ATA behind Vigor router - incoming fine, no outgoing calls

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Lee, Jan 25, 2006.

  1. Lee

    Lee Guest

    Hi

    My friends have a Sipura SPA-2000 ATA behind their Vigor [non-voip model]
    internet router.

    We think we have set up port forwarding fine. The ATA registers and accepts
    incoming calls fine [rings, two-way conversation] but no outgoing dialling
    is possible. There is a short [5 sec?] dial tone but nothing happens when
    dialled. They are using Voipfone, as am I, and they cannot even call me
    within the voipfone network.

    I see this condition asked about a couple of times on the Draytek forum but
    not answered.

    What have we missed? Any ideas of things to look at?

    Cheers

    L
    Lee, Jan 25, 2006
    #1
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  2. Lee

    Jon Guest

    declared for all the world to hear...
    > Hi
    >
    > My friends have a Sipura SPA-2000 ATA behind their Vigor [non-voip model]
    > internet router.
    >
    > We think we have set up port forwarding fine. The ATA registers and accepts
    > incoming calls fine [rings, two-way conversation] but no outgoing dialling
    > is possible. There is a short [5 sec?] dial tone but nothing happens when
    > dialled. They are using Voipfone, as am I, and they cannot even call me
    > within the voipfone network.
    >
    > I see this condition asked about a couple of times on the Draytek forum but
    > not answered.
    >
    > What have we missed? Any ideas of things to look at?


    Put the ATA in the DMZ?
    --
    Regards
    Jon
    Jon, Jan 25, 2006
    #2
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  3. Lee

    TheDragon Guest

    "Jon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > declared for all the world to hear...
    >> Hi
    >>
    >> My friends have a Sipura SPA-2000 ATA behind their Vigor [non-voip model]
    >> internet router.
    >>
    >> We think we have set up port forwarding fine. The ATA registers and
    >> accepts
    >> incoming calls fine [rings, two-way conversation] but no outgoing
    >> dialling
    >> is possible. There is a short [5 sec?] dial tone but nothing happens when
    >> dialled. They are using Voipfone, as am I, and they cannot even call me
    >> within the voipfone network.
    >>
    >> I see this condition asked about a couple of times on the Draytek forum
    >> but
    >> not answered.
    >>
    >> What have we missed? Any ideas of things to look at?

    >
    > Put the ATA in the DMZ?
    > --
    > Regards
    > Jon


    No never. too dangerous. find all used ports and do it properly
    TheDragon, Jan 26, 2006
    #3
  4. Lee

    Jon Guest

    declared for all the world to hear...
    > No never. too dangerous.


    Why? What's going to happen to it? My ATA is the DMZ.
    --
    Regards
    Jon
    Jon, Jan 26, 2006
    #4
  5. Lee

    TheDragon Guest

    "Jon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > declared for all the world to hear...
    >> No never. too dangerous.

    >
    > Why? What's going to happen to it? My ATA is the DMZ.
    > --
    > Regards
    > Jon

    There are numerous attacks that can be carried out on ATA devices. Some will
    resist, some not. The Cisco ATA186 has a known flaw in older software. I am
    maybe being to security conscious, but I refuse to open ports that don't
    need opening. Placing a device in the DMZ is the ultimate sin, as there is
    nothing between the big bad world and the device.
    TheDragon, Jan 27, 2006
    #5
  6. "TheDragon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Jon" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> declared for all the world to hear...
    >>> No never. too dangerous.

    >>
    >> Why? What's going to happen to it? My ATA is the DMZ.
    >> --
    >> Regards
    >> Jon

    > There are numerous attacks that can be carried out on ATA devices. Some
    > will resist, some not. The Cisco ATA186 has a known flaw in older
    > software. I am maybe being to security conscious, but I refuse to open
    > ports that don't need opening. Placing a device in the DMZ is the ultimate
    > sin, as there is nothing between the big bad world and the device.


    You appear to have a different definition of the DMZ from that I (and I
    suspect Jon) use.

    A DMZ _is_ behind a firewall, which has the appropriate holes punched
    through for (intended) communication with the devices living within it.

    For example, my ATA lives in a DMZ and the following access to that IP is
    allowed by the firewall:

    UDP to/from any local port from anywhere [actually broader than required but
    liveable with for me].
    TCP to/from local port 5060 from anywhere [allows TCP SIP, though I've never
    actually seen it].
    TCP to/from local port 80 from internal network only [to allow me to
    configure the device].

    Attacks on the ATA can therefore only be made from
    1) a UDP vector.
    2) My internal network.
    3) within the DMZ itself.

    In writing this post I decided that there was a small posibility of a SNMP
    attack vector so I've just closed those ports...

    --
    Thomas Sandford
    Thomas Sandford, Jan 27, 2006
    #6
  7. Lee

    Lee Guest

    "Lee" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi
    >
    > My friends have a Sipura SPA-2000 ATA behind their Vigor [non-voip model]
    > internet router.
    >
    > We think we have set up port forwarding fine. The ATA registers and
    > accepts incoming calls fine [rings, two-way conversation] but no outgoing
    > dialling is possible. There is a short [5 sec?] dial tone but nothing
    > happens when dialled. They are using Voipfone, as am I, and they cannot
    > even call me within the voipfone network.
    >
    > I see this condition asked about a couple of times on the Draytek forum
    > but not answered.
    >
    > What have we missed? Any ideas of things to look at?
    >
    > Cheers
    >


    For the benefit of Googlers who come across this thread - the answer was
    here:
    http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14318615
    Lee, Jan 30, 2006
    #7
  8. Lee

    Lee Guest

    "TheDragon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Jon" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> declared for all the world to hear...
    >>> Hi
    >>>
    >>> My friends have a Sipura SPA-2000 ATA behind their Vigor [non-voip
    >>> model]
    >>> internet router.
    >>>
    >>> We think we have set up port forwarding fine. The ATA registers and
    >>> accepts
    >>> incoming calls fine [rings, two-way conversation] but no outgoing
    >>> dialling
    >>> is possible. There is a short [5 sec?] dial tone but nothing happens
    >>> when
    >>> dialled. They are using Voipfone, as am I, and they cannot even call me
    >>> within the voipfone network.
    >>>
    >>> I see this condition asked about a couple of times on the Draytek forum
    >>> but
    >>> not answered.
    >>>
    >>> What have we missed? Any ideas of things to look at?

    >>
    >> Put the ATA in the DMZ?
    >> --
    >> Regards
    >> Jon

    >
    > No never. too dangerous. find all used ports and do it properly


    Hello

    I have tried for a couple of weekends now to get this working - opening a
    variety of "Open Ports" on the Draytek. In a moment of frustration, I did
    put the Sipura ATA into the DMZ as suggested above and the box *still*
    cannot make outgoing calls. Even dialling the voipfone 155 "test" number
    fails.

    I should perhaps point out that there is no separate DMZ port on the
    Draytek, I just used the "DMZ" config form within the router. I do not know
    if this creates a "true" DMZ or simulates one...

    The DTMF Tx Method setting is on "INFO" though we have tried "Auto" and
    "Inband" too.

    The box worked fine in my house when plugged into my network behind an IPCOP
    firewall. The only difference is that my house has regular ADSL whereas my
    friends are on Blueyonder. Does anyone know if there is perhaps a known
    issue with BY and Voip?

    I would welcome any other ideas the group may have.

    L
    Lee, Feb 13, 2006
    #8
  9. Lee

    Lee Guest

    "Lee" <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "Lee" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hi
    >>
    >> My friends have a Sipura SPA-2000 ATA behind their Vigor [non-voip model]
    >> internet router.
    >>
    >> We think we have set up port forwarding fine. The ATA registers and
    >> accepts incoming calls fine [rings, two-way conversation] but no outgoing
    >> dialling is possible. There is a short [5 sec?] dial tone but nothing
    >> happens when dialled. They are using Voipfone, as am I, and they cannot
    >> even call me within the voipfone network.
    >>
    >> I see this condition asked about a couple of times on the Draytek forum
    >> but not answered.
    >>
    >> What have we missed? Any ideas of things to look at?
    >>
    >> Cheers
    >>

    >
    > For the benefit of Googlers who come across this thread - the answer was
    > here:
    > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14318615
    >
    >

    Actually this wasn't the solution. Sorry Googlers - this problem is still
    wide open and all help appreciated.
    Lee, Feb 13, 2006
    #9
  10. Lee

    alexd Guest

    Lee wrote:

    > I have tried for a couple of weekends now to get this working - opening a
    > variety of "Open Ports" on the Draytek. In a moment of frustration, I did
    > put the Sipura ATA into the DMZ as suggested above and the box *still*
    > cannot make outgoing calls. Even dialling the voipfone 155 "test" number
    > fails.
    >
    > I should perhaps point out that there is no separate DMZ port on the
    > Draytek, I just used the "DMZ" config form within the router. I do not
    > know if this creates a "true" DMZ or simulates one...


    Well it was always worth a shot! Could be handy to put a PC with softphone
    SIP client on in place of the ATA, and see if you can get any more verbose
    error information.

    > The DTMF Tx Method setting is on "INFO" though we have tried "Auto" and
    > "Inband" too.


    This shouldn't affect your ability to make calls, only the passing of DTMF
    once a call is set up.

    > The box worked fine in my house when plugged into my network behind an
    > IPCOP firewall. The only difference is that my house has regular ADSL
    > whereas my friends are on Blueyonder. Does anyone know if there is perhaps
    > a known issue with BY and Voip?


    I use Sipgate on a BY connection. To be honest, I rarely make phone calls
    with it; I tried calling a company yesterday to pay a bill over the phone,
    and it was rubbish. I made 5 attempts in 15 minutes, and the longest call
    lasted 80 seconds, before the call dropped. In the end I gave up and used
    my mobile. Later on, my girlfriend received a garbled call from a landline,
    she tried to return the call and the audio dropped out after 30 seconds.
    It's not a bandwidth issue, as I'm on 10mbit. Monitoring the connection
    with IPTraf, and apart from the customary ARP traffic and port 25
    connection attempts from all and sundry, it's just my traffic to/from
    Sipgate.

    To be honest I'm not that bothered at the moment as I still have the BT
    landline, and contract mobile with all the free minutes I can eat. I guess
    I'll look into it at some point.

    > I would welcome any other ideas the group may have.


    Let's get this clear - are you connecting with DSL or Cable? If cable, it
    makes things simpler, as you'll be presented with an ethernet connection to
    the net, so you can eliminate the router from the equation by connecting
    the ATA straight to the Cable Modem. Rumours of Drayteks being shit with
    VoIP abound, however I don't have one so I can't comment either way.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    20:47:00 up 19 days, 1:05, 3 users, load average: 1.02, 1.07, 1.07
    This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK
    alexd, Feb 13, 2006
    #10
  11. Lee

    Jono Guest

    alexd formulated the question :
    <snip>
    > Rumours of Drayteks being shit with
    > VoIP abound, however I don't have one so I can't comment either way.


    I was looking at buying one to replace a slightly lacking cheepo
    router. However, trying to get a single supplier, or the manufacturer
    to confirm whether it could handle SIP traffic was an impossibility. In
    the end, I plumped for the Linksys WRT54G & stuck the DD-WRT(Voip)
    firmware on & it works like a charm.
    Jono, Feb 13, 2006
    #11
  12. Lee

    Lee Guest

    "alexd" <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > Let's get this clear - are you connecting with DSL or Cable? If cable, it
    > makes things simpler, as you'll be presented with an ethernet connection
    > to
    > the net, so you can eliminate the router from the equation by connecting
    > the ATA straight to the Cable Modem. Rumours of Drayteks being shit with
    > VoIP abound, however I don't have one so I can't comment either way.


    D'oh! I will suggest connecting the ATA to the Cable modem and see what
    happens! Wood/trees syndrome strikes again!

    Many thanks for such a simple suggestion.

    L
    Lee, Feb 13, 2006
    #12
  13. Lee

    alexd Guest

    Jono wrote:

    > alexd formulated the question :
    > <snip>
    >> Rumours of Drayteks being shit with
    >> VoIP abound, however I don't have one so I can't comment either way.

    >
    > I was looking at buying one to replace a slightly lacking cheepo
    > router. However, trying to get a single supplier, or the manufacturer
    > to confirm whether it could handle SIP traffic was an impossibility. In
    > the end, I plumped for the Linksys WRT54G & stuck the DD-WRT(Voip)
    > firmware on & it works like a charm.


    To be honest, if I was a kit vendor, I wouldn't like to confirm whether or
    not $KIT works with $BUZZWORD unless I was absolutely sure from first hand
    experience - just imagine how pissed off you'd be if you were told it would
    work, and it doesn't.

    There's some commonly referenced statistic about an unhappy customer telling
    10 people, and a happy customer telling one, so to me, that explains your
    experience with Draytek vendors.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    21:47:04 up 20 days, 2:05, 2 users, load average: 0.06, 0.09, 0.14
    This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK
    alexd, Feb 14, 2006
    #13
  14. Lee

    Jono Guest

    alexd pretended :
    > Jono wrote:
    >
    >> alexd formulated the question :
    >> <snip>
    >>> Rumours of Drayteks being shit with
    >>> VoIP abound, however I don't have one so I can't comment either way.

    >>
    >> I was looking at buying one to replace a slightly lacking cheepo
    >> router. However, trying to get a single supplier, or the manufacturer
    >> to confirm whether it could handle SIP traffic was an impossibility. In
    >> the end, I plumped for the Linksys WRT54G & stuck the DD-WRT(Voip)
    >> firmware on & it works like a charm.

    >
    > To be honest, if I was a kit vendor, I wouldn't like to confirm whether or
    > not $KIT works with $BUZZWORD unless I was absolutely sure from first hand
    > experience - just imagine how pissed off you'd be if you were told it would
    > work, and it doesn't.
    >
    > There's some commonly referenced statistic about an unhappy customer telling
    > 10 people, and a happy customer telling one, so to me, that explains your
    > experience with Draytek vendors.


    I wouldn't be annoyed at all as they would be obliged to refund the
    purchase.......I rather suspect that that was the reason.
    Jono, Feb 15, 2006
    #14
  15. Lee

    Guest

    I use a SPA 2000 connecting to Sipggate behind a belkin router at home
    on BY without problems (well that's not quite true: I have two
    different phones connected and I have problems if both are in use at
    the same time, but I think that's only to be expected). I also have a
    Vigor 2600v (with built in phone adapter) which I used at my office. I
    didn't find this very reliable and ended up using it connnected via the
    ethernet ports to a Snom 360. This was very reliable once I had
    forwarded all the right ports. The office connnection was with
    Gradwell who have one of the best support sites avaiilable - look at
    their "knowledgebase"
    http://esupport.gradwell.net/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=view&parentcategoryid=9&pcid=0&nav=0


    I suspect that it must be a port forwarding issue. The ports need to
    be open and forwarded to the SPA 2000. I am a bit vague on networking
    issues but always use fixed internal IP addresses to make things
    easier. I don't know if Voipfone use a Stun server for NAT traversal,
    but I have found this essential on any router. If they don't it may be
    worthwhile trying a vopi provider who does.

    I hope you manage to sort this. I doubt the problem is with BY.
    , Feb 15, 2006
    #15
  16. Lee

    Lee Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I use a SPA 2000 connecting to Sipggate behind a belkin router at home
    > on BY without problems (well that's not quite true: I have two
    > different phones connected and I have problems if both are in use at
    > the same time, but I think that's only to be expected). I also have a
    > Vigor 2600v (with built in phone adapter) which I used at my office. I
    > didn't find this very reliable and ended up using it connnected via the
    > ethernet ports to a Snom 360. This was very reliable once I had
    > forwarded all the right ports. The office connnection was with
    > Gradwell who have one of the best support sites avaiilable - look at
    > their "knowledgebase"
    > http://esupport.gradwell.net/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=view&parentcategoryid=9&pcid=0&nav=0
    >
    >
    > I suspect that it must be a port forwarding issue. The ports need to
    > be open and forwarded to the SPA 2000. I am a bit vague on networking
    > issues but always use fixed internal IP addresses to make things
    > easier. I don't know if Voipfone use a Stun server for NAT traversal,
    > but I have found this essential on any router. If they don't it may be
    > worthwhile trying a vopi provider who does.
    >
    > I hope you manage to sort this. I doubt the problem is with BY.
    >


    Thanks. I appreciate the help and will look at the Gradwell info.

    L
    Lee, Feb 15, 2006
    #16
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