Anyone dump Paradise cable and switch to DSL any ISP

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Kazonme, Mar 5, 2005.

  1. Kazonme

    Kazonme Guest

    Sorry re-post.. spell checker not work :))



    Any paradise cable users dump the ISP and switch over to another
    DSL ISP or UBS stuff?



    and of course the cost incur and setting up, churn fee etc?
    Kazonme, Mar 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. Kazonme

    thing Guest

    Kazonme wrote:
    > Sorry re-post.. spell checker not work :))
    >
    >
    >
    > Any paradise cable users dump the ISP and switch over to another
    > DSL ISP or UBS stuff?
    >
    >
    >
    > and of course the cost incur and setting up, churn fee etc?
    >
    >
    >
    >


    I went the opposite way, (ADSL --> CABLE) never regreted it, never paid
    an excess volume charge since, had 99.99% uptime, never had to deal with
    the assholes at Telecom/Xtra.

    Try reading the Orcon posts in here over the last 2 months, for an
    insite into DSL...........

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Mar 5, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. thing wrote:
    >> Any paradise cable users dump the ISP and switch over to another
    >> DSL ISP or UBS stuff?


    > I went the opposite way, (ADSL --> CABLE) never regreted it, never paid
    > an excess volume charge since, had 99.99% uptime, never had to deal with
    > the assholes at Telecom/Xtra.


    Hows the post de-peer latency?
    Are they still claiming that national traffic is only charged at 1/10 of
    international?
    could you tracert to a few site known to be hosted in nz for me(mine is
    for a start)?

    --
    Dave.net.nz
    reply addy is e
    nice! http://www.dave.net.nz/images/link.jpg
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Mar 5, 2005
    #3
  4. Kazonme

    thing Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > thing wrote:
    >
    >>> Any paradise cable users dump the ISP and switch over to another
    >>> DSL ISP or UBS stuff?

    >
    >
    >> I went the opposite way, (ADSL --> CABLE) never regreted it, never
    >> paid an excess volume charge since, had 99.99% uptime, never had to
    >> deal with the assholes at Telecom/Xtra.

    >
    >
    > Hows the post de-peer latency?
    > Are they still claiming that national traffic is only charged at 1/10 of
    > international?
    > could you tracert to a few site known to be hosted in nz for me(mine is
    > for a start)?
    >


    I looked last week and just now it was/is still split,

    ".....
    Billing Period International National Equivalent

    All Billing Periods...
    2004-12-07 to 2005-01-06 2123.87 1832.78 2307.15
    2005-01-07 to 2005-02-06 952.46 97.77 962.24
    2005-02-07 to 2005-03-06 513.55 667.07 580.26
    ......"

    heh, traceroute maybe......I dont do tracert......

    [thing@kaitan thing]$ traceroute dave.net.nz
    traceroute to dave.net.nz (202.150.101.5), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
    1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.594 ms 0.242 ms 0.200 ms
    2 cerberus (192.168.0.254) 1.905 ms 0.689 ms 0.658 ms
    3 fe7-3-2.bertha.paradise.net.nz (203.79.92.1) 8.891 ms 8.257 ms
    8.846 ms
    4 g1-0-1042.u21.tar.telstraclear.net (203.98.23.41) 11.815 ms 23.107
    ms 11. 132 ms
    5 clear-ba1-atm1.wix.net.nz (202.7.0.192) 15.055 ms 18.437 ms 11.677 ms
    6 jcore2-ge-0-2-0-20-wgtn.wellington.clix.net.nz (203.97.9.29) 15.217
    ms 22. 317 ms 18.863 ms
    7 jcore2-at-0-1-0-1-acld.auckland.clix.net.nz (203.97.7.77) 27.717 ms
    21.049 ms 19.768 ms
    8 218.101.61.9 (218.101.61.9) 22.293 ms 32.830 ms 19.890 ms
    9 clix-conceptnet-nz.cpe.clix.net.nz (203.167.219.182) 20.305 ms
    24.369 ms 26.296 ms
    10 fe24-0-0.cr1.akl1.concept.net.nz (202.150.96.253) 26.129 ms 46.958
    ms 48.626 ms
    11 fe1-0-0.ar1.akl1.concept.net.nz (202.150.96.250) 28.572 ms 23.281
    ms 22.878 ms
    12 ser0-0-133.br1.dun1.synaptic.net.nz (202.150.111.10) 56.611 ms
    83.439 ms 59.829 ms
    13 cr.dun1.synaptic.net.nz (202.150.101.126) 54.031 ms 47.912 ms
    56.391 ms
    14 web.synaptic.net.nz (202.150.101.5) 53.590 ms 65.743 ms 59.404 ms

    This is interesting.....Clear are a bunch of bastards on this one
    (trademe) looks like it goes over to the US (Alter.net) and then back
    via trademe's ISP, AT&T.

    From what I heard Clear tried to put a gun to Trademe's head (and
    indeed smaller ISPs to get an extra %....

    [thing@kaitan thing]$ traceroute www.trademe.co.nz
    traceroute to trademe.co.nz (202.21.128.2), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
    1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.379 ms 0.222 ms 0.209 ms
    2 cerberus (192.168.0.254) 0.810 ms 0.820 ms 0.675 ms
    3 fe7-3-2.bertha.paradise.net.nz (203.79.92.1) 15.277 ms 8.682 ms
    10.405 ms
    4 ge0-0-0-5.haley.paradise.net.nz (203.96.152.254) 13.496 ms 10.023
    ms 9.035 ms
    5 ge0-1-0-938.icore1.sym.telstraclear.net (203.98.48.1) 23.862 ms
    22.745 ms 21.803 ms
    6 ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net (203.98.50.251) 21.776 ms
    31.972 ms 20.246 ms
    7 xcore2.tspn.telstraclear.net (203.98.42.66) 143.222 ms 162.747 ms
    156.189 ms
    8 GigabitEthernet3-0.GW1.LAX1.ALTER.NET (157.130.245.21) 157.118 ms
    164.842 ms 157.604 ms
    9 0.so-0-0-0.XL1.LAX1.ALTER.NET (152.63.112.218) 155.653 ms 163.968
    ms 155.243 ms
    10 0.so-1-1-0.XL1.LAX7.ALTER.NET (152.63.57.78) 164.767 ms 163.191 ms
    163.274 ms
    11 0.so-6-1-0.BR1.LAX7.ALTER.NET (152.63.113.1) 163.139 ms 175.668 ms
    171.486 ms
    12 204.255.168.30 (204.255.168.30) 156.454 ms 157.335 ms 156.169 ms
    13 tbr1-p014001.la2ca.ip.att.net (12.123.29.2) 160.729 ms 159.065 ms
    158.066 ms
    14 tbr2-cl3.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.10.25) 167.894 ms 161.101 ms
    169.512 ms
    15 gbr5-p20.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.11.90) 176.886 ms 176.829 ms
    175.394 ms
    16 gar2-p360.sffca.ip.att.net (12.123.13.149) 167.393 ms 160.423 ms
    166.708 ms
    17 12.124.35.81 (12.124.35.81) 166.719 ms 170.089 ms 167.497 ms
    18 chic-br6-s5-p2.il.us.prserv.net (165.87.71.41) 169.127 ms 174.427
    ms 165.979 ms
    19 ausydn1102cr1-5-1-1.au.ip.att.net (165.87.66.45) 196.500 ms
    198.087 ms 199.025 ms
    MPLS Label=245 CoS=6 TTL=1 S=0
    20 ausydn2102cr1-5-1-2.au.ip.att.net (165.87.66.34) 329.642 ms
    327.959 ms 329.679 ms
    MPLS Label=30 CoS=6 TTL=1 S=0
    21 jptoky2101er2-2-0-0.to.jp.ip.att.net (165.87.66.85) 204.998 ms
    195.573 ms 196.864 ms
    22 32.114.204.14 (32.114.204.14) 198.950 ms 201.032 ms 198.915 ms
    23 202.135.231.252 (202.135.231.252) 186.093 ms 196.625 ms 200.603 ms
    24 * * *

    [thing@kaitan thing]$ traceroute www.stuff.co.nz
    traceroute to www.stuff.co.nz (202.135.111.130), 30 hops max, 38 byte
    packets
    1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.408 ms 0.221 ms 0.198 ms
    2 cerberus (192.168.0.254) 3.723 ms 0.767 ms 0.820 ms
    3 fe7-3-2.bertha.paradise.net.nz (203.79.92.1) 18.438 ms 8.597 ms
    10.814 ms
    4 g1-0-1042.u21.tar.telstraclear.net (203.98.23.41) 12.770 ms
    10.130 ms 11.465 ms
    5 g9-0.1041.u12.brh.telstraclear.net (203.98.21.37) 21.116 ms
    27.366 ms 21.598 ms
    6 32.107.64.1 (32.107.64.1) 23.635 ms 32.115 ms 19.434 ms
    7 nzwgtn1101er2-1-0-0-1.nz.ip.att.net (165.87.66.118) 32.593 ms
    34.400 ms 29.793 ms
    8 32.114.204.14 (32.114.204.14) 31.705 ms 38.298 ms 31.349 ms
    9 * * *
    10 * *

    [thing@kaitan thing]$ traceroute www.xtra.co.nz
    traceroute to xtra.co.nz (202.27.184.102), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
    1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.376 ms 0.331 ms 0.278 ms
    2 cerberus (192.168.0.254) 0.783 ms 0.809 ms 0.808 ms
    3 fe7-3-2.bertha.paradise.net.nz (203.79.92.1) 11.163 ms 13.613 ms
    9.378 ms
    4 g1-0-1042.u21.tar.telstraclear.net (203.98.23.41) 19.768 ms
    11.673 ms 11.991 ms
    5 g9-0.1041.u12.brh.telstraclear.net (203.98.21.37) 29.140 ms
    25.065 ms 22.812 ms
    6 ggis-gige-v906.telstraclear.net (203.98.18.67) 24.446 ms 21.959
    ms 22.022 ms
    7 ge4-2.aksw7.global-gateway.net.nz (203.96.120.177) 19.833 ms
    41.370 ms 37.441 ms
    8 xtra-dom-1.aksw7.global-gateway.net.nz (203.96.120.146) 24.679 ms
    23.465 ms 20.966 ms
    9 * * *

    [thing@kaitan thing]$ traceroute www.wises.co.nz
    traceroute to www.wises.co.nz (203.99.64.40), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
    1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.407 ms 0.366 ms 0.331 ms
    2 cerberus (192.168.0.254) 0.846 ms 0.885 ms 0.823 ms
    3 fe7-3-2.bertha.paradise.net.nz (203.79.92.1) 21.149 ms 8.684 ms
    12.300 ms
    4 g1-0-1042.u21.tar.telstraclear.net (203.98.23.41) 12.843 ms
    11.776 ms 25.025 ms
    5 g9-0.1041.u12.brh.telstraclear.net (203.98.21.37) 24.227 ms
    24.248 ms 22.520 ms
    6 lnk-degussa.atm12-3-129.u12.brh.telstraclear.net (203.98.23.238)
    21.022 ms 21.921 ms 24.777 ms
    7 apngw6.apn.co.nz (203.99.66.6) 23.259 ms 25.682 ms 22.543 ms
    8 *
    thing, Mar 5, 2005
    #4
  5. thing wrote:
    >> Hows the post de-peer latency?
    >> Are they still claiming that national traffic is only charged at 1/10
    >> of international?
    >> could you tracert to a few site known to be hosted in nz for me(mine
    >> is for a start)?


    > I looked last week and just now it was/is still split,


    ok then.

    > ".....
    > Billing Period International National Equivalent
    >
    > All Billing Periods...
    > 2004-12-07 to 2005-01-06 2123.87 1832.78 2307.15
    > 2005-01-07 to 2005-02-06 952.46 97.77 962.24
    > 2005-02-07 to 2005-03-06 513.55 667.07 580.26
    > ......"


    I wonder whether or not they just do a check for .nz on the end...
    that'd be silly, but interesting.

    > heh, traceroute maybe......I dont do tracert......


    thanks for that, I wondered what is was looking like, and it doesnt
    appear as bad as was once thought it would be.

    --
    Dave.net.nz
    reply addy is e
    nice! http://www.dave.net.nz/images/link.jpg
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Mar 5, 2005
    #5
  6. Kazonme

    thing Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > thing wrote:
    >
    >>> Hows the post de-peer latency?
    >>> Are they still claiming that national traffic is only charged at 1/10
    >>> of international?
    >>> could you tracert to a few site known to be hosted in nz for me(mine
    >>> is for a start)?

    >
    >
    >> I looked last week and just now it was/is still split,

    >
    >
    > ok then.
    >
    >> ".....
    >> Billing Period International National Equivalent
    >> All Billing Periods...
    >> 2004-12-07 to 2005-01-06 2123.87 1832.78 2307.15
    >> 2005-01-07 to 2005-02-06 952.46 97.77 962.24
    >> 2005-02-07 to 2005-03-06 513.55 667.07 580.26
    >> ......"

    >
    >
    > I wonder whether or not they just do a check for .nz on the end...
    > that'd be silly, but interesting.
    >
    >> heh, traceroute maybe......I dont do tracert......

    >
    >
    > thanks for that, I wondered what is was looking like, and it doesnt
    > appear as bad as was once thought it would be.
    >



    I will see if I can catch my billing to trademe's IP, see if I am
    charged local or International.

    I do not suppose there is much I can do about it though

    :/

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Mar 5, 2005
    #6
  7. Kazonme

    Daniel Guest

    thing wrote:
    >
    > From what I heard Clear tried to put a gun to Trademe's head (and
    > indeed smaller ISPs to get an extra %....
    >
    > [thing@kaitan thing]$ traceroute www.trademe.co.nz
    > traceroute to trademe.co.nz (202.21.128.2), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
    > 1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.379 ms 0.222 ms 0.209 ms

    <snip>
    > 7 xcore2.tspn.telstraclear.net (203.98.42.66) 143.222 ms 162.747 ms
    > 156.189 ms
    > 8 GigabitEthernet3-0.GW1.LAX1.ALTER.NET (157.130.245.21) 157.118 ms
    > 164.842 ms 157.604 ms
    > 9 0.so-0-0-0.XL1.LAX1.ALTER.NET (152.63.112.218) 155.653 ms 163.968
    > ms 155.243 ms
    >


    Absolutely diabolical!!!

    That explains the sudden inexplicable increase in international traffic
    I've been getting.

    This issue deserves a complete thread of it's own.
    Daniel, Mar 5, 2005
    #7
  8. On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 20:07:47 +1300, Daniel <> wrote:

    >thing wrote:
    >>
    >> From what I heard Clear tried to put a gun to Trademe's head (and
    >> indeed smaller ISPs to get an extra %....
    >>
    >> [thing@kaitan thing]$ traceroute www.trademe.co.nz
    >> traceroute to trademe.co.nz (202.21.128.2), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
    >> 1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.379 ms 0.222 ms 0.209 ms

    ><snip>
    >> 7 xcore2.tspn.telstraclear.net (203.98.42.66) 143.222 ms 162.747 ms
    >> 156.189 ms
    >> 8 GigabitEthernet3-0.GW1.LAX1.ALTER.NET (157.130.245.21) 157.118 ms
    >> 164.842 ms 157.604 ms
    >> 9 0.so-0-0-0.XL1.LAX1.ALTER.NET (152.63.112.218) 155.653 ms 163.968
    >> ms 155.243 ms
    >>

    >
    >Absolutely diabolical!!!
    >
    >That explains the sudden inexplicable increase in international traffic
    >I've been getting.
    >
    >This issue deserves a complete thread of it's own.




    I found out some more Info, affects all users from Telstra/Clear going to
    Telecom web sites..

    Telscum playing silly games again, no connection agreement.


    A good case for the Comers Commission, but then you will all be dead before it
    did any thing..
    BILL bs.xxxxxxxxxx.corn, Mar 5, 2005
    #8
  9. Kazonme

    Daniel Guest

    Daniel wrote:
    >
    > Absolutely diabolical!!!
    >
    > That explains the sudden inexplicable increase in international traffic
    > I've been getting.
    >
    > This issue deserves a complete thread of it's own.


    Bit slow aren't I :p

    Yes, I see this has already been news:
    http://www.webfroot.co.nz/archives/2005/02/24/telstraclear-de-peer

    (Still annoyed though)
    Daniel, Mar 5, 2005
    #9
  10. Kazonme

    Daniel Guest

    Daniel wrote:
    > Daniel wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Absolutely diabolical!!!
    >>
    >> That explains the sudden inexplicable increase in international
    >> traffic I've been getting.
    >>
    >> This issue deserves a complete thread of it's own.

    >
    >
    > Bit slow aren't I :p
    >
    > Yes, I see this has already been news:
    > http://www.webfroot.co.nz/archives/2005/02/24/telstraclear-de-peer
    >
    > (Still annoyed though)


    Okay, so TelstraClear do a bit of strategic routing to effectively shaft
    Telecom (well, that's the theory), but they're also hurting us cable
    users who think NZ traffic at 1/10th cost of international is really
    cool - especially for the busiest website in the country.

    Hmmm.... I wonder if they could change their routing tables for those of
    us on their cable network (we have static IPs after all)... nah, that
    would be too clever.
    Daniel, Mar 5, 2005
    #10
  11. Kazonme

    Daniel Guest

    Daniel wrote:
    > Daniel wrote:
    >
    > Okay, so TelstraClear do a bit of strategic routing to effectively shaft
    > Telecom (well, that's the theory), but they're also hurting us cable
    > users who think NZ traffic at 1/10th cost of international is really
    > cool - especially for the busiest website in the country.
    >
    > Hmmm.... I wonder if they could change their routing tables for those of
    > us on their cable network (we have static IPs after all)... nah, that
    > would be too clever.


    However, it would appear the move to de-peer from WIX is going to backfire:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10113474

    Surely, TelstraClear would've seen that one coming - you'd think?
    Daniel, Mar 5, 2005
    #11
  12. thing wrote:
    >> thanks for that, I wondered what is was looking like, and it doesnt
    >> appear as bad as was once thought it would be.


    > I will see if I can catch my billing to trademe's IP, see if I am
    > charged local or International.


    after midnight grab something large from /files on my site, and see what
    happens

    --
    Dave.net.nz
    reply addy is e
    nice! http://www.dave.net.nz/images/link.jpg
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Mar 5, 2005
    #12
  13. BILL bs.xxxxxxxxxx.corn wrote:
    > I found out some more Info, affects all users from Telstra/Clear going to
    > Telecom web sites..


    not just Telecom sites.

    > Telscum playing silly games again, no connection agreement.


    not just Telecom, Telstra pulled out too, both are playing silly buggers
    thinking that they can force everyone else into doing what they want.

    --
    Dave.net.nz
    reply addy is e
    nice! http://www.dave.net.nz/images/link.jpg
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Mar 5, 2005
    #13
  14. Dave - Dave.net.nz, Mar 5, 2005
    #14
  15. Kazonme

    Axle Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > BILL bs.xxxxxxxxxx.corn wrote:
    >
    >> I found out some more Info, affects all users from Telstra/Clear
    >> going to
    >> Telecom web sites..

    >
    >
    > not just Telecom sites.
    >
    >> Telscum playing silly games again, no connection agreement.

    >
    >
    > not just Telecom, Telstra pulled out too, both are playing silly buggers
    > thinking that they can force everyone else into doing what they want.
    >


    Carry on showing us the way with that wireless isp.
    Its the only alternative to these telco pricks silly games
    Axle, Mar 5, 2005
    #15
  16. Kazonme

    ChrisOD Guest

    In article <>, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > thing wrote:
    >>> Hows the post de-peer latency?
    >>> Are they still claiming that national traffic is only charged at 1/10
    >>> of international?
    >>> could you tracert to a few site known to be hosted in nz for me(mine
    >>> is for a start)?

    >
    >> I looked last week and just now it was/is still split,

    >
    > ok then.
    >
    >> ".....
    >> Billing Period International National Equivalent
    >>
    >> All Billing Periods...
    >> 2004-12-07 to 2005-01-06 2123.87 1832.78 2307.15
    >> 2005-01-07 to 2005-02-06 952.46 97.77 962.24
    >> 2005-02-07 to 2005-03-06 513.55 667.07 580.26
    >> ......"

    >
    > I wonder whether or not they just do a check for .nz on the end...
    > that'd be silly, but interesting.
    >
    >> heh, traceroute maybe......I dont do tracert......

    >
    > thanks for that, I wondered what is was looking like, and it doesnt
    > appear as bad as was once thought it would be.
    >

    I think that's because they have only depeered at WIX for now.
    When they depeer at APE as well the, majority of users/ISPs will be
    hit as most ISPs peer at APE and WIX.


    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
    ChrisOD, Mar 5, 2005
    #16
  17. On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 08:50:51 +1300, Axle <> wrote:

    >Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    >> BILL bs.xxxxxxxxxx.corn wrote:
    >>
    >>> I found out some more Info, affects all users from Telstra/Clear
    >>> going to
    >>> Telecom web sites..

    >>
    >>
    >> not just Telecom sites.
    >>
    >>> Telscum playing silly games again, no connection agreement.

    >>
    >>
    >> not just Telecom, Telstra pulled out too, both are playing silly buggers
    >> thinking that they can force everyone else into doing what they want.
    >>

    >
    >Carry on showing us the way with that wireless isp.
    >Its the only alternative to these telco pricks silly games




    Wireless is Not The Way Latency to far to high..
    BILL bs.xxxxxxxxxx.corn, Mar 6, 2005
    #17
  18. BILL bs.xxxxxxxxxx.corn wrote:
    >>Carry on showing us the way with that wireless isp.
    >>Its the only alternative to these telco pricks silly games


    > Wireless is Not The Way Latency to far to high..


    yeah, I guess 40-60ms is way too high to another ISPs gaming servers.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Mar 6, 2005
    #18
  19. Kazonme

    Bruce Hoult Guest

    In article <>,
    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <> wrote:

    > BILL bs.xxxxxxxxxx.corn wrote:
    > >>Carry on showing us the way with that wireless isp.
    > >>Its the only alternative to these telco pricks silly games

    >
    > > Wireless is Not The Way Latency to far to high..

    >
    > yeah, I guess 40-60ms is way too high to another ISPs gaming servers.


    I'm on paradise cable in Wellington. I get 18 - 20 mS pings to another
    paradise cable customer in Christchurch.

    --
    Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
    Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------
    Bruce Hoult, Mar 7, 2005
    #19
  20. Bruce Hoult wrote:
    >>>>Carry on showing us the way with that wireless isp.
    >>>>Its the only alternative to these telco pricks silly games


    >>>Wireless is Not The Way Latency to far to high..

    >>yeah, I guess 40-60ms is way too high to another ISPs gaming servers.


    > I'm on paradise cable in Wellington. I get 18 - 20 mS pings to another
    > paradise cable customer in Christchurch.


    Im on wireless in dunedin, to another user of Synaptic I get 4ms, to
    dave.net.nz I get 4ms, to Synaptics BF1942 server I get 6ms.

    If I go to their direct upstream I get 10ms to their mail server.

    It is only when I go to a non-APE ISP that it gets higher.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Mar 7, 2005
    #20
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