.. and now power supply advice wanted!

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ~misfit~, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    So I got an HD7770 and the PSU in the Dell T3400 isn't up to powering it (2
    x BSOD = time to pull it out!) and it appears that the issues that have been
    plaguing me with my main heavy iron are down to sagging PSU rails -
    something that has likely been causing problems on-and-off for a couple of
    years. :-/

    So I'm in need of a new >500W PSU at an affordable price, a good, reliable
    unit that isn't going to cost my other arm and leg. The unit I'm replacing
    that is flakey is a 700W AcBel. I'd need similar wattage as the CPU is a
    QX9650 quad core 3GHz, I'll be running the HD7770 (up to 100W) and may one
    day need a thirstier graphics card - plus I like headroom. Electronic
    components last much longer if they're only being used at 60% or their rated
    capacity or so.

    Informed advice wanted please. From experience I've learned that it's no
    good reading US sites about PSUs as it's rare that we have access to the
    same models as they review - and what's worse is there's quite a bit of
    re-badging with PSUs.

    So if anyone has experience with a current model that fits the bill (and
    perhaps a site selling it) I'd like to hear it.

    Again, thanks in advance. I'm getting quite out-of-touch w/r/t current
    hardware.
    --
    </Shaun>

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).
    ~misfit~, Feb 7, 2014
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. ~misfit~

    Gordon Guest

    On 2014-02-07, ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    > So I got an HD7770 and the PSU in the Dell T3400 isn't up to powering it (2
    > x BSOD = time to pull it out!) and it appears that the issues that have been
    > plaguing me with my main heavy iron are down to sagging PSU rails -
    > something that has likely been causing problems on-and-off for a couple of
    > years. :-/
    >
    > So I'm in need of a new >500W PSU at an affordable price, a good, reliable
    > unit that isn't going to cost my other arm and leg. The unit I'm replacing
    > that is flakey is a 700W AcBel. I'd need similar wattage as the CPU is a
    > QX9650 quad core 3GHz, I'll be running the HD7770 (up to 100W) and may one
    > day need a thirstier graphics card - plus I like headroom. Electronic
    > components last much longer if they're only being used at 60% or their rated
    > capacity or so.


    However, what kind of rating is that? I seen a 202 HP engine that you would
    need a large truck to transport. This engine, ran 24/7 close to this power
    output for day after day and yawned at the thought of an rebuild.





    >
    > Informed advice wanted please.


    The latest issue of APC (the magazine) has an article entitled, Performance
    gaming for under $900

    They picked a Antec NEO520C ECO 520 power supply.

    The article says that one should never skimp on the power supply.

    Their system has GTX760 or HD7870 video cards.
    Gordon, Feb 8, 2014
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs EMB wrote:
    > On 7/02/2014 9:51 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> So if anyone has experience with a current model that fits the bill
    >> (and perhaps a site selling it) I'd like to hear it.

    >
    > David's PC with an i5, HD7770, 16GB and a couple of drives in it is
    > rocking along happily with one of these:
    >
    > http://pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=PSUCLM4550


    Thanks for that, it looks quite affordable too. I'm just waiting to see how
    a few things shake out and then I might order one.

    > BTW - steer well clear of anything Aywun branded.


    Cheers. Yeah, when it comes to PSUs I like a recognisable name brand. handy
    to know that Aywun is rubbish.

    Best,
    --
    </Shaun>

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).
    ~misfit~, Feb 8, 2014
    #3
  4. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gordon wrote:
    > On 2014-02-07, ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    >> So I got an HD7770 and the PSU in the Dell T3400 isn't up to
    >> powering it (2 x BSOD = time to pull it out!) and it appears that
    >> the issues that have been plaguing me with my main heavy iron are
    >> down to sagging PSU rails - something that has likely been causing
    >> problems on-and-off for a couple of years. :-/
    >>
    >> So I'm in need of a new >500W PSU at an affordable price, a good,
    >> reliable unit that isn't going to cost my other arm and leg. The
    >> unit I'm replacing that is flakey is a 700W AcBel. I'd need similar
    >> wattage as the CPU is a QX9650 quad core 3GHz, I'll be running the
    >> HD7770 (up to 100W) and may one day need a thirstier graphics card -
    >> plus I like headroom. Electronic components last much longer if
    >> they're only being used at 60% or their rated capacity or so.

    >
    > However, what kind of rating is that? I seen a 202 HP engine that you
    > would need a large truck to transport. This engine, ran 24/7 close to
    > this power output for day after day and yawned at the thought of an
    > rebuild.
    >>
    >> Informed advice wanted please.

    >
    > The latest issue of APC (the magazine) has an article entitled,
    > Performance gaming for under $900
    >
    > They picked a Antec NEO520C ECO 520 power supply.


    OK, thanks.

    > The article says that one should never skimp on the power supply.


    I agree - the PSU I'm replacing wasn't exactly cheap but it seems it's still
    in need of replacement. At least that's the most benign mode of failure for
    a PSU (data corruption due to rails sagging when writing to HDD).

    > Their system has GTX760 or HD7870 video cards.


    Cheers,
    --
    </Shaun>

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).
    ~misfit~, Feb 8, 2014
    #4
  5. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs EMB wrote:
    > On 8/02/2014 10:03 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs EMB wrote:
    >>> On 7/02/2014 9:51 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> So if anyone has experience with a current model that fits the bill
    >>>> (and perhaps a site selling it) I'd like to hear it.
    >>>
    >>> David's PC with an i5, HD7770, 16GB and a couple of drives in it is
    >>> rocking along happily with one of these:
    >>>
    >>> http://pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=PSUCLM4550

    >>
    >> Thanks for that, it looks quite affordable too.

    >
    > That was the main criteria when David bought it - research at the time
    > showed it to be ok from a specs and quality POV.


    Great - it's always good when two people can benefit from the same research.
    ;)
    --
    </Shaun>

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).
    ~misfit~, Feb 8, 2014
    #5
  6. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs EMB wrote:
    >> On 8/02/2014 10:03 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs EMB wrote:
    >>>> On 7/02/2014 9:51 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So if anyone has experience with a current model that fits the
    >>>>> bill (and perhaps a site selling it) I'd like to hear it.
    >>>>
    >>>> David's PC with an i5, HD7770, 16GB and a couple of drives in it is
    >>>> rocking along happily with one of these:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=PSUCLM4550
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for that, it looks quite affordable too.

    >>
    >> That was the main criteria when David bought it - research at the
    >> time showed it to be ok from a specs and quality POV.

    >
    > Great - it's always good when two people can benefit from the same
    > research. ;)


    As funds are currently a little low I've put one of these at the top of my
    shopping list (before food and toilet paper <g>) and will get one as soon as
    I can.

    I borrowed a 500W PSU for a short time and it's now running my QX9650 rig
    with the HD7770 quite well. It seems that all of the little glitches that
    I've had on-and-off over the years but hadn't been able to completely
    eliminate can now be put squarely at the feet of the PoS AcBel 700W PSU
    (Product No. ATX-700CA-AB8FB, Model No. PC6024) that's been in the PC from
    new.

    Damn! All this time when I've had occasional glitches I've thought that the
    overclock might have been too high... Or there were too many HDDs in there
    on the one rail (it claims 3 x 12V rails)... Or that the RAM wasn't
    seated..... I barely considered that it might be down to the high-wattage,
    not cheap PSU made by a company who used to make the OEM PSUs for IBM not so
    long ago!

    Thanks again.

    LOL, I've got an issue with the resolution in the game I play now. I've
    posted it to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (after getting no joy in the
    Path of Exile forums). I may as well post it here as well - you never know
    your luck.... ;)

    Cheers,
    --
    </Shaun>

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).
    ~misfit~, Feb 9, 2014
    #6
  7. In article <ld4s10$qi5$>,
    says...
    >
    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gordon wrote:
    > > On 2014-02-07, ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    > >> So I got an HD7770 and the PSU in the Dell T3400 isn't up to
    > >> powering it (2 x BSOD = time to pull it out!) and it appears that
    > >> the issues that have been plaguing me with my main heavy iron are
    > >> down to sagging PSU rails - something that has likely been causing
    > >> problems on-and-off for a couple of years. :-/
    > >>
    > >> So I'm in need of a new >500W PSU at an affordable price, a good,
    > >> reliable unit that isn't going to cost my other arm and leg. The
    > >> unit I'm replacing that is flakey is a 700W AcBel. I'd need similar
    > >> wattage as the CPU is a QX9650 quad core 3GHz, I'll be running the
    > >> HD7770 (up to 100W) and may one day need a thirstier graphics card -
    > >> plus I like headroom. Electronic components last much longer if
    > >> they're only being used at 60% or their rated capacity or so.

    > >
    > > However, what kind of rating is that? I seen a 202 HP engine that you
    > > would need a large truck to transport. This engine, ran 24/7 close to
    > > this power output for day after day and yawned at the thought of an
    > > rebuild.
    > >>
    > >> Informed advice wanted please.

    > >
    > > The latest issue of APC (the magazine) has an article entitled,
    > > Performance gaming for under $900
    > >
    > > They picked a Antec NEO520C ECO 520 power supply.

    >
    > OK, thanks.
    >
    > > The article says that one should never skimp on the power supply.

    >
    > I agree - the PSU I'm replacing wasn't exactly cheap but it seems it's still
    > in need of replacement. At least that's the most benign mode of failure for
    > a PSU (data corruption due to rails sagging when writing to HDD).
    >
    > > Their system has GTX760 or HD7870 video cards.

    >
    > Cheers,


    I recently started to have power problems with my old 550W Truepower
    Antec, and so I did a bit of research, and I ended up with this Seasonic
    http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=412787

    Apparently Seasonic make a lot of high end (gamer/enthusiast-targetted)
    PSU for many other brands, but also market under their own name with a
    comparatively low profile. I'm very happy with mine so far, by now it
    runs a Geforce 780 since last month without the slightest glitch.
    Clearly, at ~$300 this is not a cheapie, it probably pays to look at
    reviews of whatever other model is under consideration and compare
    stats. Power consumption and efficiency were clearly a consideration for
    me, since my box only gets turned off for 1/2 a day once a fortnight or
    so.
    There are specialist review sites out there that show various curves for
    the behaviour of different psu, which gives one a good basis for
    comparison. 's what I based my final choice on over my previously
    favoured brands of Enermax and Antec.

    h.t.h., -P.


    ---
    This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
    http://www.avast.com
    Peter Huebner, Feb 15, 2014
    #7
  8. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Peter Huebner wrote:
    > In article <ld4s10$qi5$>,
    > says...
    >>
    >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gordon wrote:
    >>> On 2014-02-07, ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    >>>> So I got an HD7770 and the PSU in the Dell T3400 isn't up to
    >>>> powering it (2 x BSOD = time to pull it out!) and it appears that
    >>>> the issues that have been plaguing me with my main heavy iron are
    >>>> down to sagging PSU rails - something that has likely been causing
    >>>> problems on-and-off for a couple of years. :-/
    >>>>
    >>>> So I'm in need of a new >500W PSU at an affordable price, a good,
    >>>> reliable unit that isn't going to cost my other arm and leg. The
    >>>> unit I'm replacing that is flakey is a 700W AcBel. I'd need similar
    >>>> wattage as the CPU is a QX9650 quad core 3GHz, I'll be running the
    >>>> HD7770 (up to 100W) and may one day need a thirstier graphics card
    >>>> - plus I like headroom. Electronic components last much longer if
    >>>> they're only being used at 60% or their rated capacity or so.
    >>>
    >>> However, what kind of rating is that? I seen a 202 HP engine that
    >>> you would need a large truck to transport. This engine, ran 24/7
    >>> close to this power output for day after day and yawned at the
    >>> thought of an rebuild.
    >>>>
    >>>> Informed advice wanted please.
    >>>
    >>> The latest issue of APC (the magazine) has an article entitled,
    >>> Performance gaming for under $900
    >>>
    >>> They picked a Antec NEO520C ECO 520 power supply.

    >>
    >> OK, thanks.
    >>
    >>> The article says that one should never skimp on the power supply.

    >>
    >> I agree - the PSU I'm replacing wasn't exactly cheap but it seems
    >> it's still in need of replacement. At least that's the most benign
    >> mode of failure for a PSU (data corruption due to rails sagging when
    >> writing to HDD).
    >>
    >>> Their system has GTX760 or HD7870 video cards.

    >>
    >> Cheers,

    >
    > I recently started to have power problems with my old 550W Truepower
    > Antec, and so I did a bit of research, and I ended up with this
    > Seasonic
    > http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=412787


    Thanks for the reply. That's a mighty nice looking PSU - Seasonic sticks in
    my mind from the days when I used to read a lot more hardware reviews, when
    I was more actively building computers so needed to be informed. They always
    did well in tests. Depending on the model in the top 60 - 95% of PSUs
    tested.

    However that's a bit rich for my blood. After EMBs reply regarding the
    CoolerMaster I looked at their range, then at Ascent as they're where I
    usually buy my gear - and ended up with this one;

    http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=418191

    PB Tech had it too but at a higher price than Ascent. I decided to spend a
    litle more of the bank's money and get one with a bit more power and a
    5-year warranty

    I emailed them first and told them it's a QX9650 with four RAM sticks, two
    optical drives and up to four HDDs - one fixed Velociraptor and three SATA
    bays that have mainly 2TB HDDs swapped in and out of them. Often all bays
    are full and files being copied for hours. I also said it currently had an
    HD7770 but I'd be keeping the machine for a while yet <touch wood> and may
    put a video card in later that requires a bit more power so woyuld like a
    bit of headroom (but that I don't use high-end watt-suckers).

    They replied saying they'd enquire of the supplier and a couple of hours
    later emailed saying that it should suit - that it can deliver 585W all day
    long. So far so good.

    > Apparently Seasonic make a lot of high end
    > (gamer/enthusiast-targetted)
    > PSU for many other brands, but also market under their own name with a
    > comparatively low profile. I'm very happy with mine so far, by now it
    > runs a Geforce 780 since last month without the slightest glitch.
    > Clearly, at ~$300 this is not a cheapie, it probably pays to look at
    > reviews of whatever other model is under consideration and compare
    > stats. Power consumption and efficiency were clearly a consideration
    > for
    > me, since my box only gets turned off for 1/2 a day once a fortnight
    > or
    > so.
    > There are specialist review sites out there that show various curves
    > for
    > the behaviour of different psu, which gives one a good basis for
    > comparison. 's what I based my final choice on over my previously
    > favoured brands of Enermax and Antec.


    Yes, my most current knowledge of PSUs says that there's only really one
    brand that would be a better choice than Seasonic going by the best PSU
    review sites and that (the PC Power and Cooling Silencer) was unavailable in
    NZ when I last checked.

    One thing I'm really pleased about is that it seems that PSUs no longer go
    for multiple 12v rails (both of our new ones have a monolithic single 12v
    rail). What a stupid idea that was! I remember reading about the AcBel I had
    (3 x 16A / 12v rails) and how to tell which of the PCIe video connectors
    was on it's own rail... Back in the day the PC Power and Cooling PSU that
    won all of the tests was one of the few PSUs that had a monolithic 12v
    rail - something like 60A.

    Also both of those PSUs use Japanese electrolytic capacitors (although I
    dare say the Seasonic uses better quality ones).

    (A couple of the sites I used to reference when I was looking at PSUs:
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?108088-Official-XS-Power-Supply-Ranking-Phase-I
    http://www.jonnyguru.com/ )

    Cheers,
    --
    </Shaun>

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).
    ~misfit~, Feb 16, 2014
    #8
  9. ~misfit~

    Gordon Guest

    On 2014-02-16, ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    >
    > However that's a bit rich for my blood. After EMBs reply regarding the
    > CoolerMaster I looked at their range, then at Ascent as they're where I
    > usually buy my gear - and ended up with this one;
    >
    > http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=418191
    >
    > PB Tech had it too but at a higher price than Ascent. I decided to spend a
    > litle more of the bank's money and get one with a bit more power and a
    > 5-year warranty
    >
    > I emailed them first and told them it's a QX9650 with four RAM sticks, two
    > optical drives and up to four HDDs - one fixed Velociraptor and three SATA
    > bays that have mainly 2TB HDDs swapped in and out of them. Often all bays
    > are full and files being copied for hours. I also said it currently had an
    > HD7770 but I'd be keeping the machine for a while yet <touch wood> and may
    > put a video card in later that requires a bit more power so woyuld like a
    > bit of headroom (but that I don't use high-end watt-suckers).
    >
    > They replied saying they'd enquire of the supplier and a couple of hours
    > later emailed saying that it should suit - that it can deliver 585W all day
    > long.


    Interesting and yet the website says its rated at 650 watts. Shows that one
    does need to state how long you want to draw that power from it.


    >
    >> Apparently Seasonic make a lot of high end
    >> (gamer/enthusiast-targetted)
    >> PSU for many other brands, but also market under their own name with a
    >> comparatively low profile. I'm very happy with mine so far, by now it
    >> runs a Geforce 780 since last month without the slightest glitch.
    >> Clearly, at ~$300 this is not a cheapie, it probably pays to look at
    >> reviews of whatever other model is under consideration and compare
    >> stats. Power consumption and efficiency were clearly a consideration
    >> for
    >> me, since my box only gets turned off for 1/2 a day once a fortnight
    >> or
    >> so.
    >> There are specialist review sites out there that show various curves
    >> for
    >> the behaviour of different psu, which gives one a good basis for
    >> comparison. 's what I based my final choice on over my previously
    >> favoured brands of Enermax and Antec.

    >
    > Yes, my most current knowledge of PSUs says that there's only really one
    > brand that would be a better choice than Seasonic going by the best PSU
    > review sites and that (the PC Power and Cooling Silencer) was unavailable in
    > NZ when I last checked.
    >
    > One thing I'm really pleased about is that it seems that PSUs no longer go
    > for multiple 12v rails (both of our new ones have a monolithic single 12v
    > rail). What a stupid idea that was! I remember reading about the AcBel I had
    > (3 x 16A / 12v rails) and how to tell which of the PCIe video connectors
    > was on it's own rail... Back in the day the PC Power and Cooling PSU that
    > won all of the tests was one of the few PSUs that had a monolithic 12v
    > rail - something like 60A.
    >
    > Also both of those PSUs use Japanese electrolytic capacitors (although I
    > dare say the Seasonic uses better quality ones).
    >
    > (A couple of the sites I used to reference when I was looking at PSUs:
    > http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?108088-Official-XS-Power-Supply-Ranking-Phase-I
    > http://www.jonnyguru.com/ )
    >
    > Cheers,
    Gordon, Feb 17, 2014
    #9
  10. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gordon wrote:
    > On 2014-02-16, ~misfit~ <> wrote:

    [snip]
    >> I emailed them first and told them it's a QX9650 with four RAM
    >> sticks, two optical drives and up to four HDDs - one fixed
    >> Velociraptor and three SATA bays that have mainly 2TB HDDs swapped
    >> in and out of them. Often all bays are full and files being copied
    >> for hours. I also said it currently had an HD7770 but I'd be keeping
    >> the machine for a while yet <touch wood> and may put a video card in
    >> later that requires a bit more power so woyuld like a bit of
    >> headroom (but that I don't use high-end watt-suckers).
    >>
    >> They replied saying they'd enquire of the supplier and a couple of
    >> hours later emailed saying that it should suit - that it can deliver
    >> 585W all day long.

    >
    > Interesting and yet the website says its rated at 650 watts. Shows
    > that one does need to state how long you want to draw that power from
    > it.


    Oh, I learned years ago from reading in-depth PSU reviews that the obvious
    (a 650W PSU delivers 650W continuous) certainly isn't true at all. (Those
    two URLs that I posted are about the best places to start on teh whole webz
    if you want to know about computer PSUs.)

    The good news is that it seems that Cooler Master started to get Seasonic to
    OEM manufacture their better quality retail PSUs a couple of years back.
    While I'm not 100% sure that my Cooler Master V650S[*] PSU *is*
    Seasonic-made I know it's big brothers in the 'V' range are
    http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=350 and
    it's more than likely that it too is. <fingers crossed> It comes with a 5
    year warranty (in NZ) anyway.

    [*] AFAICT the 'S' in it's name is for 'Semi', as in Semi-modular. The
    motherboard wires are permanently connected to the PSU. Only the wires for
    peripherals are modular, with four plugs / sockets with ribbons of Molex /
    SATA plugs on them.
    --
    </Shaun>

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).
    ~misfit~, Feb 17, 2014
    #10
  11. On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:49:06 +1300, Kiwi <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:09:27 +1300, "~misfit~"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>Oh, I learned years ago from reading in-depth PSU reviews that the obvious
    >>(a 650W PSU delivers 650W continuous) certainly isn't true at all. (Those
    >>two URLs that I posted are about the best places to start on teh whole webz
    >>if you want to know about computer PSUs.)
    >>

    >
    >My rule of thumb when building (or upgrading) boxes was that the PSU
    >should not run at more than 75% of its rated output. Never had a
    >failure between upgrades.
    >
    >Cheers, Kiwi



    Buy you don't have any way of testing that, its all guess work..
    Frank Williams, Feb 17, 2014
    #11
  12. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Kiwi wrote:
    > On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:09:27 +1300, "~misfit~"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Oh, I learned years ago from reading in-depth PSU reviews that the
    >> obvious (a 650W PSU delivers 650W continuous) certainly isn't true
    >> at all. (Those two URLs that I posted are about the best places to
    >> start on teh whole webz if you want to know about computer PSUs.)

    >
    > My rule of thumb when building (or upgrading) boxes was that the PSU
    > should not run at more than 75% of its rated output. Never had a
    > failure between upgrades.


    Yeah, that's a good rule. What I've learned from reading the sites I
    mentioned is that most PSUs run most efficiently at around 50% capacity.
    Alas I'm not in a financial position to buy a PSU capable of twice the
    maximum draw of my system. Otherwise that Seasonic-built Cooler Master V1000
    would be in my computer case right now. ;)
    --
    </Shaun>

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).
    ~misfit~, Feb 18, 2014
    #12
    1. Advertising

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