Apple's foray into the "service/rental economy"

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Eric Stevens
    <> wrote:

    > >> >> >> I accept there are occasions when remote access to computers is used
    > >> >> >> for trouble-shooting but the vast majority of instances of remote
    > >> >> >> accessing are for the purpose of file access in one form or another.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >except this isn't about accessing your computer *at all*.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >the documents are in the cloud so that multiple devices can access
    > >> >> >them, whether it's a computer at home or one in your pocket while
    > >> >> >thousands of miles from home.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >the computer at home can be off for all that matters.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> So?
    > >> >
    > >> >it means that remote access is something else.
    > >>
    > >> Something else than what?

    > >
    > >something else than cloud storage.

    >
    > So Cloud storage is not remote from your computer.


    of course it's remote. that's why it's called cloud.
     
    nospam, Jun 5, 2014
    #41
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  2. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Eric Stevens
    <> wrote:

    > >>>>>>>> It was PeterN who picked up that ball and turned it into "remote
    > >>>>>>>> access". As a Mac user I have always thought of "remote access" as a
    > >>>>>>>> way of remotely accessing my Mac (or any other Mac) to control it
    > >>>>>>>> and/or access files and software available on that computer from a
    > >>>>>>>> different computer. In that sense iCloud and none of the cloud
    > >>>>>>>> storage
    > >>>>>>>> services provide "remote access" to control the parent computer.
    > >>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>> it's not just macs. remote access means remotely accessing a computer,
    > >>>>>>> whether it's mac, windows, linux or whatever else. it's definitely
    > >>>>>>> useful for a lot of things.
    > >>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>> putting stuff in the cloud is not remote access.
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>> I understand it's intended to provide remote access to files.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> you understand wrong.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> it's a central repository for documents (not files although it can be)
    > >>>>> which are kept in sync across multiple devices.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> ... none of which devices are where the files (aka documents) are
    > >>>> stored and indeed none of which devices need be in the same place as
    > >>>> any other. It sounds remarkably like remote access to me.
    > >>>
    > >>> the term remote access means something specific which isn't cloud
    > >>> document storage despite that it is technically remotely accessed.
    > >>
    > >> What are you going to call the process where the computer has to
    > >> access files (not just documents) on external storage of some kind?

    > >
    > >There are several issues here.
    > >
    > >How is this external storage managed?
    > >By the parent computer, or server, or a cloud service of some type?
    > >Each are different. The first two are usually accessed by being
    > >connected to specific network. Typically, an individual using a laptop
    > >or tablet would sign in/log into, his/her home/corporate network
    > >usually driven by a server and be permitted access to work files and
    > >internal corporate data he/she is cleared for.

    >
    > This is usually known as a virtual private network i.e. a VPN.
    > Nevertheless it gives remote access to his/her home/corporate network.


    usually but not always. it's possible to connect directly to another
    machine and control it without joining the entire network.

    > >Cloud storage uses a third party server which does not required
    > >connection or communication with a home/office computer/server. So the
    > >traveller can access any files stored in that third party cloud storage.

    >
    > This is a relatively new concept which, again, gives remote access to
    > files.


    it's not a relatively new concept at all. it's been done for several
    decades.

    > >...and you as a Dropbox user know very well that documents are files,
    > >just as image files are files.

    >
    > Have you noticed the way nospam has stopped talking about files and
    > confines himself to documents? Yet there have for many years been
    > programs (not just documents) which have been variously remotely
    > accessed, downloaded and run e.g. Java and php.


    documents can be more than one file, thus the distinction.

    that's important as we move beyond the limitations of the file system.

    and downloading an app is even more of a stretch, whether it's java or
    a full fledged native app.

    > >At no time in the process of accessing files stored in the cloud are
    > >you, or anybody remotely accessing a computer desktop to control and
    > >manipulate it.

    >
    > Yet that is something which is referred to as 'remote access' and in
    > this case it is remote access to a computer.


    remote access means controlling the other computer, not syncing
    documents.

    > >When I said access a file from a remote location, I meant exactly that.
    > >I am at a location remote from where that particular file is stored in
    > >the cloud, and I can access that file from that remote location. All
    > >without gaining remote access to my home computer.

    >
    > I knew exactly what you meant. It's nospam who doesn't want to use the
    > term 'remote access' in any other context than remote access to the
    > controls of a computer.


    because that's what it *means*.

    you're the one twisting it into other meanings.

    > >More recently, I have been using my 20GB of cloud storage on Adobe's
    > >Creative Cloud. I can load project files, be they NEF, DNG, PSD, TIFF,
    > >or JPEG, and I can access them anywhere. That includes being able to
    > >open Photoshop Touch on my iPad, make some prospective edits using PS
    > >Touch while I am nowhere near my desktop Mac, and then save them to my
    > >CC folder. When I get back to my desktop that file can be opened in PS
    > >CC complete with any layers used in PS Touch.
    > >At no time was I remotely controlling either my desktop or my iPad.

    >
    > Exactly. But you still had remote access.


    no.
     
    nospam, Jun 5, 2014
    #42
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  3. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > > More recently, I have been using my 20GB of cloud storage on Adobe's
    > > Creative Cloud. I can load project files, be they NEF, DNG, PSD, TIFF,
    > > or JPEG, and I can access them anywhere. That includes being able to
    > > open Photoshop Touch on my iPad, make some prospective edits using PS
    > > Touch while I am nowhere near my desktop Mac, and then save them to my
    > > CC folder. When I get back to my desktop that file can be opened in PS
    > > CC complete with any layers used in PS Touch.
    > > At no time was I remotely controlling either my desktop or my iPad.

    >
    > But you are using remote access to the files. Someone hee is creating a
    > distinction without a difference.


    he is *not* using remote access to see the files.
     
    nospam, Jun 5, 2014
    #43
  4. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>,
    Whisky-dave <> wrote:

    > > So cloud storage doesn't give remote access under any system?

    >
    > The probem here is understanding what remote access actually means.
    > It doesn;t have to be remote either I use remote access virtualy every day.
    > I use sreen sharing from my imac to my macmini but it's only ~5ft away from
    > my finger tips because I can;t be bothered getting up going to my webcam
    > computer, switch the screen on, attaching the keyboard, so I remotely log on
    > from 5ft away
    > THAT IS REMOTE ACCESS, which is not passive but you actively change whats
    > going on on that computer. I can launch games, apps, utilties. I can open up
    > documents on the 'remote' macmini even if I don't have the neccessary appl.
    > on my local computer, this can not be done with a cloud service. (as far as I
    > know)
    > if I copy a document from a cloud service (the cloud service is passive) then
    > although I'm remotety accessing a disc it IS NOT REMOTE ACCESS, that the two
    > words 'REMOTE ACCESS' have come to mean.


    correct.

    > > I wonder then how users get hold of (aka access) these remotely stored
    > > files?
    > >
    > > Of course it's remote access!

    >
    > But not in the sense of the words remote access.
    >
    > Would you say that switching channels on a TV is remote access ?
    > Some might see it as such but what of phone-in programs where you vote for
    > someone is that also remote access.


    by eric's definition, that too would be remote access, particularly
    since tvs these days are computers, complete with usb ports, the
    ability to watch youtube videos and even get firmware updates.

    this was the remote control for google tv:
    <http://cmffmc.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sony_google_tv_remote.jpg>
     
    nospam, Jun 5, 2014
    #44
  5. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > >>> It was PeterN who picked up that ball and turned it into "remote
    > >>> access". As a Mac user I have always thought of "remote access" as a way
    > >>> of remotely accessing my Mac (or any other Mac) to control it and/or
    > >>> access files and software available on that computer from a different
    > >>> computer. In that sense iCloud and none of the cloud storage services
    > >>> provide "remote access" to control the parent computer.
    > >>
    > >> In the context of setting up a server for file sharing from remote
    > >> locations, as an alternative to using the cloud for that purpose.

    > >
    > > someone might be able to set up the hardware to be a server, but that
    > > would be it.
    > >
    > > they won't get document syncing working (even major companies with lots
    > > of money don't get it right all the time) and apps would never know
    > > about it anyway.
    > >
    > > it would be nothing more than a remote disk drive which is very
    > > different than what the cloud offers.

    >
    > So you are saying that before the cloud, there was no document synching?


    very little.

    it might have been done locally but that's nowhere near as useful as
    cloud sync.
     
    nospam, Jun 5, 2014
    #45
  6. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > Why does this remind me of the old dumb terminals. They were lightweight
    > too.


    not physically they weren't but yes, what's old is new again.
     
    nospam, Jun 5, 2014
    #46
  7. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > >>> The above means you can have a fairly lightweight (in all senses
    > >>> computer) and as long as you have a decent internet speed you can do
    > >>> those things from wherever you are. No need to sync with another
    > >>> computer as long as the apps and the data are in the "cloud".
    > >>>
    > >>> One can drag a file from ones Dropbox folder (wherever you are) into the
    > >>> Apple cloud app as well (as long as the browser is Safari anyway.
    > >>
    > >> Interesting.
    > >>
    > >> It sounds as though Apple is trying to find a way around (at least
    > >> some of) Microsoft's grip on enterprise computing.

    > >
    > > everyone is. google already has.
    > >
    > >> But I don't know that that was what nospam was referring to, although
    > >> no doubt he will claim that that was what he always had in mind at the
    > >> time.

    > >
    > > it was, even if you're skeptical.

    >
    > Then why didn't you clerly say that: UP FRONT.


    i did.
     
    nospam, Jun 5, 2014
    #47
  8. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > > the term remote access means something specific which isn't cloud
    > > document storage despite that it is technically remotely accessed.

    >
    > Oh! The term is technically correct, even though it has a different
    > meaning to some. And you are the one who regularly accuses others of
    > playing with words.


    yep.

    remote access has a well understood meaning, which is *not* what eric
    is trying to invent by nitpicking each word.

    he's playing word games.
     
    nospam, Jun 5, 2014
    #48
  9. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > >>> as you say, it's not the same as cloud storage for documents and
    > >>> syncing among devices.
    > >>
    > >> It's not the same as cloud storage for documents, data and software
    > >> etc., because the cloud storage relies on an external computer for
    > >> functionality.

    > >
    > > you're just playing word games. again, 'remote access' has a specific
    > > meaning.
    > >
    > > any time you search on google, you're remotely accessing another
    > > computer. do you call that remote access too?

    >
    > Yes.


    except that's not what the phrase 'remote access' means.

    > > any time you use email, you're remotely accessing another computer too.
    > > do you call that remote access? and not only that, but you're using
    > > cloud based storage for the mail.
    > >

    > Word games.


    that's my point.
     
    nospam, Jun 5, 2014
    #49
  10. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:34:46 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:

    >
    > So you wouldn't acknowledge that the files are remote from the
    > computer?


    Define remote first.

    I remote controll my TV but I don;t consider my TV to be remote from where I'm sitting. If I gomon holiday and say I'm going to a remote location I do not mean I'm holidaying the other side of my living room by the TV.

    I also have a remote door bell, but if I give you the remote contol it's unlikely you'll be able to remotely contol my bell andunless your in London, in my road and standing with about 100ft or less of the reciever.
    NASA use remote control and remote access to the Mars rovers.

    If teh term downloading is WRONG, you don;t download anything you're HS or SSD doesn't gain wight or material or size all that happens is the data is changed,
    no downloading occurs what's happing is duplication of data values.
    So in relaity you can;t even download a file unless you correct the terms down and load.
    When and why do we use the terms uploading and downloading are we so sure that our computers are higher or lower than the servers we are accessing.
    How about when we use a CD DVD, USB stick, or HD.
    Some peole copy files others duplicate them, while others back them up and others archive them.



    > >what do you call the process when you mount a shared hard drive on your
    > >desktop and access a file? is that remote access too?

    >
    >
    >
    > It is if the hard drive is remote from the computer.


    When is a HD remote ?, when it's 6 inches away, 6 feet, in the next room, in the loft or when in another country or city.


    > >you might not even know a shared hard drive was accessed by the

    >
    > >computer. then what?

    >
    >
    >
    > Whether or not you know doesn't affect whether or not it's remote.


    It does if you're theone aplying the name to it.

    But then again many don't know the difernce between theft and piracy.
    also between sharing, lending, stealing and giving.

    Sometimes it's, a cultural thing too.
     
    Whisky-dave, Jun 6, 2014
    #50
  11. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Thursday, 5 June 2014 22:25:46 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 03:37:58 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    >
    > <> wrote:





    > >The probem here is understanding what remote access actually means.

    >
    > >It doesn;t have to be remote either I use remote access virtualy every day.

    >
    > >I use sreen sharing from my imac to my macmini but it's only ~5ft away from my finger tips because I can;t be bothered getting up going to my webcam computer, switch the screen on, attaching the keyboard, so I remotely logon from 5ft away

    >
    > >THAT IS REMOTE ACCESS, which is not passive but you actively change whats going on on that computer. I can launch games, apps, utilties. I can openup documents on the 'remote' macmini even if I don't have the neccessary appl. on my local computer, this can not be done with a cloud service. (as far as I know)

    >
    > >if I copy a document from a cloud service (the cloud service is passive)then although I'm remotety accessing a disc it IS NOT REMOTE ACCESS, that the two words 'REMOTE ACCESS' have come to mean.



    > That's the crux of the point, isn't it. The term 'remote access'
    > didn't always mean 'remote access to another computer for control
    > purposes' but until relatively recently that's all it meant.


    That's always been what I've understood by remoted access.
    if we're not talking about computers then remote access can mean something else.

    I'm viewing my camera remotely but is that really remote access.
    If I phone a friend half way across the world and I tell him to switch thecomputer on I'm not really remotely accessing the computer or am I ;-)


    > Few people had so many computers that their 'remote' computer was only
    > 5' away and 'remote' meant remote as defined in the dictionary.


    Remore doesn't have a set distant otherwise TV remotes wouldn;t work they are line of sight devices.
    The word remote was used 100s of years before computers.
    America was a remote place (from the UK), whethe ror not it's remote now isup to the person decribing it.




    > A
    > computer surrounded by peripheral devices which were external to the
    > computer's casing but connected to it by cables was not considered to
    > be gaining remote access to those devices: they were considered to be
    > part of the computer.


    No, not part of the computer at all. An external drive is NOT part of the computer any more than an external monitor or printer are.
    The word peripheral gives that away.


    >Remote access to another computer meant
    >
    > connecting to an entirely different computer located somewhere else.


    Yes a computer not a drive, this is the deffernce between passive and active devices. You can't control a hard drive remotley using remote access of any kind, or I've yet to see the option to turn off and turmn on a disc drive remotely, buy using the disc drive itself.
    A friend has remote access to 10 macminis in thialand, he can shut them down and restart them from the UK, you can't do that with the cloud or with a normal hard drive or printer.

    >
    > Both machines were probably running some variation of Unix (or maybe
    > MUMPS) and once you had connected and logged in to the external
    > machine you were as powerful as the privileges allocated to you
    > allowed. That's what 'remote access' meant in those days.


    Yes I did that playing reversi on the college mainframe using a Hazeltine 1510 conenct to a PAD line at 1200 baud.


    > Things have advanced. We have gone to high-speed communication between
    > computers and high-speed communication between computers and devices.


    The speed isn't relivent.

    >
    > Networking of devices means that you are no longer limited to 20m


    you were never were that limited it was at least 50 metres.
    After that you used repeaters. In fact USB is far more limited as far as distance is concerned.



    (the
    > maximum practical length of an RS232 cable at full speed) to connect
    > computers to peripherals. High speed Internet means peripherals and
    >
    > accessible computers can be as far from your own computer as you wish.


    No, it's about 100 metres for UTP leads cat 5.


    > In ordinary English usage,


    Remore access isn;t part of normal english usage.


    > as expressed by Savageduck when he
    > inadvertantly started all this by writing "I can have all by (sic)
    > work on a 3TB drive at home, but it does nothing to give me access to
    > a file, be it a PDF draft, or a graphics file in progress at a remote
    > location", stored data, the user's computer, and related computing
    > devices can all be remote from each other. Yet Savageduck
    > understandably wants 'remote access' to these various devices as he
    > sees fit. This includes storage.


    depends on who was using the words remote access and what they were discribing.


    > It's ridiculous if in this very much changed day and age one cannot
    > talk about a computer having 'remote access' to whatever it is the
    > user wants it to have access to.


    It's a ridiculous day and age.


    > >> Of course it's remote access!

    >
    > >But not in the sense of the words remote access.

    >
    >
    >
    > Not in the sense that 'remote access' came to be used some thirty
    > years ago.


    30 years ago most people that had a file they held a bit of metal with ridges with a handle on it. When a studetn comes to me and asks me for a file Ihave to work out what they mean.


    > >Would you say that switching channels on a TV is remote access ?


    > That's one of these peripheral devices I refered to above.


    But do you have remote access to your TV ?
    can you only operate it from within the same room or very close by ?
    If it'sd a remote control them surely you can control your TV from miles away, or doesn;t you'r euse of the word remote extend beyond 20 metres ?

    If you can;t work out what the word remote means adding access to it and mtrying to make a sentace from it which means the same to everuyone just won;t work.


    > >Some might see it as such but what of phone-in programs where you vote for someone is that also remote access.


    >
    > Of course it is. What is it if it isn't remote access?


    your phoning someone in a call centre that in turn tells someone to increment a number which is used as a total for each person. You have NO connection with that person and NO control over them You are NOT remotely controlling the person or remotely accessing that person.
     
    Whisky-dave, Jun 6, 2014
    #51
  12. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/5/2014 5:37 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
    > On 2014.06.05, 08:49 , PeterN wrote:
    >> On 6/4/2014 9:52 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>> On 2014.06.04, 17:27 , Eric Stevens wrote:
    >>>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 14:21:55 -0400, nospam <>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> In article <>, Eric Stevens
    >>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I accept there are occasions when remote access to computers is
    >>>>>>>> used
    >>>>>>>> for trouble-shooting but the vast majority of instances of remote
    >>>>>>>> accessing are for the purpose of file access in one form or
    >>>>>>>> another.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> except this isn't about accessing your computer *at all*.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> the documents are in the cloud so that multiple devices can access
    >>>>>>> them, whether it's a computer at home or one in your pocket while
    >>>>>>> thousands of miles from home.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> the computer at home can be off for all that matters.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> So?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> it means that remote access is something else.
    >>>>
    >>>> Something else than what?
    >>>
    >>> Another aspect is that more and more apps are web based.
    >>>
    >>> This includes Google's various apps (word processor, spreadsheet,
    >>> presentations, photo editor, drawing, gantt charts ... etc.). So having
    >>> files sync'd + apps over the web, mean no need to "access" any remote
    >>> computer. From any computer that accesses the web, you can access your
    >>> "cloud" based docs and use "web based" apps to work on them with
    >>> whatever device is handy that can operate the web based app. (eg:
    >>> Compliant browser is enough).
    >>>
    >>> (This includes their Chrome OS where all apps are web based
    >>> (ChromeBook)).
    >>>
    >>> Apple have their Pages, Numbers and Keynote apps on their cloud service
    >>> and of course you can keep docs there as well (this has been available
    >>> in the current form for a while). I'm not a fan of the Apple office
    >>> Apps but ... with a new Mac coming in a week or so, I won't have to
    >>> order the most recent bloatware (Office for Mac) from MS. I'll use
    >>> pages/numbers/keynote on it (free on new Apple computers/ipads/iphones)
    >>> and see how far I can stretch the glide.
    >>>
    >>> The above means you can have a fairly lightweight (in all senses
    >>> computer) and as long as you have a decent internet speed you can do
    >>> those things from wherever you are. No need to sync with another
    >>> computer as long as the apps and the data are in the "cloud".
    >>>
    >>> One can drag a file from ones Dropbox folder (wherever you are) into the
    >>> Apple cloud app as well (as long as the browser is Safari anyway.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Why does this remind me of the old dumb terminals. They were lightweight
    >> too.

    >
    > Only grossly. Terminals were pretty hardwired to one computer (or via a
    > dial-up or LAN to several - one at a time).
    >
    > The more appropriate comparison would be today's "thin client" which is
    > a really cheap, low powered PC, usually running a Linux desktop or
    > tailored app, connected to a server where the smarts are. The server
    > can be local to the co., or out there in the vapour. That's today's
    > 'terminal'.
    >
    > The cloud processing and data storage is the next wave for small and
    > medium companies to be able to grow out of bad old habits (including all
    > the shit from Redmond) and into newer, leaner, agile products from many
    > companies that specialize in particular areas.[1]
    >
    > There are a lot of (near) turnkey solutions for small businesses out
    > there that include business ops (retailing, CRM (salesforce has been
    > around for a while), manage a small production facility, payroll, etc.,
    > etc., etc.). For the business it means No servers. No (or smaller) IT
    > dept. No delays. No backup planning (it's included), no growth
    > contingency planning (highly scalable), etc. Such apps online/data will
    > grow like crazy.
    >
    > Frankly, cloud has been around for a very long time, but not used by
    > all. The whole thing is tipping now towards it.
    >
    > I'm not a fan of it for personal use (my apps and data), but for
    > business it makes terrific sense because it eliminates capitalization
    > and introduces highly scalable, modular solutions.
    >
    > [1] - integration across these co's will be growing too (as will
    > consolidation via M&A + Darwin).
    >


    Indeed there have been vast improvements. I was simply referring to
    centralized data storage, and/or operation of programs, from one or more
    locations and workstations.
    ATTN: nospam. The above paragraph is to be construed in the generic sense.

    --
    PeterN
     
    PeterN, Jun 6, 2014
    #52
  13. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Saturday, 7 June 2014 00:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Fri, 6 Jun 2014 06:56:05 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    >


    >
    > >No, not part of the computer at all. An external drive is NOT part of the computer any more than an external monitor or printer are.

    >
    > >The word peripheral gives that away.

    >
    > >

    >
    > It wasn't always this way. I've used several computers where the
    >
    > hardware was so large that it was divided into modules and mounted in
    >
    > racks.


    Before my time but here's my colleges first computer being installed.

    http://vimeo.com/77387308.
    a ICT 1905E
    Here they also talk about sending their program by courior and a "direct access" link to bloombsbury, not remote access.




    > The Cromemco back to which I keep harping had the CPU and 8"
    > Persci floppys mounted in one box; the 8" 8MB IMI drives were in
    > another box; the Motorola modem was in another box and all were rack
    > mounted. Connections between the units was via ribbon cables.


    >
    >
    > The ICL 1300 was in several large boxes/frames with the internals
    > connected via a jungle of wires under the floor. See
    >
    > http://www.fcet.staffs.ac.uk/jdw1/sucfm/1962ICT1301.jpg


    They had a thing about portraying women with computers too didn't they.


    > The ICT 1900 was constructed of a number of separate modules in
    > separate frames, once again connected via a jungle of wires under the


    > floor. See
    >
    > http://ajovomultja.hu/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/41_ICT_1905.jpg


    even in the 80s wiring was laid under false floors.


    > Come to think of it, where do you think the term 'main frame' came
    > from?


    People are unsure it seems.

    >Computers started off being surrounded by peripheral devices
    > which were external to the computer's casing and connected to it by
    > cables.



    > >>Remote access to another computer meant
    > >> connecting to an entirely different computer located somewhere else.



    >
    > >Yes I did that playing reversi on the college mainframe using a Hazeltine 1510 conenct to a PAD line at 1200 baud.

    >


    > >> Things have advanced. We have gone to high-speed communication between
    > >> computers and high-speed communication between computers and devices.

    >
    >
    > >The speed isn't relivent.

    >
    >
    >
    > I think it is.


    Why ?

    >It's done a lot to remove the division between local
    > and remote devices.


    It;'s change the nothing other than a change terminology.

    >I've just had a real-time face to face
    > conversation with my daughter in Geneva. She was in her car somewhere
    > in the city and I was comfortably at home in Auckland. That would not
    > be possible without extraordinarily high speed data transmission.


    yes the speed of transmition not the distance that's what's relivant.


    > For all practical purposes, Google files in NA or Europe are as
    > accessible to me as those in the external drive on my computer(s).


    Not for most practical purposes. You do nto need a router or internet connection to access yuor external local drive.
    You also don;t have to pay an ISP.



    > For
    > practical purposes, much of the world's computing is one vast
    > homogenous system. That's not just due to connectivity but to data
    > transmisson speed as well.


    That's not relivent to the terminology a particaular person uses.
    The world really hasn't got smaller it's got larger it just takes less to to get from point A to point B or less time to comunicate that's all.




    >
    > >> Networking of devices means that you are no longer limited to 20m

    > >you were never were that limited it was at least 50 metres.

    >
    > >After that you used repeaters. In fact USB is far more limited as far asdistance is concerned.

    >


    > I think the problems with RS232 arose from ground loops and
    > capacitance. The ground loops were caused by the need to ground the
    > cable at each end and the capacitance problems were a function of
    > cable construction. It's probably 30 years since I had anything to do
    > with this and my memory is getting hazy. But one thing I am certaain
    > of: we never had any success connecting Beehive terminals to Cromemco
    > computer systems where the cable run exceed about 60'.


    Maybe that's down to the devices themselves we used to run cables of 100ft before we found problems.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232
    The standard does not define a maximum cable length but instead defines themaximum capacitance that a compliant drive circuit must tolerate. A widelyused rule of thumb indicates that cables more than 50 feet (15 m) long will have too much capacitance, unless special cables are used. By using low-capacitance cables, full speed communication can be maintained over larger distances up to about 1,000 feet (300 m).[10]




    >
    > >Remore access isn;t part of normal english usage.

    >
    >
    >
    > That sounds like the sort of get-out that nospam might use.


    Then that's one of the 'few' occassions where he'd be correct. ;-)

    Can you form a few sentance where the term remote access withoiut refering to computers ?

    > Of course it's part of normal English usage.


    No,

    But perhaps teh roiamns used it tpo decribe how they'd send their letters from the UK to home but I doubt it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_access


    > >> as expressed by Savageduck when he
    > >> inadvertantly started all this by writing "I can have all by (sic)
    > >> work on a 3TB drive at home, but it does nothing to give me access to
    > >> a file, be it a PDF draft, or a graphics file in progress at a remote

    >
    > How can Savageduck (or anyone else) have access to a file at remote
    > location without having remote access?


    No idea when you chose the wrong words.
    The term remote access means something particular to those that use it for what it's mean for. As you've already said yuo can use the term remote access for somethijng that is within hands reach, which defies the definition of remote in the normal sense of teh english language.




    > >But do you have remote access to your TV ?

    >
    > >can you only operate it from within the same room or very close by ?

    >
    > >If it'sd a remote control them surely you can control your TV from milesaway, or doesn;t you'r euse of the word remote extend beyond 20 metres ?

    >
    >
    >
    > I know there are buttons round the back somewhere but for all
    > practical purposes the remote control is part of the TV.


    No it's not. Years ago TV came without remotes.

    >In fact,
    > there are many functions on the remote control for which there is no
    > button on the back. The remote control is part of the TV.


    Not for me it isn't, it's a seperate device, they can be brought seperatly or supplied with the TV you can by universal ones that can control many things.
     
    Whisky-dave, Jun 9, 2014
    #53
  14. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Monday, 9 June 2014 23:10:00 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Mon, 9 Jun 2014 06:32:33 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave


    > >> >No, not part of the computer at all. An external drive is NOT part ofthe computer any more than an external monitor or printer are.

    >
    >
    > >> >The word peripheral gives that away.

    >
    > >> It wasn't always this way. I've used several computers where the

    >
    > >> hardware was so large that it was divided into modules and mounted in

    >
    > >> racks.

    >
    > >

    >
    > >Before my time but here's my colleges first computer being installed.

    >
    > >http://vimeo.com/77387308.

    >
    > > a ICT 1905E

    >
    > >Here they also talk about sending their program by courior and a "directaccess" link to bloombsbury, not remote access.

    >
    >
    >
    > But that was to 'Atlas', the biggest computer in the world outside the
    > CDC machines in the US defence network.


    Exactly it's the terminology, the link to bloombsbury a few miles away wasconsidered direct. It;'s the actions you take to get it there.

    So thre was NO remote access to bloombsbury or the USA.
    Remote access didn't exist.


    > >> The Cromemco back to which I keep harping had the CPU and 8"
    > >> Persci floppys mounted in one box; the 8" 8MB IMI drives were in
    > >> another box; the Motorola modem was in another box and all were rack
    > >> mounted. Connections between the units was via ribbon cables.

    >


    > >> The ICL 1300 was in several large boxes/frames with the internals
    > >> connected via a jungle of wires under the floor. See
    > >> http://www.fcet.staffs.ac.uk/jdw1/sucfm/1962ICT1301.jpg

    >
    > >

    >
    > >They had a thing about portraying women with computers too didn't they.


    >
    > >> The ICT 1900 was constructed of a number of separate modules in
    > >> separate frames, once again connected via a jungle of wires under the
    > >> floor. See
    > >> http://ajovomultja.hu/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/41_ICT_1905.jpg

    >
    > >even in the 80s wiring was laid under false floors.

    >
    > >


    > >> Come to think of it, where do you think the term 'main frame' came
    > >> from?


    > >People are unsure it seems.

    >


    > >>Computers started off being surrounded by peripheral devices
    > >> which were external to the computer's casing and connected to it by
    > >> cables.

    >


    > >> >>Remote access to another computer meant
    > >> >> connecting to an entirely different computer located somewhere else..

    >



    > >> >Yes I did that playing reversi on the college mainframe using a Hazeltine 1510 conenct to a PAD line at 1200 baud.

    >


    > >> >> Things have advanced. We have gone to high-speed communication between
    > >> >> computers and high-speed communication between computers and devices.


    > >> >The speed isn't relivent.

    >



    > >> I think it is.

    >
    >
    > >Why ?

    >
    >
    >
    > Because it enables to use and think about a machine on the other side
    > of the world as though it was your own.


    True and that is the main point as if it were your own, that could be the key phrase.
    The cloud is not a computer you own, you rent space on a hard drive that's all.
    The only control you have is whether or not to delete or create files and folders. You do NOT own the cloud. you rent a section of it.
    I do NOT own the aple servers but I can download files that make availble Ican even upload files as a cloud serviced I do NOT own either.




    > I remember reading an article where it was explained that the quickest
    > way to get data between two machines several miles apart was to put
    > the tape reel in your pack and ride your bicycle to the other machine.


    It was still true a few years ago there were some telescopes that were creating large volumes of data TB, and those were shipped to by lorry to the processing centre they now have a direct connection. The transfer of data between devices is NOT what is meant by remote access.

    > That quite spoils the effect of having the world at your finger tips.


    Didn't worry the Romans.



    > >>I've just had a real-time face to face
    > >> conversation with my daughter in Geneva. She was in her car somewhere
    > >> in the city and I was comfortably at home in Auckland. That would not
    > >> be possible without extraordinarily high speed data transmission.

    >
    > >

    >
    > >yes the speed of transmition not the distance that's what's relivant.

    >
    >
    >
    > That's what I said and which you originally responded to by saying
    > "The speed isn't relivent."


    But not to whether or not it's call remote access.
    You haven't remote access to your daughter, communication IS NOT the same as remote access. You can NOT feed or dress here, you can NOT touch her, youcan NOT give her a physical object, you are very restricted in what you can do.



    > >> For all practical purposes, Google files in NA or Europe are as
    > >> accessible to me as those in the external drive on my computer(s).

    >
    > >Not for most practical purposes. You do nto need a router or internet connection to access yuor external local drive.

    >
    > >You also don;t have to pay an ISP.

    >
    >
    >
    > I need a whole heap of services,


    No to connect to a local drive.

    > which if you think about it, is why
    > talking about direct access to remote files without going through
    > another computer is nonsense.


    Then they aren't remote files then are they.



    > >> For
    > >> practical purposes, much of the world's computing is one vast
    > >> homogenous system. That's not just due to connectivity but to data
    > >> transmisson speed as well.

    >
    > >

    >
    > >That's not relivent to the terminology a particaular person uses.

    >
    > >The world really hasn't got smaller it's got larger it just takes less to to get from point A to point B or less time to comunicate that's all.

    >




    > >> >> Networking of devices means that you are no longer limited to 20m
    > >> >you were never were that limited it was at least 50 metres.

    >
    > >> >After that you used repeaters. In fact USB is far more limited as faras distance is concerned.

    >


    > >> I think the problems with RS232 arose from ground loops and
    > >> capacitance. The ground loops were caused by the need to ground the
    > >> cable at each end and the capacitance problems were a function of
    > >> cable construction. It's probably 30 years since I had anything to do
    > >> with this and my memory is getting hazy. But one thing I am certaain



    > >Maybe that's down to the devices themselves we used to run cables of 100ft before we found problems.

    >
    > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232

    >
    > >The standard does not define a maximum cable length but instead defines the maximum capacitance that a compliant drive circuit must tolerate. A widely used rule of thumb indicates that cables more than 50 feet (15 m) long will have too much capacitance, unless special cables are used. By using low-capacitance cables, full speed communication can be maintained over larger distances up to about 1,000 feet (300 m).[10]

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > More likely it was due to the 5v that computers used for communic
    > ation compared with the 20v for which RS232 was designed.


    Computers also used RS232 for communication and it was 12V not 20V.
    Computers also used to work at 12V for their siganl levels.
    It was when TTL was introduced that dropped 'computer' voltages to 5V and even then some used +/- %V which gave you 10V, which was close enough to 12V to stanbd a chance of working. The there were other standard such as RS423 on the BBC computers. I used to conenct those to pad lines and other devices.



    > >> >Remore access isn;t part of normal english usage.

    >



    > >> That sounds like the sort of get-out that nospam might use.

    >
    > >

    >
    > >Then that's one of the 'few' occassions where he'd be correct. ;-)



    > >Can you form a few sentance where the term remote access withoiut refering to computers ?

    >



    > >> Of course it's part of normal English usage.



    > >> How can Savageduck (or anyone else) have access to a file at remote

    >
    > >> location without having remote access?

    >



    > >No idea when you chose the wrong words.

    >
    > >The term remote access means something particular to those that use it for what it's mean for.

    >
    >
    >
    > Now that's a lovely circular definition. :) :) :)


    Not at all, those that invented the term and those that know what the term was meant for use it correctly others mis-use the term, it's quite common especailly in technology, even in photography.
    Depth ofm filed and depth of focus both tell you about what;s in focus but they aren't the same. Some can;t tell the difernce between camera shake andmotion blurr, to photographer there's a disctinct difernce to someone thattakes photos the photo isn;t sharp or is out of focus.




    > >As you've already said yuo can use the term remote access for somethijngthat is within hands reach, which defies the definition of remote in the normal sense of teh english language.


    Yes exacly the term "remote access" has never been part of the standard english langauge.
    http://www.remoteaccess.org/remote-access-services/

    Can you find an earlier use of the word.
    Perhaps the Romans had remote access to most of the world 2000+ years ago.


    > That's why I defined it in topological terms.


    You didn't define it that way.

    The term remote access has been dumbed down from what it originally meant by those that don;t understand the term.
    I'ts like talking about the dark side of the moon, or the sun rising and seting, and snakes being poisonous.
     
    Whisky-dave, Jun 10, 2014
    #54
  15. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Wednesday, 11 June 2014 06:09:14 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 03:53:45 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    >
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >> Because it enables to use and think about a machine on the other side
    > >> of the world as though it was your own.

    >
    >
    > >True and that is the main point as if it were your own, that could be the key phrase.

    >
    > >The cloud is not a computer you own, you rent space on a hard drive that's all.

    >
    >
    >
    > But you have to use an awful lot of interconnected other firmware to
    > get access to it.


    of which the majority is user transparent, that's another key point.
    If you send yoyurself an email it van still go half way around the world and be stored opn a server in another contry but few need those details in order to carry out a task.
    Before you get to the firmware you have to have electricity but few of us need to generate our own electicity or need to know how to do it so that's not included in term "remote access" it is assumed you can aquire electricity.



    > Now that we have discussed it a little I think it is
    > clear that the term "remote access" means the same thing irrespective
    > of whetheer it is you or Savageduck which uses it.


    I know what it means to me and what it meant to those that 'coined' the phrase.
    I don;t care if others get it worng or misuse it, I only care if they use it wrongly and tell others they are correct.
     
    Whisky-dave, Jun 11, 2014
    #55
  16. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Wednesday, 11 June 2014 23:39:40 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 05:19:41 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    >
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > >On Wednesday, 11 June 2014 06:09:14 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:

    >
    > >> On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 03:53:45 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> <> wrote:

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> >> Because it enables to use and think about a machine on the other side

    >
    > >> >> of the world as though it was your own.

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> >True and that is the main point as if it were your own, that could be the key phrase.

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> >The cloud is not a computer you own, you rent space on a hard drive that's all.

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> But you have to use an awful lot of interconnected other firmware to

    >
    > >> get access to it.

    >
    > >

    >
    > >of which the majority is user transparent, that's another key point.

    >
    > >If you send yoyurself an email it van still go half way around the world and be stored opn a server in another contry but few need those details in order to carry out a task.

    >
    > >Before you get to the firmware you have to have electricity but few of us need to generate our own electicity or need to know how to do it so that's not included in term "remote access" it is assumed you can aquire electricity.

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > >> Now that we have discussed it a little I think it is

    >
    > >> clear that the term "remote access" means the same thing irrespective

    >
    > >> of whetheer it is you or Savageduck which uses it.

    >
    > >

    >
    > >I know what it means to me and what it meant to those that 'coined' the phrase.

    >
    > >I don;t care if others get it worng or misuse it, I only care if they use it wrongly and tell others they are correct.

    >
    >
    >
    > But Savageduck's remote access to his files means


    That's not remote access though, in the way the term was meant to be used.


    >that he has to
    >
    > contact other computers (name server, file server, decoder plus all
    >
    > kinds of stuff) and send them the necessary instructions to make them
    >
    > send back to his computer the data he has requested. Of course
    >
    > virtually everything is automated except at his end where he has to
    >
    > tell his computer what it is that he wants done.
    >
    >
    >
    > It gets a whole lot more complicated when,


    Which is why you change the terminology.


    > as is becoming increasingly
    > common, you don't just use the cloud for storing data but run
    > complicated processes (typically but not exclusively accounting
    > software) in the cloud.


    But you don't have contol over it.
    I do not have remote access to my local minicab firn but I do phone them and get them to send me a cab, that is NOT remote access.

    Would you say I have renmnote access to pizza hut too ?

    I DO NOT call that remote access.



    See
    >
    > https://www.xero.com/nz/try/online-...jrlcuVi4muVJO88Oj6JjU3FOpFEEuapZK-pjMbb_w_wcB
    >
    >
    >
    > 0r http://tinyurl.com/lowwf2k
    >
    > --
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    >
    >
    > Eric Stevens
     
    Whisky-dave, Jun 16, 2014
    #56
  17. RichA

    NotMe Guest

    "Eric Stevens" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 03:08:14 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Wednesday, 11 June 2014 23:39:40 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 05:19:41 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    >>>
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> >On Wednesday, 11 June 2014 06:09:14 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >> On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 03:53:45 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    >>>
    >>> >>
    >>>
    >>> >> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >>
    >>>
    >>> >> >> Because it enables to use and think about a machine on the other
    >>> >> >> side
    >>>
    >>> >> >> of the world as though it was your own.
    >>>
    >>> >>
    >>>
    >>> >>
    >>>
    >>> >> >True and that is the main point as if it were your own, that could
    >>> >> >be the key phrase.
    >>>
    >>> >>
    >>>
    >>> >> >The cloud is not a computer you own, you rent space on a hard drive
    >>> >> >that's all.
    >>>
    >>> >>
    >>>
    >>> >>
    >>>
    >>> >>
    >>>
    >>> >> But you have to use an awful lot of interconnected other firmware to
    >>>
    >>> >> get access to it.
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> >of which the majority is user transparent, that's another key point.
    >>>
    >>> >If you send yoyurself an email it van still go half way around the
    >>> >world and be stored opn a server in another contry but few need those
    >>> >details in order to carry out a task.
    >>>
    >>> >Before you get to the firmware you have to have electricity but few of
    >>> >us need to generate our own electicity or need to know how to do it so
    >>> >that's not included in term "remote access" it is assumed you can
    >>> >aquire electricity.
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> >> Now that we have discussed it a little I think it is
    >>>
    >>> >> clear that the term "remote access" means the same thing irrespective
    >>>
    >>> >> of whetheer it is you or Savageduck which uses it.
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> >I know what it means to me and what it meant to those that 'coined' the
    >>> >phrase.
    >>>
    >>> >I don;t care if others get it worng or misuse it, I only care if they
    >>> >use it wrongly and tell others they are correct.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> But Savageduck's remote access to his files means

    >>
    >>That's not remote access though, in the way the term was meant to be used.
    >>
    >>
    >>>that he has to
    >>>
    >>> contact other computers (name server, file server, decoder plus all
    >>>
    >>> kinds of stuff) and send them the necessary instructions to make them
    >>>
    >>> send back to his computer the data he has requested. Of course
    >>>
    >>> virtually everything is automated except at his end where he has to
    >>>
    >>> tell his computer what it is that he wants done.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> It gets a whole lot more complicated when,

    >>
    >>Which is why you change the terminology.
    >>
    >>
    >>> as is becoming increasingly
    >>> common, you don't just use the cloud for storing data but run
    >>> complicated processes (typically but not exclusively accounting
    >>> software) in the cloud.

    >>
    >>But you don't have contol over it.
    >> I do not have remote access to my local minicab firn but I do phone them
    >> and get them to send me a cab, that is NOT remote access.
    >>
    >>Would you say I have renmnote access to pizza hut too ?
    >>
    >>I DO NOT call that remote access.

    >
    > Neither do I.
    >
    > But if I can store my files in somebody else's computer system (aka
    > cloud) and work with them as though they were more or less on my own
    > computer then in my view that's still remote access as you would have
    > it. The fact that the interfaces between you and the files have been
    > automated to the point where you are barely aware of them does not
    > make it any less of 'remote access'.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>See
    >>>
    >>> https://www.xero.com/nz/try/online-...jrlcuVi4muVJO88Oj6JjU3FOpFEEuapZK-pjMbb_w_wcB
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> 0r http://tinyurl.com/lowwf2k



    >>>

    Adobe's 'Creative Cloud' Goes Offline-and Takes a Million Designers With It
    The design world is utterly dependent on a single software cloud. What
    happens when it suddenly goes down?
    Imagine you're working in an office building and the lights on every floor
    suddenly go out and stay out. Hours pass, then an entire day, and the office
    is still dark. When the power company bothers to acknowledge that there's a
    problem, they don't say when the juice might come back. So they wait
    frantically in the gloom.

    That despair is not unlike what over a million designers, graphic artists,
    and developers who rely daily on Adobe's Creative Cloud Suite felt on
    Wednesday and Thursday as the service went down for over 24 hours.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ne-and-takes-a-million-designers-with-it.html
     
    NotMe, Jun 17, 2014
    #57
  18. RichA

    J. Clarke Guest

    In article <lno0bu$9c0$>, says...
    >
    > "Eric Stevens" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 03:08:14 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    > > <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>On Wednesday, 11 June 2014 23:39:40 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > >>> On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 05:19:41 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    > >>>
    > >>> <> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> >On Wednesday, 11 June 2014 06:09:14 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> >> On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 03:53:45 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    > >>>
    > >>> >>
    > >>>
    > >>> >> <> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> >>
    > >>>
    > >>> >> >> Because it enables to use and think about a machine on the other
    > >>> >> >> side
    > >>>
    > >>> >> >> of the world as though it was your own.
    > >>>
    > >>> >>
    > >>>
    > >>> >>
    > >>>
    > >>> >> >True and that is the main point as if it were your own, that could
    > >>> >> >be the key phrase.
    > >>>
    > >>> >>
    > >>>
    > >>> >> >The cloud is not a computer you own, you rent space on a hard drive
    > >>> >> >that's all.
    > >>>
    > >>> >>
    > >>>
    > >>> >>
    > >>>
    > >>> >>
    > >>>
    > >>> >> But you have to use an awful lot of interconnected other firmware to
    > >>>
    > >>> >> get access to it.
    > >>>
    > >>> >
    > >>>
    > >>> >of which the majority is user transparent, that's another key point.
    > >>>
    > >>> >If you send yoyurself an email it van still go half way around the
    > >>> >world and be stored opn a server in another contry but few need those
    > >>> >details in order to carry out a task.
    > >>>
    > >>> >Before you get to the firmware you have to have electricity but few of
    > >>> >us need to generate our own electicity or need to know how to do it so
    > >>> >that's not included in term "remote access" it is assumed you can
    > >>> >aquire electricity.
    > >>>
    > >>> >
    > >>>
    > >>> >
    > >>>
    > >>> >
    > >>>
    > >>> >> Now that we have discussed it a little I think it is
    > >>>
    > >>> >> clear that the term "remote access" means the same thing irrespective
    > >>>
    > >>> >> of whetheer it is you or Savageduck which uses it.
    > >>>
    > >>> >
    > >>>
    > >>> >I know what it means to me and what it meant to those that 'coined' the
    > >>> >phrase.
    > >>>
    > >>> >I don;t care if others get it worng or misuse it, I only care if they
    > >>> >use it wrongly and tell others they are correct.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> But Savageduck's remote access to his files means
    > >>
    > >>That's not remote access though, in the way the term was meant to be used.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>that he has to
    > >>>
    > >>> contact other computers (name server, file server, decoder plus all
    > >>>
    > >>> kinds of stuff) and send them the necessary instructions to make them
    > >>>
    > >>> send back to his computer the data he has requested. Of course
    > >>>
    > >>> virtually everything is automated except at his end where he has to
    > >>>
    > >>> tell his computer what it is that he wants done.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> It gets a whole lot more complicated when,
    > >>
    > >>Which is why you change the terminology.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>> as is becoming increasingly
    > >>> common, you don't just use the cloud for storing data but run
    > >>> complicated processes (typically but not exclusively accounting
    > >>> software) in the cloud.
    > >>
    > >>But you don't have contol over it.
    > >> I do not have remote access to my local minicab firn but I do phone them
    > >> and get them to send me a cab, that is NOT remote access.
    > >>
    > >>Would you say I have renmnote access to pizza hut too ?
    > >>
    > >>I DO NOT call that remote access.

    > >
    > > Neither do I.
    > >
    > > But if I can store my files in somebody else's computer system (aka
    > > cloud) and work with them as though they were more or less on my own
    > > computer then in my view that's still remote access as you would have
    > > it. The fact that the interfaces between you and the files have been
    > > automated to the point where you are barely aware of them does not
    > > make it any less of 'remote access'.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>See
    > >>>
    > >>> https://www.xero.com/nz/try/online-...jrlcuVi4muVJO88Oj6JjU3FOpFEEuapZK-pjMbb_w_wcB
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> 0r http://tinyurl.com/lowwf2k

    >
    >
    > >>>

    > Adobe's 'Creative Cloud' Goes Offline-and Takes a Million Designers With It
    > The design world is utterly dependent on a single software cloud. What
    > happens when it suddenly goes down?
    > Imagine you're working in an office building and the lights on every floor
    > suddenly go out and stay out. Hours pass, then an entire day, and the office
    > is still dark. When the power company bothers to acknowledge that there's a
    > problem, they don't say when the juice might come back. So they wait
    > frantically in the gloom.
    >
    > That despair is not unlike what over a million designers, graphic artists,
    > and developers who rely daily on Adobe's Creative Cloud Suite felt on
    > Wednesday and Thursday as the service went down for over 24 hours.
    >
    > http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ne-and-takes-a-million-designers-with-it.html


    Reading that article, it appears that the problem was not that CS quit
    working, it was that web-based services provided by Adobe to publish to
    particular targets went down. If you had CS6 thos services would still
    have been down.
     
    J. Clarke, Jun 17, 2014
    #58
  19. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, J. Clarke
    <> wrote:

    > Reading that article, it appears that the problem was not that CS quit
    > working, it was that web-based services provided by Adobe to publish to
    > particular targets went down. If you had CS6 thos services would still
    > have been down.


    which won't matter if someone doesn't use those particular services,
    which not everyone does.
     
    nospam, Jun 17, 2014
    #59
  20. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Monday, 16 June 2014 23:46:53 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 03:08:14 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    >


    >
    > >Would you say I have renmnote access to pizza hut too ?

    >
    > >

    >
    > >I DO NOT call that remote access.

    >
    > Neither do I.


    > But if I can store my files in somebody else's computer system (aka
    > cloud) and work with them as though they were more or less on my own
    > computer then in my view that's still remote access as you would have
    > it. The fact that the interfaces between you and the files have been
    > automated to the point where you are barely aware of them does not
    > make it any less of 'remote access'.


    True remote access is MORE than just storing files.
    Your computer MUST 'control' the remote computer so it actually becomes a full
     
    Whisky-dave, Jun 17, 2014
    #60
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