Another feature dropped from Vista

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by GraB, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. GraB

    GraB Guest

    http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2761

    Microsoft drops PC-to-PC Sync from Windows Vista

    Microsoft has added another victim to its growing list of dropped
    features from its long delayed Windows Vista. According to TechWeb
    Microsoft has dropped PC-to-PC Sync, a feature that allows P2P
    transfer of files between computers to help keeps those files up to
    date on multiple computers.

    Previously, Microsoft dropped a number of what some consider key
    features from Windows Vista which include the .NET powered Windows
    shell codenamed ‘Monad’, WinFS -- the next generation Windows file
    system, and as DailyTech reported support for FireWire-B and other
    features. Many analysts and users are now questioning the actual
    benefits of Vista. Many of the features that were suppose to make
    Vista so great are now gone.

    All is not lost however. There is an incomplete and potentially
    inaccurate list of new features listed at Wikipedia. Among the new
    features are enhanced security capabilities including User Access
    Controls (UAC). UAC however may drive some users insane instead of
    being an effective security measure. Deleting a shortcut without
    adminstrative privileges may require more than seven steps to
    complete.
    GraB, Jun 13, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:54:05 +1200, GraB wrote:

    > Deleting a shortcut without
    > adminstrative privileges may require more than seven steps to
    > complete.


    Which just goes to show that Micro$oft really has no idea on how to make a
    computer secure!


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Jun 13, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. GraB

    thingy Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:54:05 +1200, GraB wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Deleting a shortcut without
    >>adminstrative privileges may require more than seven steps to
    >>complete.

    >
    >
    > Which just goes to show that Micro$oft really has no idea on how to make a
    > computer secure!
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    yeah.....either you can, or you cannot, no take 7 steps and its done
    anyway....if vista is this bad now......

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Jun 13, 2006
    #3
  4. GraB

    Steven H Guest

    Hello GraB,

    > Microsoft has added another victim to its growing list of dropped
    > features from its long delayed Windows Vista. According to TechWeb
    > Microsoft has dropped PC-to-PC Sync, a feature that allows P2P
    > transfer of files between computers to help keeps those files up to
    > date on multiple computers.


    ummm sync toy ? which is available now

    > Previously, Microsoft dropped a number of what some consider key
    > features from Windows Vista which include the .NET powered Windows
    > shell codenamed Monad,


    because its available now

    and just to show how accurate the source is Monald's name is 'Windows Power
    Shell', it has had that name for quite some time.

    > Deleting a shortcut without
    > adminstrative privileges may require more than seven steps to
    > complete.


    if that shortcut is a 'all user' one no 'user' should be able to delete it
    iirc its the same in XP

    ----------------
    the madGeek

    > http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2761
    >
    > Microsoft drops PC-to-PC Sync from Windows Vista
    >
    > Microsoft has added another victim to its growing list of dropped
    > features from its long delayed Windows Vista. According to TechWeb
    > Microsoft has dropped PC-to-PC Sync, a feature that allows P2P
    > transfer of files between computers to help keeps those files up to
    > date on multiple computers.
    >
    > Previously, Microsoft dropped a number of what some consider key
    > features from Windows Vista which include the .NET powered Windows
    > shell codenamed ‘Monad’, WinFS -- the next generation Windows file
    > system, and as DailyTech reported support for FireWire-B and other
    > features. Many analysts and users are now questioning the actual
    > benefits of Vista. Many of the features that were suppose to make
    > Vista so great are now gone.
    >
    > All is not lost however. There is an incomplete and potentially
    > inaccurate list of new features listed at Wikipedia. Among the new
    > features are enhanced security capabilities including User Access
    > Controls (UAC). UAC however may drive some users insane instead of
    > being an effective security measure. Deleting a shortcut without
    > adminstrative privileges may require more than seven steps to
    > complete.
    >
    Steven H, Jun 13, 2006
    #4
  5. On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:21:35 +0000, Steven H wrote:

    > if that shortcut is a 'all user' one no 'user' should be able to delete it
    > iirc its the same in XP


    A user should be able to delete ANYTHING on their desktop - absolutely and
    without question!

    After all - whose desktop is it?

    The user should have full control over their desktop.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Jun 13, 2006
    #5
  6. Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > > if that shortcut is a 'all user' one no 'user' should be able to delete it
    > > iirc its the same in XP

    >
    > A user should be able to delete ANYTHING on their desktop - absolutely and
    > without question!
    >
    > After all - whose desktop is it?
    >
    > The user should have full control over their desktop.


    Not neccessarily.

    A user doesn't have to be the PCs owner.

    If you work for me and I pay your wages, I'll have your PC desktop
    setup anyway that my business likes

    Cheers
    Nathan
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 13, 2006
    #6
  7. GraB wrote:
    > http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2761
    >
    > Microsoft drops PC-to-PC Sync from Windows Vista
    >
    > Microsoft has added another victim to its growing list of dropped
    > features from its long delayed Windows Vista. According to TechWeb
    > Microsoft has dropped PC-to-PC Sync, a feature that allows P2P
    > transfer of files between computers to help keeps those files up to
    > date on multiple computers.


    As someone else pointed out, use the Windows tool called SyncToy

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=E0FC1154-C975-4814-9649-CCE41AF06EB7

    > Previously, Microsoft dropped a number of what some consider key
    > features from Windows Vista which include the .NET powered Windows
    > shell codenamed 'Monad', WinFS -- the next generation Windows file


    "MONAD" was never, ever going to be in and on by default in Windows
    Vista.

    > system, and as DailyTech reported support for FireWire-B and other
    > features. Many analysts and users are now questioning the actual
    > benefits of Vista. Many of the features that were suppose to make
    > Vista so great are now gone.
    >
    > All is not lost however. There is an incomplete and potentially
    > inaccurate list of new features listed at Wikipedia. Among the new


    Actually Wikipedia is pretty much up to date with the list of Windows
    Vista features

    > features are enhanced security capabilities including User Access
    > Controls (UAC). UAC however may drive some users insane instead of
    > being an effective security measure. Deleting a shortcut without
    > adminstrative privileges may require more than seven steps to
    > complete.


    There is a bug in beta2 when you delete items off the desktop that you
    don't own, and then empty them from the recycle bin. This was known
    about and not fixed in beta2 because of priorities, its hardly a super
    important bug. It is already fixed internally in RC1 builds of Windows
    Vista.

    The first RC1 build will be going out to technical beta testers late
    June/early July.

    Regards
    Nathan
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 13, 2006
    #7
  8. thingy wrote:
    > >>Deleting a shortcut without
    > >>adminstrative privileges may require more than seven steps to
    > >>complete.

    > >
    > >
    > > Which just goes to show that Micro$oft really has no idea on how to make a
    > > computer secure!
    > >
    > >
    > > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    > >

    >
    > yeah.....either you can, or you cannot, no take 7 steps and its done
    > anyway....if vista is this bad now......


    It just gets _better_ from here on out till Release to Manufacture

    :)

    Cheers
    Nathan
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 13, 2006
    #8
  9. On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:27:17 -0700, someone purporting to be Nathan
    Mercer didst scrawl:

    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > If you work for me and I pay your wages, I'll have your PC desktop
    > setup anyway that my business likes
    >

    And if that's the degree of micromanagement that you consider acceptable,
    enjoy running the company on your own.

    As far as HANCOT's point about a user having full control goes, if they
    can create it they damn well ought to be able to delete it, no? Which,
    from what I've read, is not the case with Vista's attempt at a security
    model.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
    Matthew Poole, Jun 13, 2006
    #9
  10. On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 04:27:17 -0700, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    >> A user should be able to delete ANYTHING on their desktop - absolutely and
    >> without question!
    >>
    >> After all - whose desktop is it?
    >>
    >> The user should have full control over their desktop.

    >
    > Not neccessarily.
    >
    > A user doesn't have to be the PCs owner.


    A User is NOT the computer's owner - in the sense that a User is merely
    someone who uses the PC as a productivity tool. A User cannot make any
    changes to the configuration or operation of the computer in any way other
    than changes to their personal desktop settings. Only the Root user can
    make changes to the system - or users who have been specifically delegated
    ability from the root user (sudo).


    > If you work for me and I pay your wages, I'll have your PC desktop
    > setup anyway that my business likes


    Incorrect.

    The desktop is the *user's* working space. If you want optimal
    productivity out of your staff you provide them with an appropriate
    working space.

    And that means if a user wants a clean desktop and access to everything
    from the K menu, then so beit.

    If the user wants everything accessible from the desktop and only minimal
    stuff on the K menu, then so beit!

    How a user sets up their desktop does not alter how the computer will
    work, or how any other user can user their desktop. And the Root user can
    still set up the default desktop anyway they please.

    The only time you would want to completely lock down a user's desktop is
    when you're using the desktop as a kiosk - and yes in that circumstance of
    course you would want the user to be incapable of making any changes -
    because the users in those circumstances most likely be members of the
    public rather than proper users with accounts of their own.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Jun 13, 2006
    #10
  11. GraB

    Allistar Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:21:35 +0000, Steven H wrote:
    >
    >> if that shortcut is a 'all user' one no 'user' should be able to delete
    >> it iirc its the same in XP

    >
    > A user should be able to delete ANYTHING on their desktop - absolutely and
    > without question!


    Surely that would depend on the permissions of the file.

    A file that has 440 permissions on a users desktop cannot be deleted by
    them.

    > After all - whose desktop is it?
    >
    > The user should have full control over their desktop.
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea


    Allistar.
    Allistar, Jun 13, 2006
    #11
  12. Matthew Poole wrote:
    > *SNIP*
    > > If you work for me and I pay your wages, I'll have your PC desktop
    > > setup anyway that my business likes
    > >

    > And if that's the degree of micromanagement that you consider acceptable,
    > enjoy running the company on your own.


    Personally I wouldn't setup a system like that, but then again I
    wouldn't employ Have A Nice Cup of Tea either. Its just an example

    The point is that who ever owns and manages the computing
    infrastructure can set it up whichever way they like - this isn't
    communism. If I want to lockdown my PCs so users can't muck with their
    desktops then I will.

    I know many NZ organisations that do in fact lock down their users
    desktops, start menus, don't let them choose their own desktop
    background, screen savers, stop them saving icons to the desktop etc.

    I personally don't think this is the smartest of strategies, but thats
    none of my business. This is their prerogative and they can do
    whatever they choose

    > As far as HANCOT's point about a user having full control goes, if they
    > can create it they damn well ought to be able to delete it, no? Which,
    > from what I've read, is not the case with Vista's attempt at a security
    > model.


    The Windows Vista security model is working perfectly well thank you
    very much

    The shortcut deletion issue the others are talking about is because the
    desktop is made up of a Public Desktop and a Personal Desktop. In
    beta2 users don't have rights to modify the public/common desktop area
    - hence the series of prompts to confirm deletion after the process
    gets it permissions elevated from user to admin/root.

    Also if you wanted to you could setup the ACLs so you could create
    something but not delete it

    Regards
    Nathan
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 14, 2006
    #12
  13. Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > >> A user should be able to delete ANYTHING on their desktop - absolutely and
    > >> without question!
    > >>
    > >> After all - whose desktop is it?
    > >>
    > >> The user should have full control over their desktop.

    > >
    > > Not neccessarily.
    > >
    > > A user doesn't have to be the PCs owner.

    >
    > A User is NOT the computer's owner - in the sense that a User is merely
    > someone who uses the PC as a productivity tool. A User cannot make any
    > changes to the configuration or operation of the computer in any way other
    > than changes to their personal desktop settings. Only the Root user can
    > make changes to the system - or users who have been specifically delegated
    > ability from the root user (sudo).
    >
    > > If you work for me and I pay your wages, I'll have your PC desktop
    > > setup anyway that my business likes

    >
    > Incorrect.


    You're telling your boss that they're incorrect. That I can't setup my
    business PCs they way that I want them?

    Well, you are fired. See ya

    > The desktop is the *user's* working space. If you want optimal
    > productivity out of your staff you provide them with an appropriate
    > working space.
    >
    > And that means if a user wants a clean desktop and access to everything
    > from the K menu, then so beit.
    >
    > If the user wants everything accessible from the desktop and only minimal
    > stuff on the K menu, then so beit!
    >
    > How a user sets up their desktop does not alter how the computer will
    > work, or how any other user can user their desktop. And the Root user can
    > still set up the default desktop anyway they please.


    My business, my PCs, my infrastructure, if I want to lockdown my PC
    that you are using, that I am paying you to use then I will. If you
    don't like this then go work somewhere else.

    > The only time you would want to completely lock down a user's desktop is
    > when you're using the desktop as a kiosk - and yes in that circumstance of
    > course you would want the user to be incapable of making any changes -
    > because the users in those circumstances most likely be members of the
    > public rather than proper users with accounts of their own.


    Well in the real world I know of many organisations here in NZ that
    lock down "task worker" desktops so they can't be altered - no
    modifying shortcuts, desktops, screen savers, desktop backgronds, icons
    on the desktop, start menus etc etc. These machines are not Kiosks,
    they are not used my members of the public, but by employees of the
    employer.

    Regards
    Nathan
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 14, 2006
    #13

  14. > Incorrect.
    >
    > The desktop is the *user's* working space. If you want optimal
    > productivity out of your staff you provide them with an appropriate
    > working space.
    >
    > And that means if a user wants a clean desktop and access to everything
    > from the K menu, then so beit.
    >
    > If the user wants everything accessible from the desktop and only minimal
    > stuff on the K menu, then so beit!
    >
    > How a user sets up their desktop does not alter how the computer will
    > work, or how any other user can user their desktop. And the Root user can
    > still set up the default desktop anyway they please.
    >
    > The only time you would want to completely lock down a user's desktop is
    > when you're using the desktop as a kiosk - and yes in that circumstance of
    > course you would want the user to be incapable of making any changes -
    > because the users in those circumstances most likely be members of the
    > public rather than proper users with accounts of their own.
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    Dont you mean the 'start menu'
    Andrew Lambert, Jun 14, 2006
    #14
  15. GraB

    Shane Guest

    Allistar wrote:

    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:21:35 +0000, Steven H wrote:
    >>
    >>> if that shortcut is a 'all user' one no 'user' should be able to delete
    >>> it iirc its the same in XP

    >>
    >> A user should be able to delete ANYTHING on their desktop - absolutely
    >> and without question!

    >
    > Surely that would depend on the permissions of the file.
    >
    > A file that has 440 permissions on a users desktop cannot be deleted by
    > them.
    >
    >> After all - whose desktop is it?
    >>
    >> The user should have full control over their desktop.
    >>
    >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    >
    > Allistar.


    Add ownership, and the sticky bit, and the end user has files on his or her
    desktop that they are completely powerless to remove


    --
    Rule 6: There is no rule 6

    Blog: http://shanes.dyndns.org
    Shane, Jun 14, 2006
    #15
  16. On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:50:49 +1200, Allistar wrote:

    >> A user should be able to delete ANYTHING on their desktop - absolutely and
    >> without question!

    >
    > Surely that would depend on the permissions of the file.


    AND on who owns the file.

    But what on earth is a file that belongs to some other user doing on a
    person's desktop, and how could it get there?


    > A file that has 440 permissions on a users desktop cannot be deleted by
    > them.


    Certainly that is true - unless the user changed the permissions.

    Why should the Root user be puting undeletable files onto a User's desktop?


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Jun 14, 2006
    #16
  17. On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:50:20 +1200, Andrew Lambert wrote:

    >> The only time you would want to completely lock down a user's desktop is
    >> when you're using the desktop as a kiosk - and yes in that circumstance of
    >> course you would want the user to be incapable of making any changes -
    >> because the users in those circumstances most likely be members of the
    >> public rather than proper users with accounts of their own.

    >
    > Dont you mean the 'start menu'


    No - I mean the user's desktop.

    If you want the user to be able to do nothing except to run a particular
    application, then simply lock down EVERYTHING on the desktop.

    And besides, KDE does not have a "start menu"


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Jun 14, 2006
    #17
  18. On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:41:20 -0700, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    >> A User is NOT the computer's owner - in the sense that a User is merely
    >> someone who uses the PC as a productivity tool. A User cannot make any
    >> changes to the configuration or operation of the computer in any way other
    >> than changes to their personal desktop settings. Only the Root user can
    >> make changes to the system - or users who have been specifically delegated
    >> ability from the root user (sudo).
    >>
    >> > If you work for me and I pay your wages, I'll have your PC desktop
    >> > setup anyway that my business likes

    >>
    >> Incorrect.

    >
    > You're telling your boss that they're incorrect. That I can't setup my
    > business PCs they way that I want them?


    See how clueless Micro$oft employees are!


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Jun 14, 2006
    #18
  19. Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:50:49 +1200, Allistar wrote:
    >
    >>> A user should be able to delete ANYTHING on their desktop - absolutely and
    >>> without question!

    >> Surely that would depend on the permissions of the file.

    >
    > AND on who owns the file.
    >
    > But what on earth is a file that belongs to some other user doing on a
    > person's desktop, and how could it get there?
    >

    Shared desktop
    >
    >> A file that has 440 permissions on a users desktop cannot be deleted by
    >> them.

    >
    > Certainly that is true - unless the user changed the permissions.
    >
    > Why should the Root user be puting undeletable files onto a User's desktop?
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >

    again, Shared desktop
    Andrew Lambert, Jun 14, 2006
    #19
  20. Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > >> A User is NOT the computer's owner - in the sense that a User is merely
    > >> someone who uses the PC as a productivity tool. A User cannot make any
    > >> changes to the configuration or operation of the computer in any way other
    > >> than changes to their personal desktop settings. Only the Root user can
    > >> make changes to the system - or users who have been specifically delegated
    > >> ability from the root user (sudo).
    > >>
    > >> > If you work for me and I pay your wages, I'll have your PC desktop
    > >> > setup anyway that my business likes
    > >>
    > >> Incorrect.

    > >
    > > You're telling your boss that they're incorrect. That I can't setup my
    > > business PCs they way that I want them?

    >
    > See how clueless Micro$oft employees are!


    It's not clueless to listen to your employer, they are paying your
    wages. If you don't like it you don't have to work there.

    Do you think you're making sense?

    Or am I just stupid, because I just really don't see the point
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 15, 2006
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. morrison22

    Dropped Wireless Connections wrt350n & Intel 3945, Vista

    morrison22, Mar 14, 2007, in forum: Wireless Networking
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    928
    Axel Hammerschmidt
    Apr 3, 2007
  2. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Micro$oft slips yet another feature out of M$ Windows Vista

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 12, 2006, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    30
    Views:
    707
    Peter
    Mar 15, 2006
  3. Mutlley
    Replies:
    108
    Views:
    1,287
    jasen
    Sep 2, 2006
  4. Bluuuue Rajah

    Another useful feature for your news client

    Bluuuue Rajah, Dec 24, 2008, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    12
    Views:
    646
    stermen
    May 6, 2009
  5. richard

    yet another google new feature added

    richard, Nov 10, 2010, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    410
    Meat Plow
    Nov 11, 2010
Loading...

Share This Page