Anyone been trained through National Employment Services?

Discussion in 'Microsoft Certification' started by =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=, Oct 28, 2004.

  1. They have an apprentiship program that includes a $15K, 3 week cram course
    for the MCSE back in Atlanta or Birmingham, depending on the traing track I
    choose. Their line is that after 9 months I start paying back their costs at
    $150/month, which works out to 8 years plus to pay it off. They claim they
    have connections with corporations in the western Washington area where I
    would be placed after completing their program.

    Having been unemployed as a programmer for the last 2.4 years, I'd like to
    get feedback from anyone who has been through their apprentiship program
    before quitting my low paying, but stable PC technician job to persue what I
    consider at this point to be a high-stakes gamble.
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=, Oct 28, 2004
    #1
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    kpg Guest

    No way.
    kpg, Oct 28, 2004
    #2
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  3. What's been your experience with these folks or these types of programs?

    All my past certs have been obtained through buying the books and
    Transcenders to prepare for each cert, studying like all getout over 1 to 9
    months and then passing the exams on the first try... works for me, but
    unfortunately hasn't come with any corporate apprentiship programs when I
    finnished. I suspect the cram course would prep me for the exam and that's
    about it, so I find it hard to understand how that would be of much value to
    an employer in an apprentiship program.

    Update: Just got off the phone with them and they added that they have a
    Distance Learning program available since they realize people would preferr
    to retain their jobs while training rather than quit outright in order to
    fly out and attend the 3 week course.

    "kpg" wrote:

    > No way.
    >
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=, Oct 28, 2004
    #3
  4. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    kpg Guest

    > What's been your experience with these folks or these types of programs?

    No experience - just this gut wrenching pain when I think about
    $150 per month for 8 years! - How are you gonna pay for that
    on Help Desk pay????
    kpg, Oct 28, 2004
    #4
  5. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    Ken Briscoe Guest

    "kpg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > What's been your experience with these folks or these types of programs?

    >
    > No experience - just this gut wrenching pain when I think about
    > $150 per month for 8 years! - How are you gonna pay for that
    > on Help Desk pay????
    >


    My student loans are more than that, and I'll be paying them for more than 8
    years.

    --

    KB - MCNGP "silent thug" #26

    first initial last name AT gmail DOT com
    Ken Briscoe, Oct 28, 2004
    #5
  6. I didn't mention it in the earlier post but they're saying I'd be getting
    paid $25/hr in the Apprentiship program. I can live with that tradeoff, but
    I'm not about to pump $15 grand worth of debt into this if there isn't
    something tangible like they're claiming they can provide. My problem is
    that I need to verify their claims. Thus the posts in this newsgroup... I
    need independant confirmation from someone who has dealt with this kind of
    program. Who they went through... the quality of the training... whether
    there's a requirement to stay with the employer and if so, for how long...
    the quality of both their employer and the position they held as an
    apprentice, even how long the apprenticeship lasts, since I wouldn't want to
    be dumped and then have to start paying the $150/month.

    "kpg" wrote:

    > > What's been your experience with these folks or these types of programs?

    >
    > No experience - just this gut wrenching pain when I think about
    > $150 per month for 8 years! - How are you gonna pay for that
    > on Help Desk pay????
    >
    >
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=, Oct 28, 2004
    #6
  7. You're gonna learn a LOT more and spend the money more wisely if you will
    just buy a couple of computers and network them. Set one up with W2K3 server
    and another with XP PRO. (WAAAAAY less than $15K!!!) and then buy the books
    and get to work. I even set up my XP Pro box with removable hard drives so I
    could slam in a second server when I had to study replication, etc. By then
    I also had a third machine that could still be a workstation. I basically
    haven't read anything not windows related in the last eight years while
    studying for certs. It has paid off though. For 6 yrs I climbed the ladder
    from bench tech through onsite service for printers and computers, to design,
    configure, install, and implement networks for our customers. I'm MIS for a
    local Non-Profit Hospice agency. One network,...one domain...5 servers, 150
    clients. I probably didn't spend $3,000 total for equipment and books(bought
    all my own) and the company paid for the exam fees.

    "Cautious for a reason" wrote:

    > They have an apprentiship program that includes a $15K, 3 week cram course
    > for the MCSE back in Atlanta or Birmingham, depending on the traing track I
    > choose. Their line is that after 9 months I start paying back their costs at
    > $150/month, which works out to 8 years plus to pay it off. They claim they
    > have connections with corporations in the western Washington area where I
    > would be placed after completing their program.
    >
    > Having been unemployed as a programmer for the last 2.4 years, I'd like to
    > get feedback from anyone who has been through their apprentiship program
    > before quitting my low paying, but stable PC technician job to persue what I
    > consider at this point to be a high-stakes gamble.
    =?Utf-8?B?Um9uYXRob3NwaWNl?=, Oct 28, 2004
    #7
  8. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    kpg Guest

    > My student loans are more than that, and I'll be paying them for more than
    > 8
    > years.


    ditto - for my wife's college.

    But go into debt for a 3 week MCSE bootcamp?????

    kp "I'm opening up a school" g
    kpg, Oct 28, 2004
    #8
  9. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    Doom Guest

    "Cautious for a reason" <> wrote
    in message news:...
    >I didn't mention it in the earlier post but they're saying I'd be getting
    > paid $25/hr in the Apprentiship program. I can live with that tradeoff,
    > but
    > I'm not about to pump $15 grand worth of debt into this if there isn't
    > something tangible like they're claiming they can provide. My problem is
    > that I need to verify their claims.


    It sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into believing their claims.
    Ask them for some former students names and numbers, call them, and go from
    there. Other than that, you're a grown up (I'm assuming) do what you want.
    Doom, Oct 28, 2004
    #9
  10. Yeah, that's what I did trying to break back into the programming arena. Box
    1: Visual Studio.NET with the web server running my demo apps. Box 2: SQL
    Server containing my back-end database.

    Hasn't helped a lick.
    I ended up taking a PC tech job, changing careers within the IT industry
    because the programming side is being obliterated by outsourcing.




    "Ronathospice" wrote:

    > You're gonna learn a LOT more and spend the money more wisely if you will
    > just buy a couple of computers and network them. Set one up with W2K3 server
    > and another with XP PRO. (WAAAAAY less than $15K!!!) and then buy the books
    > and get to work. I even set up my XP Pro box with removable hard drives so I
    > could slam in a second server when I had to study replication, etc. By then
    > I also had a third machine that could still be a workstation. I basically
    > haven't read anything not windows related in the last eight years while
    > studying for certs. It has paid off though. For 6 yrs I climbed the ladder
    > from bench tech through onsite service for printers and computers, to design,
    > configure, install, and implement networks for our customers. I'm MIS for a
    > local Non-Profit Hospice agency. One network,...one domain...5 servers, 150
    > clients. I probably didn't spend $3,000 total for equipment and books(bought
    > all my own) and the company paid for the exam fees.
    >
    > "Cautious for a reason" wrote:
    >
    > > They have an apprentiship program that includes a $15K, 3 week cram course
    > > for the MCSE back in Atlanta or Birmingham, depending on the traing track I
    > > choose. Their line is that after 9 months I start paying back their costs at
    > > $150/month, which works out to 8 years plus to pay it off. They claim they
    > > have connections with corporations in the western Washington area where I
    > > would be placed after completing their program.
    > >
    > > Having been unemployed as a programmer for the last 2.4 years, I'd like to
    > > get feedback from anyone who has been through their apprentiship program
    > > before quitting my low paying, but stable PC technician job to persue what I
    > > consider at this point to be a high-stakes gamble.
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=, Oct 28, 2004
    #10
  11. That was the topic of my latest conversation.
    They're gonna call back tomorrow, and if they can't produce the references
    of employers AND people I can talk to who have already been through the
    program, then the conversation's over.
    I'm not about to commit to that kind of debt based on someone's promise of
    "potentials" over the phone. It's going to require me sitting down over
    lunch with the references first.

    "Doom" wrote:

    >
    > "Cautious for a reason" <> wrote
    > in message news:...
    > >I didn't mention it in the earlier post but they're saying I'd be getting
    > > paid $25/hr in the Apprentiship program. I can live with that tradeoff,
    > > but
    > > I'm not about to pump $15 grand worth of debt into this if there isn't
    > > something tangible like they're claiming they can provide. My problem is
    > > that I need to verify their claims.

    >
    > It sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into believing their claims.
    > Ask them for some former students names and numbers, call them, and go from
    > there. Other than that, you're a grown up (I'm assuming) do what you want.
    >
    >
    >
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=, Oct 28, 2004
    #11
  12. Cautious for a reason wrote:
    > That was the topic of my latest conversation.
    > They're gonna call back tomorrow, and if they can't produce the
    > references of employers AND people I can talk to who have already
    > been through the program, then the conversation's over.
    > I'm not about to commit to that kind of debt based on someone's
    > promise of "potentials" over the phone. It's going to require me
    > sitting down over lunch with the references first.


    I'd be willing to bet that you'll never hear from them again...

    Sales Rep: "Damn... he's on to us... give me another lead!"

    --
    Fris "Sales Prevention Dept." bee®, MCNGP #13

    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!
    http://www.mcngp.com

    Certaholics
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
    =?Utf-8?Q?Frisbee=C2=AE?=, Oct 28, 2004
    #12
  13. "Frisbee®" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Cautious for a reason wrote:
    > > That was the topic of my latest conversation.
    > > They're gonna call back tomorrow, and if they can't produce the
    > > references of employers AND people I can talk to who have already
    > > been through the program, then the conversation's over.
    > > I'm not about to commit to that kind of debt based on someone's
    > > promise of "potentials" over the phone. It's going to require me
    > > sitting down over lunch with the references first.

    >
    > I'd be willing to bet that you'll never hear from them again...
    >
    > Sales Rep: "Damn... he's on to us... give me another lead!"
    >



    Did you check the Better Business Bureau at all? They may have some
    information on them. Plus, judging by the other posts in this group,
    anything that promises you the MCSE in three weeks isn't worth your time.
    Because in 3 months, you probably won't remember half of what you learned in
    those 3 weeks.
    Patrick.
    --
    Smile... Someone out there cares deeply for you...
    Patrick Dickey, Oct 29, 2004
    #13
  14. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    Adam Leinss Guest

    =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?= <Cautious for a
    > wrote in
    news::

    > They have an apprentiship program that includes a $15K, 3 week
    > cram course for the MCSE back in Atlanta or Birmingham, depending
    > on the traing track I choose. Their line is that after 9 months I
    > start paying back their costs at $150/month, which works out to 8
    > years plus to pay it off. They claim they have connections with
    > corporations in the western Washington area where I would be
    > placed after completing their program.


    Seeing how you can pass the exams and take classes for getting a MCSE
    as low as $2500 total, I would say this is not kosher! It also took me
    over a year to get my MCSE. I would pass this "deal" myself.

    Adam
    Adam Leinss, Oct 29, 2004
    #14
  15. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    Neil Guest

    incase you missed it =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?= <Cautious
    for a > said in
    news::

    > They have an apprentiship program that includes a $15K, 3 week cram
    > course for the MCSE back in Atlanta or Birmingham, depending on the
    > traing track I choose. Their line is that after 9 months I start
    > paying back their costs at $150/month, which works out to 8 years plus
    > to pay it off. They claim they have connections with corporations in
    > the western Washington area where I would be placed after completing
    > their program.
    >
    > Having been unemployed as a programmer for the last 2.4 years, I'd
    > like to get feedback from anyone who has been through their
    > apprentiship program before quitting my low paying, but stable PC
    > technician job to persue what I consider at this point to be a
    > high-stakes gamble.


    do you have a momma? didn't she tell you that "if it sounds too good to
    be true..."?

    --
    Neil MCNGP #30
    the "curious" hair on the soap of society
    Neil, Oct 29, 2004
    #15
  16. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    TechGeekPro Guest

    On Oct 28, 2004 at 2:35pm "Cautious for a reason" blathered:

    > They have an apprentiship program that includes a $15K, 3 week cram
    > course for the MCSE back in Atlanta or Birmingham, depending on the
    > traing track I choose. Their line is that after 9 months I start paying
    > back their costs at $150/month, which works out to 8 years plus to pay
    > it off. They claim they have connections with corporations in the
    > western Washington area where I would be placed after completing their
    > program.
    >
    > Having been unemployed as a programmer for the last 2.4 years, I'd like
    > to get feedback from anyone who has been through their apprentiship
    > program before quitting my low paying, but stable PC technician job to
    > persue what I consider at this point to be a high-stakes gamble.


    Fuggin' pyramid scheme.

    --
    TechGeekPro, MCNGP #36
    MCNGP.com - We're here to help!
    I'm TechGeekPro, and I approved this post.
    TechGeekPro, Oct 29, 2004
    #16
  17. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    TechGeekPro <%username%@gmail.com> wrote in news:Xns959110DF9FCB6tgp@
    127.0.0.1:

    > On Oct 28, 2004 at 2:35pm "Cautious for a reason" blathered:
    >
    >> They have an apprentiship program that includes a $15K, 3 week cram
    >> course for the MCSE back in Atlanta or Birmingham, depending on the
    >> traing track I choose. Their line is that after 9 months I start

    paying
    >> back their costs at $150/month, which works out to 8 years plus to pay
    >> it off. They claim they have connections with corporations in the
    >> western Washington area where I would be placed after completing their
    >> program.
    >>
    >> Having been unemployed as a programmer for the last 2.4 years, I'd

    like
    >> to get feedback from anyone who has been through their apprentiship
    >> program before quitting my low paying, but stable PC technician job to
    >> persue what I consider at this point to be a high-stakes gamble.

    >
    > Fuggin' pyramid scheme.
    >


    REALLY! no way! you kiddin'.

    --
    Rowdy Yates, MCNGP #39
    http://www.mcngp.com/
    "Shhhh... Do you smell that? I think is't Albanian Goat Smegma!"
    Rowdy Yates, Oct 29, 2004
    #17
  18. No one said that it would be easy...Nor did I say that you would jump
    directly into a Systems Engineering position. You still gotta "pay your
    dues" and climb up the ladder just like everyone else. I don't give a dasm
    whether we're talking IT or Mechanical Engineering. Too many people
    think(read fresh out of college students) that just because they get the
    piece of paper, they're automatically going to jump in to a $50K+ per year
    job. Bullfeathers! Stay with your technician job and start up the ladder.
    It took me 6 YEARS to get to the systems engineer position. And a full 3
    YEARS AFTER I MCSE certified the first time. Then another 3 years of
    engineering before the MIS job came to me.

    "Cautious for a reason" wrote:

    > Yeah, that's what I did trying to break back into the programming arena. Box
    > 1: Visual Studio.NET with the web server running my demo apps. Box 2: SQL
    > Server containing my back-end database.
    >
    > Hasn't helped a lick.
    > I ended up taking a PC tech job, changing careers within the IT industry
    > because the programming side is being obliterated by outsourcing.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Ronathospice" wrote:
    >
    > > You're gonna learn a LOT more and spend the money more wisely if you will
    > > just buy a couple of computers and network them. Set one up with W2K3 server
    > > and another with XP PRO. (WAAAAAY less than $15K!!!) and then buy the books
    > > and get to work. I even set up my XP Pro box with removable hard drives so I
    > > could slam in a second server when I had to study replication, etc. By then
    > > I also had a third machine that could still be a workstation. I basically
    > > haven't read anything not windows related in the last eight years while
    > > studying for certs. It has paid off though. For 6 yrs I climbed the ladder
    > > from bench tech through onsite service for printers and computers, to design,
    > > configure, install, and implement networks for our customers. I'm MIS for a
    > > local Non-Profit Hospice agency. One network,...one domain...5 servers, 150
    > > clients. I probably didn't spend $3,000 total for equipment and books(bought
    > > all my own) and the company paid for the exam fees.
    > >
    > > "Cautious for a reason" wrote:
    > >
    > > > They have an apprentiship program that includes a $15K, 3 week cram course
    > > > for the MCSE back in Atlanta or Birmingham, depending on the traing track I
    > > > choose. Their line is that after 9 months I start paying back their costs at
    > > > $150/month, which works out to 8 years plus to pay it off. They claim they
    > > > have connections with corporations in the western Washington area where I
    > > > would be placed after completing their program.
    > > >
    > > > Having been unemployed as a programmer for the last 2.4 years, I'd like to
    > > > get feedback from anyone who has been through their apprentiship program
    > > > before quitting my low paying, but stable PC technician job to persue what I
    > > > consider at this point to be a high-stakes gamble.
    =?Utf-8?B?Um9uYXRob3NwaWNl?=, Oct 29, 2004
    #18
  19. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    TechGeekPro Guest

    On Oct 29, 2004 at 7:16am "Rowdy Yates" blathered:

    > REALLY! no way! you kiddin'.


    Fuggin' A.

    --
    TechGeekPro, MCNGP #36
    MCNGP.com - We're here to help!
    I'm TechGeekPro, and I approved this post.
    TechGeekPro, Oct 29, 2004
    #19
  20. To everyone involved in this intervention yesterday:
    Group hug, or give yourselves a pat on the back... whatever's appropriate.
    I'm now convinced it's best to avoid the boot camp, stand pat with my tech
    job and take the proverbial slow boat to China.

    I've been keeping quite on the subject at work, just listening and observing
    the conversations. To confirm everyone's opinion here, after I after I got
    to work yesterday, one of my fellow techs made the comment to another tech
    (they're both working towards their 2003 MCSE) confirming that the exam prep
    boot camps are only really any good for those who've been working with the
    technology for 3-6 months minimum, and are already fairly familiar with the
    technologies before the instructor hits them with what would be information
    overload for a newbie like me.

    To seal the deal, later, there was a new revelation (mind you, I've been
    there less than a month). These same 2 tech were ribbing our manager, "If
    you've got training funds available why don't you spend some of it on
    yourself (since you're right in the middle of things also)" and his reply was
    to look the tech in the eye, smile as he shook his head and quip ""No... I
    see your point, but no".

    He went on to say that spending his limited training funds on the techs who
    want Win2K3MCSE/CCNP certification training would make it unnecessary to get
    training for himself. By making sure we're covered, he's covered.

    At that point I jumped in and said I was interested. He cocked his head to
    one side, smiled, raised his eyebrows, and quiped again,"Ok".

    So! National Employment Services is history. I'm expecting to have a long
    term relationship with my new employer, and the new question on the table is
    this:

    CCNA/CCNP vs 2003 MCSE? What are the pros and cons? I realize we're in the
    cradle of Microsoft's arms here, but it would be interesting to know.

    We're working with at least one Linux-flavored PC, Cisco switches, and with
    multiple Win 2000 servers (possibly 2003 by now, I'm not sure yet). We just
    upgraded a small boat load of Cisco switches, so they can probably spare one
    or two should I need them for CCNA/CCNP studies should I end up going that
    route.
    I'll be discussing with my boss and my co-workers which certification is of
    more value to this organization, but looking beyond my employer's 4 walls at
    the larger, industry-wide picture, what are you seeing? Does it really make
    that much of a difference in the long run as long as I pick one and go whole
    hog with it?

    What are your thoughts?




    "Ronathospice" wrote:

    > No one said that it would be easy...Nor did I say that you would jump
    > directly into a Systems Engineering position. You still gotta "pay your
    > dues" and climb up the ladder just like everyone else. I don't give a dasm
    > whether we're talking IT or Mechanical Engineering. Too many people
    > think(read fresh out of college students) that just because they get the
    > piece of paper, they're automatically going to jump in to a $50K+ per year
    > job. Bullfeathers! Stay with your technician job and start up the ladder.
    > It took me 6 YEARS to get to the systems engineer position. And a full 3
    > YEARS AFTER I MCSE certified the first time. Then another 3 years of
    > engineering before the MIS job came to me.
    >
    > "Cautious for a reason" wrote:
    >
    > > Yeah, that's what I did trying to break back into the programming arena. Box
    > > 1: Visual Studio.NET with the web server running my demo apps. Box 2: SQL
    > > Server containing my back-end database.
    > >
    > > Hasn't helped a lick.
    > > I ended up taking a PC tech job, changing careers within the IT industry
    > > because the programming side is being obliterated by outsourcing.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Ronathospice" wrote:
    > >
    > > > You're gonna learn a LOT more and spend the money more wisely if you will
    > > > just buy a couple of computers and network them. Set one up with W2K3 server
    > > > and another with XP PRO. (WAAAAAY less than $15K!!!) and then buy the books
    > > > and get to work. I even set up my XP Pro box with removable hard drives so I
    > > > could slam in a second server when I had to study replication, etc. By then
    > > > I also had a third machine that could still be a workstation. I basically
    > > > haven't read anything not windows related in the last eight years while
    > > > studying for certs. It has paid off though. For 6 yrs I climbed the ladder
    > > > from bench tech through onsite service for printers and computers, to design,
    > > > configure, install, and implement networks for our customers. I'm MIS for a
    > > > local Non-Profit Hospice agency. One network,...one domain...5 servers, 150
    > > > clients. I probably didn't spend $3,000 total for equipment and books(bought
    > > > all my own) and the company paid for the exam fees.
    > > >
    > > > "Cautious for a reason" wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > They have an apprentiship program that includes a $15K, 3 week cram course
    > > > > for the MCSE back in Atlanta or Birmingham, depending on the traing track I
    > > > > choose. Their line is that after 9 months I start paying back their costs at
    > > > > $150/month, which works out to 8 years plus to pay it off. They claim they
    > > > > have connections with corporations in the western Washington area where I
    > > > > would be placed after completing their program.
    > > > >
    > > > > Having been unemployed as a programmer for the last 2.4 years, I'd like to
    > > > > get feedback from anyone who has been through their apprentiship program
    > > > > before quitting my low paying, but stable PC technician job to persue what I
    > > > > consider at this point to be a high-stakes gamble.
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=, Oct 29, 2004
    #20
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?Q2F1dGlvdXMgZm9yIGEgcmVhc29u?=

    Anyone been trained through National Employment Services?

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