(Another) example of how Patents/IP laws Block Innovation

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by steve, Aug 13, 2005.

  1. steve

    steve Guest

    The funny thing here is that MP3-plyers have been around for years longer
    than either of these companies patent application.

    Mine is over 3 years old and wasn't made by either of these companies.

    Just one more example of how intellectual property laws - these days - are
    being used by the unscrupulous to block innovation and attempt monopolise
    new technologies they didn't actually invent.

    ****************************************************************************

    http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=168601205&tid=5978

    Did Microsoft Invent The iPod? Aug. 12, 2005

    According to the U.S. Patent Office, patent applications that cover much of
    the technology associated with the iPod were submitted by Microsoft.

    If you think Apple Computer's Steve Jobs invented the technology behind the
    Apple iPod, don't bet your 60GB, 15,000-song model on it.

    According to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, patent applications that
    cover much of the technology associated with the iPod were submitted by
    Microsoft, which has been on a patents tear recently filing thousands of
    patents.

    If the patents hold up on appeal, Apple could be accountable for royalties
    on the spectacularly successful iPod. Jobs and others associated with Apple
    filed for patents covering the technology in October, 2002, but that
    application was rejected by the patent office last month. AppleInsider.com
    reported the rejection this week.

    Apple won't take the matter lying down. "Apple invented and publicly
    released the iPod interface before the Microsoft patent application cited
    by the (patent) examiner was filed," said an Apple spokesperson in a
    statement. Apple also noted that the firm has received other patents for
    technology relating to the iPod and in addition has other patents pending
    on the iPod.

    The documents in the Patent Office do not mention the iPod by name. The
    documents describe a "portable, pocked-sized multimedia asset player" that
    can manipulate MP3 music files.

    Microsoft's claim appears to center on the work of John C. Platt, a senior
    researcher in the Knowledge Tools Group at Microsoft Research. According to
    media reports, on behalf of Microsoft, Platt applied for the patent in May
    of 2002 some five months before the Apple filing. Platt's application was
    rejected in December 2004, but he amended it in April of this year and
    Microsoft's pending patent was subsequently approved.

    According to a citation on "Platt's home page, he and other colleagues at
    Microsoft developed a paper in the 2001-2002 timeframe discussing AutoDJ,
    "a system for automatically generating music playlists based on one or more
    seed songs selected by a user."

    Apple's iPod dominates the MP3 player market. The NPD Group has reported
    that Apple has shipped nearly 22 million iPods. Predictions that Apple's
    strength in the MP3 market would slip haven't borne out, and Apple accounts
    for about 75 percent of MP3 players sold in the U.S.

    So far, Microsoft hasn't been able to dent the Apple iPod dominance,
    although the software giant has said it is working on music playing devices
    that it plans to introduce later this year.
     
    steve, Aug 13, 2005
    #1
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  2. steve

    Peter Guest

    steve wrote:
    > "Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    > Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was filed,"


    just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.


    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 13, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <>
    wrote:

    >steve wrote:
    >> "Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    >> Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was filed,"

    >
    >just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    >mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.


    Oh really
    how is that
    apple filed their own patents on the ipod
    apple must also be crooked and all the rest wouldnt you agree
     
    FreedomChooser, Aug 13, 2005
    #3
  4. Hi there,

    FreedomChooser wrote:
    > On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>steve wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    >>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was filed,"

    >>
    >>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    >>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.

    >
    >
    > Oh really
    > how is that
    > apple filed their own patents on the ipod
    > apple must also be crooked and all the rest wouldnt you agree


    Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they
    have actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are
    filing patents for ideas, in the hope that someone else will
    want to pay them the royalties to actually implement those
    ideas. That gives them a revenue stream, but if no-one wants
    to use the idea then everyone misses out on whatever that
    idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence the
    stifling of innovation bit...

    I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you
    do seem to hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?

    --
    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
    Anyone wishing to email me directly can remove the obvious
    spamblocker, and replace it with t p g <dot> c o m <dot> a u

    Software patents are killing YOUR freedom, STOP THEM NOW!
    http://swpat.ffii.org/ http://nosoftwarepatents.com/
     
    Chris Wilkinson, Aug 14, 2005
    #4
  5. On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
    <> wrote:

    >Hi there,
    >
    >FreedomChooser wrote:
    >> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>steve wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    >>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was filed,"
    >>>
    >>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    >>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.

    >>
    >>
    >> Oh really
    >> how is that
    >> apple filed their own patents on the ipod
    >> apple must also be crooked and all the rest wouldnt you agree

    >
    >Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they
    >have actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are
    >filing patents for ideas, in the hope that someone else will
    >want to pay them the royalties to actually implement those
    >ideas. That gives them a revenue stream, but if no-one wants
    >to use the idea then everyone misses out on whatever that
    >idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence the
    >stifling of innovation bit...


    bullcrap
    If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had
    the idea before apple thought it up
    Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
    people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to
    stop MS Windows

    >
    >I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you
    >do seem to hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?


    oh yeah I do have an agenda
    Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth
    every time someone mentions companies like Microsoft
    Its so entertainig watching you ideologoues push you blatant biased
    cant as if it were objective truth

    The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
    socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form
     
    FreedomChooser, Aug 14, 2005
    #5
  6. steve

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:

    > The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
    > socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form


    <sniggaaaarr>

    Nice. ;o)

    Tell another joke.


    Bling Bling

    --
    Fink: "The Linux market is growing 30% to 35% a year."
     
    Bling-Bling, Aug 14, 2005
    #6
  7. steve

    Dumbkiwi Guest

    On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:

    > On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Hi there,
    >>
    >>FreedomChooser wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>steve wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    >>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
    >>>>>filed,"
    >>>>
    >>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    >>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Oh really
    >>> how is that
    >>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
    >>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree

    >>
    >>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
    >>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
    >>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
    >>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
    >>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
    >>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence the
    >>stifling of innovation bit...

    >
    > bullcrap
    > If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
    > idea before apple thought it up
    > Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
    > people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to stop
    > MS Windows
    >
    >
    >>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
    >>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?

    >
    > oh yeah I do have an agenda
    > Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth every
    > time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig watching
    > you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were objective truth
    >
    > The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
    > socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form


    Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    Microsoft = monopoly

    Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?
     
    Dumbkiwi, Aug 14, 2005
    #7
  8. On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:43:04 +1200, Bling-Bling
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
    >
    >> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
    >> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form

    >
    ><sniggaaaarr>
    >
    >Nice. ;o)
    >
    >Tell another joke.


    sidestep noted
     
    FreedomChooser, Aug 14, 2005
    #8
  9. On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:36:15 +1200, Dumbkiwi <>
    wrote:

    >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Hi there,
    >>>
    >>>FreedomChooser wrote:
    >>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>steve wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    >>>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
    >>>>>>filed,"
    >>>>>
    >>>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    >>>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Oh really
    >>>> how is that
    >>>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
    >>>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree
    >>>
    >>>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
    >>>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
    >>>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
    >>>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
    >>>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
    >>>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence the
    >>>stifling of innovation bit...

    >>
    >> bullcrap
    >> If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
    >> idea before apple thought it up
    >> Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
    >> people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to stop
    >> MS Windows
    >>
    >>
    >>>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
    >>>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?

    >>
    >> oh yeah I do have an agenda
    >> Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth every
    >> time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig watching
    >> you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were objective truth
    >>
    >> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
    >> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form

    >
    >Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    > Microsoft = monopoly
    >
    >Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?


    linux is not about free market
    its about socialist opposed to captialism in all its forms
    its no wonder linux is so loved by the greens party and most of its
    proponents here are socialists

    Microsoft is not a monopoly
     
    FreedomChooser, Aug 14, 2005
    #9
  10. steve

    Peter Guest

    Dumbkiwi wrote:
    >
    > Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    > Microsoft = monopoly
    >
    > Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?


    Quite right, OSS is all about individual choice, individual freedoms. MS
    seeks to deny user choice by dictating a single OS and deliberately
    disrupting protocols and formats (eg html, file formats, etc).

    OSS has low barrier to entry.
    MS is hell bent on raising enormous barriers to entry (eg their massive
    drive on bogus patents).


    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 14, 2005
    #10
  11. On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:08:22 +1200, Peter <>
    wrote:

    >Dumbkiwi wrote:
    >>
    >> Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    >> Microsoft = monopoly
    >>
    >> Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

    >
    >Quite right, OSS is all about individual choice, individual freedoms. MS
    >seeks to deny user choice by dictating a single OS and deliberately
    >disrupting protocols and formats (eg html, file formats, etc).


    No
    OSS is vehicle of choice to socialist who despise captialism in all
    forms
    Specially big captialist companies like Microsoft

    Its funny how every OSS fanatic always mentions microsoft
    microsoft do not dicatate their OS they do not force people to buy it

    >OSS has low barrier to entry.


    false

    >MS is hell bent on raising enormous barriers to entry (eg their massive
    >drive on bogus patents).


    Lots of companys hold these patents
    IBM & apple hold a lot betwen them
    so what
     
    FreedomChooser, Aug 15, 2005
    #11
  12. steve

    Dumbkiwi Guest

    On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:19:02 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:

    > On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:36:15 +1200, Dumbkiwi <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Hi there,
    >>>>
    >>>>FreedomChooser wrote:
    >>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <>
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>steve wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    >>>>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
    >>>>>>>filed,"
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    >>>>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Oh really
    >>>>> how is that
    >>>>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
    >>>>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree
    >>>>
    >>>>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
    >>>>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
    >>>>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
    >>>>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
    >>>>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
    >>>>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence
    >>>>the stifling of innovation bit...
    >>>
    >>> bullcrap
    >>> If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
    >>> idea before apple thought it up
    >>> Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
    >>> people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to
    >>> stop MS Windows
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
    >>>>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?
    >>>
    >>> oh yeah I do have an agenda
    >>> Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth
    >>> every time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig
    >>> watching you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were
    >>> objective truth
    >>>
    >>> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
    >>> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form

    >>
    >>Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    >> Microsoft = monopoly
    >>
    >>Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

    >
    > linux is not about free market
    > its about socialist opposed to captialism in all its forms its no wonder
    > linux is so loved by the greens party and most of its proponents here are
    > socialists
    >
    > Microsoft is not a monopoly


    is too.
     
    Dumbkiwi, Aug 15, 2005
    #12
  13. On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:11:00 +1200, Dumbkiwi <>
    wrote:

    >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:19:02 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:36:15 +1200, Dumbkiwi <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
    >>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Hi there,
    >>>>>
    >>>>>FreedomChooser wrote:
    >>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <>
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>steve wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    >>>>>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
    >>>>>>>>filed,"
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    >>>>>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Oh really
    >>>>>> how is that
    >>>>>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
    >>>>>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
    >>>>>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
    >>>>>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
    >>>>>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
    >>>>>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
    >>>>>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence
    >>>>>the stifling of innovation bit...
    >>>>
    >>>> bullcrap
    >>>> If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
    >>>> idea before apple thought it up
    >>>> Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
    >>>> people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to
    >>>> stop MS Windows
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
    >>>>>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?
    >>>>
    >>>> oh yeah I do have an agenda
    >>>> Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth
    >>>> every time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig
    >>>> watching you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were
    >>>> objective truth
    >>>>
    >>>> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
    >>>> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form
    >>>
    >>>Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    >>> Microsoft = monopoly
    >>>
    >>>Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

    >>
    >> linux is not about free market
    >> its about socialist opposed to captialism in all its forms its no wonder
    >> linux is so loved by the greens party and most of its proponents here are
    >> socialists
    >>
    >> Microsoft is not a monopoly

    >
    >is too.


    you make the claim you prove it
     
    FreedomChooser, Aug 15, 2005
    #13
  14. steve

    Guest

    FreedomChooser wrote:
    > On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:11:00 +1200, Dumbkiwi <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:19:02 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:36:15 +1200, Dumbkiwi <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
    > >>>> <> wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>Hi there,
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>FreedomChooser wrote:
    > >>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <>
    > >>>>>> wrote:
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>steve wrote:
    > >>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    > >>>>>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
    > >>>>>>>>filed,"
    > >>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    > >>>>>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>> Oh really
    > >>>>>> how is that
    > >>>>>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
    > >>>>>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
    > >>>>>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
    > >>>>>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
    > >>>>>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
    > >>>>>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
    > >>>>>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence
    > >>>>>the stifling of innovation bit...
    > >>>>
    > >>>> bullcrap
    > >>>> If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
    > >>>> idea before apple thought it up
    > >>>> Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
    > >>>> people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to
    > >>>> stop MS Windows
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
    > >>>>>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?
    > >>>>
    > >>>> oh yeah I do have an agenda
    > >>>> Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth
    > >>>> every time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig
    > >>>> watching you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were
    > >>>> objective truth
    > >>>>
    > >>>> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
    > >>>> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form
    > >>>
    > >>>Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    > >>> Microsoft = monopoly
    > >>>
    > >>>Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?
    > >>
    > >> linux is not about free market
    > >> its about socialist opposed to captialism in all its forms its no wonder
    > >> linux is so loved by the greens party and most of its proponents here are
    > >> socialists
    > >>
    > >> Microsoft is not a monopoly

    > >
    > >is too.

    >
    > you make the claim you prove it


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft#Antitrust_problems
     
    , Aug 15, 2005
    #14
  15. steve

    AD. Guest

    On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:25:16 -0700, dmbkiwi wrote:

    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft#Antitrust_problems


    Wikipedia is part of the global socialist conspiracy of MS haters to
    destroy their ability to innovate!!!!

    MS needs your help! For the sake of freedom loving peoples everywhere,
    fight the commies who hate us for our way of life.

    Act now, before it is too late!

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Aug 15, 2005
    #15
  16. steve

    steve Guest

    Dumbkiwi wrote:

    > Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    > Microsoft = monopoly
    >
    > Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?


    It's sad isn't it?

    Guys like FreedomChooser always seem to back the un-democratic or
    monopolistic incumbent.....and declare they are backing freedom and
    democracy or "innovation".

    Orwell had these guys pegged: Slavery is Freedom in their world.
     
    steve, Aug 16, 2005
    #16
  17. On 15 Aug 2005 11:25:16 -0700, wrote:

    >
    >FreedomChooser wrote:
    >> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:11:00 +1200, Dumbkiwi <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:19:02 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:36:15 +1200, Dumbkiwi <> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
    >> >>>
    >> >>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
    >> >>>> <> wrote:
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>>>Hi there,
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>FreedomChooser wrote:
    >> >>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <>
    >> >>>>>> wrote:
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>>>steve wrote:
    >> >>>>>>>
    >> >>>>>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
    >> >>>>>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
    >> >>>>>>>>filed,"
    >> >>>>>>>
    >> >>>>>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
    >> >>>>>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>> Oh really
    >> >>>>>> how is that
    >> >>>>>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
    >> >>>>>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
    >> >>>>>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
    >> >>>>>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
    >> >>>>>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
    >> >>>>>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
    >> >>>>>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence
    >> >>>>>the stifling of innovation bit...
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> bullcrap
    >> >>>> If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
    >> >>>> idea before apple thought it up
    >> >>>> Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
    >> >>>> people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to
    >> >>>> stop MS Windows
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>>>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
    >> >>>>>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> oh yeah I do have an agenda
    >> >>>> Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth
    >> >>>> every time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig
    >> >>>> watching you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were
    >> >>>> objective truth
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
    >> >>>> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form
    >> >>>
    >> >>>Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    >> >>> Microsoft = monopoly
    >> >>>
    >> >>>Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?
    >> >>
    >> >> linux is not about free market
    >> >> its about socialist opposed to captialism in all its forms its no wonder
    >> >> linux is so loved by the greens party and most of its proponents here are
    >> >> socialists
    >> >>
    >> >> Microsoft is not a monopoly
    >> >
    >> >is too.

    >>
    >> you make the claim you prove it

    >
    >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft#Antitrust_problems


    does not say Ms is a monopoly
    the case found not that Ms was a monoply but that they excercised
    monopoly power

    IF MS was a monopoly there would be no Macintosh and no Linux
     
    FreedomChooser, Aug 16, 2005
    #17
  18. On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:56:35 +1200, steve
    <> wrote:

    >Dumbkiwi wrote:
    >
    >> Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    >> Microsoft = monopoly
    >>
    >> Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

    >
    >It's sad isn't it?
    >
    >Guys like FreedomChooser always seem to back the un-democratic or
    >monopolistic incumbent.....and declare they are backing freedom and
    >democracy or "innovation".
    >
    >Orwell had these guys pegged: Slavery is Freedom in their world.


    bullcrap
    The real agenda behind the open source movement is world wide
    communism

    communism and freedon are mutually exclusive
     
    FreedomChooser, Aug 16, 2005
    #18
  19. steve

    steve Guest

    FreedomChooser wrote:

    > On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:56:35 +1200, steve
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Dumbkiwi wrote:
    >>
    >>> Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    >>> Microsoft = monopoly
    >>>
    >>> Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

    >>
    >>It's sad isn't it?
    >>
    >>Guys like FreedomChooser always seem to back the un-democratic or
    >>monopolistic incumbent.....and declare they are backing freedom and
    >>democracy or "innovation".
    >>
    >>Orwell had these guys pegged: Slavery is Freedom in their world.

    >
    > bullcrap
    > The real agenda behind the open source movement is world wide
    > communism


    If that is true, then communism means empowering EVERYONE and providing
    loads of CHOICE.

    > communism and freedon are mutually exclusive


    It would appear you are exactly and completely wrong when it comes to
    comparing open source's incredible range of choice and diversity with
    Microsoft's monopoly.

    You certainly can't be accused of clear thinking on this one.
     
    steve, Aug 16, 2005
    #19
  20. steve

    Peter Guest

    steve wrote:
    > Dumbkiwi wrote:
    >> Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
    >> Microsoft = monopoly
    >> Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

    >
    > It's sad isn't it?
    > Guys like FreedomChooser always seem to back the un-democratic or
    > monopolistic incumbent.....and declare they are backing freedom and
    > democracy or "innovation".
    >
    > Orwell had these guys pegged: Slavery is Freedom in their world.


    Yes - it sounds like an emotional justification on their part.
    Objectively, OSS is all about individual freedoms and a free market
    environment, while the Microsoft approach is to use monopoly powers to deny
    individual freedom and create a single central control of the software
    industry. In this way, the Microsoft approach is very similar to the old
    central control regimes of communist, monarchy and religious states.

    Those claims that OSS is in some way communist are without any substance. I
    haven't seen any rational logic supporting that view - just vague slander
    and ad hominem attacks, which only illustrates the lack of substance to
    such views.

    However, you have to recognise that freedom of choice is a scary prospect to
    some people. Some find comfort in a nanny state with everything prescribed
    and where individuals don't have to think for themselves. Sort of like a
    security blanket.


    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 16, 2005
    #20
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