Anyone with graphics experience?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Nik Coughin, Sep 27, 2004.

  1. Nik Coughin

    Nik Coughin Guest

    This is a multipost, I also posted this to
    comp.graphics.apps.paint-shop-pro. I would have cross-posted, but I only
    thought of posting here some 10 minutes after I'd already made the original
    post. Hope this doesn't upset anyone unduly.

    I'm using Paint Shop Pro, but the techniques used should be analogous to any
    decent image editor.

    I am trying to knock up a sign with grass around its base to go on a white
    background.

    Here is what I've done so far:
    http://www.nrkn.com/sign/

    The sign was easy, used vectors, gradient and texture fills. I am quite
    happy with it.

    I then found a picture of a tree with grass around it to use as a base for
    the grass around the bottom of the sign.

    So far so good.

    I'm just struggling with getting the grass to sit on top of the white
    background and look natural (or even reasonable). I pretty much stuck the
    grass both under and over the sign, then used the eraser to get rid of all
    of it except for a patch around the sign base. I then used the push tool to
    move grass around the edges of the base in order to get rid of the smooth
    edges from the eraser and to introduce a little randomness.

    I'm not happy with the result at all.

    Any ideas on how I could go about doing this?

    TIA!

    --
    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
    typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" - Blair Houghton
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    http://www.nrkn.com/
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     
    Nik Coughin, Sep 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 27, 2004
    #2
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  3. Nik Coughin

    Allistar Guest

    Nik Coughin wrote:

    [snip]

    > I'm not happy with the result at all.
    >
    > Any ideas on how I could go about doing this?


    I think the reason the final image still looks fake is not because of the
    grass but because the pole for the sign looks too fake. What about using
    the tree in the "reality" image for the pole?

    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Sep 27, 2004
    #3
  4. Nik Coughin

    Craig Shore Guest

    On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:50:32 +1200, "Nik Coughin" <nrkn!no-spam!@woosh.co.nz>
    wrote:


    >Any ideas on how I could go about doing this?


    The light on the pole and the grass are different. The grass is too dark for
    the bright pole. Darken the pole or lighten the grass.

    But then again, I suck at graphics so I could be totally wrong :)
     
    Craig Shore, Sep 27, 2004
    #4
  5. Nik Coughin

    K T T Guest

    Nik Coughin wrote:
    > This is a multipost, I also posted this to
    > comp.graphics.apps.paint-shop-pro. I would have cross-posted, but I only
    > thought of posting here some 10 minutes after I'd already made the original
    > post. Hope this doesn't upset anyone unduly.
    >
    > I'm using Paint Shop Pro, but the techniques used should be analogous to any
    > decent image editor.
    >
    > I am trying to knock up a sign with grass around its base to go on a white
    > background.
    >
    > Here is what I've done so far:
    > http://www.nrkn.com/sign/
    >
    > The sign was easy, used vectors, gradient and texture fills. I am quite
    > happy with it.
    >
    > I then found a picture of a tree with grass around it to use as a base for
    > the grass around the bottom of the sign.
    >
    > So far so good.
    >
    > I'm just struggling with getting the grass to sit on top of the white
    > background and look natural (or even reasonable). I pretty much stuck the
    > grass both under and over the sign, then used the eraser to get rid of all
    > of it except for a patch around the sign base. I then used the push tool to
    > move grass around the edges of the base in order to get rid of the smooth
    > edges from the eraser and to introduce a little randomness.
    >
    > I'm not happy with the result at all.
    >
    > Any ideas on how I could go about doing this?
    >
    > TIA!
    >

    Looks pretty good to me. I think you have been working on it for too
    long. You begin to see defects that arent really there. Leave it alone
    for a few hours, when you come back to it later it may look better.
     
    K T T, Sep 27, 2004
    #5
  6. Nik Coughin

    JJD Guest

    On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:19:39 +1200, K T T <>
    wrote:

    >> I'm not happy with the result at all.
    >>
    >> Any ideas on how I could go about doing this?
    >>
    >> TIA!
    >>

    >Looks pretty good to me. I think you have been working on it for too
    >long. You begin to see defects that arent really there. Leave it alone
    >for a few hours, when you come back to it later it may look better.


    That's a good comment - these things often look better when you leave
    them alone for a while.

    That said, there are a few things that might help: The light source
    for the grass and the pole and sign is coming from different
    directions. In the tree picture it is above and slightly behind the
    tree. In the final it is in front of the pole and sign. Take a
    picture of the grass and tree when the light angle matches the pole.

    The pole is not real world - either use a real pole or use fake grass.

    The grass area is too small. Make it quite a bit wider and feather
    the bottom off over about a quarter of the grass height from the
    bottom, rather than hard-edging it as you've done.

    The sign moves away from the viewer on the right, yet it has no
    perspective to show this. I suggest you add this perspective after
    you've applied the text, so that you can flatten the image and take
    the text to the same perspective. Not too much perspective - just
    enough to convince the eye.

    JJD
     
    JJD, Sep 27, 2004
    #6
  7. Nik Coughin

    JJD Guest

    On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:14:38 +1200, JJD <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:19:39 +1200, K T T <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>> I'm not happy with the result at all.
    >>>
    >>> Any ideas on how I could go about doing this?
    >>>
    >>> TIA!
    >>>

    >>Looks pretty good to me. I think you have been working on it for too
    >>long. You begin to see defects that arent really there. Leave it alone
    >>for a few hours, when you come back to it later it may look better.

    >
    >That's a good comment - these things often look better when you leave
    >them alone for a while.
    >
    >That said, there are a few things that might help: The light source
    >for the grass and the pole and sign is coming from different
    >directions. In the tree picture it is above and slightly behind the
    >tree. In the final it is in front of the pole and sign. Take a
    >picture of the grass and tree when the light angle matches the pole.
    >
    >The pole is not real world - either use a real pole or use fake grass.
    >
    >The grass area is too small. Make it quite a bit wider and feather
    >the bottom off over about a quarter of the grass height from the
    >bottom, rather than hard-edging it as you've done.
    >
    >The sign moves away from the viewer on the right, yet it has no
    >perspective to show this. I suggest you add this perspective after
    >you've applied the text, so that you can flatten the image and take
    >the text to the same perspective. Not too much perspective - just
    >enough to convince the eye.
    >

    I changed my mind. Don't feather the bottom of the grass. Just make
    it wider and the add the same amount of perspective to it as you do to
    the sign. Part of the oddness you have is the mismatch of
    perspectives and angles between the grass and the sign.

    JJD
     
    JJD, Sep 27, 2004
    #7
  8. It seems like Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:50:32 +1200 was when "Nik Coughin"
    <nrkn!no-spam!@woosh.co.nz> said Blah blah blah...

    >I'm just struggling with getting the grass to sit on top of the white
    >background and look natural (or even reasonable). I pretty much stuck the
    >grass both under and over the sign, then used the eraser to get rid of all
    >of it except for a patch around the sign base. I then used the push tool to
    >move grass around the edges of the base in order to get rid of the smooth
    >edges from the eraser and to introduce a little randomness.


    Perhaps it's because the grass is real? I think because the sign looks
    drawn, perhaps the grass should be too, so there's a continuity in
    style.

    Here's a quick (like 20 second) example of what I did with Paint Shop
    Pro's default Picture Tube, using the grass picture
    http://www.attesa.org/sign.jpg
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
     
    Waylon Kenning, Sep 27, 2004
    #8
  9. Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 27, 2004
    #9
  10. Nik Coughin

    Nik Coughin Guest

    Nik Coughin wrote:
    >
    > I am trying to knock up a sign with grass around its base to go on a
    > white background.
    >


    Thanks everyone. Got more help here than I did in the PSP group :)

    Taking a number of suggestions into account (mainly, using fake instead of
    real grass, perspective etc.) I came up with this:

    http://www.nrkn.com/sign/signWithLawn.jpg

    Looks heaps better, cheers.
     
    Nik Coughin, Sep 27, 2004
    #10
  11. Nik Coughin

    hoot Guest

    Looks pretty good to me! Maybe the grass is a bit too dark for the rest
    of the image..... try lightening it up a bit.
     
    hoot, Sep 27, 2004
    #11
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