any editing software with noise reduction?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by peter, Oct 31, 2004.

  1. peter

    peter Guest

    Is there any photo editing software with built-in noise reduction similar to
    Neat Image?
    peter, Oct 31, 2004
    #1
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  2. peter wrote:
    > Is there any photo editing software with built-in noise reduction
    > similar to Neat Image?


    JASC's Paint Shop Pro 9 - you can get a free trial download. It works at
    least as well as NeatImage, and some people think it's better - I might
    agree.

    http://www.jasc.com

    <http://www.jasc.com/en/products/paintshoppro/psptrialreg.asp>

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Oct 31, 2004
    #2
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  3. peter

    HRosita Guest

    >"peter wrote:

    >Is there any photo editing software with built-in noise reduction similar to
    >Neat Image?

    The Elements 3.0 Noise filter has a Noise Reduction option. Here is how it is
    described:
    "Reduce Noise. Reduces luminous noise and color noise, such as the noise
    introduced by photographing with insufficient light."
    Rosita
    HRosita, Oct 31, 2004
    #3
  4. peter

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "David J Taylor"

    >JASC's Paint Shop Pro 9 - you can get a free trial download. It works at
    >least as well as NeatImage, and some people think it's better


    Does it work on 16 bit files, like Neat Image? (Does PSP even recognize and
    open 16 bit files yet?).

    Does it still delete the ICC profiles for anything other than sRGB tags?
    Bill Hilton, Oct 31, 2004
    #4
  5. Bill Hilton wrote:
    []
    > Does it work on 16 bit files, like Neat Image? (Does PSP even
    > recognize and open 16 bit files yet?).


    Paint Shop Pro 9 will work with 12-bit etc. RAW camera files, but does not
    support 16-bit editing. There was a justification for this from Kris
    Zaklika on the JASC support forums recently which made interesting
    reading. I don't believe the free version of Neat Image will save 16-bit
    data either.

    > Does it still delete the ICC profiles for anything other than sRGB
    > tags?


    You would need to ask this is one of the JASC support forums.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Oct 31, 2004
    #5
  6. peter

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:24:04 -0000, in rec.photo.digital "David J Taylor"
    <> wrote:

    >peter wrote:
    >> Is there any photo editing software with built-in noise reduction
    >> similar to Neat Image?

    >
    >JASC's Paint Shop Pro 9 - you can get a free trial download. It works at
    >least as well as NeatImage, and some people think it's better - I might
    >agree.


    So far in my trials comparing the two I don't. Now I have much more
    experience using NI.
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
    Ed Ruf, Oct 31, 2004
    #6
  7. peter

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On 31 Oct 2004 16:56:59 GMT, in rec.photo.digital dy
    (Bill Hilton) wrote:
    >Does it work on 16 bit files, like Neat Image? (Does PSP even recognize and
    >open 16 bit files yet?).


    No. Which I found out this weekend is why the NikonView NEF plugin will not
    work in PSP while reading Thom Hogan's D70 ebook. It supposedly renders to
    16 bit . The NEF plugin included with PicureProject renders to 8bit.
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
    Ed Ruf, Oct 31, 2004
    #7
  8. peter

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:03:07 -0000, in rec.photo.digital "David J Taylor"
    <> wrote:

    >Paint Shop Pro 9 will work with 12-bit etc. RAW camera files, but does not
    >support 16-bit editing.


    Only some. Mainly dSLRs. Not my CP-5700.

    > There was a justification for this from Kris
    >Zaklika on the JASC support forums recently which made interesting
    >reading. I don't believe the free version of Neat Image will save 16-bit
    >data either.


    >> Does it still delete the ICC profiles for anything other than sRGB
    >> tags?

    >
    >You would need to ask this is one of the JASC support forums.


    I asked this specifically in the usenet psp group and never got an answer.
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
    Ed Ruf, Oct 31, 2004
    #8
  9. Ed Ruf wrote:
    []
    > Only some. Mainly dSLRs. Not my CP-5700.


    I would suggest sending a 5700 RAW file to JASC as they have stated their
    intention to extend RAW file support.

    >>> Does it still delete the ICC profiles for anything other than sRGB
    >>> tags?

    >>
    >> You would need to ask this is one of the JASC support forums.

    >
    > I asked this specifically in the usenet psp group and never got an
    > answer.


    I gave up on the usenet newsgroup - too much rubbish - the JASC forums are
    far better and the actual developers can sometimes be found answering
    users' questions.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Oct 31, 2004
    #9
  10. Neatimage Pro has a Photoshop Plugin - so you can stay with the
    software you like.


    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:18:28 GMT, "peter" <> wrote:

    >Is there any photo editing software with built-in noise reduction similar to
    >Neat Image?
    >


    --------------------------------
    Leith Cassone, Oct 31, 2004
    #10
  11. peter

    John Doe Guest

    Jasc Paint Shop Pro 9, but I have found it to be hard to use and very
    un-intuitive. I recommend you look at a plug-in like Neat Image.
    http://www.neatimage.com. It is an awesome plug-in and allows you to use
    Photoshop which is of course the best.

    John


    "peter" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:f8hd.2264$pY6.551@trnddc04...
    > Is there any photo editing software with built-in noise reduction similar
    > to Neat Image?
    >
    John Doe, Oct 31, 2004
    #11
  12. peter

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:11:41 -0000, in rec.photo.digital "David J Taylor"
    <> wrote:

    >I gave up on the usenet newsgroup - too much rubbish - the JASC forums are
    >far better and the actual developers can sometimes be found answering
    >users' questions.


    But you have to register. I specifically asked Kris in a thread he was
    participating in wrt to PSP9 and got no response. I've seen this behavior
    from him in replying before. Specifically regarding questions I posed
    trying to get the NEF plugin from NikonView to work in PSP. I believe I
    just found the answer in the D70 ebook by Thom Hogan. The NV plugin renders
    to 16 bit. Which of course isn't supported by PSP so it generates and
    error. I can't tell you how many posts I've see from folks trying to get
    this to work. a simple response would have gone a long way. Query's to JASC
    tech support in regard to this also generate absolutely no replies.
    Registered users deserve more than that.
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
    Ed Ruf, Oct 31, 2004
    #12
  13. peter

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:44:59 -0500, in rec.photo.digital Ed Ruf
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:03:07 -0000, in rec.photo.digital "David J Taylor"
    ><> wrote:
    >>You would need to ask this is one of the JASC support forums.

    >
    >I asked this specifically in the usenet psp group and never got an answer.


    I should point out that I did this after I took BillH to task for
    recommending only Adobe products to a someone new looking for
    recommendations on editors. I still believe PSP is a valid solution for
    many folks, but there are some issues associated with it and it's support.
    Will the buy out by Corel be a plus, I don't know. They sure have done much
    for the Micrografx products they bought last year, many of which I've used
    in the past, other than to roll them into their suites. They killed Ventura
    imo, which I also used for years.
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
    Ed Ruf, Oct 31, 2004
    #13
  14. Ed Ruf wrote:
    > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:11:41 -0000, in rec.photo.digital "David J
    > Taylor" <> wrote:
    >
    >> I gave up on the usenet newsgroup - too much rubbish - the JASC
    >> forums are far better and the actual developers can sometimes be
    >> found answering users' questions.

    >
    > But you have to register.


    A good thing, when you remember what the usenet group was like.....

    > I specifically asked Kris in a thread he was
    > participating in wrt to PSP9 and got no response. I've seen this
    > behavior from him in replying before. Specifically regarding
    > questions I posed trying to get the NEF plugin from NikonView to work
    > in PSP. I believe I just found the answer in the D70 ebook by Thom
    > Hogan. The NV plugin renders to 16 bit. Which of course isn't
    > supported by PSP so it generates and error. I can't tell you how many
    > posts I've see from folks trying to get this to work. a simple
    > response would have gone a long way. Query's to JASC tech support in
    > regard to this also generate absolutely no replies. Registered users
    > deserve more than that.


    Yes, you would certainly expect a response, and I, too, have one
    outstanding query with them. At the moment, they are in the middle of a
    takeover (?) by Corel, so any tardiness has a transient excuse.

    I still rate PSP9 with its perspective correction, noise reduction, and
    chromatic aberration reduction tools well worth a try.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Oct 31, 2004
    #14
  15. "David J Taylor" <> wrote in
    news::

    > Paint Shop Pro 9 will work with 12-bit etc. RAW camera files, but does
    > not support 16-bit editing. There was a justification for this from
    > Kris Zaklika on the JASC support forums recently which made
    > interesting reading.


    16 bit editing is linear editing. 8 bits works in a non linear domain.
    Linear editing is much better.

    8 bit editing will result in weird histograms whenever you do slight
    adjustments of the color balance.

    You will of course motivate 8 bit editing as long as you don't have
    16 bit editing. You can motivate it with that you cannot "see" the
    difference - or something. But the difference is there and it will
    eventually show up when you do some future editing.


    /Roland
    Roland Karlsson, Oct 31, 2004
    #15
  16. Roland Karlsson wrote:
    []
    > 16 bit editing is linear editing. 8 bits works in a non linear domain.
    > Linear editing is much better.


    I agree that the domain is different, but there is much more experience in
    the non-linear domain! I don't agree that linear editing is any better or
    any worse than non-linear editing. I would agree that 16-bit editing is
    better because of the increased precision.

    > 8 bit editing will result in weird histograms whenever you do slight
    > adjustments of the color balance.


    I have never seen this, but obviously you have. If you mean that there
    are missing levels this can result from any slight gain adjustment.

    > You will of course motivate 8 bit editing as long as you don't have
    > 16 bit editing. You can motivate it with that you cannot "see" the
    > difference - or something. But the difference is there and it will
    > eventually show up when you do some future editing.


    I am not "motivating" anything (and I don't know what you mean. Promote?
    Use?). I was merely reporting.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Oct 31, 2004
    #16
  17. peter

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:17:45 -0000, in rec.photo.digital "David J Taylor"
    <> wrote:

    >Ed Ruf wrote:
    >> But you have to register.

    >
    >A good thing, when you remember what the usenet group was like.....


    Heck this group was way worse than the comp.graphics.apps.paint-shop-pro a
    while ago.


    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
    Ed Ruf, Oct 31, 2004
    #17
  18. "David J Taylor" <> wrote in
    news::

    > I have never seen this, but obviously you have. If you mean that
    > there are missing levels this can result from any slight gain
    > adjustment.


    Yepp - and missing levels means less information.

    > I am not "motivating" anything (and I don't know what you mean.
    > Promote? Use?). I was merely reporting.


    Sorry - I did not mean you. There are some out there that tries to
    "prove" that 8 bit is enough and have done so for many years. Even
    Adobe said that 8 bit is enough just a year or two ago - but now
    PS CS is mostly 16 bit.

    I am 100% sure that no serious Photographers will do any 8 bit
    editing just some few years from now. You do lose too much
    information in almost any manipulation step. Maybe it is enough
    with 8 bit inputs and outputs, but the intermediate steps shall
    be 16 bit (or more) linear.


    /Roland
    Roland Karlsson, Oct 31, 2004
    #18
  19. Roland Karlsson wrote:
    []
    > I am 100% sure that no serious Photographers will do any 8 bit
    > editing just some few years from now. You do lose too much
    > information in almost any manipulation step. Maybe it is enough
    > with 8 bit inputs and outputs, but the intermediate steps shall
    > be 16 bit (or more) linear.


    Yes, I think you are right. What we need in between is a better way of
    representing 12-bit data between camera and computer. I have neither the
    time nor the flash-memory card space to use pure RAW. Something like
    12-bit JPEG (where I can allow a little lossy compression should I wish)
    would seem to be a good compromise, but it's not well supported.

    My usage doesn't justify RAW for every file (I post-process perhaps 1
    image in 20, preferring to get things right when taking), so it would be
    nice to have that extra data without having to take any special action at
    taking time.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Nov 1, 2004
    #19
  20. "David J Taylor" <> wrote in
    news::

    > Yes, I think you are right. What we need in between is a better way
    > of representing 12-bit data between camera and computer. I have
    > neither the time nor the flash-memory card space to use pure RAW.
    > Something like 12-bit JPEG (where I can allow a little lossy
    > compression should I wish) would seem to be a good compromise, but
    > it's not well supported.
    >


    Thats called JPEG 2000 :)

    And yes - it is not well supported.

    Currently you are assumed to use lots of file space for your
    RAW or TIFF or PSD files if you are serious about higher
    dynamic range.


    /Roland
    Roland Karlsson, Nov 1, 2004
    #20
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