Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ? Thoughts On Gimp ?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Robert11, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. Robert11

    Robert11 Guest

    Hello:

    New at this.

    Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    alternatives
    to Photoshop Elements ?

    Heard about Gimp.
    Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    Opinions on ?

    Much thanks,
    Bob
    Robert11, Mar 6, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Robert11

    Pete Fenelon Guest

    Robert11 <> wrote:
    > Hello:
    >
    > New at this.
    >
    > Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    > alternatives
    > to Photoshop Elements ?
    >
    > Heard about Gimp.
    > Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    > Opinions on ?


    Gimp is very powerful (probably more powerful than Elements, in
    fact). It's extremely complex to use, in my opinion, and the learning
    curve is near-vertical. It feels more like a loose collection of tools
    and libraries held together by a scripting language than a coherent
    application.

    You can get astonishing results from it, but it is a frustrating and
    fiddly program to use. If you value your time at all highly, I'd
    recommend the (modest) cost of Elements. There's also a lot of good
    Elements books out there to help you achieve what you want....

    pete
    --
    "Send lawyers, guns and money...."
    Pete Fenelon, Mar 6, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:04:46 +0000, Pete Fenelon wrote:
    > Robert11 <> wrote:
    >> Hello:
    >>
    >> New at this.
    >>
    >> Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    >> alternatives
    >> to Photoshop Elements ?
    >>
    >> Heard about Gimp.
    >> Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    >> Opinions on ?

    >
    > Gimp is very powerful (probably more powerful than Elements, in
    > fact). It's extremely complex to use, in my opinion, and the learning
    > curve is near-vertical. It feels more like a loose collection of tools
    > and libraries held together by a scripting language than a coherent
    > application.
    >
    > You can get astonishing results from it, but it is a frustrating and
    > fiddly program to use. If you value your time at all highly, I'd
    > recommend the (modest) cost of Elements. There's also a lot of good
    > Elements books out there to help you achieve what you want....


    I agree with the gimp comments. I'm using it (well, wrestling with
    it) on my linux box here.

    Over on my First Wife's winders box, she uses Picture Window. I have,
    on occasion, used it on her machine (after which I wash my hands
    thoroughhly). and it seems Very Intuitive.
    Visit:
    http://www.dl-c.com/pwintro.html

    It is, IINM, less expensive that P$-E.

    Jonesy
    --
    | Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
    | Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __
    | 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK
    Allodoxaphobia, Mar 6, 2005
    #3
  4. Robert11

    Guest

    Re: Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ? Thoughts On Gimp ?

    Look at PhotoFiltre.......an excellent, easy to learn and free program.
    Download the english version and the plugins,
    DonB
    , Mar 6, 2005
    #4
  5. Robert11

    RSD99 Guest

    IMHO: "The GIMP' as essentially a 'rolling Beta.' If you are comfortable
    working with that type of program, and have a lot of time and energy to
    traverse the steep learning curve, it is actually capable of doing some
    very good work.

    I have to agree totally with Pete Fenelon's comment that "... It's
    extremely complex to use, in my opinion, and the learning curve is
    near-vertical. It feels more like a loose collection of tools and libraries
    held together by a scripting language than a coherent application. ..."
    Additionally, there is NO capability to work with 16-bit files, and many
    other things that users of the full version of PhotoShop or Picture Window
    Pro have available. Another limitation is that 'The GIMP' cannot use
    PhotoShop plugins.

    Additionally, most of the comments / postings I've seen in

    comp.graphics.apps.gimp

    have been MUCH more orientated toward 'programmers' rather than graphics
    users. A typical posting would be something like "... how do I compile the
    program for Mandrake (a flavor of Linux) version 47.3.9.a Release 2.3 ...
    I'm having the following problem(s). Followed by 15 kB of error log
    printouts. Or "I just re-wrote the 'Unsharp Mask' plugin ...

    Don't ask a question over there unless you are prepared to re-write parts
    of the program and re-compile it yourself. I've also gotten the feeling
    that the committed users of "The GIMP" are using it more because

    (1) It's NOT PhotoShop, and they're rebelling against the 'evil
    empire' (Adobe), or

    (2) They are actually (closet) programmers, and are simply astounded
    that the program actually works as well as it does, or

    (3) They are Linux users, and have no other option(s), or

    (4) They are just so proud of what the "Open Source" "community" has
    produced. (I am definitely *not* heaping ridicule here, they've done a fine
    job, considering that there is no 'central project management.')

    Regarding Allodoxaphobia's comment about Picture Window:
    Picture Window, especially the 'Pro' version, is an outstanding program. It
    was designed by a photographer for editing photographic images, and does
    several things quite differently than PhotoShop. For some tasks (such as
    color correction and 16-bit files, to name just two of many) it is
    definitely superior to PhotoShop, or PhotoShop Elements. Now ... if it just
    had 'Layers' and could use PhotoShop plugins ...

    See
    www.dl-c/Temp

    Norman Koran has several high quality tutorials for Picture Window ... see
    http://normankoren.com/#Tutorials

    I have all three resident on this computer, and find that I routinely use
    PhotoShop and Picture Window Pro. The GIMP gets started occasionally, but I
    haven't really done any major work in it. Still, 'The GIMP' must be put
    into the category of "shows a lot of potential" ...




    "Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:04:46 +0000, Pete Fenelon wrote:
    > > Robert11 <> wrote:
    > >> Hello:
    > >>
    > >> New at this.
    > >>
    > >> Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    > >> alternatives
    > >> to Photoshop Elements ?
    > >>
    > >> Heard about Gimp.
    > >> Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    > >> Opinions on ?

    > >
    > > Gimp is very powerful (probably more powerful than Elements, in
    > > fact). It's extremely complex to use, in my opinion, and the learning
    > > curve is near-vertical. It feels more like a loose collection of tools
    > > and libraries held together by a scripting language than a coherent
    > > application.
    > >
    > > You can get astonishing results from it, but it is a frustrating and
    > > fiddly program to use. If you value your time at all highly, I'd
    > > recommend the (modest) cost of Elements. There's also a lot of good
    > > Elements books out there to help you achieve what you want....

    >
    > I agree with the gimp comments. I'm using it (well, wrestling with
    > it) on my linux box here.
    >
    > Over on my First Wife's winders box, she uses Picture Window. I have,
    > on occasion, used it on her machine (after which I wash my hands
    > thoroughhly). and it seems Very Intuitive.
    > Visit:
    > http://www.dl-c.com/pwintro.html
    >
    > It is, IINM, less expensive that P$-E.
    >
    > Jonesy
    > --
    > | Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
    > | Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __
    > | 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK
    RSD99, Mar 6, 2005
    #5
  6. Robert11

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Re: Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ?Thoughts On Gimp ?

    Robert11 wrote:
    > Hello:
    >
    > New at this.
    >
    > Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    > alternatives
    > to Photoshop Elements ?
    >
    > Heard about Gimp.
    > Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    > Opinions on ?
    >
    > Much thanks,
    > Bob
    >
    >

    I have looked at GIMP. It has the capabilities, but the interface
    really turned me off. If you have financial constraints that prohibit
    buying PSE3 (you can get it for under $50), then it might be worth
    learning GIMP. Just be prepared for a steep learning curve, and lots of
    work.


    --
    Ron Hunter
    Ron Hunter, Mar 6, 2005
    #6
  7. Robert11

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Re: Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ?Thoughts On Gimp ?

    Pete Fenelon wrote:
    > Robert11 <> wrote:
    >
    >>Hello:
    >>
    >>New at this.
    >>
    >>Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    >>alternatives
    >>to Photoshop Elements ?
    >>
    >>Heard about Gimp.
    >>Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    >>Opinions on ?

    >
    >
    > Gimp is very powerful (probably more powerful than Elements, in
    > fact). It's extremely complex to use, in my opinion, and the learning
    > curve is near-vertical. It feels more like a loose collection of tools
    > and libraries held together by a scripting language than a coherent
    > application.
    >
    > You can get astonishing results from it, but it is a frustrating and
    > fiddly program to use. If you value your time at all highly, I'd
    > recommend the (modest) cost of Elements. There's also a lot of good
    > Elements books out there to help you achieve what you want....
    >
    > pete


    And helpful people (albeit mostly Mac users) in the Adobe Forums at
    www.adobe.com.


    --
    Ron Hunter
    Ron Hunter, Mar 6, 2005
    #7
  8. Robert11

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Robert11 <> wrote:

    > Hello:
    >
    > New at this.
    >
    > Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    > alternatives
    > to Photoshop Elements ?
    >
    > Heard about Gimp.
    > Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    > Opinions on ?


    GIMP is good software. The main problem is that it takes a lot of
    getting used to. The other problems are minimal color management support
    and only 8-bits-per-channel graphic space.

    But if you just want to replace Elements, it's spiff. The quick mask has
    saved my bacon a few times.

    There's also ImageMagick, which works from the command line. Very
    powerful and worth checking out if you're comfortable with typing for
    graphics. :)
    Paul Mitchum, Mar 6, 2005
    #8
  9. Robert11

    ECM Guest

    Re: Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ? Thoughts On Gimp ?

    I'll also chime in on GIMP's side. It IS more difficult to learn, the
    documentation is poor, but especially the new GIMP 2.2 is stable, and
    does the job well; it's recently undergone a bit of a GUI change. I use
    it on Windows, it's available pre-compiled. I've heard that CinePaint
    (an offshoot of GIMP 1) is able to do 16-bit color, but there's no
    Windows runtimes (so it's Linix only).

    I use GIMP as my main "Bigtime editing" program now (eg for masking,
    curves, etc.); I use Irfanview for smaller edits (for example just
    adjusting the saturation, contrast, or resizing, or converting from RAW
    to TIFF). I'm on a strict budget, so Photoshop is out of the question;
    and Elements is pretty expensive for me, too. I've used Photoshop in
    the past (PS 7.0) so I was a bit conversant in editing techniques; it
    wasn't really that hard to switch to GIMP. The controls are a lot
    different, but the things you can expect the program to do are the
    same.

    I think that if you've got the $, the commercial programs are better at
    helping you through things and of course you can't underestimate the
    value of the support you'll get, but if you know what you want to do
    and how to do it, and can't afford $500+ for PS, GIMP is a viable
    option.

    ECM
    ECM, Mar 6, 2005
    #9
  10. For a beginner, I think that Paint Shop Pro is a better alternative.
    Built-in it has:

    - red-eye reduction
    - perspective correction
    - pincushion/barrel correction
    - digital camera noise reduction
    - chromatic aberration reduction

    Get a trial version from:
    http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel3/Downloads/Trials

    It's not an expensive program, but not free.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Mar 6, 2005
    #10
  11. Robert11

    John Guest

    I've been using Serif PhotoPlus 6 for a while now. Very much like
    photoshop with layering etc and it's free free free. Download it and
    give it a try. If you don't like it, what did it cost you?

    http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/PhotoPlus/default.asp


    John




    On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:47:23 -0500, "Robert11" <>
    wrote:

    >Hello:
    >
    >New at this.
    >
    >Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    >alternatives
    >to Photoshop Elements ?
    >
    >Heard about Gimp.
    >Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    >Opinions on ?
    >
    >Much thanks,
    >Bob
    >
    John, Mar 6, 2005
    #11
  12. Robert11

    RSD99 Guest

    PSP is a good program, but so is the free French program "Photo Filtre"
    someone else mentioned.

    http://www.photofiltre.com/


    "David J Taylor" <-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk>
    wrote in message news:1WJWd.29854$...
    > For a beginner, I think that Paint Shop Pro is a better alternative.
    > Built-in it has:
    >
    > - red-eye reduction
    > - perspective correction
    > - pincushion/barrel correction
    > - digital camera noise reduction
    > - chromatic aberration reduction
    >
    > Get a trial version from:
    > http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel3/Downloads/Trials
    >
    > It's not an expensive program, but not free.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > David
    >
    >
    >
    >
    RSD99, Mar 6, 2005
    #12
  13. Robert11

    Malevil Guest

    The best program out there is Picasa2 ... it's phenomenal - and free. Even
    Photoshop users are moving towards it for their everyday digital photography
    needs. Elements is still needed for manual retouching and advanced special
    effects, tho.

    Will

    "RSD99" <> wrote in message
    news:_QIWd.41899$uc.10591@trnddc01...
    > IMHO: "The GIMP' as essentially a 'rolling Beta.' If you are comfortable
    > working with that type of program, and have a lot of time and energy to
    > traverse the steep learning curve, it is actually capable of doing some
    > very good work.
    >
    > I have to agree totally with Pete Fenelon's comment that "... It's
    > extremely complex to use, in my opinion, and the learning curve is
    > near-vertical. It feels more like a loose collection of tools and

    libraries
    > held together by a scripting language than a coherent application. ..."
    > Additionally, there is NO capability to work with 16-bit files, and many
    > other things that users of the full version of PhotoShop or Picture Window
    > Pro have available. Another limitation is that 'The GIMP' cannot use
    > PhotoShop plugins.
    >
    > Additionally, most of the comments / postings I've seen in
    >
    > comp.graphics.apps.gimp
    >
    > have been MUCH more orientated toward 'programmers' rather than graphics
    > users. A typical posting would be something like "... how do I compile the
    > program for Mandrake (a flavor of Linux) version 47.3.9.a Release 2.3 ...
    > I'm having the following problem(s). Followed by 15 kB of error log
    > printouts. Or "I just re-wrote the 'Unsharp Mask' plugin ...
    >
    > Don't ask a question over there unless you are prepared to re-write parts
    > of the program and re-compile it yourself. I've also gotten the feeling
    > that the committed users of "The GIMP" are using it more because
    >
    > (1) It's NOT PhotoShop, and they're rebelling against the 'evil
    > empire' (Adobe), or
    >
    > (2) They are actually (closet) programmers, and are simply astounded
    > that the program actually works as well as it does, or
    >
    > (3) They are Linux users, and have no other option(s), or
    >
    > (4) They are just so proud of what the "Open Source" "community" has
    > produced. (I am definitely *not* heaping ridicule here, they've done a

    fine
    > job, considering that there is no 'central project management.')
    >
    > Regarding Allodoxaphobia's comment about Picture Window:
    > Picture Window, especially the 'Pro' version, is an outstanding program.

    It
    > was designed by a photographer for editing photographic images, and does
    > several things quite differently than PhotoShop. For some tasks (such as
    > color correction and 16-bit files, to name just two of many) it is
    > definitely superior to PhotoShop, or PhotoShop Elements. Now ... if it

    just
    > had 'Layers' and could use PhotoShop plugins ...
    >
    > See
    > www.dl-c/Temp
    >
    > Norman Koran has several high quality tutorials for Picture Window ... see
    > http://normankoren.com/#Tutorials
    >
    > I have all three resident on this computer, and find that I routinely use
    > PhotoShop and Picture Window Pro. The GIMP gets started occasionally, but

    I
    > haven't really done any major work in it. Still, 'The GIMP' must be put
    > into the category of "shows a lot of potential" ...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:04:46 +0000, Pete Fenelon wrote:
    > > > Robert11 <> wrote:
    > > >> Hello:
    > > >>
    > > >> New at this.
    > > >>
    > > >> Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    > > >> alternatives
    > > >> to Photoshop Elements ?
    > > >>
    > > >> Heard about Gimp.
    > > >> Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    > > >> Opinions on ?
    > > >
    > > > Gimp is very powerful (probably more powerful than Elements, in
    > > > fact). It's extremely complex to use, in my opinion, and the learning
    > > > curve is near-vertical. It feels more like a loose collection of tools
    > > > and libraries held together by a scripting language than a coherent
    > > > application.
    > > >
    > > > You can get astonishing results from it, but it is a frustrating and
    > > > fiddly program to use. If you value your time at all highly, I'd
    > > > recommend the (modest) cost of Elements. There's also a lot of good
    > > > Elements books out there to help you achieve what you want....

    > >
    > > I agree with the gimp comments. I'm using it (well, wrestling with
    > > it) on my linux box here.
    > >
    > > Over on my First Wife's winders box, she uses Picture Window. I have,
    > > on occasion, used it on her machine (after which I wash my hands
    > > thoroughhly). and it seems Very Intuitive.
    > > Visit:
    > > http://www.dl-c.com/pwintro.html
    > >
    > > It is, IINM, less expensive that P$-E.
    > >
    > > Jonesy
    > > --
    > > | Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
    > > | Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __
    > > | 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK

    >
    >
    Malevil, Mar 6, 2005
    #13
  14. Robert11

    Kitt Guest

    Re: Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ? Thoughts On Gimp ?

    Everybody seems to be assuming you want the ability to manipulate down
    to pixel level. If you want that, then the alternatives presented are
    good. If on the other hand you're like me and only want the basics
    with a great organization tool, I can't recommend Picasa 2 highly
    enough. There's almost no learning curve and it's simply fantastic for
    the price. It's free! Just do a search on Picasa 2 and you'll find
    the download site.
    Kitt, Mar 6, 2005
    #14
  15. Re: Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ? Thoughts On Gimp ?

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Everybody seems to be assuming you want the ability to manipulate down
    > to pixel level. If you want that, then the alternatives presented are
    > good. If on the other hand you're like me and only want the basics

    snip///////////////////
    Or just download the freeware pgm Photofiltre
    Valued Customer, Mar 6, 2005
    #15
  16. Robert11

    Guest

    "Robert11" <> wrote:

    >Heard about Gimp.
    >Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    >Opinions on ?


    It is excellent and other than time, it isn't going to cost you
    anything to test it out.

    You will need to download

    gtk+-2.6.2-setup.zip
    gimp-2.2.4-setup.zip
    gimp-help-2-0.7-setup.zip (optional)

    Install programs in order I listed. See www.gimp.org and look for
    link for a precompiled windows binary.

    It could turn out that picasa2 (also free) will do most of what you
    want but I've never considered having too many tools a burden.

    Wes


    --
    Reply to:
    Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
    Lycos address is a spam trap.
    , Mar 7, 2005
    #16
  17. Robert11

    rafe bustin Guest

    On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:47:23 -0500, "Robert11" <>
    wrote:

    >Hello:
    >
    >New at this.
    >
    >Might anyopne please recommed any (hopefully free or inexpensive)
    >alternatives
    >to Photoshop Elements ?
    >
    >Heard about Gimp.
    >Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    >Opinions on ?



    I've heard a few raves about Picture Window Pro,
    and there's a free 30 day trial:

    http://www.dl-c.com

    It costs $90 to buy, so that puts it roughly
    in the same league (pricewise) as Paint Shop Pro
    and Adobe Elements.


    rafe b.
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
    rafe bustin, Mar 7, 2005
    #17
  18. Robert11

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Re: Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ?Thoughts On Gimp ?

    wrote:
    > "Robert11" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Heard about Gimp.
    >>Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    >>Opinions on ?

    >
    >
    > It is excellent and other than time, it isn't going to cost you
    > anything to test it out.
    >
    > You will need to download
    >
    > gtk+-2.6.2-setup.zip
    > gimp-2.2.4-setup.zip
    > gimp-help-2-0.7-setup.zip (optional)
    >
    > Install programs in order I listed. See www.gimp.org and look for
    > link for a precompiled windows binary.
    >
    > It could turn out that picasa2 (also free) will do most of what you
    > want but I've never considered having too many tools a burden.
    >
    > Wes
    >
    >

    Picasa 2 is a photo organizer with very limited editing ability.
    For lite editing, try Freestone Viewer.


    --
    Ron Hunter
    Ron Hunter, Mar 7, 2005
    #18
  19. Robert11

    wald Guest

    Re: Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ? Thoughts On Gimp ?

    "ECM" <> wrote:

    > ... the documentation is poor ...


    Well, I picked up a lot of "Grokking The GIMP":

    http://gimp-savvy.com/BOOK/index.html

    I think it does a very good job of explaining the GIMP, and is
    quite extensive. There is a considerable amount of tutorials
    online:

    http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/
    http://gug.sunsite.dk/

    Note that I'm not a professional graphic artist, so my graphics
    editing needs are quite basic. I can imagine that at one point, a
    switch to PhotoShop could be very much appropriate.

    > but especially the new GIMP
    > 2.2 is stable, and does the job well; it's recently undergone a
    > bit of a GUI change. I use it on Windows, it's available
    > pre-compiled.


    Agreed, the latest versions are very stable (using it on Win2K)
    and IMHO the GUI is not nearly as bad as some people claim it is.
    It think a lot of the "impossible GUI"-statements about GIMP are
    based on older versions (1.2 anyone?).

    > I've heard that CinePaint (an offshoot of GIMP 1)
    > is able to do 16-bit color, but there's no Windows runtimes (so
    > it's Linix only).


    Never used it, but from comments here and there it doesn't seem to
    come even close to GIMP in terms of stability...


    Regards,
    Wald
    wald, Mar 7, 2005
    #19
  20. Robert11

    bob Guest

    Re: Any Good (Possibly Free) Alternatives To Photoshop Elements ?Thoughts On Gimp ?

    wrote:
    > "Robert11" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Heard about Gimp.
    >>Is this a "good" photo-editing program ?
    >>Opinions on ?

    >
    >
    > It is excellent and other than time, it isn't going to cost you
    > anything to test it out.



    The thing that threw me with GIMP is that most things that you would
    find in menus on most programs are accomplished through right-clicking
    on the photo.

    Once you get past that it's not too bad. It has a couple features that
    are implemented better than Photoshop 6, which is my main editor.

    Bob
    bob, Mar 7, 2005
    #20
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