B/W Laserjet Printer shadings

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Paul, Apr 5, 2009.

  1. Paul

    Paul Guest

    Hi,

    How many shadings is available in a black
    and white laserjet printer such as the
    HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    Using the black laserjet... how many
    shadings would it convert it to? 256?
    1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??

    Now a color inkjet printer with separate
    black and tricolor cartridge such as the
    HP Deskjet 2560. How many colors would
    it produce in the paper? 16 million colors?

    J
     
    Paul, Apr 5, 2009
    #1
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  2. Paul

    Bob Larter Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > How many shadings is available in a black
    > and white laserjet printer such as the
    > HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    > printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    > Using the black laserjet... how many
    > shadings would it convert it to? 256?
    > 1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??


    64 shades, if you're lucky.

    > Now a color inkjet printer with separate
    > black and tricolor cartridge such as the
    > HP Deskjet 2560. How many colors would
    > it produce in the paper? 16 million colors?


    Maybe, but I doubt it.


    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Bob Larter, Apr 5, 2009
    #2
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  3. Paul

    Paul Guest

    On Apr 5, 8:18 pm, Bob Larter <> wrote:
    > Paul wrote:
    > > Hi,

    >
    > > How many shadings is available in a black
    > > and white laserjet printer such as the
    > > HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    > > printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    > > Using the black laserjet... how many
    > > shadings would it convert it to?  256?
    > > 1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??

    >
    > 64 shades, if you're lucky.


    How using an inkjet printer with pure black ink
    only. 64 shades too? Or is the 64 shade
    only exclusively for laser jet black printers
    of any brand?

    P


    >
    > > Now a color inkjet printer with separate
    > > black and tricolor cartridge such as the
    > > HP Deskjet 2560. How many colors would
    > > it produce in the paper? 16 million colors?

    >
    > Maybe, but I doubt it.
    >
    > --
    >     W
    >   . | ,. w ,   "Some people are alive only because
    >    \|/  \|/     it is illegal to kill them."    Perna condita delenda est
    > ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Paul, Apr 5, 2009
    #3
  4. Paul

    Paul Guest

    On Apr 5, 8:18 pm, Bob Larter <> wrote:
    > Paul wrote:
    > > Hi,

    >
    > > How many shadings is available in a black
    > > and white laserjet printer such as the
    > > HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    > > printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    > > Using the black laserjet... how many
    > > shadings would it convert it to?  256?
    > > 1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??

    >
    > 64 shades, if you're lucky.


    But 8 Bit Greyscale can produce 256 shadings.
    How come the HP Laserjet 1010 can't produce
    256 shadings? How did you calculate the 64
    shades thing? Is this 64 shade limitation also
    true in inkjet black only printing?

    P

    >
    > > Now a color inkjet printer with separate
    > > black and tricolor cartridge such as the
    > > HP Deskjet 2560. How many colors would
    > > it produce in the paper? 16 million colors?

    >
    > Maybe, but I doubt it.
    >
    > --
    >     W
    >   . | ,. w ,   "Some people are alive only because
    >    \|/  \|/     it is illegal to kill them."    Perna condita delenda est
    > ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Paul, Apr 5, 2009
    #4
  5. Paul

    Mike S. Guest

    In article <>,
    Paul <> wrote:
    >Hi,
    >
    >How many shadings is available in a black
    >and white laserjet printer such as the
    >HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    >printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    >Using the black laserjet... how many
    >shadings would it convert it to? 256?
    >1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??
    >
    >Now a color inkjet printer with separate
    >black and tricolor cartridge such as the
    >HP Deskjet 2560. How many colors would
    >it produce in the paper? 16 million colors?


    In the early days, people like Don Lancaster published tons of stuff on
    this. In short, the number depends on the resolution of the printer and
    the type of pattern (arrangements of dots) used by the printer driver to
    generate grayscale. There are different patterns, including random dot and
    various ordered patterns, each of which has different tradeoffs with
    respect to balancing the rendering of detail and of number of shades.

    An inkjet printer which can regulate the amount of ink delivered by each
    dot, has an advantage over laser printers which can only regulate the size
    and placement.
     
    Mike S., Apr 5, 2009
    #5
  6. Paul

    J. Clarke Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > On Apr 5, 8:18 pm, Bob Larter <> wrote:
    >> Paul wrote:
    >>> Hi,

    >>
    >>> How many shadings is available in a black
    >>> and white laserjet printer such as the
    >>> HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    >>> printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    >>> Using the black laserjet... how many
    >>> shadings would it convert it to? 256?
    >>> 1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??

    >>
    >> 64 shades, if you're lucky.

    >
    > But 8 Bit Greyscale can produce 256 shadings.
    > How come the HP Laserjet 1010 can't produce
    > 256 shadings? How did you calculate the 64
    > shades thing? Is this 64 shade limitation also
    > true in inkjet black only printing?


    Think about how the two work--a laser draws dry toner powder onto the paper
    by electric charge, with the toner then melted to fuse it to the paper,
    while an inkjet shoots wet ink onto the paper that soaks in and dries. So
    which one do you think is going to give you more levels of gray?

    >>> Now a color inkjet printer with separate
    >>> black and tricolor cartridge such as the
    >>> HP Deskjet 2560. How many colors would
    >>> it produce in the paper? 16 million colors?

    >>
    >> Maybe, but I doubt it.
    >>
    >> --
    >> W
    >> . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    >> \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    >> ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    J. Clarke, Apr 5, 2009
    #6
  7. Paul

    Bob Larter Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > On Apr 5, 8:18 pm, Bob Larter <> wrote:
    >> Paul wrote:
    >>> Hi,
    >>> How many shadings is available in a black
    >>> and white laserjet printer such as the
    >>> HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    >>> printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    >>> Using the black laserjet... how many
    >>> shadings would it convert it to? 256?
    >>> 1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??

    >> 64 shades, if you're lucky.

    >
    > How using an inkjet printer with pure black ink
    > only. 64 shades too? Or is the 64 shade
    > only exclusively for laser jet black printers
    > of any brand?


    This is where it starts getting dependent on your drivers & whether they
    dither, etc.


    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Bob Larter, Apr 5, 2009
    #7
  8. Paul

    Bob Larter Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > On Apr 5, 8:18 pm, Bob Larter <> wrote:
    >> Paul wrote:
    >>> Hi,
    >>> How many shadings is available in a black
    >>> and white laserjet printer such as the
    >>> HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    >>> printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    >>> Using the black laserjet... how many
    >>> shadings would it convert it to? 256?
    >>> 1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??

    >> 64 shades, if you're lucky.

    >
    > But 8 Bit Greyscale can produce 256 shadings.


    Sure, in theory. Actually producing 256 shades on paper is another story
    altogether.

    > How come the HP Laserjet 1010 can't produce
    > 256 shadings?


    See above. It's due to the practicalities of dithering or halftoning.

    > How did you calculate the 64
    > shades thing?


    It was a guesstimate from memory. It might be fewer shades than that,
    but I think 64 shades is roughly correct for most laser printers.

    > Is this 64 shade limitation also
    > true in inkjet black only printing?


    Ink jets can probably produce more shades than that.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Bob Larter, Apr 5, 2009
    #8
  9. Paul

    Don Stauffer Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > How many shadings is available in a black
    > and white laserjet printer such as the
    > HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    > printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    > Using the black laserjet... how many
    > shadings would it convert it to? 256?
    > 1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??
    >
    > Now a color inkjet printer with separate
    > black and tricolor cartridge such as the
    > HP Deskjet 2560. How many colors would
    > it produce in the paper? 16 million colors?
    >
    > J


    Assuming the inkjet uses only the black catridge, not complementary
    mixtures, a laser printer should have the same number of shades as the
    inkjet of the same pixel density- assuming a similar dot gain (which
    might, of course, NOT be the same).

    Keep in mind that different colors might have exactly the same
    luminance. That is, there will be a certain shade of blue that has the
    same reflectance as a certain shade of red. So it would not take as
    many shades as the number of colors.
     
    Don Stauffer, Apr 5, 2009
    #9
  10. Paul

    Doug Jewell Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > How many shadings is available in a black
    > and white laserjet printer such as the
    > HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    > printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    > Using the black laserjet... how many
    > shadings would it convert it to? 256?
    > 1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??

    A laser printer can print exactly 2 shades. 100% black, and
    0% black (ie white of the paper). No more, no less. To
    achieve something looking like grey they dither. The number
    of acceptible looking shades you get will depend on the
    resolution of the printer, and the dithering function within
    the driver. Since these are variables you have no control
    over, there is no one simple answer.

    If I wasn't happy with the default output from the printer
    driver, I'd convert the image to a B/W image in photoshop,
    and play with the dithering settings until I got something
    respectable. Important to make sure the image is at the
    printers ACTUAL print resolution when doing the conversion.
    Be aware that some printers claim figures like 2400dpi or
    more, but it is not real dots per inch, it is "perceived" -
    IOW, marketing speak. Most laser printers are 600dpi actual
    resolution.
    >
    > Now a color inkjet printer with separate
    > black and tricolor cartridge such as the
    > HP Deskjet 2560. How many colors would
    > it produce in the paper? 16 million colors?

    Most of the modern inkjets are capable of a few techniques
    to extend the number of colours/tones an individual dot can
    hold. A basic printer, or a colour laser can deliver
    2^[number of colour inks] distinct colours at a dot. However
    techniques such as variable droplet size and/or layering
    extend this somewhat. Most modern printers are capable of
    between 3 and 9 shades of each colour on a single dot
    (counting 0% or white as a a shade), so the number of
    distinct colours of a single dot increases to [no of
    densities]^[no of colour inks]. Once again to increase the
    number of perceived colours they employ dithering. In most
    cases the standard dithering algorithms in the drivers are
    capable of delivering true photo quality output. Another
    thing to be wary of with inkjets is that again their print
    resolutions are more marketing speak than actual resolution.
    "9600dpi" doesn't mean it puts down 9600 distinct dots in an
    inch, instead it means that over an inch it may have fired a
    nozzle 9600 times. It's probably more like 1200 actual dots,
    but it layers each dot up to 8 times, giving the 9600dpi figure.
    >
    > J



    --
    Have you ever noticed that all legal documents need to be
    completed in black or blue pen, but we vote in pencil?
     
    Doug Jewell, Apr 5, 2009
    #10
  11. Paul

    Guest

    While theory is interesting and can be helpful, I suggest in
    the end, for real life answers, do some real life test and see which
    ones do the job best for you. Remember my choice of what is best will
    not likely be your choice.

    Photography is an art and a science. For some people it is a
    science first, but for others it is an art that uses science.
     
    , Apr 6, 2009
    #11
  12. Paul

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    "Paul" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi,
    >
    > How many shadings is available in a black
    > and white laserjet printer such as the
    > HP Laserjet 1010? For example, I'm
    > printing a photo that has 16 million colors.
    > Using the black laserjet... how many
    > shadings would it convert it to? 256?
    > 1024? 50K? or 16 million shadings??
    >
    > Now a color inkjet printer with separate
    > black and tricolor cartridge such as the
    > HP Deskjet 2560. How many colors would
    > it produce in the paper? 16 million colors?
    >
    > J


    I haven't stopped to check the exact figure, but I use an HP Laserjet 1020
    which does a nice job of BW pics on glossy paper.

    I've printed a number of pics straight from files in the 5meg to 12meg
    range, and most people like them as much as BW shots done conventionally.

    Good Luck,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Apr 6, 2009
    #12
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