Arpa address

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Pascal, May 17, 2006.

  1. Pascal

    Pascal Guest

    When trying to connect to the Dalnet on IRC I am kicked out with this
    message:

    "ARPA addresses were not intended to contain A records. As suck they are
    not allowed on dalnet"

    I am using a public wireless network that contains the word "arpa" on its
    IP whatever that means...

    Can anybody explain what they mean please? It works fine when I connect to
    Undernet of any other network
     
    Pascal, May 17, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Pascal wrote:

    > "ARPA addresses were not intended to contain A records. As suck they are
    > not allowed on dalnet"
    >
    > I am using a public wireless network that contains the word "arpa" on
    > its IP whatever that means...
    >
    > Can anybody explain what they mean please?


    Read RFC 3172! Any other RTFM questions?
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, May 17, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Pascal

    Moe Trin Guest

    On Wed, 17 May 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.computer.security, in article
    <-networks.com>, Pascal wrote:

    >When trying to connect to the Dalnet on IRC I am kicked out with this
    >message:
    >
    >"ARPA addresses were not intended to contain A records. As suck they are
    >not allowed on dalnet"
    >
    >I am using a public wireless network that contains the word "arpa" on its
    >IP whatever that means...


    Depends on where in the hostname the string "arpa" occurs. There is a top
    level domain "arpa" which originally meant "Advanced Projects Research
    Agency" - the organization that funded to development of what became the
    Internet. This domain is used when looking up an IP address to determine
    the host name. You would look for the name associated with 192.0.2.21 by
    sending a DNS query for "21.2.0.192.in-addr.arpa". The answer might come
    back as "21.2.0.192.in-addr.arpa is foo.example.com". The use of the
    "in-addr.arpa" domain is a trick to simplify DNS lookups (is 192.0.2.21
    a hostname, or an address?).

    An "A" record is a DNS term for a hostname-to-IP.address record. There are
    also "PTR" records (IP.address-to-hostname), NS (name server), MX (mail
    exchange), and others.

    What this sounds like is that the administrator of the IRC server has
    a mis-understanding, and is looking at the strings "arpa" anywhere in
    the hostname - meaning that it would see "cARPAl.tunnel.example.com as
    being an ARPA address. Looking at an English language dictionary, I
    find

    [compton ~]$ grep -i arpa /usr/local/share/dict/web2 | grep -vwc arpa
    59
    [compton ~]$

    59 words that _contain_ the string "arpa". In fact, the string "arpa" is,
    like the string "net", only restricted in the top level domain (which is
    good, or "dalnet.com" should be illegal as it _contains_ the string "net").
    You wonder what they would think of the old "netcom.net" and "netcom.com"
    domains now owned by Earthlink.net. In fairness to the DALnet people, the
    string "arpa" is not as common as (for example) "com" (1965 words in my
    dictionary), "net" (975 words) or "org" (363 words). We won't even _think_
    about the other 260+ top level domains from AC (Ascension Island) to ZW
    (Zimbabwe).

    Send mail to the IRC administrator, asking them (politely) to pull their
    head out of their ass and fix their b0rken script.

    Old guy
     
    Moe Trin, May 17, 2006
    #3
  4. (Moe Trin) writes:
    > Depends on where in the hostname the string "arpa" occurs. There is
    > a top level domain "arpa" which originally meant "Advanced Projects
    > Research Agency" - the organization that funded to development of
    > what became the Internet. This domain is used when looking up an IP
    > address to determine the host name. You would look for the name
    > associated with 192.0.2.21 by sending a DNS query for
    > "21.2.0.192.in-addr.arpa". The answer might come back as
    > "21.2.0.192.in-addr.arpa is foo.example.com". The use of the
    > "in-addr.arpa" domain is a trick to simplify DNS lookups (is
    > 192.0.2.21 a hostname, or an address?).


    slight nit ... arpa had funded arpanet and development of
    packet-switching protocol. this was relatively homogeneous environment
    requiring fairly expensive interface "IMPs" to be part of the network.

    the infrastructure cut-over to internetworking protocol was on 1/1/83
    .... with gateways, internetworking ... etc.

    I've frequently asserted that the internal network was larger than the
    whole arpanet/internet from just about the beginning until
    approx. summer 85 ... because the internal network had a kind of
    gatewaying capability from nearly the beginning (i.e. the 1/1/83
    cut-over to internetworking had approx. 250 nodes while the internal
    network was nearing 1000 nodes).
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetworking.html#internalnet

    NSF and other organizations were started to fund educational
    networking connectivity ... first csnet ... minor reference
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.html#0

    then NSF released the NSFNET backbone RFP ... which should be
    considered the "operational" precursor to the internet (as opposed to
    the technology/protocol). as i've mentioned before ... my wife
    and I had an operational high-speed backbone at the time
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt

    but we were told we weren't allowed to bid on the NSFNET backbone RFP
    .... although we eventually got a technical audit by NSF ... that said
    something about what we had operational was at least five years ahead
    of all the NSFNET bid submissions. minor ref:
    http://www.garlic.com/`lynn/internet.htm#nsfnet

    it was also starting in this time-frame that arpa and various other
    parts of the federal gov. were starting to mandate that
    internetworking protocol, internet, etc, was to be eliminated and
    every thing converted to ISO OSI protocol ... along with the various
    GOSIP documents ... recent reference about OSI mandate and GOSIP
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006i.html#19 blast from the past on reliable communication

    the NSFNET backbone had fair use guidelines about not being used for
    commercial purposes. the transition to today's internet somewhat
    involved providing provisions for commercial traffic (much of the
    backbone involved commercial companies loosely under NSFNET contract
    to provide networking for educational and non-commercial purposes).

    --
    Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
     
    Anne & Lynn Wheeler, May 17, 2006
    #4
  5. Moe Trin wrote:

    > What this sounds like is that the administrator of the IRC server has
    > a mis-understanding, and is looking at the strings "arpa" anywhere in
    > the hostname - meaning that it would see "cARPAl.tunnel.example.com as
    > being an ARPA address.


    I guess it's much more like the operator of his public WLAN is the real
    sucker, as he most likely assigned certain private or IANA-reserved
    address ranges and also put in something.arpa as the domain in DNS or
    alike. That's much more consistent with what Pascal wrote.
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, May 17, 2006
    #5
  6. Pascal

    Moe Trin Guest

    On Wed, 17 May 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.computer.security, in article
    <>, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

    >> There is a top level domain "arpa" which originally meant "Advanced
    >> Projects Research Agency" - the organization that funded to development
    >> of what became the Internet.


    >slight nit ... arpa had funded arpanet and development of
    >packet-switching protocol. this was relatively homogeneous environment
    >requiring fairly expensive interface "IMPs" to be part of the network.


    Minor simplification - I didn't think it important.

    >the infrastructure cut-over to internetworking protocol was on 1/1/83
    >... with gateways, internetworking ... etc.
    >
    >I've frequently asserted that the internal network was larger than the
    >whole arpanet/internet from just about the beginning until
    >approx. summer 85 ... because the internal network had a kind of
    >gatewaying capability from nearly the beginning (i.e. the 1/1/83
    >cut-over to internetworking had approx. 250 nodes while the internal
    >network was nearing 1000 nodes).


    "the internal network"... meaning?

    >http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetworking.html#internalnet


    404 compliant.

    0836 Who talks TCP?. D. Smallberg. January 1983. (Format: TXT=43643
    bytes) (Obsoletes RFC0835) (Obsoleted by RFC0837) (Status: UNKNOWN)

    [compton ~]$ sed -n '/alphabet/,/host table/p' rfc0836.txt | grep -c '^[a-z]'
    315
    [compton ~]$

    That's as of 5 January 1983. There were a series of such documents,
    culminating with RFC0846 that listed 325 hosts as of 22 February 1983.

    >then NSF released the NSFNET backbone RFP ... which should be
    >considered the "operational" precursor to the internet (as opposed to
    >the technology/protocol).


    It's a bit interesting looking at the older registration data. This is from
    the RIR zonefiles:

    [compton ~]$ grep ipv4 delegated-* | grep '|1983[01][0-9]' | awk ' BEGIN {
    FS="|" }; {print $4" "$6 }' | sort -n +1 | column
    192.5.9.0 19830119 192.5.34.0 19830703 128.38.0.0 19830825
    128.13.0.0 19830224 192.5.28.0 19830705 192.6.0.0 19830826
    128.17.0.0 19830224 192.5.29.0 19830705 192.5.43.0 19831010
    192.5.14.0 19830324 192.5.30.0 19830705 192.9.0.0 19831017
    192.5.13.0 19830404 128.35.0.0 19830706 192.9.10.0 19831017
    192.5.16.0 19830509 192.5.1.0 19830706 192.9.201.0 19831017
    128.30.0.0 19830527 192.5.20.0 19830706 128.29.0.0 19831024
    128.31.0.0 19830527 192.5.31.0 19830706 192.5.44.0 19831031
    128.33.0.0 19830628 192.5.38.0 19830722 192.10.0.0 19831116
    128.34.0.0 19830629 128.36.0.0 19830816 128.42.0.0 19831202
    192.5.32.0 19830703 128.37.0.0 19830818 192.5.47.0 19831202
    192.5.33.0 19830703 12.0.0.0 19830823 192.5.48.0 19831208
    [compton ~]$

    I imagine you recognize several of those by sight. These are only the
    "current" assignment/allocation dates - network 10 was ARPA, and is now
    RFC1918, network 3, 4, and 8 were BBN, now GE and Level3, and so on.

    Old guy
     
    Moe Trin, May 18, 2006
    #6
  7. (Moe Trin) writes:
    > "the internal network"... meaning?
    >
    > 404 compliant.
    >
    > 0836 Who talks TCP?. D. Smallberg. January 1983. (Format: TXT=43643
    > bytes) (Obsoletes RFC0835) (Obsoleted by RFC0837) (Status: UNKNOWN)


    finger slip
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

    the internal network passed 1000 nodes here 10jun83 (and was already
    rapidly approaching that on 1jan83)
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#22
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#112

    this has note regarding CSNET from 22oct82
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#0

    here is status note from CSNET dated 30dec82 getting
    prepared for switch-over
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#18

    short extract from note included above:

    The transition requires a major change in each of the more than 250
    hosts on the ARPANET; as might be expected, not all hosts will be
    ready on 1 January 1983. For CSNET, this means that disruption of
    mail communication will likely result between Phonenet users and some
    ARPANET users. Mail to/from some ARPANET hosts may be delayed; some
    host mail service may be unreliable; some hosts may be completely
    unreachable. Furthermore, for some ARPANET hosts this disruption may
    last a long time, until their TCP-IP implementations are up and
    working smoothly. While we cannot control the actions of ARPANET
    hosts, please let us know if we can assist with problems, particularly
    by clearing up any confusion. As always, we are <cic@csnet-sh>
    or (617)497-2777.

    .... snip ...

    slight reference from my rfc index
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm

    various archeological references, including pointers to 801, 832, 833,
    834, 835, 836, 836, 838, 339, 842, 843, 845, 846, 847, 848, 876
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietf.htm#history

    in the normal frame version of rfc index, the rfc summaries are
    brought up in the bottom frame. In the RFC summary field, clicking on
    the author name brings up all RFCs by that author. Clicking on the RFC
    number for the summary brings up all keywords assocated with that
    RFC. Clicking on the ".txt=nnn" field, retrieves the actual RFC.
    Clicking on other RFC numbers, will bring up the respective summary
    for that RFC.

    as an aside ... this information from my rfc index use to be
    included in section 6.10 in older STD1s
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietf.htm#obsol

    sample of rfc summaries from
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcidx2.htm

    846 -
    Who talks TCP? - survey of 22 February 1983, Smallberg D.,
    1983/02/23 (14pp) (.txt=45597) (Obsoleted by 847) (Obsoletes 845)
    845 -
    Who talks TCP? - survey of 15 February 1983, Smallberg D.,
    1983/02/17 (14pp) (.txt=45983) (Obsoleted by 846) (Obsoletes 843)
    844
    Who talks ICMP, too? - Survey of 18 February 1983, Clements R.,
    1983/02/18 (5pp) (.txt=9078) (Updates 843)
    843 -
    Who talks TCP? - survey of 8 February 83, Smallberg D., 1983/02/09
    (14pp) (.txt=46193) (Obsoleted by 845) (Updated by 844) (Obsoletes
    842)
    842 -
    Who talks TCP? - survey of 1 February 83, Smallberg D., 1983/02/03
    (14pp) (.txt=45962) (Obsoleted by 843) (Obsoletes 839)
    839 -
    Who talks TCP?, Smallberg D., 1983/01/26 (14pp) (.txt=45175)
    (Obsoleted by 842) (Obsoletes 838)
    838 -
    Who talks TCP?, Smallberg D., 1983/01/20 (14pp) (.txt=45033)
    (Obsoleted by 839) (Obsoletes 837)
    837 -
    Who talks TCP?, Smallberg D., 1983/01/12 (14pp) (.txt=44864)
    (Obsoleted by 838) (Obsoletes 836)
    836 -
    Who talks TCP?, Smallberg D., 1983/01/05 (13pp) (.txt=43643)
    (Obsoleted by 837) (Obsoletes 835)
    835 -
    Who talks TCP?, Smallberg D., 1982/12/29 (13pp) (.txt=42959)
    (Obsoleted by 836) (Obsoletes 834)
    834 -
    Who talks TCP?, Smallberg D., 1982/12/22 (13pp) (.txt=42764)
    (Obsoleted by 835) (Obsoletes 833)
    833 -
    Who talks TCP?, Smallberg D., 1982/12/14 (13pp) (.txt=42973)
    (Obsoleted by 834) (Obsoletes 832)
    832 -
    Who talks TCP?, Smallberg D., 1982/12/07 (13pp) (.txt=42751)
    (Obsoleted by 833)


    --
    Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
     
    Anne & Lynn Wheeler, May 18, 2006
    #7
  8. (Moe Trin) writes:
    > I imagine you recognize several of those by sight. These are only the
    > "current" assignment/allocation dates - network 10 was ARPA, and is now
    > RFC1918, network 3, 4, and 8 were BBN, now GE and Level3, and so on.


    re:
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#34 Arpa address
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#43 virtual memory
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#45 Arpa address
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#46 Arpa address
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#49 Arpa address


    trivia ... guess who asked for and obtained class-A subnet address
    9??

    hint, the location is referenced in the email dated 22oct82
    email included in this post
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.html#0

    --
    Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
     
    Anne & Lynn Wheeler, May 18, 2006
    #8
  9. Pascal

    Guest

    On Thu, 18 May 2006 14:54:09 -0600, Anne & Lynn Wheeler
    <> wrote:

    <snip>
    >
    >trivia ... guess who asked for and obtained class-A subnet address
    >9??

    I don't know, but the current holder is:

    OrgName: IBM Corporation
    OrgID: IBMCOR-8
    Address: 1311 Mamaroneck Ave.
    City: White Plains
    StateProv: NY
    PostalCode: 10605
    Country: US

    NetRange: 9.0.0.0 - 9.255.255.255
    CIDR: 9.0.0.0/8
    NetName: IBM
    NetHandle: NET-9-0-0-0-1
    Parent:
    NetType: Direct Assignment
    Comment:
    RegDate: 1988-12-16
    Updated: 2000-12-04

    RTechHandle: ZI22-ARIN
    RTechName: IBM Corporation
    RTechPhone: +1-999-999-9999
    RTechEmail:

    I wonder if the Tech phone number works. :)

    >
    >hint, the location is referenced in the email dated 22oct82
    >email included in this post
    >http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.html#0

    --
    ArarghMail605 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
    BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html

    To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address.
     
    , May 18, 2006
    #9
  10. writes:
    > RegDate: 1988-12-16


    old email that had been sent to 3-4 people

    Date: 16 December 1988, 16:40:09 PST
    From: xxx
    Subject: Class A Network number

    As a welcomed gift from the Internet, my request for a Class A
    network number for IBM has been approved. Initially we decided to go
    with multiple class B numbers because it would allow us to have
    multiple connections to the Internet. However, as time passed, and IP
    envy increased, I found it necessary to re-evaluate our requirements
    for a Class A number. My main concern was still the issue of
    connectivity to the rest of the Internet and the technical constraints
    that a Class A address would present. At Interop 88 I discussed my
    concerns with Jon Postel and Len Bosak. Len indicated that although a
    Class A number would still restrict us to 1 entry point for all of IBM
    from the Internet, it would not preclude multiple exit points for
    packets. At that point it seemed as if Class A would be ok and I
    approached Jon Postel and the network number guru at SRI to see if my
    request would be reconsidered. It turns out that the decision to deny
    us in the past was due to the numbers I projected for the number of
    hosts on our IBM Internet in 5 years. Based on that number, they
    couldn't justify giving us a full Class A. Can't blame them. So
    after Interop, I sent in a new request and increased our projected
    needs above a threshold which would warrant a Class A. Although I
    doubt we will ever use the full address space in 20 years let alone 5,
    I did what was necessary to get the number. However, the application
    went in quite some time ago and I still hadn't received a response.
    Yesterday I found out that it was because I had put down an incorrect
    U.S. Mail address for our sponsor!!! These people are tough. Anyway,
    after Postel informed me about my error, I corrected it and sent in
    the updated application again. The result was the issuance today of a
    Class A network number for IBM. Being an old Beatles fan, I asked for
    "Number 9". Cute huh? Whatever. Anyway, that's what we got.
    Consider it a Christmas present from the Internet.

    As many of you know, I will be leaving IBM at the end of this
    year. Obtaining this number was the last thing I wanted to do for IBM
    and the IBM Internet project. The hard part lies ahead. We still
    have 10 class B numbers. A lot of engineering of the network remains
    to be done. I will leave that up to you folks. xxxxx will be
    assuming responsibility for the project after I leave. I wish you all
    the best. It's been fun working with you on this!! My only regret is
    that I didn't have more time for it.

    .... snip ...

    for other drift, misc. past posts mentioning interop 88
    http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#interop88

    --
    Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
     
    Anne & Lynn Wheeler, May 18, 2006
    #10
  11. Pascal

    Moe Trin Guest

    On Thu, 18 May 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.computer.security, in article
    <>, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

    >Len indicated that although a Class A number would still restrict us to
    >1 entry point for all of IBM from the Internet, it would not preclude
    >multiple exit points for packets.


    Well, yeah - you have to look at what capabilities we had. RIP was only
    "standardized" in mid-1988, and the mind hadn't expanded to the concept
    of multiple entry points. There's no real reason why this won't work
    with period hardware/software.

    >It turns out that the decision to deny us in the past was due to the
    >numbers I projected for the number of hosts on our IBM Internet in 5
    >years. Based on that number, they couldn't justify giving us a full
    >Class A. Can't blame them. So after Interop, I sent in a new request
    >and increased our projected needs above a threshold which would warrant
    >a Class A. Although I doubt we will ever use the full address space in
    >20 years let alone 5, I did what was necessary to get the number.


    I suspect this is the case for a number of Class A assignments. If you
    ignore the allocations to providers, there are 23 such blocks (3, 9, 13,
    15-20, 25, 34, 40, 43-45, 47, 48, 51-54, 56, 57) according to the current
    RIR zonefiles. Perhaps a few shouldn't be included that way (example,
    43.0.0.0) and a few that are considered 'allocated' should be included
    (examples 6.0.0.0, 11.0.0.0, 55.0.0.0). Do each of those "end users"
    really need a /8? Even if you assume that they are internally subnetted
    to 24s, and that ten percent of the address space is needed as broadcast,
    and network addresses, routers between subnets, and supporting DNS, mail
    and what-ever servers, that's still 15 million addresses per.

    >The result was the issuance today of a Class A network number for IBM.
    >Being an old Beatles fan, I asked for "Number 9". Cute huh? Whatever.
    >Anyway, that's what we got. Consider it a Christmas present from the
    >Internet.


    Wes Irish told me that Xerox got '13' because it was the last one available.
    Given that their assignment dates from April 1986, I wonder. There must be
    a few interesting stories behind some of those numbers.

    Old guy
     
    Moe Trin, May 20, 2006
    #11
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Andrew Albert
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    4,044
    Rod Dorman
    Feb 8, 2005
  2. ProgDario
    Replies:
    17
    Views:
    3,700
    ProgDario
    May 6, 2005
  3. Julian Dragut

    PIX Firewall MAC address VPN IP address

    Julian Dragut, Feb 7, 2006, in forum: Cisco
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    864
    Walter Roberson
    Feb 7, 2006
  4. melic

    .arpa IP?

    melic, Aug 23, 2006, in forum: Computer Security
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,250
    melic
    Aug 23, 2006
  5. AntiSpamBloke

    e164.arpa or e164.org?

    AntiSpamBloke, Sep 17, 2007, in forum: UK VOIP
    Replies:
    10
    Views:
    1,007
    News Reader
    Sep 21, 2007
Loading...

Share This Page