anti-counterfeiting measures

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by mcgyverjones, Oct 5, 2004.

  1. mcgyverjones

    mcgyverjones Guest

    I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...

    A site has been set up at www. moneyfactory.com to allow low-res images of
    bills to be made available for use by artists etc.
    Anyone know anything more about this, and it there is any possibility of
    problems for legit users?

    MJ
    mcgyverjones, Oct 5, 2004
    #1
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  2. mcgyverjones

    Zinnik Guest

    "mcgyverjones" <mcgyverjones(spamout)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:HOk8d.12539$...
    >I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    >anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    > I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50,
    > is being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of
    > scanners, printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    > Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    > to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...


    It chews up the $50 bill and prints out 5 x $1 bills!! But the Treasury
    Dept will rebate the $45. You have to pick it up in person and be wearing
    striped pants and shirt when you do!!!

    ..
    Zinnik, Oct 5, 2004
    #2
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  3. Try it yourself and see...I know I will as soon as I can scrape $50
    together. Having previously worked as a printer I know the temptation to
    print paper money instead of printing paper to trade for money. But most
    counterfeiting is done with other things then currency.

    "mcgyverjones" <mcgyverjones(spamout)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:HOk8d.12539$...
    > I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    > anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    > I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50,

    is
    > being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    > printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    > Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    > to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...
    >
    > A site has been set up at www. moneyfactory.com to allow low-res images of
    > bills to be made available for use by artists etc.
    > Anyone know anything more about this, and it there is any possibility of
    > problems for legit users?
    >
    > MJ
    >
    >
    Gene Palmiter, Oct 5, 2004
    #3
  4. mcgyverjones

    Alan Browne Guest

    mcgyverjones wrote:

    > I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    > anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    > I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    > being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    > printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    > Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    > to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...



    The designs of new bills are made to create artifacts when copied. Artifacts
    include areas that copy as white or black instead of the original grey,
    microprint that cannot be resolved and the creation of moiré patterns that
    identify the fake bill. There are likely other clever things happening too.
    Some currency (where the hell was I?) now includes a "watermark" so to speak in
    a clear (acetate like) area of the bill.

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
    Alan Browne, Oct 5, 2004
    #4
  5. mcgyverjones

    Rick Guest

    "mcgyverjones" <mcgyverjones(spamout)@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:HOk8d.12539$...
    > I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    > anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    > I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    > being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    > printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    > Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    > to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...
    >
    > A site has been set up at www. moneyfactory.com to allow low-res images of
    > bills to be made available for use by artists etc.
    > Anyone know anything more about this, and it there is any possibility of
    > problems for legit users?


    Yes, this technology is already in both Photoshop CS and the
    most recent version of PSP. If you try to scan in one of the new
    $20 bills it won't allow you, and you'll get a nasty message about
    being a bad person.

    The check was voluntarily implemented by Adobe and others at
    the request of a conglomeration of U.S. and international banking
    interests, not governments. On those grounds alone I have major
    problems with it. I mean what's next, checking to see if we're
    scanning corporate logos? Developers have opened a Pandora's
    Box of potential intrusions by agreeing to include this technology
    in their products.

    The currency check is causing problems for quite a few people,
    e.g. those who actually do need to scan money for business
    purposes (e.g. currency traders, etc). And apparently some
    people (e.g. government officials) can get a special version of
    PS that doesn't include this check. There's also a patch available
    for PS that will bypasss the check. Don't know if the same is
    available for PSP. Ask in one of the binary Usenet groups.

    Rick
    Rick, Oct 5, 2004
    #5
  6. "mcgyverjones" <mcgyverjones(spamout)@hotmail.com> writes:

    > I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    > anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.


    Yeah, it was admitted by one and all months ago. See, for example,
    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/7674024.htm?1c
    (breaking news back in January).

    > I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    > being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    > printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.


    No, it started with the peach $20 in the US. It's also built into foreign
    currency, too.

    > Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    > to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...


    Not sketchy, and the details are know. The software prevents the scanner
    from working properly and obtaining a good image. There's a pattern built
    into the currencies that the scanning software recognizes and won't copy.

    Somebody posted images (scanned with pre-anti-counterfeiting software, I
    presume) of several currencies, and the pattern is quite clear. I had a
    peach 20 and compared it to the images, and the pattern was quite clearly
    there. Don't have one on me at the moment, so I can't direct you to it. On
    a 20, it's on the back of the bill and I recall it's lots of little "20"s
    printed in a repeating pattern. If you download the back of the 50 from
    moneyfactory.com, the little gold 50s are there. The 50s are in a
    particular pattern which the scanning software recognizes. Foreign
    currencies employ the same pattern in more creative ways. It's the pattern,
    not the numbers, that are recognized, and some currencies employ the
    pattern as part of an attractive design.
    --
    Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
    Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
    http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.
    Phil Stripling, Oct 5, 2004
    #6
  7. mcgyverjones wrote:

    > I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    > anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    > I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    > being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    > printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    > Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    > to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...
    >
    > A site has been set up at www. moneyfactory.com to allow low-res images of
    > bills to be made available for use by artists etc.
    > Anyone know anything more about this, and it there is any possibility of
    > problems for legit users?
    >
    > MJ
    >
    >

    The so called "anti-counterfeiting measures" are a constalation image
    which triggers the refusal to scan at 1 to1 ratio. It is not on all
    bills although Europe has signaled their acceptance of the technology.

    It is possible to scan at different resolutions with different software
    but basically it is intended to avoid oportunist forgeries. It sertainly
    won't stop a skilled person.

    COE
    call me any name, Oct 5, 2004
    #7
  8. mcgyverjones

    Jim Townsend Guest

    Alan Browne wrote:


    > The designs of new bills are made to create artifacts when copied. Artifacts
    > include areas that copy as white or black instead of the original grey,
    > microprint that cannot be resolved and the creation of moiré patterns that
    > identify the fake bill. There are likely other clever things happening too.
    > Some currency (where the hell was I?) now includes a "watermark" so to speak in
    > a clear (acetate like) area of the bill.


    I've seen where they mix short glass fibers in with the paper.. The light from
    scanner causes many random sparkles to appear on the copy.

    > Some currency (where the hell was I?) now includes a "watermark" so to speak in
    > a clear (acetate like) area of the bill.


    Australia and New Zealand print on sheets of clear mylar plastic instead of paper.
    They leave a small area uninked that you can see through.
    Jim Townsend, Oct 5, 2004
    #8
  9. mcgyverjones

    Jer Guest

    Jim Townsend wrote:

    > Australia and New Zealand print on sheets of clear mylar plastic instead of paper.
    > They leave a small area uninked that you can see through.



    Mexico is also doing this now.


    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
    Jer, Oct 5, 2004
    #9
  10. mcgyverjones

    Jer Guest

    Rick wrote:

    > "mcgyverjones" <mcgyverjones(spamout)@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:HOk8d.12539$...
    >
    >>I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    >>anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    >>I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    >>being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    >>printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    >>Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    >>to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...
    >>
    >>A site has been set up at www. moneyfactory.com to allow low-res images of
    >>bills to be made available for use by artists etc.
    >>Anyone know anything more about this, and it there is any possibility of
    >>problems for legit users?

    >
    >
    > Yes, this technology is already in both Photoshop CS and the
    > most recent version of PSP. If you try to scan in one of the new
    > $20 bills it won't allow you, and you'll get a nasty message about
    > being a bad person.
    >
    > The check was voluntarily implemented by Adobe and others at
    > the request of a conglomeration of U.S. and international banking
    > interests, not governments. On those grounds alone I have major
    > problems with it. I mean what's next, checking to see if we're
    > scanning corporate logos? Developers have opened a Pandora's
    > Box of potential intrusions by agreeing to include this technology
    > in their products.
    >
    > The currency check is causing problems for quite a few people,
    > e.g. those who actually do need to scan money for business
    > purposes (e.g. currency traders, etc). And apparently some
    > people (e.g. government officials) can get a special version of
    > PS that doesn't include this check. There's also a patch available
    > for PS that will bypasss the check. Don't know if the same is
    > available for PSP. Ask in one of the binary Usenet groups.
    >
    > Rick
    >
    >


    I wish somebody would design a butt filter for the copy machine.
    Failing that, maybe the machine could spank it.

    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
    Jer, Oct 5, 2004
    #10
  11. mcgyverjones

    Jer Guest

    mcgyverjones wrote:

    > I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    > anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    > I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    > being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    > printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    > Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    > to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...
    >
    > A site has been set up at www. moneyfactory.com to allow low-res images of
    > bills to be made available for use by artists etc.
    > Anyone know anything more about this, and it there is any possibility of
    > problems for legit users?
    >
    > MJ
    >
    >



    I wonder what would happen if someone takes a really good macro image of
    one and prints it?


    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
    Jer, Oct 5, 2004
    #11
  12. mcgyverjones

    Guest

    On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:30:59 -0700, "Rick" <> wrote:

    >"mcgyverjones" <mcgyverjones(spamout)@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:HOk8d.12539$...
    >> I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    >> anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    >> I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    >> being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    >> printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    >> Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    >> to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...
    >>
    >> A site has been set up at www. moneyfactory.com to allow low-res images of
    >> bills to be made available for use by artists etc.
    >> Anyone know anything more about this, and it there is any possibility of
    >> problems for legit users?

    >
    >Yes, this technology is already in both Photoshop CS and the
    >most recent version of PSP. If you try to scan in one of the new
    >$20 bills it won't allow you, and you'll get a nasty message about
    >being a bad person.
    >
    >The check was voluntarily implemented by Adobe and others at
    >the request of a conglomeration of U.S. and international banking
    >interests, not governments. On those grounds alone I have major
    >problems with it. I mean what's next, checking to see if we're
    >scanning corporate logos? Developers have opened a Pandora's
    >Box of potential intrusions by agreeing to include this technology
    >in their products.
    >
    >The currency check is causing problems for quite a few people,
    >e.g. those who actually do need to scan money for business
    >purposes (e.g. currency traders, etc). And apparently some
    >people (e.g. government officials) can get a special version of
    >PS that doesn't include this check. There's also a patch available
    >for PS that will bypasss the check. Don't know if the same is
    >available for PSP. Ask in one of the binary Usenet groups.



    My son, who works for a graphics outfit, told me a couple of
    years ago (as he heard from the actual artists whose work was
    affected) that an early version of copiers simply evaluated an image
    for an average shade of green that closely matched the average green
    of the currency then in use. If the match was too close, it messed up
    the overall color of the copy. Images could be altered to avoid the
    averaging problem, but it was no longer the intended original.
    , Oct 5, 2004
    #12
  13. mcgyverjones

    Guest

    On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:52:25 +1000, call me any name
    <> wrote:

    >mcgyverjones wrote:
    >
    >> I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    >> anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    >> I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    >> being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    >> printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    >> Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    >> to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...
    >>
    >> A site has been set up at www. moneyfactory.com to allow low-res images of
    >> bills to be made available for use by artists etc.
    >> Anyone know anything more about this, and it there is any possibility of
    >> problems for legit users?
    >>
    >> MJ
    >>
    >>

    >The so called "anti-counterfeiting measures" are a constalation image
    >which triggers the refusal to scan at 1 to1 ratio.


    I suspect that it's got to be more than the 1:1 bit. Otherwise
    you could copy at 1:2, then reduce that copy 2:1.

    > It is not on all
    >bills although Europe has signaled their acceptance of the technology.
    >
    >It is possible to scan at different resolutions with different software
    >but basically it is intended to avoid oportunist forgeries. It sertainly
    >won't stop a skilled person.
    >
    >COE
    , Oct 5, 2004
    #13
  14. mcgyverjones

    John Bean Guest

    On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:24:52 -0500, Jer wrote:
    > I wonder what would happen if someone takes a really good macro image of
    > one and prints it?


    When I was calibrating a Minolta A2 (raw) image I used a picture that
    included a Macbeth checker and some (Eoro) currency. None of the banknotes
    showed a complete face. All was well until I got the colour right in ACR, at
    which point CS complained of forgery and refused to import the image.

    --
    John Bean

    When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading (Henny Youngman)
    John Bean, Oct 5, 2004
    #14
  15. mcgyverjones

    Hunt Guest

    In article <HOk8d.12539$>,
    says...
    >
    >I remember a post from about a year ago debating the existance of
    >anticounterfeiting measures being built into printers and copiers.
    >I've been reading today that the new US currency, starting with the $50, is
    >being designed in conjunction with a number of manufacturers of scanners,
    >printers and software to make it impossible to copy the bill.
    >Details are sketchy, and what happens when the system detects a bill seems
    >to be unknown (does it delete the file, log you on a DB...
    >
    >A site has been set up at www. moneyfactory.com to allow low-res images of
    >bills to be made available for use by artists etc.
    >Anyone know anything more about this, and it there is any possibility of
    >problems for legit users?
    >
    >MJ
    >


    You might want to go to www.groups.google.com and do a search on the Photoshop
    NG's. This general thread has been hashed to pieces there over the last year,
    or so.

    Hunt
    Hunt, Oct 5, 2004
    #15
  16. mcgyverjones

    mcgyverjones Guest

  17. On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:53:15 -0500, Jim Townsend <>
    wrote:

    (snipped)
    >
    >Australia and New Zealand print on sheets of clear mylar plastic instead of paper.
    >They leave a small area uninked that you can see through.
    >


    It always bothers me to see how trademarks get violated, and after the
    trademarked name is used generically long and frequently enough, it
    can no longer be protected in the courts. "Mylar" TM is a registered
    trademark of DuPont. To go back 3/4 of a century, so was cellophane,
    to name one of many so violated and ultimately lost to the company
    that originally owned it. But then I'm biased, I used to be with
    DuPont in the manufacture of "Mylar" TM.

    Olin McDaniel
    Olin K. McDaniel, Oct 6, 2004
    #17
  18. mcgyverjones

    Guest

    Kibo informs me that Jim Townsend <> stated that:

    >Australia and New Zealand print on sheets of clear mylar plastic instead of paper.
    >They leave a small area uninked that you can see through.


    Yep, plus holograms.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
    , Oct 6, 2004
    #18
  19. mcgyverjones

    dj_nme Guest

    wrote:
    > Kibo informs me that Jim Townsend <> stated that:
    >
    >
    >>Australia and New Zealand print on sheets of clear mylar plastic instead of paper.
    >>They leave a small area uninked that you can see through.

    >
    >
    > Yep, plus holograms.
    >


    Holograms were only on the early plastic $5 notes and they were not very
    durable.
    It seems that none of the current polymer note designs use a hologram.
    Mainly relying on the un-availability of the plastic sheet used and the
    printing methods that give the notes a very obvious surface texture.
    dj_nme, Oct 6, 2004
    #19
  20. mcgyverjones

    Jim Townsend Guest

    Olin K. McDaniel wrote:

    > On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:53:15 -0500, Jim Townsend <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > (snipped)
    >>
    >>Australia and New Zealand print on sheets of clear mylar plastic instead of paper.
    >>They leave a small area uninked that you can see through.
    >>

    >
    > It always bothers me to see how trademarks get violated, and after the
    > trademarked name is used generically long and frequently enough, it
    > can no longer be protected in the courts. "Mylar" TM is a registered
    > trademark of DuPont. To go back 3/4 of a century, so was cellophane,
    > to name one of many so violated and ultimately lost to the company
    > that originally owned it. But then I'm biased, I used to be with
    > DuPont in the manufacture of "Mylar" TM.



    LOL..

    OK OK.. Aus and NZ bills are made with a plastic polymer instead of paper :)
    Jim Townsend, Oct 6, 2004
    #20
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