Are Dvd-R more popular then the +? Why?

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by lbbs, Jan 5, 2004.

  1. lbbs

    lbbs Guest

    Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are the - more
    popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.
     
    lbbs, Jan 5, 2004
    #1
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  2. lbbs

    mrdancer Guest

    "lbbs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are the -

    more
    > popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.


    DVD -R has been around longer and is recognized by more DVD players. +R
    reportedly has a few advantages over -R (probably none of which the average
    consumer would ever realize), but unfortunately is supported by microsoft.
     
    mrdancer, Jan 5, 2004
    #2
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  3. lbbs

    Skid Guest

    "Derek Janssen" <> wrote in message
    news:3ff9b526$0$6744$...
    > lbbs wrote:
    >
    > > Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are the -

    more
    > > popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.

    >
    > Because the +R can only be recorded on tabletop/home-theater machines,
    > and -R is currently the popular PC/Mac recording format.


    Total hooey.

    They are competing formats used on all recordable drives. Both work fine in
    PC burners and standalone players that support them.

    -R came first. +R is currently capable of 8X burns, which -R hopes to catch
    up to in short order. +R will also likely be first to offer double-layer
    burns that can hold a full commercial DVD on a single disc, probably in the
    spring.

    Both camps claim to have the best compatibility. -R is probably a little
    ahead there, but the truth is that most burners and players released in the
    last year or so work with both. Some drives (like my dual-format LiteOn ldw
    411S,) also have the option to change the book type of +R media to DVD-ROM,
    so a laser-burned recorded disc identifies itself as a pressed commercial
    DVD, which allows almost any player to read it.

    +R media is a little harder to find and slightly more expensive in some
    areas, but that gap is narrowing. The cheapest -R discs are generally not
    worth having anyway because the quality is low and the percentage of
    coasters high. Buying good media in bulk makes either format more
    affordable.

    Microsoft, Apple and Dell all seem to be leaning toward +R at the moment,
    and the latest market data says 55 percent of all DVD recordable media sold
    in the U.S. currently is +R.

    See http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/personaltech/0,39001147,39163045,00.htm

    and http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvd for a lot more detail.

    The latter site has compatibility lists showing what players work with which
    format. If you want to hedge your bets, a dual-format burner costs only a
    few dollars more than a single-format burner and will spit out whatever you
    put in.
     
    Skid, Jan 5, 2004
    #3
  4. lbbs

    Rich Clark Guest

    "Derek Janssen" <> wrote in message
    news:3ff9b526$0$6744$...
    > lbbs wrote:
    >
    > > Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are the -

    more
    > > popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.


    DVD-R was introduced first, and was first to gain widespread acceptance on
    computers. Pioneer is the big proponent of DVD-R and makes more drives than
    anyone; Apple has never supported anything else, although that's about to
    change. DVD-R is the format endorsed by the DVD Forum.

    While DVD-R blanks are more common and slightly cheaper, this seems to be
    changing. DVD+R's market share appears to be slowly increasing, and more
    companies that originally supported only "dash" are now adding support for
    "plus." Even Pioneer.
    >
    > Because the +R can only be recorded on tabletop/home-theater machines,
    > and -R is currently the popular PC/Mac recording format.


    That's far from true. There are many DVD+R burners on the market, and many
    dual-format burners as well. Sony and HP were part of the consortium that
    developed the format.
    >
    > (...Now, what, historically, IS the traditional outcome of
    > "PC-compatible vs. separate dedicated-hardware machine" format wars?) ;)


    What format war are you talking about?

    RichC
     
    Rich Clark, Jan 5, 2004
    #4
  5. lbbs

    Pompey© Guest

    You just answered your own questions...most NEW players support both but the
    older players are more for the minus format..that's why they are more
    popular..people sticking with what they know, but the plus format is on the
    up!!

    Daryn

    "lbbs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are the -

    more
    > popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.
    >
    >
     
    Pompey©, Jan 5, 2004
    #5
  6. lbbs

    Rich Clark Guest

    "Derek Janssen" <> wrote in message
    news:3ff9caa5$0$6764$...
    > Rich Clark wrote:
    > >
    > >>(...Now, what, historically, IS the traditional outcome of
    > >>"PC-compatible vs. separate dedicated-hardware machine" format wars?)

    ;)
    > >
    > > What format war are you talking about?

    >
    > Well, DIVx didn't just fail because we *didn't like* it--
    >
    > When you have computer stores selling DVD's for the desktop, it gives
    > you one LESS reason to buy that big expensive one-purpose black box from
    > the other guys at Circuit City...


    I'd dispute your characterization of DIVX as a "PC-compatible vs. separate
    dedicated-hardware machine" format war. The fact that DIVX discs couldn't be
    played on computers had almost nothing to do with its failure, since PC
    playback of DVDs was hardly a ripple in the DVD market back in 1999.

    DIVX was aimed at the general home video market, and it failed because it
    was stupid, and even Joe SixPack wasn't fooled.

    RichC
     
    Rich Clark, Jan 5, 2004
    #6
  7. lbbs wrote:

    > Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are the - more
    > popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.


    Because the +R can only be recorded on tabletop/home-theater machines,
    and -R is currently the popular PC/Mac recording format.

    (...Now, what, historically, IS the traditional outcome of
    "PC-compatible vs. separate dedicated-hardware machine" format wars?) ;)

    Derek Janssen (those who don't remember the past...)
     
    Derek Janssen, Jan 5, 2004
    #7
  8. lbbs

    Senti Guest

    mrdancer did mumble YLiKb.6619$...

    > "lbbs" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are
    >> the - more popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and
    >> the -.

    >
    > DVD -R has been around longer and is recognized by more DVD players.
    > +R reportedly has a few advantages over -R (probably none of which
    > the average consumer would ever realize), but unfortunately is
    > supported by microsoft.


    From the little I recall reading about the differences, the +R is better at
    storing data (rather than movies) than the -R. Which would make it better
    for use with PCs...
    --
    ~SF~
    "I'm a paranoid agnostic. I doubt the existence of God, but I'm sure
    there is some force, somewhere, working against me." -Marc Maron
     
    Senti, Jan 5, 2004
    #8
  9. Skid wrote:

    > +R media is a little harder to find and slightly more expensive in some
    > areas, but that gap is narrowing. The cheapest -R discs are generally not
    > worth having anyway because the quality is low and the percentage of
    > coasters high. Buying good media in bulk makes either format more
    > affordable.


    Yeah, reminds me; off the subject but I was going to ask:
    Just which *are* the techie-recommended -R brands (assuming I'm doing my
    burning on iMac drive)?:

    I'm not impressed by Memorex (bad coaster experience), but I've been to
    five places looking for Sony disks, and not sure if they're still
    available--
    Any other backup favorites just in case?

    Derek Janssen
     
    Derek Janssen, Jan 5, 2004
    #9
  10. lbbs

    CFster Guest

    "mrdancer" <> wrote in message
    news:YLiKb.6619$...
    >
    > "lbbs" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are the -

    > more
    > > popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.

    >
    > DVD -R has been around longer and is recognized by more DVD players. +R
    > reportedly has a few advantages over -R (probably none of which the

    average
    > consumer would ever realize), but unfortunately is supported by microsoft.
    >
    >


    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=0&sid=3&aid=12

    CFster
     
    CFster, Jan 5, 2004
    #10
  11. Rich Clark wrote:
    >
    >>(...Now, what, historically, IS the traditional outcome of
    >>"PC-compatible vs. separate dedicated-hardware machine" format wars?) ;)

    >
    > What format war are you talking about?


    Well, DIVx didn't just fail because we *didn't like* it--

    When you have computer stores selling DVD's for the desktop, it gives
    you one LESS reason to buy that big expensive one-purpose black box from
    the other guys at Circuit City...

    Derek Janssen
     
    Derek Janssen, Jan 5, 2004
    #11
  12. lbbs

    ZC TGS Guest

    On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:03:42 -0800, Derek Janssen <>
    wrote:


    >I'm not impressed by Memorex (bad coaster experience), but I've been to
    >five places looking for Sony disks, and not sure if they're still
    >available--
    >Any other backup favorites just in case?



    I've always tried to stick with TDK wherever possible, right from
    Floppy disks through to CDs, and now DVDR. I've found that TDK is the
    most reliable brand.

    I wouldn't go near Memorex either!
     
    ZC TGS, Jan 6, 2004
    #12
  13. lbbs

    Skid Guest

    "Derek Janssen" <> wrote in message
    news:3ff9c1af$0$6764$...
    > Skid wrote:
    >
    > > +R media is a little harder to find and slightly more expensive in some
    > > areas, but that gap is narrowing. The cheapest -R discs are generally

    not
    > > worth having anyway because the quality is low and the percentage of
    > > coasters high. Buying good media in bulk makes either format more
    > > affordable.

    >
    > Yeah, reminds me; off the subject but I was going to ask:
    > Just which *are* the techie-recommended -R brands (assuming I'm doing my
    > burning on iMac drive)?:


    One thing to kep in mind is that there are only a handful of plants actually
    making the discs, even though they are sold under a multitude of brand
    names. And some brands, Memorex is one, change manufacturers, disc types and
    dyes more often than you change your underwear. That means the spindle you
    buy today may not be the same as the one you buy with exactly the same label
    tomorrow. An app like DVDInfoPro can identify what it actually is you
    bought.

    But to answer your question, Ritek is one of the most consistent and
    respected media manufacturers, sold under some top name brands like
    Verbatim. But you can buy generic Ritek under it's own name cheaper in both
    formats and all speed ratings. Here, for instance:

    http://www.meritline.com/ritek-dvd-blank-media.html

    For comparison, the excellent Verbatim DataLife -R (2X) discs I bought at
    Sam's for $1.20 each in a spindle of 50 are actually Ritek G03, $ .91 each
    with free shipping.
     
    Skid, Jan 6, 2004
    #13
  14. lbbs

    Eric R. Guest

    ZC TGS <> wrote in message

    > I wouldn't go near Memorex either!


    I've always had great experience with Memorex DVD-R's. The only
    coasters I've ever burned were with Verbatim (last batch I bought had
    trouble with DVD's of over 3.8 GB) and cheapo brands.

    -Eric
     
    Eric R., Jan 6, 2004
    #14
  15. lbbs

    mrdancer Guest

    "CFster" <> wrote in message
    news:rgmKb.35005$F22.10207@lakeread02...
    >
    > "mrdancer" <> wrote in message
    > news:YLiKb.6619$...
    > >
    > > "lbbs" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are

    the -
    > > more
    > > > popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.

    > >
    > > DVD -R has been around longer and is recognized by more DVD players.

    +R
    > > reportedly has a few advantages over -R (probably none of which the

    > average
    > > consumer would ever realize), but unfortunately is supported by

    microsoft.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=0&sid=3&aid=12


    My sentiments exactly.
     
    mrdancer, Jan 6, 2004
    #15
  16. lbbs

    normanstrong Guest

    "CFster" <> wrote in message
    news:rgmKb.35005$F22.10207@lakeread02...
    >
    > "mrdancer" <> wrote in message
    > news:YLiKb.6619$...
    > >
    > > "lbbs" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why

    are the -
    > > more
    > > > popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.

    > >
    > > DVD -R has been around longer and is recognized by more DVD

    players. +R
    > > reportedly has a few advantages over -R (probably none of which

    the
    > average
    > > consumer would ever realize), but unfortunately is supported by

    microsoft.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=0&sid=3&aid=12


    I find this interesting. Of course it was put out by the DVD+R
    organization, so I emphasizes the advantages of +R over -R. What I
    would like to see is a similar article put out by the DVD-R
    organization, wherein it does the same for -R. Anyone know of one?

    Norm Strong
     
    normanstrong, Jan 6, 2004
    #16
  17. > > http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=0&sid=3&aid=12


    "normanstrong" wrote ...
    > I find this interesting. Of course it was put out by the DVD+R
    > organization, so I emphasizes the advantages of +R over -R. What I
    > would like to see is a similar article put out by the DVD-R
    > organization, wherein it does the same for -R. Anyone know of one?


    www.dvdminusrw.org is available! :)
     
    Richard Crowley, Jan 6, 2004
    #17
  18. lbbs

    Skid Guest

    "normanstrong" <> wrote in message
    news:bDCKb.76402$xX.542959@attbi_s02...

    > > http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=0&sid=3&aid=12

    >
    > I find this interesting. Of course it was put out by the DVD+R
    > organization, so I emphasizes the advantages of +R over -R. What I
    > would like to see is a similar article put out by the DVD-R
    > organization, wherein it does the same for -R. Anyone know of one?
    >
    > Norm Strong


    Not exactly, but here are some semi-independent assessments that conclude +R
    seems to have the brightest future:
    http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/122
    http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/113
    http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/personaltech/0,39001147,39163045,00.htm

    And here's one that concludes -R is the most compatible.
    http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Art...Headline=DVD Media Format Compatibility Tests

    All opinions are suspect. Both formats work. More people use -R because it's
    been around longer. +R has technical advantages and is gaining ground in the
    marketplace.
     
    Skid, Jan 6, 2004
    #18
  19. lbbs

    Matt Guest

    On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:17:50 -0500, CFster wrote:


    > "mrdancer" <> wrote in message
    > news:YLiKb.6619$...
    >>
    >> "lbbs" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > Some stores I called apparently don't carry the dvd+R. Why are the
    >> > -

    >> more
    >> > popular? Most new dvd players will play both the + and the -.

    >>
    >> DVD -R has been around longer and is recognized by more DVD players.
    >> +R reportedly has a few advantages over -R (probably none of which the

    > average
    >> consumer would ever realize), but unfortunately is supported by
    >> microsoft.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    > http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=0&sid=3&aid=12
    >
    > CFster


    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=0&sid=3&aid=11 says this: When
    the DVD+RW Alliance set up the standards for the DVD+RW and DVD+R formats,
    they included compatibility with existing DVD-Video players and DVD-ROM
    drives as a key requirement into the specification. DVD+R/+RW is the only
    format that was build from scratch to be compatible with DVD and to act as
    a logical -compatible- addition to the popular DVD system.
    </end quote>

    So why is it that (the people on this forum at least) say the -R is better
    supported?

    Is it really a case of
    (a) A lot of people here are the first to get new technology
    (b) so they got -R
    (c) so they're protecting they're own interests (continued cheap -R
    media).

    Just wondering...

    And if anyone wants to argue I'd like reasons *other than cost* (because
    we're spending £££££ on a recorder, so what difference does £ make in a
    year when prices are falling anyway if the result is better?) why I should
    consider one format over the other :)

    --
    Matt


    -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
     
    Matt, Jan 6, 2004
    #19
  20. lbbs

    Rich Clark Guest

    "Matt" <> wrote in message
    news:p...

    > So why is it that (the people on this forum at least) say the -R is better
    > supported?


    I think all anyone's saying is that the installed base for "dash" is larger,
    worldwide.
    >
    > Is it really a case of
    > (a) A lot of people here are the first to get new technology
    > (b) so they got -R
    > (c) so they're protecting they're own interests (continued cheap -R
    > media).


    There's no conspiracy. "Dash" discs are cheaper because of sales volume.

    > And if anyone wants to argue I'd like reasons *other than cost* (because
    > we're spending £££££ on a recorder, so what difference does £ make in a
    > year when prices are falling anyway if the result is better?) why I should
    > consider one format over the other :)


    I don't think you should. There's no reason not to buy a dual-format burner,
    if the idea of having to choose bothers you.

    RichC
     
    Rich Clark, Jan 6, 2004
    #20
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