony, but it helps to review it, just to be sure
    that we're on the same page. ;^}

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)

    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > Over the years, I've kept my multi-boot configurations in a fairly short
    > leash and they've come and gone with regularity. When I set up the present
    > 64bit system, I wanted a RAID and I wanted to keep it reasonably clean
    > with just the XP x64 and one Linux (to keep abreast with RAID support on
    > Linux).
    >
    > Things got complicated when several of the simulators I depend on turned
    > out to install, but not run in a 64bit environment and soon I fell back to
    > spinal reactions and I had three systems booting on that RAID. All was
    > well and completely uneventful for the last couple of years, but RAID
    > support on Linux is closely attached to the Uncertainty Principle (unless
    > you want Software RAID), and I didn't feel I could depend on the frequent
    > updates to 'slip in there' in the seemless fashion you'd like for a
    > workhorse production system. So, Linux was elbow'ed out of there, but I
    > kept the Grub boot manager hanging around out of sentimentality.
    >
    > Then, updates took care of the simulators one-by-one, and I was in a
    > situation where I could see myself having most everything installed in one
    > single system on that RAID. Since the simulators are of the Racing kind, I
    > needed something else beyond the Joystick, and I bought a very expensive
    > Racing Wheel Controler, and even that had 64bit drivers and all was as
    > 'honky-dorey' as can be.
    >
    > I removed the 32bit XP system, and I felt that Grub wasn't making much
    > sense any longer so I inserted the 64bit XP system DVD and ran FIXMBR.
    > Before removing Grub, but after removing XP, I had installed everything
    > onto XP 64 and all went well, the Simulators started up fine, and the
    > Controler was functioning and calibrated on the system, but then setting
    > it up promptly crashed one of the games. I re-installed several times
    > without any luck. The controler runs fine - the Simulators run fine and
    > there is no trouble configuring the Controler in the one game, but it is
    > crashing the other.
    >
    > This is the point where you'd like to rip off an arm, or something,
    > because I was absolutely sure that running the 64bit FIXMBR tool would
    > preserve the bootsector for that system. This is like having a zoo of
    > perfectly well trained and dependable Lions, Tigers, Bears and Seals and
    > you wake up wondering: "Where is the zoo?"
    >
    > O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files, but
    > I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two more,
    > surely?
    >
    > Worse, there is absolutely nothing on the XP 64 partition root directory,
    > except some HP *.DLL that belongs to the printer.
    >
    > So, I'm back to square one, more or less. I re-installed XP Home to it's
    > old partition and it boots and I can access everything from there, but I
    > need to restore the XP 64 boot option. I have lost count of how many times
    > John (Barnes) has suggested people to make a copy of those files, and I
    > honestly believed I had them stowed away somewhere, but where?
    >
    > Apparently, the complexity of having a multi-boot configuration on a RAID
    > hasn't quite hit home with me yet. I was certain that the boot-sector was
    > still inhabiting a well defined physical domain on the first HD, but it
    > now seems as though there is no knowledge maintained of what goes where
    > outside of some mathematical algorithm.
    >
    >
    > Please, I have some chestnuts in the fire - if I can somehow save myself
    > the trouble of the 'Repair Install', I'd appreciate a 'rake' right now!
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
     
    R. C. White, Feb 19, 2008
    #3
  4. It is a bit embarrasing, but it's been too long that I didn't visit
    (consult?) your blog - I'll redeem myself this very evening!

    Yes, I had everything up and running - then, re-installed XP wich made XP
    x64 unbootable. What I was interested to know right now was how to copy the
    bootfiles from the CD/DVD - after reading RC's post this is a lot clearer, I
    assume this requires editing the 'boot.ini' manually, which - since I
    removed a couple partitions in between, leaves me in need of a recap for
    (was it the MAP?) command.


    Tony. . .


    "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > OK, so you installed XP 32 bit after the XP x64, correct? And now you
    > can't see the XP x64, of course.
    >
    > Blogged in November of 2005...
    >
    > http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64/archive/2005/11/21/76180.aspx
    >
    > Check the Wrong Order section.
    >
    > --
    > Charlie.
    > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    >
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> Over the years, I've kept my multi-boot configurations in a fairly short
    >> leash and they've come and gone with regularity. When I set up the
    >> present 64bit system, I wanted a RAID and I wanted to keep it reasonably
    >> clean with just the XP x64 and one Linux (to keep abreast with RAID
    >> support on Linux).
    >>
    >> Things got complicated when several of the simulators I depend on turned
    >> out to install, but not run in a 64bit environment and soon I fell back
    >> to spinal reactions and I had three systems booting on that RAID. All was
    >> well and completely uneventful for the last couple of years, but RAID
    >> support on Linux is closely attached to the Uncertainty Principle (unless
    >> you want Software RAID), and I didn't feel I could depend on the frequent
    >> updates to 'slip in there' in the seemless fashion you'd like for a
    >> workhorse production system. So, Linux was elbow'ed out of there, but I
    >> kept the Grub boot manager hanging around out of sentimentality.
    >>
    >> Then, updates took care of the simulators one-by-one, and I was in a
    >> situation where I could see myself having most everything installed in
    >> one single system on that RAID. Since the simulators are of the Racing
    >> kind, I needed something else beyond the Joystick, and I bought a very
    >> expensive Racing Wheel Controler, and even that had 64bit drivers and all
    >> was as 'honky-dorey' as can be.
    >>
    >> I removed the 32bit XP system, and I felt that Grub wasn't making much
    >> sense any longer so I inserted the 64bit XP system DVD and ran FIXMBR.
    >> Before removing Grub, but after removing XP, I had installed everything
    >> onto XP 64 and all went well, the Simulators started up fine, and the
    >> Controler was functioning and calibrated on the system, but then setting
    >> it up promptly crashed one of the games. I re-installed several times
    >> without any luck. The controler runs fine - the Simulators run fine and
    >> there is no trouble configuring the Controler in the one game, but it is
    >> crashing the other.
    >>
    >> This is the point where you'd like to rip off an arm, or something,
    >> because I was absolutely sure that running the 64bit FIXMBR tool would
    >> preserve the bootsector for that system. This is like having a zoo of
    >> perfectly well trained and dependable Lions, Tigers, Bears and Seals and
    >> you wake up wondering: "Where is the zoo?"
    >>
    >> O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files,
    >> but I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two more,
    >> surely?
    >>
    >> Worse, there is absolutely nothing on the XP 64 partition root directory,
    >> except some HP *.DLL that belongs to the printer.
    >>
    >> So, I'm back to square one, more or less. I re-installed XP Home to it's
    >> old partition and it boots and I can access everything from there, but I
    >> need to restore the XP 64 boot option. I have lost count of how many
    >> times John (Barnes) has suggested people to make a copy of those files,
    >> and I honestly believed I had them stowed away somewhere, but where?
    >>
    >> Apparently, the complexity of having a multi-boot configuration on a RAID
    >> hasn't quite hit home with me yet. I was certain that the boot-sector was
    >> still inhabiting a well defined physical domain on the first HD, but it
    >> now seems as though there is no knowledge maintained of what goes where
    >> outside of some mathematical algorithm.
    >>
    >>
    >> Please, I have some chestnuts in the fire - if I can somehow save myself
    >> the trouble of the 'Repair Install', I'd appreciate a 'rake' right now!
    >>
    >>
    >> Tony. . .
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Feb 19, 2008
    #4
  5. Shame on you! <g> You should certainly have it on your RSS feed list.

    As you'll see from the blog, you can actually let Windows rebuild boot.ini.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > It is a bit embarrasing, but it's been too long that I didn't visit
    > (consult?) your blog - I'll redeem myself this very evening!
    >
    > Yes, I had everything up and running - then, re-installed XP wich made XP
    > x64 unbootable. What I was interested to know right now was how to copy
    > the bootfiles from the CD/DVD - after reading RC's post this is a lot
    > clearer, I assume this requires editing the 'boot.ini' manually, which -
    > since I removed a couple partitions in between, leaves me in need of a
    > recap for (was it the MAP?) command.
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> OK, so you installed XP 32 bit after the XP x64, correct? And now you
    >> can't see the XP x64, of course.
    >>
    >> Blogged in November of 2005...
    >>
    >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64/archive/2005/11/21/76180.aspx
    >>
    >> Check the Wrong Order section.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Charlie.
    >> http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    >>
    >>
    >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >>> Over the years, I've kept my multi-boot configurations in a fairly short
    >>> leash and they've come and gone with regularity. When I set up the
    >>> present 64bit system, I wanted a RAID and I wanted to keep it reasonably
    >>> clean with just the XP x64 and one Linux (to keep abreast with RAID
    >>> support on Linux).
    >>>
    >>> Things got complicated when several of the simulators I depend on turned
    >>> out to install, but not run in a 64bit environment and soon I fell back
    >>> to spinal reactions and I had three systems booting on that RAID. All
    >>> was well and completely uneventful for the last couple of years, but
    >>> RAID support on Linux is closely attached to the Uncertainty Principle
    >>> (unless you want Software RAID), and I didn't feel I could depend on the
    >>> frequent updates to 'slip in there' in the seemless fashion you'd like
    >>> for a workhorse production system. So, Linux was elbow'ed out of there,
    >>> but I kept the Grub boot manager hanging around out of sentimentality.
    >>>
    >>> Then, updates took care of the simulators one-by-one, and I was in a
    >>> situation where I could see myself having most everything installed in
    >>> one single system on that RAID. Since the simulators are of the Racing
    >>> kind, I needed something else beyond the Joystick, and I bought a very
    >>> expensive Racing Wheel Controler, and even that had 64bit drivers and
    >>> all was as 'honky-dorey' as can be.
    >>>
    >>> I removed the 32bit XP system, and I felt that Grub wasn't making much
    >>> sense any longer so I inserted the 64bit XP system DVD and ran FIXMBR.
    >>> Before removing Grub, but after removing XP, I had installed everything
    >>> onto XP 64 and all went well, the Simulators started up fine, and the
    >>> Controler was functioning and calibrated on the system, but then setting
    >>> it up promptly crashed one of the games. I re-installed several times
    >>> without any luck. The controler runs fine - the Simulators run fine and
    >>> there is no trouble configuring the Controler in the one game, but it is
    >>> crashing the other.
    >>>
    >>> This is the point where you'd like to rip off an arm, or something,
    >>> because I was absolutely sure that running the 64bit FIXMBR tool would
    >>> preserve the bootsector for that system. This is like having a zoo of
    >>> perfectly well trained and dependable Lions, Tigers, Bears and Seals and
    >>> you wake up wondering: "Where is the zoo?"
    >>>
    >>> O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files,
    >>> but I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two
    >>> more, surely?
    >>>
    >>> Worse, there is absolutely nothing on the XP 64 partition root
    >>> directory, except some HP *.DLL that belongs to the printer.
    >>>
    >>> So, I'm back to square one, more or less. I re-installed XP Home to it's
    >>> old partition and it boots and I can access everything from there, but I
    >>> need to restore the XP 64 boot option. I have lost count of how many
    >>> times John (Barnes) has suggested people to make a copy of those files,
    >>> and I honestly believed I had them stowed away somewhere, but where?
    >>>
    >>> Apparently, the complexity of having a multi-boot configuration on a
    >>> RAID hasn't quite hit home with me yet. I was certain that the
    >>> boot-sector was still inhabiting a well defined physical domain on the
    >>> first HD, but it now seems as though there is no knowledge maintained of
    >>> what goes where outside of some mathematical algorithm.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Please, I have some chestnuts in the fire - if I can somehow save myself
    >>> the trouble of the 'Repair Install', I'd appreciate a 'rake' right now!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Tony. . .
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>

    >
    >
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Feb 19, 2008
    #5
  6. Thank you, RC!

    Yes, I thought I was more confident on the background than what is emerging.
    I don't think I would ever confuse MBR with the Boot Sector. Not the
    concepts, anyhow. But thanks, for updating me on the physical differences
    between 'disk' and 'partition', in this respect. That was certainly needed.

    Moreover, I'll brush up on my filesystem expertise on Charlies blog tonight.

    Tony. . .



    "R. C. White" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi, Tony.
    >
    >> O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files,
    >> but I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two more,
    >> surely?

    >
    > There are NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM, plus Boot.ini, which is not copied from
    > the CD but built on the HD by Setup. And then there is the boot sector,
    > which is not a file at all; you can't use "normal" tools to copy it,
    > delete it or even read it. It is simply the first physical sector of the
    > System Partition. It also is written by Setup.
    >
    > This is been the startup file configuration ever since WinNT4.0, at least;
    > that's where I started dual-booting, first with Win95, which I quickly
    > upgraded to Win98. Then I replaced WinNT with Win2K for about 20 months,
    > until Win XP arrived. Since I phased out Win98 several years ago, I ran
    > only multiple installations of WinXP Pro until I added WinXP x64, which I
    > never did get comfy with, mostly because ATI never produced adequate
    > drivers for my All-In-Wonder card and Symantec never updated NIS 2005 to
    > work with x64.
    >
    > FIXMBR, as the name suggests, fixes the MBR (Master Boot Record) which,
    > along with the partition table, is on the first physical sector of the
    > hard drive. This is NOT the boot sector, which is the first physical
    > sector of each partition on the drive. Each physical hard disk will have
    > a single MBR, plus one boot sector for each volume with an operating
    > system installed. But the MBR and the boot sector are alike in that they
    > are not files. They are outside the FAT or NTFS file structure and can't
    > be touched by normal file handlers. You can't Xcopy or Del the MBR or
    > boot sector; you can't Edit one in Notepad, either. They are created by
    > the modern equivalents of FDISK and Format and by WinXP or Vista's Setup
    > utilities and are not easily changed. That's why we need the Recovery
    > Console for WinXP, to handle these sectors while not actually booted into
    > Windows.
    >
    > I'm sure you know all this, Tony, but it helps to review it, just to be
    > sure that we're on the same page. ;^}
    >
    > RC
    > --
    > R. C. White, CPA
    > San Marcos, TX
    >
    > Microsoft Windows MVP
    > (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:#...
    >> Over the years, I've kept my multi-boot configurations in a fairly short
    >> leash and they've come and gone with regularity. When I set up the
    >> present 64bit system, I wanted a RAID and I wanted to keep it reasonably
    >> clean with just the XP x64 and one Linux (to keep abreast with RAID
    >> support on Linux).
    >>
    >> Things got complicated when several of the simulators I depend on turned
    >> out to install, but not run in a 64bit environment and soon I fell back
    >> to spinal reactions and I had three systems booting on that RAID. All was
    >> well and completely uneventful for the last couple of years, but RAID
    >> support on Linux is closely attached to the Uncertainty Principle (unless
    >> you want Software RAID), and I didn't feel I could depend on the frequent
    >> updates to 'slip in there' in the seemless fashion you'd like for a
    >> workhorse production system. So, Linux was elbow'ed out of there, but I
    >> kept the Grub boot manager hanging around out of sentimentality.
    >>
    >> Then, updates took care of the simulators one-by-one, and I was in a
    >> situation where I could see myself having most everything installed in
    >> one single system on that RAID. Since the simulators are of the Racing
    >> kind, I needed something else beyond the Joystick, and I bought a very
    >> expensive Racing Wheel Controler, and even that had 64bit drivers and all
    >> was as 'honky-dorey' as can be.
    >>
    >> I removed the 32bit XP system, and I felt that Grub wasn't making much
    >> sense any longer so I inserted the 64bit XP system DVD and ran FIXMBR.
    >> Before removing Grub, but after removing XP, I had installed everything
    >> onto XP 64 and all went well, the Simulators started up fine, and the
    >> Controler was functioning and calibrated on the system, but then setting
    >> it up promptly crashed one of the games. I re-installed several times
    >> without any luck. The controler runs fine - the Simulators run fine and
    >> there is no trouble configuring the Controler in the one game, but it is
    >> crashing the other.
    >>
    >> This is the point where you'd like to rip off an arm, or something,
    >> because I was absolutely sure that running the 64bit FIXMBR tool would
    >> preserve the bootsector for that system. This is like having a zoo of
    >> perfectly well trained and dependable Lions, Tigers, Bears and Seals and
    >> you wake up wondering: "Where is the zoo?"
    >>
    >> O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files,
    >> but I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two more,
    >> surely?
    >>
    >> Worse, there is absolutely nothing on the XP 64 partition root directory,
    >> except some HP *.DLL that belongs to the printer.
    >>
    >> So, I'm back to square one, more or less. I re-installed XP Home to it's
    >> old partition and it boots and I can access everything from there, but I
    >> need to restore the XP 64 boot option. I have lost count of how many
    >> times John (Barnes) has suggested people to make a copy of those files,
    >> and I honestly believed I had them stowed away somewhere, but where?
    >>
    >> Apparently, the complexity of having a multi-boot configuration on a RAID
    >> hasn't quite hit home with me yet. I was certain that the boot-sector was
    >> still inhabiting a well defined physical domain on the first HD, but it
    >> now seems as though there is no knowledge maintained of what goes where
    >> outside of some mathematical algorithm.
    >>
    >>
    >> Please, I have some chestnuts in the fire - if I can somehow save myself
    >> the trouble of the 'Repair Install', I'd appreciate a 'rake' right now!
    >>
    >>
    >> Tony. . .

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Feb 19, 2008
    #6
  7. Tony Sperling

    John Barnes Guest

    Tony, you can drag and drop the ntldr and NTDETECT.com files directly from
    the XP64 install CD. You can rebuild the boot.ini as per Charlies blog

    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Thank you, RC!
    >
    > Yes, I thought I was more confident on the background than what is
    > emerging. I don't think I would ever confuse MBR with the Boot Sector. Not
    > the concepts, anyhow. But thanks, for updating me on the physical
    > differences between 'disk' and 'partition', in this respect. That was
    > certainly needed.
    >
    > Moreover, I'll brush up on my filesystem expertise on Charlies blog
    > tonight.
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    >
    > "R. C. White" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hi, Tony.
    >>
    >>> O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files,
    >>> but I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two
    >>> more, surely?

    >>
    >> There are NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM, plus Boot.ini, which is not copied from
    >> the CD but built on the HD by Setup. And then there is the boot sector,
    >> which is not a file at all; you can't use "normal" tools to copy it,
    >> delete it or even read it. It is simply the first physical sector of the
    >> System Partition. It also is written by Setup.
    >>
    >> This is been the startup file configuration ever since WinNT4.0, at
    >> least; that's where I started dual-booting, first with Win95, which I
    >> quickly upgraded to Win98. Then I replaced WinNT with Win2K for about 20
    >> months, until Win XP arrived. Since I phased out Win98 several years
    >> ago, I ran only multiple installations of WinXP Pro until I added WinXP
    >> x64, which I never did get comfy with, mostly because ATI never produced
    >> adequate drivers for my All-In-Wonder card and Symantec never updated NIS
    >> 2005 to work with x64.
    >>
    >> FIXMBR, as the name suggests, fixes the MBR (Master Boot Record) which,
    >> along with the partition table, is on the first physical sector of the
    >> hard drive. This is NOT the boot sector, which is the first physical
    >> sector of each partition on the drive. Each physical hard disk will have
    >> a single MBR, plus one boot sector for each volume with an operating
    >> system installed. But the MBR and the boot sector are alike in that they
    >> are not files. They are outside the FAT or NTFS file structure and can't
    >> be touched by normal file handlers. You can't Xcopy or Del the MBR or
    >> boot sector; you can't Edit one in Notepad, either. They are created by
    >> the modern equivalents of FDISK and Format and by WinXP or Vista's Setup
    >> utilities and are not easily changed. That's why we need the Recovery
    >> Console for WinXP, to handle these sectors while not actually booted into
    >> Windows.
    >>
    >> I'm sure you know all this, Tony, but it helps to review it, just to be
    >> sure that we're on the same page. ;^}
    >>
    >> RC
    >> --
    >> R. C. White, CPA
    >> San Marcos, TX
    >>
    >> Microsoft Windows MVP
    >> (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)
    >>
    >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    >> news:#...
    >>> Over the years, I've kept my multi-boot configurations in a fairly short
    >>> leash and they've come and gone with regularity. When I set up the
    >>> present 64bit system, I wanted a RAID and I wanted to keep it reasonably
    >>> clean with just the XP x64 and one Linux (to keep abreast with RAID
    >>> support on Linux).
    >>>
    >>> Things got complicated when several of the simulators I depend on turned
    >>> out to install, but not run in a 64bit environment and soon I fell back
    >>> to spinal reactions and I had three systems booting on that RAID. All
    >>> was well and completely uneventful for the last couple of years, but
    >>> RAID support on Linux is closely attached to the Uncertainty Principle
    >>> (unless you want Software RAID), and I didn't feel I could depend on the
    >>> frequent updates to 'slip in there' in the seemless fashion you'd like
    >>> for a workhorse production system. So, Linux was elbow'ed out of there,
    >>> but I kept the Grub boot manager hanging around out of sentimentality.
    >>>
    >>> Then, updates took care of the simulators one-by-one, and I was in a
    >>> situation where I could see myself having most everything installed in
    >>> one single system on that RAID. Since the simulators are of the Racing
    >>> kind, I needed something else beyond the Joystick, and I bought a very
    >>> expensive Racing Wheel Controler, and even that had 64bit drivers and
    >>> all was as 'honky-dorey' as can be.
    >>>
    >>> I removed the 32bit XP system, and I felt that Grub wasn't making much
    >>> sense any longer so I inserted the 64bit XP system DVD and ran FIXMBR.
    >>> Before removing Grub, but after removing XP, I had installed everything
    >>> onto XP 64 and all went well, the Simulators started up fine, and the
    >>> Controler was functioning and calibrated on the system, but then setting
    >>> it up promptly crashed one of the games. I re-installed several times
    >>> without any luck. The controler runs fine - the Simulators run fine and
    >>> there is no trouble configuring the Controler in the one game, but it is
    >>> crashing the other.
    >>>
    >>> This is the point where you'd like to rip off an arm, or something,
    >>> because I was absolutely sure that running the 64bit FIXMBR tool would
    >>> preserve the bootsector for that system. This is like having a zoo of
    >>> perfectly well trained and dependable Lions, Tigers, Bears and Seals and
    >>> you wake up wondering: "Where is the zoo?"
    >>>
    >>> O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files,
    >>> but I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two
    >>> more, surely?
    >>>
    >>> Worse, there is absolutely nothing on the XP 64 partition root
    >>> directory, except some HP *.DLL that belongs to the printer.
    >>>
    >>> So, I'm back to square one, more or less. I re-installed XP Home to it's
    >>> old partition and it boots and I can access everything from there, but I
    >>> need to restore the XP 64 boot option. I have lost count of how many
    >>> times John (Barnes) has suggested people to make a copy of those files,
    >>> and I honestly believed I had them stowed away somewhere, but where?
    >>>
    >>> Apparently, the complexity of having a multi-boot configuration on a
    >>> RAID hasn't quite hit home with me yet. I was certain that the
    >>> boot-sector was still inhabiting a well defined physical domain on the
    >>> first HD, but it now seems as though there is no knowledge maintained of
    >>> what goes where outside of some mathematical algorithm.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Please, I have some chestnuts in the fire - if I can somehow save myself
    >>> the trouble of the 'Repair Install', I'd appreciate a 'rake' right now!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Tony. . .

    >>

    >
    >
     
    John Barnes, Feb 19, 2008
    #7
  8. Allright, I just went through that piece of Charlie's, and it seems clear
    now, in view of that describing two fresh installations, how the boot.ini
    regeneration falls into place. And I can assure you that your exemplarily
    good advice to save a copy of it all somewhere will be adhered to.

    Thanks John and everyone, in the morning I'll be able to report back.


    Tony. . .


    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tony, you can drag and drop the ntldr and NTDETECT.com files directly from
    > the XP64 install CD. You can rebuild the boot.ini as per Charlies blog
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> Thank you, RC!
    >>
    >> Yes, I thought I was more confident on the background than what is
    >> emerging. I don't think I would ever confuse MBR with the Boot Sector.
    >> Not the concepts, anyhow. But thanks, for updating me on the physical
    >> differences between 'disk' and 'partition', in this respect. That was
    >> certainly needed.
    >>
    >> Moreover, I'll brush up on my filesystem expertise on Charlies blog
    >> tonight.
    >>
    >> Tony. . .
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "R. C. White" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Hi, Tony.
    >>>
    >>>> O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files,
    >>>> but I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two
    >>>> more, surely?
    >>>
    >>> There are NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM, plus Boot.ini, which is not copied
    >>> from the CD but built on the HD by Setup. And then there is the boot
    >>> sector, which is not a file at all; you can't use "normal" tools to copy
    >>> it, delete it or even read it. It is simply the first physical sector
    >>> of the System Partition. It also is written by Setup.
    >>>
    >>> This is been the startup file configuration ever since WinNT4.0, at
    >>> least; that's where I started dual-booting, first with Win95, which I
    >>> quickly upgraded to Win98. Then I replaced WinNT with Win2K for about
    >>> 20 months, until Win XP arrived. Since I phased out Win98 several years
    >>> ago, I ran only multiple installations of WinXP Pro until I added WinXP
    >>> x64, which I never did get comfy with, mostly because ATI never produced
    >>> adequate drivers for my All-In-Wonder card and Symantec never updated
    >>> NIS 2005 to work with x64.
    >>>
    >>> FIXMBR, as the name suggests, fixes the MBR (Master Boot Record) which,
    >>> along with the partition table, is on the first physical sector of the
    >>> hard drive. This is NOT the boot sector, which is the first physical
    >>> sector of each partition on the drive. Each physical hard disk will
    >>> have a single MBR, plus one boot sector for each volume with an
    >>> operating system installed. But the MBR and the boot sector are alike
    >>> in that they are not files. They are outside the FAT or NTFS file
    >>> structure and can't be touched by normal file handlers. You can't Xcopy
    >>> or Del the MBR or boot sector; you can't Edit one in Notepad, either.
    >>> They are created by the modern equivalents of FDISK and Format and by
    >>> WinXP or Vista's Setup utilities and are not easily changed. That's why
    >>> we need the Recovery Console for WinXP, to handle these sectors while
    >>> not actually booted into Windows.
    >>>
    >>> I'm sure you know all this, Tony, but it helps to review it, just to be
    >>> sure that we're on the same page. ;^}
    >>>
    >>> RC
    >>> --
    >>> R. C. White, CPA
    >>> San Marcos, TX
    >>>
    >>> Microsoft Windows MVP
    >>> (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)
    >>>
    >>> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:#...
    >>>> Over the years, I've kept my multi-boot configurations in a fairly
    >>>> short leash and they've come and gone with regularity. When I set up
    >>>> the present 64bit system, I wanted a RAID and I wanted to keep it
    >>>> reasonably clean with just the XP x64 and one Linux (to keep abreast
    >>>> with RAID support on Linux).
    >>>>
    >>>> Things got complicated when several of the simulators I depend on
    >>>> turned out to install, but not run in a 64bit environment and soon I
    >>>> fell back to spinal reactions and I had three systems booting on that
    >>>> RAID. All was well and completely uneventful for the last couple of
    >>>> years, but RAID support on Linux is closely attached to the Uncertainty
    >>>> Principle (unless you want Software RAID), and I didn't feel I could
    >>>> depend on the frequent updates to 'slip in there' in the seemless
    >>>> fashion you'd like for a workhorse production system. So, Linux was
    >>>> elbow'ed out of there, but I kept the Grub boot manager hanging around
    >>>> out of sentimentality.
    >>>>
    >>>> Then, updates took care of the simulators one-by-one, and I was in a
    >>>> situation where I could see myself having most everything installed in
    >>>> one single system on that RAID. Since the simulators are of the Racing
    >>>> kind, I needed something else beyond the Joystick, and I bought a very
    >>>> expensive Racing Wheel Controler, and even that had 64bit drivers and
    >>>> all was as 'honky-dorey' as can be.
    >>>>
    >>>> I removed the 32bit XP system, and I felt that Grub wasn't making much
    >>>> sense any longer so I inserted the 64bit XP system DVD and ran FIXMBR.
    >>>> Before removing Grub, but after removing XP, I had installed everything
    >>>> onto XP 64 and all went well, the Simulators started up fine, and the
    >>>> Controler was functioning and calibrated on the system, but then
    >>>> setting it up promptly crashed one of the games. I re-installed several
    >>>> times without any luck. The controler runs fine - the Simulators run
    >>>> fine and there is no trouble configuring the Controler in the one game,
    >>>> but it is crashing the other.
    >>>>
    >>>> This is the point where you'd like to rip off an arm, or something,
    >>>> because I was absolutely sure that running the 64bit FIXMBR tool would
    >>>> preserve the bootsector for that system. This is like having a zoo of
    >>>> perfectly well trained and dependable Lions, Tigers, Bears and Seals
    >>>> and you wake up wondering: "Where is the zoo?"
    >>>>
    >>>> O.K. - So I wade through the XP DVD looking for the Boot Config files,
    >>>> but I can only find NTLDR and NTDETECT. There has to be one or two
    >>>> more, surely?
    >>>>
    >>>> Worse, there is absolutely nothing on the XP 64 partition root
    >>>> directory, except some HP *.DLL that belongs to the printer.
    >>>>
    >>>> So, I'm back to square one, more or less. I re-installed XP Home to
    >>>> it's old partition and it boots and I can access everything from there,
    >>>> but I need to restore the XP 64 boot option. I have lost count of how
    >>>> many times John (Barnes) has suggested people to make a copy of those
    >>>> files, and I honestly believed I had them stowed away somewhere, but
    >>>> where?
    >>>>
    >>>> Apparently, the complexity of having a multi-boot configuration on a
    >>>> RAID hasn't quite hit home with me yet. I was certain that the
    >>>> boot-sector was still inhabiting a well defined physical domain on the
    >>>> first HD, but it now seems as though there is no knowledge maintained
    >>>> of what goes where outside of some mathematical algorithm.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Please, I have some chestnuts in the fire - if I can somehow save
    >>>> myself the trouble of the 'Repair Install', I'd appreciate a 'rake'
    >>>> right now!
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Tony. . .
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Feb 19, 2008
    #8
  9. O.K. - I'm back in. Bet you can't see the difference, but I can!

    The only surprise was when BOOTCFG asked me for the "boot designators" - I
    thought that sounded very strict and formal and hesitated. I wonder why they
    didn't use a more 'user friendly phrasing' - like "Label", or something. In
    the end I just pressed Enter and edited the thing by hand afterwards. Easy
    as can possibly be - thanks all!


    Tony. . .
     
    Tony Sperling, Feb 20, 2008
    #9
  10. Tony Sperling

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Tony.

    Congratulations! And thanks for the feedback.

    But you left out something: What DID it mean by "boot designators"? What
    did you edit by hand? Did you type in "C:"? Or "WinXP" or "Disk 0
    Partition 3" or...? Were you editing Boot.ini? Or the boot sector? Or
    what?

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)

    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > O.K. - I'm back in. Bet you can't see the difference, but I can!
    >
    > The only surprise was when BOOTCFG asked me for the "boot designators" - I
    > thought that sounded very strict and formal and hesitated. I wonder why
    > they didn't use a more 'user friendly phrasing' - like "Label", or
    > something. In the end I just pressed Enter and edited the thing by hand
    > afterwards. Easy as can possibly be - thanks all!
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
     
    R. C. White, Feb 20, 2008
    #10
  11. Ah, yes - after pondering the possibilities, I squared them down to
    'probably' be refering to the Boot Menu Label, but with a language like that
    you just don't know, do you? That is, unless you do know! I pressed enter
    and rebooted and ended up with a number of empty options in the Boot Menu +
    the original 'Home' label. So I booted into my old Home Edition and took
    away the R/O attribute from BOOT.INI and entered a Label so I can see what
    I'm doing. That's all really, except the menu was listed upside down so I
    had to correct the Default and delete a backup partition that I am not going
    to boot off anyway.

    After doing that I rebooted and everything was back to normal.

    (Boot Designators - my ass!) No, it was simply just the Label. Glad I'm not
    the only one, RC.


    Tony. . .



    "R. C. White" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi, Tony.
    >
    > Congratulations! And thanks for the feedback.
    >
    > But you left out something: What DID it mean by "boot designators"? What
    > did you edit by hand? Did you type in "C:"? Or "WinXP" or "Disk 0
    > Partition 3" or...? Were you editing Boot.ini? Or the boot sector? Or
    > what?
    >
    > RC
    > --
    > R. C. White, CPA
    > San Marcos, TX
    >
    > Microsoft Windows MVP
    > (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:#...
    >> O.K. - I'm back in. Bet you can't see the difference, but I can!
    >>
    >> The only surprise was when BOOTCFG asked me for the "boot designators" -
    >> I thought that sounded very strict and formal and hesitated. I wonder why
    >> they didn't use a more 'user friendly phrasing' - like "Label", or
    >> something. In the end I just pressed Enter and edited the thing by hand
    >> afterwards. Easy as can possibly be - thanks all!
    >>
    >>
    >> Tony. . .

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Feb 20, 2008
    #11
  12. Tony Sperling

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Tony.

    Aha! Now I know what you mean: the text labels in Boot.ini. The text
    within the "quotation marks" that defines what shows up in the Boot Menu.
    It's been several months since I worked with Boot.ini, so I had kind of
    forgotten that.

    For lurkers reading along, we mean these lines in Boot.ini:

    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
    Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(5)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Professional x64
    Edition" /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN /FASTDETECT

    The text between the quote marks is only for human eyes; the computer
    doesn't use that. It relies on the cryptic designators before the "=" sign.
    The first two, multi(0)disk(0), are always the same for most systems. But
    rdisk(0) means the first HD the computer sees when booting - rdisk(1) would
    be the second disk. And partition(2) is the second volume, whether a
    primary partition or a logical drive, on that first HD. (The system counts
    disks starting with zero and partitions on each disk starting with one.)

    When Setup creates Boot.ini, it puts the same generic label (Microsoft
    Windows XP) between those quotes every time. So we might get a menu that
    offers Windows or Windows or Windows, and it's up to us to edit the labels
    so that we can tell which is which.

    Vista does not use Boot.ini, except when dual-booting into a "previous
    operating system" like WinXP.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP
    (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)

    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ah, yes - after pondering the possibilities, I squared them down to
    > 'probably' be refering to the Boot Menu Label, but with a language like
    > that you just don't know, do you? That is, unless you do know! I pressed
    > enter and rebooted and ended up with a number of empty options in the Boot
    > Menu + the original 'Home' label. So I booted into my old Home Edition and
    > took away the R/O attribute from BOOT.INI and entered a Label so I can see
    > what I'm doing. That's all really, except the menu was listed upside down
    > so I had to correct the Default and delete a backup partition that I am
    > not going to boot off anyway.
    >
    > After doing that I rebooted and everything was back to normal.
    >
    > (Boot Designators - my ass!) No, it was simply just the Label. Glad I'm
    > not the only one, RC.
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    >
    > "R. C. White" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hi, Tony.
    >>
    >> Congratulations! And thanks for the feedback.
    >>
    >> But you left out something: What DID it mean by "boot designators"?
    >> What did you edit by hand? Did you type in "C:"? Or "WinXP" or "Disk 0
    >> Partition 3" or...? Were you editing Boot.ini? Or the boot sector? Or
    >> what?
    >>
    >> RC
    >>
    >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    >> news:#...
    >>> O.K. - I'm back in. Bet you can't see the difference, but I can!
    >>>
    >>> The only surprise was when BOOTCFG asked me for the "boot designators" -
    >>> I thought that sounded very strict and formal and hesitated. I wonder
    >>> why they didn't use a more 'user friendly phrasing' - like "Label", or
    >>> something. In the end I just pressed Enter and edited the thing by hand
    >>> afterwards. Easy as can possibly be - thanks all!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Tony. . .
     
    R. C. White, Feb 20, 2008
    #12
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