Another closed-source vendor bites the dust

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 6, 2007.

  1. Pegasus Mail has shut down
    <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    business model.

    Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 6, 2007
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Murray Symon Guest

    On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:01:55 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > Pegasus Mail has shut down
    > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    > multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    > business model.
    >
    > Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?



    What's with the "they"? - wasn't it wholly developed by local Kiwi David
    Harris? BTW, for a long time it was my email client of choice.

    I know that in the past David had expressed concern at the increasing
    complexity of "email" as a medium - well beyond the original KISS
    approach. I haven't yet looked into his reasons for this latest
    announcement.

    Murray.
    Murray Symon, Jan 6, 2007
    #2
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  3. On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:01:55 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    > multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    > business model.


    They weren't interested in porting Pegasus over to Linux.


    --
    Dianthus Mimulus

    Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
    http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/dsprgmnt.html#_Toc447960918
    Dianthus Mimulus, Jan 6, 2007
    #3
  4. In <> Dianthus Mimulus wrote:
    > On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:01:55 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even
    >> with multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a
    >> sustainable business model.

    >
    > They weren't interested in porting Pegasus over to Linux.


    Er, so if this free email program had been ported to Linux the extra
    customers also not paying anything would...?

    --
    * Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
    * PS/2 Mouse Adapter for vintage Apple II or Mac
    * SCART RGB cable for Apple IIGS
    Roger Johnstone, Jan 6, 2007
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Phil Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 6/01/07 2.01 p:
    > Pegasus Mail has shut down
    > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    > multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    > business model.
    >
    > Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?


    They didn't fail because they were closed-source (as you seem to imply),
    they failed because every computer and OS these days ships with a free
    (ie. no cost) email client that suits most users.

    Open or closed source has nothing to do with it.

    -Phil
    Phil, Jan 6, 2007
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:01:55 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> exclaimed:

    >Pegasus Mail has shut down
    ><http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    >multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    >business model.


    Yup, that's the way with free software - surprise, surprise, people
    don't make any money...

    >Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?


    Why bother?
    Fred Dagg, Jan 6, 2007
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > Pegasus Mail has shut down
    > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    > multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    > business model.
    >
    > Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?
    >

    It's not as easy as that. If there were a group ready to pick it up, it
    might work. Even open source needs a structure in place. You can't just
    plonk something on SourceForge and expect it to fly.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Jan 6, 2007
    #7
  8. On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:12:28 +0000, Roger Johnstone wrote:

    >> They weren't interested in porting Pegasus over to Linux.

    >
    > Er, so if this free email program had been ported to Linux the extra
    > customers also not paying anything would...?


    In case you hadn't noticed, your sentence is unfinished.


    --
    Dianthus Mimulus

    Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
    http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/dsprgmnt.html#_Toc447960918
    Dianthus Mimulus, Jan 6, 2007
    #8
  9. On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:18:14 +1300, Phil wrote:

    > They didn't fail because they were closed-source (as you seem to imply),
    > they failed because every computer and OS these days ships with a free
    > (ie. no cost) email client that suits most users.


    Let's all thank Micro$oft for killing Pagasus.


    --
    Dianthus Mimulus

    Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
    http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/dsprgmnt.html#_Toc447960918
    Dianthus Mimulus, Jan 6, 2007
    #9
  10. In message <459f2ba3$>, Enkidu wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> Pegasus Mail has shut down
    >> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    >> multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    >> business model.
    >>
    >> Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?

    >
    > It's not as easy as that. If there were a group ready to pick it up, it
    > might work. Even open source needs a structure in place. You can't just
    > plonk something on SourceForge and expect it to fly.


    You can't know until you try, can you?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 6, 2007
    #10
  11. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Blue Guest

    On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:59:55 +1300, Fred Dagg wrote:

    > Yup, that's the way with free software - surprise, surprise, people
    > don't make any money...


    Suprise for you they do.
    Blue, Jan 6, 2007
    #11
  12. In message <>, Phil wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 6/01/07 2.01 p:
    >
    >> Pegasus Mail has shut down
    >> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    >> multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    >> business model.
    >>
    >> Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?

    >
    > They didn't fail because they were closed-source (as you seem to imply),
    > they failed because every computer and OS these days ships with a free
    > (ie. no cost) email client that suits most users.
    >
    > Open or closed source has nothing to do with it.


    How many closed-source e-mail clients are still surviving? Eudora--funnily
    enough, switching to open source. Pegasus--now gone. Can you name any
    others? All that's left is Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express.

    By contrast, look at the number of open-source projects: Evolution,
    Thunderbird, Sylpheed, Kmail.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 6, 2007
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <459f2ba3$>, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>> Pegasus Mail has shut down
    >>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    >>> multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    >>> business model.
    >>>
    >>> Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?

    >> It's not as easy as that. If there were a group ready to pick it up, it
    >> might work. Even open source needs a structure in place. You can't just
    >> plonk something on SourceForge and expect it to fly.

    >
    > You can't know until you try, can you?
    >

    Indeed. I merely said "It's not as easy as that"...

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Jan 6, 2007
    #13
  14. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Bobs Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Phil wrote:
    >
    > > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 6/01/07 2.01 p:
    > >
    > >> Pegasus Mail has shut down
    > >> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    > >> multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    > >> business model.
    > >>
    > >> Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?

    > >
    > > They didn't fail because they were closed-source (as you seem to imply),
    > > they failed because every computer and OS these days ships with a free
    > > (ie. no cost) email client that suits most users.
    > >
    > > Open or closed source has nothing to do with it.

    >
    > How many closed-source e-mail clients are still surviving? Eudora--funnily
    > enough, switching to open source. Pegasus--now gone. Can you name any
    > others? All that's left is Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express.


    Novell Groupwise.

    >
    > By contrast, look at the number of open-source projects: Evolution,
    > Thunderbird, Sylpheed, Kmail.
    Bobs, Jan 6, 2007
    #14
  15. In <> Dianthus Mimulus wrote:
    > On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:12:28 +0000, Roger Johnstone wrote:
    >
    >>> They weren't interested in porting Pegasus over to Linux.

    >>
    >> Er, so if this free email program had been ported to Linux the extra
    >> customers also not paying anything would...?

    >
    > In case you hadn't noticed, your sentence is unfinished.


    In case you haven't noticed, you didn't answer the question.

    --
    * Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
    * PS/2 Mouse Adapter for vintage Apple II or Mac
    * SCART RGB cable for Apple IIGS
    Roger Johnstone, Jan 6, 2007
    #15
  16. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Bobs wrote:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In message <>, Phil wrote:
    >>
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 6/01/07 2.01 p:
    >>>
    >>>> Pegasus Mail has shut down
    >>>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>.
    >>>> Even with multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't
    >>>> build a sustainable business model.
    >>>>
    >>>> Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they
    >>>> got to lose?
    >>> They didn't fail because they were closed-source (as you seem to
    >>> imply), they failed because every computer and OS these days
    >>> ships with a free (ie. no cost) email client that suits most
    >>> users.
    >>>
    >>> Open or closed source has nothing to do with it.

    >> How many closed-source e-mail clients are still surviving?
    >> Eudora--funnily enough, switching to open source. Pegasus--now
    >> gone. Can you name any others? All that's left is Microsoft Outlook
    >> and Outlook Express.

    >
    > Novell Groupwise.
    >

    No, it's the user that survive Groupwise.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Jan 6, 2007
    #16
  17. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:38:36 +1300, Blue <>
    exclaimed:

    >On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:59:55 +1300, Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >> Yup, that's the way with free software - surprise, surprise, people
    >> don't make any money...

    >
    >Suprise for you they do.


    Very few.
    Fred Dagg, Jan 6, 2007
    #17
  18. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:41:38 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> exclaimed:

    >In message <>, Phil wrote:
    >
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 6/01/07 2.01 p:
    >>
    >>> Pegasus Mail has shut down
    >>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    >>> multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    >>> business model.
    >>>
    >>> Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?

    >>
    >> They didn't fail because they were closed-source (as you seem to imply),
    >> they failed because every computer and OS these days ships with a free
    >> (ie. no cost) email client that suits most users.
    >>
    >> Open or closed source has nothing to do with it.

    >
    >How many closed-source e-mail clients are still surviving? Eudora--funnily
    >enough, switching to open source. Pegasus--now gone. Can you name any
    >others? All that's left is Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express.
    >

    Yup, that's all most people use.
    Fred Dagg, Jan 6, 2007
    #18
  19. On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:42:40 +0000, Roger Johnstone wrote:

    >>> Er, so if this free email program had been ported to Linux the extra
    >>> customers also not paying anything would...?

    >>
    >> In case you hadn't noticed, your sentence is unfinished.

    >
    > In case you haven't noticed, you didn't answer the question.


    There wasn't a question - there was a half-finished statement.


    --
    Dianthus Mimulus

    Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
    http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/dsprgmnt.html#_Toc447960918
    Dianthus Mimulus, Jan 6, 2007
    #19
  20. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    David Empson Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    > In message <>, Phil wrote:
    >
    > > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 6/01/07 2.01 p:
    > >
    > >> Pegasus Mail has shut down
    > >> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/05/pegasus_free_email/>. Even with
    > >> multiple millions of customers, it still couldn't build a sustainable
    > >> business model.
    > >>
    > >> Why don't they just open-source the software? What have they got to lose?

    > >
    > > They didn't fail because they were closed-source (as you seem to imply),
    > > they failed because every computer and OS these days ships with a free
    > > (ie. no cost) email client that suits most users.
    > >
    > > Open or closed source has nothing to do with it.

    >
    > How many closed-source e-mail clients are still surviving? Eudora--funnily
    > enough, switching to open source. Pegasus--now gone. Can you name any
    > others? All that's left is Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express.


    I'm not familiar enough with Windows e-mail clients to comment on them.
    Does Lotus Notes count as an e-mail client?

    Microsoft has basically made in uneconomical for anyone else to develop
    a commercial mail client for Windows, since Outlook Express is good
    enough for most people (and comes with the operating system), and
    Outlook owns the larger scale business market. Same situation as with
    web browsers - all the commercial browsers are dead, because Microsoft
    killed the market by giving away Internet Explorer for free.

    In that environment, only open source products can survive. This isn't
    because open source is inherently better than closed source. It is
    because a monopoly squashed all the competition, and nobody can make
    money by selling an e-mail client or web browser, because it is too hard
    to convince potential customers to buy a product when they are handed
    one for free. As open source mail clients and web browsers get better,
    this increases the disincentive to buy a commercial product, as there is
    likely to be a free one which is good enough and which has the desired
    set of features.

    On the Mac, Apple Mail is supplied with Mac OS X, and it is roughly
    equivalent to Outlook Express. It is good enough for the average user
    who doesn't want too many bells and whistles. It is also killing off all
    the low-end e-mail software. Only high end commercial e-mail clients
    with advanced features are surviving.

    On the Mac, I'm aware of Gyazmail and Mailsmith, but I'm not very
    familiar with them. Microsoft supplies Entourage as part of Office for
    the Mac. It is the rough equivalent of Outlook. I gather it is missing
    some rather major features of Outlook (but is a lot more powerful than
    Outlook Express or Apple Mail).

    I use Eudora, and I paid for it (a few years ago). I'm waiting to see
    what happens with the open source version before deciding what to do
    next. For now, I'm happy with the final version of Eudora. I haven't
    investigated the alternatives, but Apple Mail isn't good enough for my
    needs.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Jan 6, 2007
    #20
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