antiviral programs scam?

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by cporro@gmail.com, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. Guest

    if you don't want to read this all just skip to the question at the
    end.

    about a year ago i switched to a pc. when i did this a guy i knew said
    it was absolutely necessary to get a firewall and some antiviral
    program. so i ignored him.

    last week i decided to finally protect my machine and found some
    reviews on antiviral programs etc. the Shield was ranked very high so i
    purchased it.

    ironically i must have been infected either right after of right before
    i installed it. soon my OS was giving me notifications that i was
    infected. a process called "iexplore" was always hanging up my machine
    when i tried to restart. no, this was not from me launching Internet
    explorer. i use firefox. a program called spywarequake was generous
    enough to have installed itself as well.

    so, i ran the shield on my system. the whole thing. and it didn't' do a
    damn thing. in fact the machine just crashed after about an hour of
    scanning.

    long story short, i did some research and found a way to manually
    remove spywarequake:
    http://www.sunbelt-software.com/spyware/SpywareQuakeRemoval.html

    it has never appeared again and my system has stopped saying i'm
    infected. however, a process called "iexpore" was still hangin me up
    when i did a restart. i feel like my problems are not completely
    solved.

    almost forgot, after this my OS was behaving funny. and i did read that
    spywarequake could mess with your OS. anyway i tried to do a reinstall
    and my machine got hung up again. would no recognize the CD-rom.
    finally i got a reinstall from an external cd-rom.

    MY QUESTION:
    is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs? i mean
    this program did absolutely nothing for me. they took my money.
    apparently i "need" them. but the reality i'm experiencing is something
    like this. don't download stuff from sketchy porn sites.
     
    , Apr 14, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Bit Twister Guest

    On 14 Apr 2006 10:04:36 -0700, wrote:
    >
    > MY QUESTION:
    > is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs? i mean
    > this program did absolutely nothing for me. they took my money.
    > apparently i "need" them. but the reality i'm experiencing is something
    > like this. don't download stuff from sketchy porn sites.


    Window OSs running without firewalls/antivirus/worm/malware protection
    do not run long before becoming infected when connected to the net
    regardless of where you might surf.

    Some malware has evolved which will disable your AV software. As long
    as you are running that Microsoft OS, your odds of getting infections
    are real good. Your AntiVirus software is like a car alarm. It works
    lots of the time, but once in awhile, you get a breakin.

    Once infected, you best choice is format, clean install from cd,
    install/enable firewall, download AV database/update, get your OS
    updates. There have been articles on how systems were infected while
    downloading the updates to prevent the infection.

    So what do you do if you want to continue to use your OS.

    Buy a router to provide Network Address Translation between you and
    your computer. That is your first line of defence. Now worms/malware
    crawing the net can not find your computer behind the router to infect
    you while you get your antivirus and OS updates installed.

    Next, you install some third party mail reader and browsers to help
    reduce to malware entry points.

    Oh yes, you need to have your AV software getting update every hour
    if not sooner.

    Then create a user account without system privledges. That is the
    account you always use unless doing some updates or installing
    software.


    At this point, your system is like like driving in a demolition derby.
    You have beefed up your car, installed crash bars, using a seat belt
    crash helment and crash padding.
    Now you can plan on getting knocked out of the race by a Zero Day
    Exploit or getting infected with some malware.

    My choice, drive with a more secure OS.
     
    Bit Twister, Apr 14, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. From: <>

    | if you don't want to read this all just skip to the question at the
    | end.
    |
    | about a year ago i switched to a pc. when i did this a guy i knew said
    | it was absolutely necessary to get a firewall and some antiviral
    | program. so i ignored him.
    |
    | last week i decided to finally protect my machine and found some
    | reviews on antiviral programs etc. the Shield was ranked very high so i
    | purchased it.
    |
    | ironically i must have been infected either right after of right before
    | i installed it. soon my OS was giving me notifications that i was
    | infected. a process called "iexplore" was always hanging up my machine
    | when i tried to restart. no, this was not from me launching Internet
    | explorer. i use firefox. a program called spywarequake was generous
    | enough to have installed itself as well.
    |
    | so, i ran the shield on my system. the whole thing. and it didn't' do a
    | damn thing. in fact the machine just crashed after about an hour of
    | scanning.
    |
    | long story short, i did some research and found a way to manually
    | remove spywarequake:
    | http://www.sunbelt-software.com/spyware/SpywareQuakeRemoval.html
    |
    | it has never appeared again and my system has stopped saying i'm
    | infected. however, a process called "iexpore" was still hangin me up
    | when i did a restart. i feel like my problems are not completely
    | solved.
    |
    | almost forgot, after this my OS was behaving funny. and i did read that
    | spywarequake could mess with your OS. anyway i tried to do a reinstall
    | and my machine got hung up again. would no recognize the CD-rom.
    | finally i got a reinstall from an external cd-rom.
    |
    | MY QUESTION:
    | is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs? i mean
    | this program did absolutely nothing for me. they took my money.
    | apparently i "need" them. but the reality i'm experiencing is something
    | like this. don't download stuff from sketchy porn sites.

    The Shield Pro is junk. While it is not listed on Spyware warrioor as a Rogue like
    WinAntivuris is SpywareQuake is listed as a Rogue anti spyware application.

    http://www.spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm

    Next time check with professionals. You would have been pointed to reputable software such
    as Kaspersky or NOD32 anti virus software.

    --
    Dave
    http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
    http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
     
    David H. Lipman, Apr 14, 2006
    #3
  4. donnie Guest

    On 14 Apr 2006 10:04:36 -0700, wrote:

    >MY QUESTION:
    >is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs?

    ##############################################
    I think that's part of it. I haven't run an AV program on in years.
    I feel I know how to protect myself without one. I do run spybot S&D
    though and most times it says Congratulations, no problems found.
     
    donnie, Apr 14, 2006
    #4
  5. Jim Byrd Guest

    Hi cporro - To answer your specific question - Yes, there is although it's
    normally more prevalent with regard to anti-malware programs than to
    anti-viral ones. Take a look at my Blog, addy below in my signature, for
    some links to things you should read and the minimum set of actions you need
    to take to adequately protect your system.

    --
    Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP/DTS/AH-VSOP
    My Blog, Defending Your Machine, here:
    http://DefendingYourMachine.blogspot.com/



    <> wrote in message
    news:
    || if you don't want to read this all just skip to the question at the
    || end.
    ||
    || about a year ago i switched to a pc. when i did this a guy i knew said
    || it was absolutely necessary to get a firewall and some antiviral
    || program. so i ignored him.
    ||
    || last week i decided to finally protect my machine and found some
    || reviews on antiviral programs etc. the Shield was ranked very high so i
    || purchased it.
    ||
    || ironically i must have been infected either right after of right before
    || i installed it. soon my OS was giving me notifications that i was
    || infected. a process called "iexplore" was always hanging up my machine
    || when i tried to restart. no, this was not from me launching Internet
    || explorer. i use firefox. a program called spywarequake was generous
    || enough to have installed itself as well.
    ||
    || so, i ran the shield on my system. the whole thing. and it didn't' do a
    || damn thing. in fact the machine just crashed after about an hour of
    || scanning.
    ||
    || long story short, i did some research and found a way to manually
    || remove spywarequake:
    || http://www.sunbelt-software.com/spyware/SpywareQuakeRemoval.html
    ||
    || it has never appeared again and my system has stopped saying i'm
    || infected. however, a process called "iexpore" was still hangin me up
    || when i did a restart. i feel like my problems are not completely
    || solved.
    ||
    || almost forgot, after this my OS was behaving funny. and i did read that
    || spywarequake could mess with your OS. anyway i tried to do a reinstall
    || and my machine got hung up again. would no recognize the CD-rom.
    || finally i got a reinstall from an external cd-rom.
    ||
    || MY QUESTION:
    || is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs? i mean
    || this program did absolutely nothing for me. they took my money.
    || apparently i "need" them. but the reality i'm experiencing is something
    || like this. don't download stuff from sketchy porn sites.
     
    Jim Byrd, Apr 15, 2006
    #5
  6. Imhotep Guest

    wrote:

    > if you don't want to read this all just skip to the question at the
    > end.
    >
    > about a year ago i switched to a pc. when i did this a guy i knew said
    > it was absolutely necessary to get a firewall and some antiviral
    > program. so i ignored him.
    >
    > last week i decided to finally protect my machine and found some
    > reviews on antiviral programs etc. the Shield was ranked very high so i
    > purchased it.
    >
    > ironically i must have been infected either right after of right before
    > i installed it. soon my OS was giving me notifications that i was
    > infected. a process called "iexplore" was always hanging up my machine
    > when i tried to restart. no, this was not from me launching Internet
    > explorer. i use firefox. a program called spywarequake was generous
    > enough to have installed itself as well.
    >
    > so, i ran the shield on my system. the whole thing. and it didn't' do a
    > damn thing. in fact the machine just crashed after about an hour of
    > scanning.
    >
    > long story short, i did some research and found a way to manually
    > remove spywarequake:
    > http://www.sunbelt-software.com/spyware/SpywareQuakeRemoval.html
    >
    > it has never appeared again and my system has stopped saying i'm
    > infected. however, a process called "iexpore" was still hangin me up
    > when i did a restart. i feel like my problems are not completely
    > solved.
    >
    > almost forgot, after this my OS was behaving funny. and i did read that
    > spywarequake could mess with your OS. anyway i tried to do a reinstall
    > and my machine got hung up again. would no recognize the CD-rom.
    > finally i got a reinstall from an external cd-rom.
    >
    > MY QUESTION:
    > is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs? i mean
    > this program did absolutely nothing for me. they took my money.
    > apparently i "need" them. but the reality i'm experiencing is something
    > like this. don't download stuff from sketchy porn sites.



    Honestly, the whole damn PC industry has become a scam....

    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Apr 15, 2006
    #6
  7. Jim Watt Guest

    On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:31:35 GMT, donnie <> wrote:

    >I think that's part of it. I haven't run an AV program on in years.
    >I feel I know how to protect myself without one. I do run spybot S&D
    >though and most times it says Congratulations, no problems found.


    I second that, a lot of problems I get are a result of AV software
    and it sucks the guts out of some of my clients machines. Its
    lost its way, as the threats today are different to when this stuff
    was concieved and its been patched and extended
    and bloated with all sorts of functionality leaving less for
    applications.

    Although S&D is good, I switched to the PC tools product
    which is commercial and updated more often. It sorted out
    spyaxe for a client and looked useful.

    Process monitor from sysinternals is the final solution to most
    problems, but these tools are only good for experienced users.

    Otherwise, the best precaution is removing any executable
    attachments from email at the server. 'virus scanning' is a
    waste of time, kill 'em all.

    My need for browser toolbars and animated 'screen savers'
    and advertisment supported software is not detectable.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Apr 15, 2006
    #7
  8. cporro wrote:

    <snippage>

    > ironically i must have been infected either right after of right before
    > i installed it. soon my OS was giving me notifications that i was
    > infected.


    Or, you had been infected for a long while but somehting changed that
    might bring it to your attention. Like some sort of antivirus software
    only partially removing a piece of malware that previously managed to hide
    itself from you.

    Things aren't always as they appear, especially when dealing with complex
    machines.

    > a process called "iexplore" was always hanging up my machine
    > when i tried to restart. no, this was not from me launching Internet
    > explorer. i use firefox. a program called spywarequake was generous
    > enough to have installed itself as well.


    Iexplore runs as a sort of "window manager" on windows systems. It gives
    you much of that pretty user interface, and thus the reason it can never
    be FULLY uninstalled from a Windows box. :(

    > so, i ran the shield on my system. the whole thing. and it didn't' do a
    > damn thing. in fact the machine just crashed after about an hour of
    > scanning.
    >
    > long story short, i did some research and found a way to manually remove
    > spywarequake:
    > http://www.sunbelt-software.com/spyware/SpywareQuakeRemoval.html


    FWIW, the best course of action is to not get infected in the first place. ;)

    Not to say anything about your particular incident(s), but no software can
    ever be expected to reliably repair a damaged system. Sometimes it's
    impossible. Usually it's impossible to return your system to its
    "pristine" state, but possible to get it to a place that it's working
    properly.

    > it has never appeared again and my system has stopped saying i'm infected.
    > however, a process called "iexpore" was still hangin me up when i did a
    > restart. i feel like my problems are not completely solved.


    They may never be without you restoring your system from clean backups.

    You do have backups, don't you? :)

    > almost forgot, after this my OS was behaving funny. and i did read that
    > spywarequake could mess with your OS. anyway i tried to do a reinstall and
    > my machine got hung up again. would no recognize the CD-rom. finally i got
    > a reinstall from an external cd-rom.


    If you're "reinstalling" over top of an old copy of Windows you're
    probably either going to make no difference at all, or cause yourself more
    problems as whatever is messing with your system breaks. Yes, it sounds
    odd, but viruses have a vested interest in keeping your machine up and if
    you mess with them you run the risk of making the machine unusable.

    Best to completely wipe the drive and start over clean, from a known clean
    install media, without any remnants of the old copy of your operating
    system anywhere around.

    >
    > MY QUESTION:
    > is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs? i mean


    Of course. There's good used car salesmen, and bad. Professional home
    re-modelers, and fly-by-nights. Good doctors, and quacks. Just like any
    business there's a bad element. Although there may be a few more in the
    computer security business because most people are far less ignorant
    about brains surgery, cars, and additions to their houses than they are
    computer security. ;-)

    There IS a lot of FUD and propaganda out there. Best you can do is study
    and ask questions where independent thinkers hang out.

    > this program did absolutely nothing for me. they took my money. apparently
    > i "need" them. but the reality i'm experiencing is something like this.
    > don't download stuff from sketchy porn sites.


    Are there porn sites that AREN'T "sketchy"? <grinning>
     
    Borked Pseudo Mailed, Apr 15, 2006
    #8
  9. nemo Guest

    "Imhotep" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > wrote:
    >
    > > if you don't want to read this all just skip to the question at the
    > > end.
    > >
    > > about a year ago i switched to a pc. when i did this a guy i knew said
    > > it was absolutely necessary to get a firewall and some antiviral
    > > program. so i ignored him.
    > >
    > > last week i decided to finally protect my machine and found some
    > > reviews on antiviral programs etc. the Shield was ranked very high so i
    > > purchased it.
    > >
    > > ironically i must have been infected either right after of right before
    > > i installed it. soon my OS was giving me notifications that i was
    > > infected. a process called "iexplore" was always hanging up my machine
    > > when i tried to restart. no, this was not from me launching Internet
    > > explorer. i use firefox. a program called spywarequake was generous
    > > enough to have installed itself as well.
    > >
    > > so, i ran the shield on my system. the whole thing. and it didn't' do a
    > > damn thing. in fact the machine just crashed after about an hour of
    > > scanning.
    > >
    > > long story short, i did some research and found a way to manually
    > > remove spywarequake:
    > > http://www.sunbelt-software.com/spyware/SpywareQuakeRemoval.html
    > >
    > > it has never appeared again and my system has stopped saying i'm
    > > infected. however, a process called "iexpore" was still hangin me up
    > > when i did a restart. i feel like my problems are not completely
    > > solved.
    > >
    > > almost forgot, after this my OS was behaving funny. and i did read that
    > > spywarequake could mess with your OS. anyway i tried to do a reinstall
    > > and my machine got hung up again. would no recognize the CD-rom.
    > > finally i got a reinstall from an external cd-rom.
    > >
    > > MY QUESTION:
    > > is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs? i mean
    > > this program did absolutely nothing for me. they took my money.
    > > apparently i "need" them. but the reality i'm experiencing is something
    > > like this. don't download stuff from sketchy porn sites.

    >
    >
    > Honestly, the whole damn PC industry has become a scam....
    >
    > Imhotep


    Hear hear. Got a nice pension and big lump sum arriving in a year's time.
    :eek:)))))))))))))) and my next PC is definitely going to be a Mac with all the
    trimmings - especially the Adobe ones. Might be able to run a filter in
    Photoshop without going out and doing my shopping to pass the time!

    You've got no idea what 'slow' means unless your running a ten-year-old Dell
    contraption!

    And yes - I think most spyware and viruses are written by the anti-virus
    industry to keep their businesses going!

    If proof were found, it'd be the fraud of the bloody century!

    Memo: This is Nemo!
     
    nemo, Apr 17, 2006
    #9
  10. nemo Guest

    "Borked Pseudo Mailed" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > cporro wrote:
    >
    > <snippage>
    >
    > > ironically i must have been infected either right after of right before
    > > i installed it. soon my OS was giving me notifications that i was
    > > infected.

    >
    > Or, you had been infected for a long while but somehting changed that
    > might bring it to your attention. Like some sort of antivirus software
    > only partially removing a piece of malware that previously managed to hide
    > itself from you.
    >
    > Things aren't always as they appear, especially when dealing with complex
    > machines.
    >
    > > a process called "iexplore" was always hanging up my machine
    > > when i tried to restart. no, this was not from me launching Internet
    > > explorer. i use firefox. a program called spywarequake was generous
    > > enough to have installed itself as well.

    >
    > Iexplore runs as a sort of "window manager" on windows systems. It gives
    > you much of that pretty user interface, and thus the reason it can never
    > be FULLY uninstalled from a Windows box. :(
    >
    > > so, i ran the shield on my system. the whole thing. and it didn't' do a
    > > damn thing. in fact the machine just crashed after about an hour of
    > > scanning.
    > >
    > > long story short, i did some research and found a way to manually remove
    > > spywarequake:
    > > http://www.sunbelt-software.com/spyware/SpywareQuakeRemoval.html

    >
    > FWIW, the best course of action is to not get infected in the first place.

    ;)
    >
    > Not to say anything about your particular incident(s), but no software can
    > ever be expected to reliably repair a damaged system. Sometimes it's
    > impossible. Usually it's impossible to return your system to its
    > "pristine" state, but possible to get it to a place that it's working
    > properly.
    >
    > > it has never appeared again and my system has stopped saying i'm

    infected.
    > > however, a process called "iexpore" was still hangin me up when i did a
    > > restart. i feel like my problems are not completely solved.

    >
    > They may never be without you restoring your system from clean backups.
    >
    > You do have backups, don't you? :)
    >
    > > almost forgot, after this my OS was behaving funny. and i did read that
    > > spywarequake could mess with your OS. anyway i tried to do a reinstall

    and
    > > my machine got hung up again. would no recognize the CD-rom. finally i

    got
    > > a reinstall from an external cd-rom.

    >
    > If you're "reinstalling" over top of an old copy of Windows you're
    > probably either going to make no difference at all, or cause yourself more
    > problems as whatever is messing with your system breaks. Yes, it sounds
    > odd, but viruses have a vested interest in keeping your machine up and if
    > you mess with them you run the risk of making the machine unusable.
    >
    > Best to completely wipe the drive and start over clean, from a known clean
    > install media, without any remnants of the old copy of your operating
    > system anywhere around.
    >
    > >
    > > MY QUESTION:
    > > is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs? i mean

    >
    > Of course. There's good used car salesmen, and bad. Professional home
    > re-modelers, and fly-by-nights. Good doctors, and quacks. Just like any
    > business there's a bad element. Although there may be a few more in the
    > computer security business because most people are far less ignorant
    > about brains surgery, cars, and additions to their houses than they are
    > computer security. ;-)
    >
    > There IS a lot of FUD and propaganda out there. Best you can do is study
    > and ask questions where independent thinkers hang out.
    >
    > > this program did absolutely nothing for me. they took my money.

    apparently
    > > i "need" them. but the reality i'm experiencing is something like this.
    > > don't download stuff from sketchy porn sites.

    >
    > Are there porn sites that AREN'T "sketchy"? <grinning>
    >


    Who needs porn *sites* when there's the nice free Usenet? ;o)

    For how much longer I dunno. Has it occurred to anyone else that blog sites
    might be the beginning of an attempt to shut the Usenet by providing a
    better-known replacement?
     
    nemo, Apr 17, 2006
    #10
  11. Guest

    hey everyone. thanks much. thats good info. i like this group. somtimes
    i post and get nothing but unhelpful flamey replies. this time it was
    worth the effort.
     
    , Apr 20, 2006
    #11
  12. Imhotep Guest

    nemo wrote:

    >
    > "Imhotep" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> > if you don't want to read this all just skip to the question at the
    >> > end.
    >> >
    >> > about a year ago i switched to a pc. when i did this a guy i knew said
    >> > it was absolutely necessary to get a firewall and some antiviral
    >> > program. so i ignored him.
    >> >
    >> > last week i decided to finally protect my machine and found some
    >> > reviews on antiviral programs etc. the Shield was ranked very high so i
    >> > purchased it.
    >> >
    >> > ironically i must have been infected either right after of right before
    >> > i installed it. soon my OS was giving me notifications that i was
    >> > infected. a process called "iexplore" was always hanging up my machine
    >> > when i tried to restart. no, this was not from me launching Internet
    >> > explorer. i use firefox. a program called spywarequake was generous
    >> > enough to have installed itself as well.
    >> >
    >> > so, i ran the shield on my system. the whole thing. and it didn't' do a
    >> > damn thing. in fact the machine just crashed after about an hour of
    >> > scanning.
    >> >
    >> > long story short, i did some research and found a way to manually
    >> > remove spywarequake:
    >> > http://www.sunbelt-software.com/spyware/SpywareQuakeRemoval.html
    >> >
    >> > it has never appeared again and my system has stopped saying i'm
    >> > infected. however, a process called "iexpore" was still hangin me up
    >> > when i did a restart. i feel like my problems are not completely
    >> > solved.
    >> >
    >> > almost forgot, after this my OS was behaving funny. and i did read that
    >> > spywarequake could mess with your OS. anyway i tried to do a reinstall
    >> > and my machine got hung up again. would no recognize the CD-rom.
    >> > finally i got a reinstall from an external cd-rom.
    >> >
    >> > MY QUESTION:
    >> > is there a frighten and scam angle to these antiviral programs? i mean
    >> > this program did absolutely nothing for me. they took my money.
    >> > apparently i "need" them. but the reality i'm experiencing is something
    >> > like this. don't download stuff from sketchy porn sites.

    >>
    >>
    >> Honestly, the whole damn PC industry has become a scam....
    >>
    >> Imhotep

    >
    > Hear hear. Got a nice pension and big lump sum arriving in a year's time.
    > :eek:)))))))))))))) and my next PC is definitely going to be a Mac with all
    > :the
    > trimmings - especially the Adobe ones. Might be able to run a filter in
    > Photoshop without going out and doing my shopping to pass the time!
    >
    > You've got no idea what 'slow' means unless your running a ten-year-old
    > Dell contraption!
    >
    > And yes - I think most spyware and viruses are written by the anti-virus
    > industry to keep their businesses going!
    >
    > If proof were found, it'd be the fraud of the bloody century!
    >
    > Memo: This is Nemo!



    Couldn't agree with you more!

    Im
     
    Imhotep, Apr 22, 2006
    #12
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