Ancient Gateway 1200 series with Millennium Ed

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by ChrisCoaster, Mar 7, 2008.

  1. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest

    PROBLEM: It takes 20min. for Internet explorer to bring up CNN or Fox
    or even Google!

    MY SYSTEM:
    My dial-up speed is approx 37,000 bps(where I live now - was faster at
    my parent's).

    The machine has a 1.2gHz AMD Athlon Processor. It had originally
    128mB RAM - I doubled it in 2002 - a year after I bought it.

    I clicked on Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System
    Monitor, and here are the vitals I chose to monitor and their levels:

    Kernel Processor(%): steady 100% - even when I'm not touching the
    mouse!

    Dial-Up Adaptor Connection Speed: 37,700

    Memory Manager: Swapfile In Use: 35mB

    Unused Physical Memory: 20mB

    I'm running ZoneLabs' ZoneAlarm and am virus and spyware free, up to
    date.

    I did once have the "Swen" virus 3 years ago after letting my
    antivirus subscription lapse for 11 months. I downloaded a cleaning
    patch for it but still it takes me a half hour to download and read my
    e-mail in Yahoo - a task which used to take only 5 minutes - even with
    dial-up!

    What else am I missing here?

    thanks,

    -ChrisCoaster
    ChrisCoaster, Mar 7, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. ChrisCoaster

    flambe Guest

    Your streaming media problem is connection speed and memory.
    If the pipe downloading mulitmedia from the internet is too small it will
    take longer for the data to squeeze through.
    Enough of the file has to be stored in memory, or buffered, before it can
    begin to play.
    If you can upgrade to 1gb of RAM and get a faster internet connection you
    will see a big improvement.
    While your CPU is ancient by current standards the CPU is not your problem.
    While ME was unfairly maligned (it is better in every way than Vista) it
    should run well on a system like yours.
    Your system slowdown suggests there are background programs running of which
    you are not aware. That may be also why it takes so long to accomplish
    anything.
    First defragment your hard drive-sometimes that is all it takes to get an
    old system back up to speed. Use the Windows applet.
    You can try downloading and running antispyware and anti-rootkit programs.
    However the best way to get your system back to where it was would be to
    reformat your hard drive and reinstall your OS and programs. Make sure you
    have back-up copies of important files (documents and the like) and scan
    those for viruses et al before copying them back to your hard drive.
    flambe, Mar 7, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. ChrisCoaster

    Baron Guest

    ChrisCoaster wrote:

    > PROBLEM: It takes 20min. for Internet explorer to bring up CNN or Fox
    > or even Google!
    >
    > MY SYSTEM:
    > My dial-up speed is approx 37,000 bps(where I live now - was faster at
    > my parent's).
    >
    > The machine has a 1.2gHz AMD Athlon Processor. It had originally
    > 128mB RAM - I doubled it in 2002 - a year after I bought it.
    >
    > I clicked on Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System
    > Monitor, and here are the vitals I chose to monitor and their levels:
    >
    > Kernel Processor(%): steady 100% - even when I'm not touching the
    > mouse!
    >
    > Dial-Up Adaptor Connection Speed: 37,700
    >
    > Memory Manager: Swapfile In Use: 35mB
    >
    > Unused Physical Memory: 20mB
    >
    > I'm running ZoneLabs' ZoneAlarm and am virus and spyware free, up to
    > date.


    You only think that you are virus and spyware free. The chances are
    that you have stuff running on your machine that you don't know about.

    > I did once have the "Swen" virus 3 years ago after letting my
    > antivirus subscription lapse for 11 months. I downloaded a cleaning
    > patch for it but still it takes me a half hour to download and read my
    > e-mail in Yahoo - a task which used to take only 5 minutes - even with
    > dial-up!
    >
    > What else am I missing here?
    >
    > thanks,
    >
    > -ChrisCoaster


    If I were you I would backup anything that I didn't want to loose and do
    a re-install or restore. You will be surprised at the difference it
    will make.

    --
    Best Regards:
    Baron.
    Baron, Mar 7, 2008
    #3
  4. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest

    On Mar 7, 3:01 pm, Baron <> wrote:
    > ChrisCoaster wrote:
    > > PROBLEM:  It takes 20min. for Internet explorer to bring up CNN or Fox
    > > or even Google!

    >
    > > MY SYSTEM:
    > > My dial-up speed is approx 37,000 bps(where I live now - was faster at
    > > my parent's).

    >
    > > The machine has a 1.2gHz AMD Athlon Processor.  It had originally
    > > 128mB RAM - I doubled it in 2002 - a year after I bought it.

    >
    > > I clicked on Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System
    > > Monitor, and here are the vitals I chose to monitor and their levels:

    >
    > > Kernel Processor(%): steady 100% - even when I'm not touching the
    > > mouse!

    >
    > > Dial-Up Adaptor Connection Speed: 37,700

    >
    > > Memory Manager: Swapfile In Use: 35mB

    >
    > > Unused Physical Memory: 20mB

    >
    > > I'm running ZoneLabs' ZoneAlarm and am virus and spyware free, up to
    > > date.

    >
    > You only think that you are virus and spyware free.  The chances are
    > that you have stuff running on your machine that you don't know about.
    >
    > > I did once have the "Swen" virus 3 years ago after letting my
    > > antivirus subscription lapse for 11 months.  I downloaded a cleaning
    > > patch for it but still it takes me a half hour to download and read my
    > > e-mail in Yahoo - a task which used to take only 5 minutes - even with
    > > dial-up!

    >
    > > What else am I missing here?

    >
    > > thanks,

    >
    > > -ChrisCoaster

    >
    > If I were you I would backup anything that I didn't want to loose and do
    > a re-install or restore.  You will be surprised at the difference it
    > will make.
    >
    > --
    > Best Regards:
    >                      Baron.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -

    ________________

    I performed a Restore back to last May.

    No longer does the Swap File in use read so high in System Monitor.
    It comes on occassionally and only 4-6mB at that.

    Unfortunately the CPU %Use is still flat-lining - at 100%!! It's not
    like I'm gaming, IMing, and designing websites simultaneously here;
    I'm just checking my e-mail on Yahoo and chatting with folks like you
    on alt.computer.

    Secondly, I typed ' msconfig ' in the Run window and didn't see
    anything weird in the .ini or startup sections.

    So what I need to know is: How can something install and run itself on
    the computer without Windows(or ZoneAlarm or Norton, etc) knowing
    about it?

    -CC
    ChrisCoaster, Mar 8, 2008
    #4
  5. ChrisCoaster

    Paul Guest

    ChrisCoaster wrote:

    >
    > I performed a Restore back to last May.
    >
    > No longer does the Swap File in use read so high in System Monitor.
    > It comes on occassionally and only 4-6mB at that.
    >
    > Unfortunately the CPU %Use is still flat-lining - at 100%!! It's not
    > like I'm gaming, IMing, and designing websites simultaneously here;
    > I'm just checking my e-mail on Yahoo and chatting with folks like you
    > on alt.computer.
    >
    > Secondly, I typed ' msconfig ' in the Run window and didn't see
    > anything weird in the .ini or startup sections.
    >
    > So what I need to know is: How can something install and run itself on
    > the computer without Windows(or ZoneAlarm or Norton, etc) knowing
    > about it?
    >
    > -CC


    Not all malware is the same quality. At one time, with the distribution
    of SDKs, a lot of the malware was coming from unskilled people, people
    who were barely able to use the SDK. When there is a profit motive,
    as with password or credit card stealing, then more effort may be
    put into making the malware stealthy.

    I was reading a bit about the Sony root kit, that Sony put on some of
    their music CDs. It prepended $sys$ to some of its file names, which
    apparently causes the files to be invisible. It is also possible, for
    someone to write malware, that modifies the normal tools we use to
    check for added processes and the like. (Like run their own
    Task Manager, for example.)

    It really depends on what the malware is for, as to how good
    it will be.

    *******
    What I like to do with potential hardware problems, is boot
    alternate OSes, and study the hardware to see if the strangeness
    remains. For example, when my oldest motherboard was freezing after a
    RAM upgrade, I'd assumed it was the fault of Win98. A year later,
    when I booted Knoppix or Ubuntu, I was surprised to find my freezing
    problem was present there also, and happened in a matter of seconds.
    I concluded from that, that I had a hardware problem. All OSes were
    flaky in the same way.

    Knoppix and Ubuntu are 700MB downloads, and you need a CD burner that
    can handle a 700MB CD (at the time, my old one could not do it).
    Knopper.net and Ubuntu.com can give more info.

    What I cannot tell you right off hand, is the RAM requirement for those
    distros. I assume they can run on vapor, but if you're concerned,
    better to check the system requirements, before wasting
    time on a download. A 700MB ISO9660 file, is not something you want
    to download over dialup. The distros are internally compressed, which
    means the compression protocol used in dialup, won't accelerate the
    download.

    Puppylinux is a smaller distro, but I have no experience with it.
    I don't know what kind of applications are bundled with that one.
    The 700MB ones, include a lot of cruft you might not be interested
    in. (I suppose you could buy the CD from an online vendor, with
    Knoppix or Ubuntu already burned into it, which is another option.
    I purchased online for my first FreeBSD install, as the whole set
    for that had 8 or 9 CDs and included source.)

    Paul
    Paul, Mar 8, 2008
    #5
  6. ChrisCoaster

    Baron Guest

    Paul wrote:

    > ChrisCoaster wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I performed a Restore back to last May.
    >>
    >> No longer does the Swap File in use read so high in System Monitor.
    >> It comes on occassionally and only 4-6mB at that.
    >>
    >> Unfortunately the CPU %Use is still flat-lining - at 100%!! It's not
    >> like I'm gaming, IMing, and designing websites simultaneously here;
    >> I'm just checking my e-mail on Yahoo and chatting with folks like you
    >> on alt.computer.
    >>
    >> Secondly, I typed ' msconfig ' in the Run window and didn't see
    >> anything weird in the .ini or startup sections.
    >>
    >> So what I need to know is: How can something install and run itself
    >> on the computer without Windows(or ZoneAlarm or Norton, etc) knowing
    >> about it?
    >>
    >> -CC

    >
    > Not all malware is the same quality. At one time, with the
    > distribution of SDKs, a lot of the malware was coming from unskilled
    > people, people who were barely able to use the SDK. When there is a
    > profit motive, as with password or credit card stealing, then more
    > effort may be put into making the malware stealthy.
    >
    > I was reading a bit about the Sony root kit, that Sony put on some of
    > their music CDs. It prepended $sys$ to some of its file names, which
    > apparently causes the files to be invisible. It is also possible, for
    > someone to write malware, that modifies the normal tools we use to
    > check for added processes and the like. (Like run their own
    > Task Manager, for example.)
    >
    > It really depends on what the malware is for, as to how good
    > it will be.
    >
    > *******
    > What I like to do with potential hardware problems, is boot
    > alternate OSes, and study the hardware to see if the strangeness
    > remains. For example, when my oldest motherboard was freezing after a
    > RAM upgrade, I'd assumed it was the fault of Win98. A year later,
    > when I booted Knoppix or Ubuntu, I was surprised to find my freezing
    > problem was present there also, and happened in a matter of seconds.
    > I concluded from that, that I had a hardware problem. All OSes were
    > flaky in the same way.
    >
    > Knoppix and Ubuntu are 700MB downloads, and you need a CD burner that
    > can handle a 700MB CD (at the time, my old one could not do it).
    > Knopper.net and Ubuntu.com can give more info.
    >
    > What I cannot tell you right off hand, is the RAM requirement for
    > those distros. I assume they can run on vapor, but if you're
    > concerned, better to check the system requirements, before wasting
    > time on a download. A 700MB ISO9660 file, is not something you want
    > to download over dialup. The distros are internally compressed, which
    > means the compression protocol used in dialup, won't accelerate the
    > download.
    >
    > Puppylinux is a smaller distro, but I have no experience with it.
    > I don't know what kind of applications are bundled with that one.
    > The 700MB ones, include a lot of cruft you might not be interested
    > in. (I suppose you could buy the CD from an online vendor, with
    > Knoppix or Ubuntu already burned into it, which is another option.
    > I purchased online for my first FreeBSD install, as the whole set
    > for that had 8 or 9 CDs and included source.)
    >
    > Paul


    Some good advice in there. A live CD would be a good way to test the
    hardware. As Paul says check with the live CD to see if you have
    enough RAM etc to run. For instance the Open SuSE 10.3 Live CD
    requires 512Mb RAM to run.

    --
    Best Regards:
    Baron.
    Baron, Mar 8, 2008
    #6
  7. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest

    On Mar 8, 7:07 am, Baron <> wrote:
    > Paul wrote:
    > > ChrisCoaster wrote:

    >
    > >> I performed a Restore back to last May.

    >
    > >> No longer does the Swap File in use read so high in System Monitor.
    > >> It comes on occassionally and only 4-6mB at that.

    >
    > >> Unfortunately the CPU %Use is still flat-lining - at 100%!!  It's not
    > >> like I'm gaming, IMing, and designing websites simultaneously here;
    > >> I'm just checking my e-mail on Yahoo and chatting with folks like you
    > >> on alt.computer.

    >
    > >> Secondly, I typed ' msconfig ' in the Run window and didn't see
    > >> anything weird in the .ini or startup sections.

    >
    > >> So what I need to know is: How can something install and run itself
    > >> on the computer without Windows(or ZoneAlarm or Norton, etc) knowing
    > >> about it?

    >
    > >> -CC

    >
    > > Not all malware is the same quality. At one time, with the
    > > distribution of SDKs, a lot of the malware was coming from unskilled
    > > people, people who were barely able to use the SDK. When there is a
    > > profit motive, as with password or credit card stealing, then more
    > > effort may be put into making the malware stealthy.

    >
    > > I was reading a bit about the Sony root kit, that Sony put on some of
    > > their music CDs. It prepended $sys$ to some of its file names, which
    > > apparently causes the files to be invisible. It is also possible, for
    > > someone to write malware, that modifies the normal tools we use to
    > > check for added processes and the like. (Like run their own
    > > Task Manager, for example.)

    >
    > > It really depends on what the malware is for, as to how good
    > > it will be.

    >
    > > *******
    > > What I like to do with potential hardware problems, is boot
    > > alternate OSes, and study the hardware to see if the strangeness
    > > remains. For example, when my oldest motherboard was freezing after a
    > > RAM upgrade, I'd assumed it was the fault of Win98. A year later,
    > > when I booted Knoppix or Ubuntu, I was surprised to find my freezing
    > > problem was present there also, and happened in a matter of seconds.
    > > I concluded from that, that I had a hardware problem. All OSes were
    > > flaky in the same way.

    >
    > > Knoppix and Ubuntu are 700MB downloads, and you need a CD burner that
    > > can handle a 700MB CD (at the time, my old one could not do it).
    > > Knopper.net and Ubuntu.com can give more info.

    >
    > > What I cannot tell you right off hand, is the RAM requirement for
    > > those distros. I assume they can run on vapor, but if you're
    > > concerned, better to check the system requirements, before wasting
    > > time on a download. A 700MB ISO9660 file, is not something you want
    > > to download over dialup. The distros are internally compressed, which
    > > means the compression protocol used in dialup, won't accelerate the
    > > download.

    >
    > > Puppylinux is a smaller distro, but I have no experience with it.
    > > I don't know what kind of applications are bundled with that one.
    > > The 700MB ones, include a lot of cruft you might not be interested
    > > in. (I suppose you could buy the CD from an online vendor, with
    > > Knoppix or Ubuntu already burned into it, which is another option.
    > > I purchased online for my first FreeBSD install, as the whole set
    > > for that had 8 or 9 CDs and included source.)

    >
    > >     Paul

    >
    > Some good advice in there.  A live CD would be a good way to test the
    > hardware.  As Paul says check with the live CD to see if you have
    > enough RAM etc to run.  For instance the Open SuSE 10.3 Live CD
    > requires 512Mb RAM to run.
    >
    > --
    > Best Regards:
    >                      Baron.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -

    _______________________
    A little back history here for you folks:

    I purchased the Gateway 1200 Select in 2001. It shipped with 128 mB
    RAM.

    In 2002 I doubled that to 256 RAM.

    I was living at my parents' at that time and typical dialup speeds
    between 47-49k baud.

    In 2004 I moved the PC to where I live with my wife. During that year
    I let my AV subscript. expire for a year. Typical dialup speeds
    during that time were around 37k baud, in my perception only a little
    slower than the old location.

    In 2005 I learned that I had contracted Swen - and how knwhos what
    else! I downloaded Symantec Norton - which slowed down the machine
    considerably. So I removed that and found out about ZoneAlarm, which
    did the same thing with half the RAM. I also downloaded and ran,
    repeatedly, some Swen cleaners to get that out.

    Since 2006 I have been running ZoneAlarm and conduct Microsoft
    maintenance features(ScanDisk and Disk Defrag) almost every month.
    When doing so, I shut down everything that doesn't need to be running
    - INCLUDING ZoneAlarm A.V.

    Still, I am religous in renewing the A.V. from Zonealarm.

    Last Thursday, I did a system restore back to May of '07. That seemed
    to help with the swapfile and the 100% processor - for a day or two.
    On Friday I ran numerous free virus/spyware removal tools(freeware)
    all came back negative for everything.

    NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT: The 100% kernel processor indication in system
    monitor occurs ONLY during internet usage. Otherwise it reads between
    20 - 40%, 70% in spikes(like when opening Media Player or a game. The
    swap file usage remains low, and there is more unused physical RAM acc
    to Sys Mon.

    So something is going on with that AMD Athlon processor when I'm on-
    line, because as I said a few paragraphs back - in 2004 to 2005 it
    did not take TEN MINUTES to display a webpage or process Yahoo! Mail.

    In addition last year I noticed the CPU and it's cooling fan were
    mighty dusty. In the process of removing the fan and cleaning both
    the CPU cooling fins and the fan, I broke one of the fan blades. The
    fan is now slightly imbalanced and buzzes all the time. Could all
    this trouble, and the high kernel %age be caused by less than optimal
    cooling of the CPU?

    Please weigh in.

    -CC
    ChrisCoaster, Mar 8, 2008
    #7
  8. ChrisCoaster

    Baron Guest

    ChrisCoaster wrote:

    > On Mar 8, 7:07 am, Baron <> wrote:
    >> Paul wrote:
    >> > ChrisCoaster wrote:

    >>
    >> >> I performed a Restore back to last May.

    >>
    >> >> No longer does the Swap File in use read so high in System
    >> >> Monitor. It comes on occassionally and only 4-6mB at that.

    >>
    >> >> Unfortunately the CPU %Use is still flat-lining - at 100%!!  It's
    >> >> not like I'm gaming, IMing, and designing websites simultaneously
    >> >> here; I'm just checking my e-mail on Yahoo and chatting with folks
    >> >> like you on alt.computer.

    >>
    >> >> Secondly, I typed ' msconfig ' in the Run window and didn't see
    >> >> anything weird in the .ini or startup sections.

    >>
    >> >> So what I need to know is: How can something install and run
    >> >> itself on the computer without Windows(or ZoneAlarm or Norton,
    >> >> etc) knowing about it?

    >>
    >> >> -CC

    >>
    >> > Not all malware is the same quality. At one time, with the
    >> > distribution of SDKs, a lot of the malware was coming from
    >> > unskilled people, people who were barely able to use the SDK. When
    >> > there is a profit motive, as with password or credit card stealing,
    >> > then more effort may be put into making the malware stealthy.

    >>
    >> > I was reading a bit about the Sony root kit, that Sony put on some
    >> > of their music CDs. It prepended $sys$ to some of its file names,
    >> > which apparently causes the files to be invisible. It is also
    >> > possible, for someone to write malware, that modifies the normal
    >> > tools we use to check for added processes and the like. (Like run
    >> > their own Task Manager, for example.)

    >>
    >> > It really depends on what the malware is for, as to how good
    >> > it will be.

    >>
    >> > *******
    >> > What I like to do with potential hardware problems, is boot
    >> > alternate OSes, and study the hardware to see if the strangeness
    >> > remains. For example, when my oldest motherboard was freezing after
    >> > a RAM upgrade, I'd assumed it was the fault of Win98. A year later,
    >> > when I booted Knoppix or Ubuntu, I was surprised to find my
    >> > freezing problem was present there also, and happened in a matter
    >> > of seconds. I concluded from that, that I had a hardware problem.
    >> > All OSes were flaky in the same way.

    >>
    >> > Knoppix and Ubuntu are 700MB downloads, and you need a CD burner
    >> > that can handle a 700MB CD (at the time, my old one could not do
    >> > it). Knopper.net and Ubuntu.com can give more info.

    >>
    >> > What I cannot tell you right off hand, is the RAM requirement for
    >> > those distros. I assume they can run on vapor, but if you're
    >> > concerned, better to check the system requirements, before wasting
    >> > time on a download. A 700MB ISO9660 file, is not something you want
    >> > to download over dialup. The distros are internally compressed,
    >> > which means the compression protocol used in dialup, won't
    >> > accelerate the download.

    >>
    >> > Puppylinux is a smaller distro, but I have no experience with it.
    >> > I don't know what kind of applications are bundled with that one.
    >> > The 700MB ones, include a lot of cruft you might not be interested
    >> > in. (I suppose you could buy the CD from an online vendor, with
    >> > Knoppix or Ubuntu already burned into it, which is another option.
    >> > I purchased online for my first FreeBSD install, as the whole set
    >> > for that had 8 or 9 CDs and included source.)

    >>
    >> > Paul

    >>
    >> Some good advice in there.  A live CD would be a good way to test the
    >> hardware.  As Paul says check with the live CD to see if you have
    >> enough RAM etc to run.  For instance the Open SuSE 10.3 Live CD
    >> requires 512Mb RAM to run.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Best Regards:
    >> Baron.- Hide quoted text -
    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    > _______________________
    > A little back history here for you folks:
    >
    > I purchased the Gateway 1200 Select in 2001. It shipped with 128 mB
    > RAM.
    >
    > In 2002 I doubled that to 256 RAM.
    >
    > I was living at my parents' at that time and typical dialup speeds
    > between 47-49k baud.
    >
    > In 2004 I moved the PC to where I live with my wife. During that year
    > I let my AV subscript. expire for a year. Typical dialup speeds
    > during that time were around 37k baud, in my perception only a little
    > slower than the old location.
    >
    > In 2005 I learned that I had contracted Swen - and how knwhos what
    > else! I downloaded Symantec Norton - which slowed down the machine
    > considerably. So I removed that and found out about ZoneAlarm, which
    > did the same thing with half the RAM. I also downloaded and ran,
    > repeatedly, some Swen cleaners to get that out.
    >
    > Since 2006 I have been running ZoneAlarm and conduct Microsoft
    > maintenance features(ScanDisk and Disk Defrag) almost every month.
    > When doing so, I shut down everything that doesn't need to be running
    > - INCLUDING ZoneAlarm A.V.
    >
    > Still, I am religous in renewing the A.V. from Zonealarm.
    >
    > Last Thursday, I did a system restore back to May of '07. That seemed
    > to help with the swapfile and the 100% processor - for a day or two.
    > On Friday I ran numerous free virus/spyware removal tools(freeware)
    > all came back negative for everything.
    >
    > NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT: The 100% kernel processor indication in system
    > monitor occurs ONLY during internet usage. Otherwise it reads between
    > 20 - 40%, 70% in spikes(like when opening Media Player or a game. The
    > swap file usage remains low, and there is more unused physical RAM acc
    > to Sys Mon.
    >
    > So something is going on with that AMD Athlon processor when I'm on-
    > line, because as I said a few paragraphs back - in 2004 to 2005 it
    > did not take TEN MINUTES to display a webpage or process Yahoo! Mail.
    >
    > In addition last year I noticed the CPU and it's cooling fan were
    > mighty dusty. In the process of removing the fan and cleaning both
    > the CPU cooling fins and the fan, I broke one of the fan blades. The
    > fan is now slightly imbalanced and buzzes all the time. Could all
    > this trouble, and the high kernel %age be caused by less than optimal
    > cooling of the CPU?
    >
    > Please weigh in.
    >
    > -CC

    Hi Chris,

    Lack of cooling can cause the sort of problems you are having, but why
    it should be more apparent when connected to the internet, I don't
    know.

    For the sake of a few pounds/dollars, get a new heatsink and fan unit.
    If you know how to clean and replace the heatsink compound properly
    then just a new fan. AMD CPU don't like to get overheated at all.

    --
    Best Regards:
    Baron.
    Baron, Mar 8, 2008
    #8
  9. ChrisCoaster

    Paul Guest

    ChrisCoaster wrote:

    > A little back history here for you folks:
    >
    > I purchased the Gateway 1200 Select in 2001. It shipped with 128 mB
    > RAM.
    >
    > In 2002 I doubled that to 256 RAM.
    >
    > I was living at my parents' at that time and typical dialup speeds
    > between 47-49k baud.
    >
    > In 2004 I moved the PC to where I live with my wife. During that year
    > I let my AV subscript. expire for a year. Typical dialup speeds
    > during that time were around 37k baud, in my perception only a little
    > slower than the old location.
    >
    > In 2005 I learned that I had contracted Swen - and how knwhos what
    > else! I downloaded Symantec Norton - which slowed down the machine
    > considerably. So I removed that and found out about ZoneAlarm, which
    > did the same thing with half the RAM. I also downloaded and ran,
    > repeatedly, some Swen cleaners to get that out.
    >
    > Since 2006 I have been running ZoneAlarm and conduct Microsoft
    > maintenance features(ScanDisk and Disk Defrag) almost every month.
    > When doing so, I shut down everything that doesn't need to be running
    > - INCLUDING ZoneAlarm A.V.
    >
    > Still, I am religous in renewing the A.V. from Zonealarm.
    >
    > Last Thursday, I did a system restore back to May of '07. That seemed
    > to help with the swapfile and the 100% processor - for a day or two.
    > On Friday I ran numerous free virus/spyware removal tools(freeware)
    > all came back negative for everything.
    >
    > NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT: The 100% kernel processor indication in system
    > monitor occurs ONLY during internet usage. Otherwise it reads between
    > 20 - 40%, 70% in spikes(like when opening Media Player or a game. The
    > swap file usage remains low, and there is more unused physical RAM acc
    > to Sys Mon.
    >
    > So something is going on with that AMD Athlon processor when I'm on-
    > line, because as I said a few paragraphs back - in 2004 to 2005 it
    > did not take TEN MINUTES to display a webpage or process Yahoo! Mail.
    >
    > In addition last year I noticed the CPU and it's cooling fan were
    > mighty dusty. In the process of removing the fan and cleaning both
    > the CPU cooling fins and the fan, I broke one of the fan blades. The
    > fan is now slightly imbalanced and buzzes all the time. Could all
    > this trouble, and the high kernel %age be caused by less than optimal
    > cooling of the CPU?
    >
    > Please weigh in.
    >
    > -CC


    There are different kinds of modems. A modem with datapump, like my old
    USR Courier, does all of the "heavy lifting" during dialup, inside the
    modem.

    A Winmodem PCI card, by comparison, is 1/7th the price of my old Courier.
    A Winmodem is simplified, in that it takes voltage readings from the
    phone line, and converts them to digital values. All of the other
    intelligence, converting those voltages back into the original
    data, is done by the Winmodem driver.

    The Winmodem driver uses DSP or digital signal processing. It uses
    algorithms like FFT (fast fourier transform), to move between the
    time domain and the frequency domain.

    A Winmodem driver may need a minimum amount of processing power, to
    do the necessary DSP for a dialup session. Sometimes, the code is
    written in assembler, and takes advantage of SSE if it is available.
    (I.e. Some specialized instructions on the processor, make the job
    easier for it.)

    I would not have expected a Winmodem driver, to have sucked the life
    from a 1GHz Athlon. It almost seems like a bug in the Winmodem
    driver, like it is stuck in a loop.

    What other reasons could account for it ?

    If the cache was disabled, that might do it. Say the cache was disabled
    part way through a computing session for example. If the cache is missing,
    that translates into a drop in effective computing rate.

    To test the performance of your processor, try SuperPI.

    http://www.xtremesystems.com/pi/super_pi_mod-1.5.zip

    If I run SuperPI on my computer, and ask it to computer PI to 1 million
    digits, it currently takes about 50 seconds. It will take a few minutes on
    your processor, assuming it is fully functional. Mine is a P4 processor
    running at 3.1GHz.

    How would you use SuperPI ?

    When you first use your computer, and before going online, benchmark
    with SuperPI. Quit SuperPI, do an online session. If the CPU is pegged
    at 100%, disconnect from your online session. Quit your copy of
    Firefox and other online tools. That will free up enough memory
    for a SuperPI run. Repeat the benchmark effort. Does the benchmark
    take the same amount of time, or a longer time to complete ? If
    it takes a lot longer, then perhaps a cache has become disabled.

    Athlon processors need good and effective cooling. Some of the
    older motherboards, don't have working overheat protection. (Mine
    has a separate 8 pin chip, that monitors the temperature, and
    will shut off the PSU instantly if the threshold temp is surpassed.)
    If your fan is damaged, and missing a blade, then if it was my
    machine, I'd find a replacement. When I built my AthlonXP
    machine, I used a Zalman CNPS7000 series cooler, to give it
    good cooling. That won't fit all motherboards, due to its
    size. Since S462 boards haven't been made for a while, finding
    a good cooler may be more difficult now. A replacement fan
    though, should still be available, especially if it just bolts
    to the top of the heatsink. Fans come in standard sizes, and
    the ones on a desktop computer, use 12VDC for power. You can
    see some examples here.

    http://www.circuittest.com/English/Content/Divisions/Div_37_120.asp

    This is the one that cools the back of my computer. You cannot
    connect this one to a fan header, because it draws too much
    current. Your CPU cooler will be smaller than this, because
    it likely needs to bolt to the heatsink.

    http://www.circuittest.com/English/Content/Items/CFA1212038MS.asp

    You can compare a couple of coolers here.

    Dynatron with 60 x 60 x 25mm fan on top.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835114012

    Dynatron with 60 x 60 x 10mm fan on top.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835114011

    The 60 x 60 x 10 moves less than half the cooling air of the
    other one. But people claim the noise level is about the
    same as the stock AMD fan. The 25mm fan is loud by comparison.

    When fitting the heatsink on an Athlon processor, be careful
    not to tilt the heatsink during installation. The processor
    may have a shim or some "rubber bumpers" on top, and their
    purpose is to prevent the heatsink from tilting. If the
    heatsink tilts and rests on the edge of the silicon die
    of the processor, it can crack the die. The heatsink
    should sit flat.

    When removing and reinstalling a heatsink, you should reapply
    a thin layer of some thermal paste. There are many to
    choose from. Read the reviews for each one, before
    buying. One of the "ceramic" ones should suffice,
    and the main component will be something like boron
    nitride. Use alcohol for cleanup. Don't get
    it all over the place. Only a "grain of rice"
    quantity is needed. I still have my original tube
    of paste, so if you don't waste it, it lasts a long
    time.

    http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=85&name=Thermal-Compound-Grease

    Paul
    Paul, Mar 8, 2008
    #9
  10. ChrisCoaster

    Baron Guest

    Paul wrote:

    > Athlon processors need good and effective cooling. Some of the
    > older motherboards, don't have working overheat protection. (Mine
    > has a separate 8 pin chip, that monitors the temperature, and
    > will shut off the PSU instantly if the threshold temp is surpassed.)
    > If your fan is damaged, and missing a blade, then if it was my
    > machine, I'd find a replacement. When I built my AthlonXP
    > machine, I used a Zalman CNPS7000 series cooler, to give it
    > good cooling. That won't fit all motherboards, due to its
    > size. Since S462 boards haven't been made for a while, finding
    > a good cooler may be more difficult now. A replacement fan
    > though, should still be available, especially if it just bolts
    > to the top of the heatsink. Fans come in standard sizes, and
    > the ones on a desktop computer, use 12VDC for power. You can
    > see some examples here.
    >
    > http://www.circuittest.com/English/Content/Divisions/Div_37_120.asp
    >
    > This is the one that cools the back of my computer. You cannot
    > connect this one to a fan header, because it draws too much
    > current. Your CPU cooler will be smaller than this, because
    > it likely needs to bolt to the heatsink.
    >
    > http://www.circuittest.com/English/Content/Items/CFA1212038MS.asp
    >
    > You can compare a couple of coolers here.
    >
    > Dynatron with 60 x 60 x 25mm fan on top.
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835114012
    >
    > Dynatron with 60 x 60 x 10mm fan on top.
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835114011
    >
    > The 60 x 60 x 10 moves less than half the cooling air of the
    > other one. But people claim the noise level is about the
    > same as the stock AMD fan. The 25mm fan is loud by comparison.
    >
    > When fitting the heatsink on an Athlon processor, be careful
    > not to tilt the heatsink during installation. The processor
    > may have a shim or some "rubber bumpers" on top, and their
    > purpose is to prevent the heatsink from tilting. If the
    > heatsink tilts and rests on the edge of the silicon die
    > of the processor, it can crack the die. The heatsink
    > should sit flat.


    I would emphasise that "It must sit flat" !
    I have seen some expensive heatsinks that have not had an absolutely
    flat face fitted to some machines with disastrous results.

    > When removing and reinstalling a heatsink, you should reapply
    > a thin layer of some thermal paste. There are many to
    > choose from. Read the reviews for each one, before
    > buying. One of the "ceramic" ones should suffice,
    > and the main component will be something like boron
    > nitride. Use alcohol for cleanup. Don't get
    > it all over the place. Only a "grain of rice"
    > quantity is needed. I still have my original tube
    > of paste, so if you don't waste it, it lasts a long
    > time.
    >
    >

    http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=85&name=Thermal-Compound-Grease
    >
    > Paul


    I use "Artic Silver" whenever I need to replace the thermal compound.
    It doesn't boil and doesn't set, although there are some that bond to
    the CPU. I don't use those.

    --
    Best Regards:
    Baron.
    Baron, Mar 8, 2008
    #10
  11. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest

    On Mar 8, 1:40 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > ChrisCoaster wrote:
    > > A little back history here for you folks:

    >
    > > I purchased the Gateway 1200 Select in 2001.  It shipped with 128 mB
    > > RAM.

    >
    > > In 2002 I doubled that to 256 RAM.

    >
    > > I was living at my parents' at that time and typical dialup speeds
    > > between 47-49k baud.

    >
    > > In 2004 I moved the PC to where I live with my wife.  During that year
    > > I let my AV subscript. expire for a year.  Typical dialup speeds
    > > during that time were around 37k baud, in my perception only a little
    > > slower than the old location.

    >
    > > In 2005 I learned that I had contracted Swen - and how knwhos what
    > > else!  I downloaded Symantec Norton - which slowed down the machine
    > > considerably.  So I removed that and found out about ZoneAlarm, which
    > > did the same thing with half the RAM.  I also downloaded and ran,
    > > repeatedly, some Swen cleaners to get that out.

    >
    > > Since 2006 I have been running ZoneAlarm and conduct Microsoft
    > > maintenance features(ScanDisk and Disk Defrag) almost every month.
    > > When doing so, I shut down everything that doesn't need to be running
    > > - INCLUDING ZoneAlarm A.V.

    >
    > > Still, I am religous in renewing the A.V. from Zonealarm.

    >
    > > Last Thursday, I did a system restore back to May of '07.  That seemed
    > > to help with the swapfile and the 100% processor - for a day or two.
    > > On Friday I ran numerous free virus/spyware removal tools(freeware)
    > > all came back negative for everything.

    >
    > > NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT:  The 100% kernel processor indication in system
    > > monitor occurs ONLY during internet usage.  Otherwise it reads between
    > > 20 - 40%, 70% in spikes(like when opening Media Player or a game.  The
    > > swap file usage remains low, and there is more unused physical RAM acc
    > > to Sys Mon.

    >
    > > So something is going on with that AMD Athlon processor when I'm on-
    > > line, because as I said a few paragraphs back - in 2004  to 2005 it
    > > did not take TEN MINUTES to display a webpage or process Yahoo! Mail.

    >
    > > In addition last year I noticed the CPU and it's cooling fan were
    > > mighty dusty.  In the process of removing the fan and cleaning both
    > > the CPU cooling fins and the fan, I broke one of the fan blades.  The
    > > fan is now slightly imbalanced and buzzes all the time.  Could all
    > > this trouble, and the high kernel %age be caused by less than optimal
    > > cooling of the CPU?

    >
    > > Please weigh in.

    >
    > > -CC

    >
    > There are different kinds of modems. A modem with datapump, like my old
    > USR Courier, does all of the "heavy lifting" during dialup, inside the
    > modem.
    >
    > A Winmodem PCI card, by comparison, is 1/7th the price of my old Courier.
    > A Winmodem is simplified, in that it takes voltage readings from the
    > phone line, and converts them to digital values. All of the other
    > intelligence, converting those voltages back into the original
    > data, is done by the Winmodem driver.
    >
    > The Winmodem driver uses DSP or digital signal processing. It uses
    > algorithms like FFT (fast fourier transform), to move between the
    > time domain and the frequency domain.
    >
    > A Winmodem driver may need a minimum amount of processing power, to
    > do the necessary DSP for a dialup session. Sometimes, the code is
    > written in assembler, and takes advantage of SSE if it is available.
    > (I.e. Some specialized instructions on the processor, make the job
    > easier for it.)
    >
    > I would not have expected a Winmodem driver, to have sucked the life
    > from a 1GHz Athlon. It almost seems like a bug in the Winmodem
    > driver, like it is stuck in a loop.
    >
    > What other reasons could account for it ?
    >
    > If the cache was disabled, that might do it. Say the cache was disabled
    > part way through a computing session for example. If the cache is missing,
    > that translates into a drop in effective computing rate.
    >
    > To test the performance of your processor, try SuperPI.
    >
    > http://www.xtremesystems.com/pi/super_pi_mod-1.5.zip
    >


    >     Paul- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -

    _______________________

    Actually Paul, I neglected to point out that I replaced the Winmodem
    with a "real" USR dialup modem within two weeks of purchase in 2001.

    When that sumbitch was in there, there would be a sixty second delay,
    then the web page would resolve <boom!> just like that. After the real
    56k modem went in, the problem was gone.

    So Winmodem is not the issue here.

    Incidentally, I also didn't point out that I have to manually shut
    down my computer on 4 out of 5 sessions lately(hold down power button
    for 5+ sec). After clicking Start > Shut Down, and OK in the Dialog
    box, a blank screen with a blinking cursor in the upper-LH corner
    appears, and the system just hangs there. I could imagine the
    frequent manual shutdowns are doing ME a lotta good! ;)

    -CC
    ChrisCoaster, Mar 9, 2008
    #11
  12. ChrisCoaster

    Paul Guest

    ChrisCoaster wrote:

    >
    > Actually Paul, I neglected to point out that I replaced the Winmodem
    > with a "real" USR dialup modem within two weeks of purchase in 2001.
    >
    > When that sumbitch was in there, there would be a sixty second delay,
    > then the web page would resolve <boom!> just like that. After the real
    > 56k modem went in, the problem was gone.
    >
    > So Winmodem is not the issue here.
    >
    > Incidentally, I also didn't point out that I have to manually shut
    > down my computer on 4 out of 5 sessions lately(hold down power button
    > for 5+ sec). After clicking Start > Shut Down, and OK in the Dialog
    > box, a blank screen with a blinking cursor in the upper-LH corner
    > appears, and the system just hangs there. I could imagine the
    > frequent manual shutdowns are doing ME a lotta good! ;)
    >
    > -CC


    Windows is not my favorite OS, when it comes to debugging. There are
    limited tools available for free. Sysinternals.com has some free tools,
    but they don't necessarily support WinME. (Maybe there are older versions
    that do.) Sysinternals is now hosted by Microsoft, but the tools
    can still be downloaded.

    Things I see as possibly responsible:

    1) Malware (whether AV tools are used or not, stuff still gets through)
    2) Interrupt storm. Defective chip continually interrupts, keeping the
    OS "pinned" at kernel level.

    With my limited Windows debugging skills, if this was my problem, I'd probably
    try another OS. One where I can easily check for interrupt counts per
    second. To see if this is a hardware issue.

    If it is a software issue, I might eventually "push the button" and do
    a reinstall. I don't like to do that, unless I've run out of other
    solutions. I usually try a spare disk and put the OS on that first,
    so I can test and see if a clean install fixes it. Then, if the
    symptoms are improved, I'd nuke the original install and waste
    a couple days setting everything up again.

    Do you have the shutdown issue, even if you haven't been using
    the Internet during the current session ? If the modem is disconnected
    from the computer, do you have trouble shutting down ?

    One other test case that comes to mind, would be to use a second
    computer for Internet access. On the second computer, enable
    ICS, then run an Ethernet cable from the second computer, to
    the affected computer. The purpose of this test, would be
    removing the modem on the affected computer, from the
    networking picture. The setup would look like this.

    Ethernet
    Modem --> second ----------> affected
    computer computer
    (enable ICS) (Ethernet networking)

    HTH,
    Paul
    Paul, Mar 9, 2008
    #12
  13. ChrisCoaster

    Baron Guest

    ChrisCoaster wrote:

    >> > Last Thursday, I did a system restore back to May of '07.  That
    >> > seemed to help with the swapfile and the 100% processor - for a day
    >> > or two. On Friday I ran numerous free virus/spyware removal
    >> > tools(freeware) all came back negative for everything.


    > Incidentally, I also didn't point out that I have to manually shut
    > down my computer on 4 out of 5 sessions lately(hold down power button
    > for 5+ sec). After clicking Start > Shut Down, and OK in the Dialog
    > box, a blank screen with a blinking cursor in the upper-LH corner
    > appears, and the system just hangs there. I could imagine the
    > frequent manual shutdowns are doing ME a lotta good! ;)
    >
    > -CC


    The more bits you keep adding has me very much convinced that you
    have "Malware" on your machine.

    There is no real way to make sure that you have a clean machine without
    doing a full backup, data only, don't even think about backing up
    programs or Email. Format the hard drive and do a clean install from
    the original disks.

    When you have done that, set the machine up with the programs you need.
    Don't connect to the internet yet. When you are happy with that, then
    do another backup. Ideally use something like "DD" on Linux or "Ghost"
    to create a complete image of the partition to a CD or external drive.

    The reason for doing this is that it will be far quicker to restore a
    good image than going through the procedure described above when you
    get clobbered again.

    --
    Best Regards:
    Baron.
    Baron, Mar 9, 2008
    #13
  14. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest

    On Mar 9, 5:03 am, Baron <> wrote:
    > ChrisCoaster wrote:
    > >> > Last Thursday, I did a system restore back to May of '07.  That
    > >> > seemed to help with the swapfile and the 100% processor - for a day
    > >> > or two. On Friday I ran numerous free virus/spyware removal
    > >> > tools(freeware) all came back negative for everything.

    > > Incidentally, I also didn't point out that I have to manually shut
    > > down my computer on 4 out of 5 sessions lately(hold down power button
    > > for 5+ sec).  After clicking Start > Shut Down, and OK in the Dialog
    > > box, a blank screen with a blinking cursor in the upper-LH corner
    > > appears, and the system just hangs there.  I could imagine the
    > > frequent manual shutdowns are doing ME a lotta good! ;)

    >
    > > -CC

    >
    > The more bits you keep adding has me very much convinced that you
    > have "Malware" on your machine.
    >
    > There is no real way to make sure that you have a clean machine without
    > doing a full backup, data only, don't even think about backing up
    > programs or Email.  Format the hard drive and do a clean install from
    > the original disks.
    >
    > When you have done that, set the machine up with the programs you need.
    > Don't connect to the internet yet.  When you are happy with that, then
    > do another backup.  Ideally use something like "DD" on Linux or "Ghost"
    > to create a complete image of the partition to a CD or external drive.
    >
    > The reason for doing this is that it will be far quicker to restore a
    > good image than going through the procedure described above when you
    > get clobbered again.
    >
    > --
    > Best Regards:
    >                      Baron.

    _____________________

    Well - two developments, each sorta good news:

    #1. The cooling fins on top of the AMD Athlon were PACKED with gray-
    brown DUST. I vacuumed and used my own breath to get it all outa
    there, then screwed the fan back ontop of the fins. The fan's real
    tight now, and doesn't sound like a Cessna any more, and at least I
    can rest assured the CPU's running a lot cooler now - until next March
    when I have to vacuum it out again!

    #2. I disabled ZoneAlarm AV and did a second restore, this time back
    to 2006(the furthest back it would allow me to do one).

    #3. I restarted the machine, and for a while the kernel usage seemed
    to fluctuate more or less with the demands I placed on it, and not
    just throttled up 100% all the time.

    #4. After starting up the internet to type this, the kernel seems to
    flat line at 85% or so.
    When I get off the internet, and disconnect dialup, it stays there
    until I reboot the machine.

    After reboot, processor usage resembles the rocky mountains, betwen 20
    & 50% most of the time - until I get onto the internet again!
    Remember, ZoneAlarm is now disabled.

    However - applications(MS Word, PowerPoint, Media Player, that famous
    Microsoft Pinball) all start up and run and close flawlessly.

    -CC
    ChrisCoaster, Mar 11, 2008
    #14
  15. ChrisCoaster

    Baron Guest

    ChrisCoaster wrote:

    > On Mar 9, 5:03 am, Baron <> wrote:
    >> ChrisCoaster wrote:
    >> >> > Last Thursday, I did a system restore back to May of '07.  That
    >> >> > seemed to help with the swapfile and the 100% processor - for a
    >> >> > day or two. On Friday I ran numerous free virus/spyware removal
    >> >> > tools(freeware) all came back negative for everything.
    >> > Incidentally, I also didn't point out that I have to manually shut
    >> > down my computer on 4 out of 5 sessions lately(hold down power
    >> > button for 5+ sec).  After clicking Start > Shut Down, and OK in
    >> > the Dialog box, a blank screen with a blinking cursor in the
    >> > upper-LH corner appears, and the system just hangs there.  I could
    >> > imagine the frequent manual shutdowns are doing ME a lotta good! ;)

    >>
    >> > -CC

    >>
    >> The more bits you keep adding has me very much convinced that you
    >> have "Malware" on your machine.
    >>
    >> There is no real way to make sure that you have a clean machine
    >> without doing a full backup, data only, don't even think about
    >> backing up programs or Email.  Format the hard drive and do a clean
    >> install from the original disks.
    >>
    >> When you have done that, set the machine up with the programs you
    >> need. Don't connect to the internet yet.  When you are happy with
    >> that, then do another backup.  Ideally use something like "DD" on
    >> Linux or "Ghost" to create a complete image of the partition to a CD
    >> or external drive.
    >>
    >> The reason for doing this is that it will be far quicker to restore a
    >> good image than going through the procedure described above when you
    >> get clobbered again.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Best Regards:
    >> Baron.

    > _____________________
    >
    > Well - two developments, each sorta good news:
    >
    > #1. The cooling fins on top of the AMD Athlon were PACKED with gray-
    > brown DUST. I vacuumed and used my own breath to get it all outa
    > there, then screwed the fan back ontop of the fins. The fan's real
    > tight now, and doesn't sound like a Cessna any more, and at least I
    > can rest assured the CPU's running a lot cooler now - until next March
    > when I have to vacuum it out again!


    If that fan still has a broken blade you do need to get it replaced. It
    can knock 25% or more of the fans speed with a corresponding drop in
    cooling.

    > #2. I disabled ZoneAlarm AV and did a second restore, this time back
    > to 2006(the furthest back it would allow me to do one).
    >
    > #3. I restarted the machine, and for a while the kernel usage seemed
    > to fluctuate more or less with the demands I placed on it, and not
    > just throttled up 100% all the time.
    >
    > #4. After starting up the internet to type this, the kernel seems to
    > flat line at 85% or so.
    > When I get off the internet, and disconnect dialup, it stays there
    > until I reboot the machine.
    >
    > After reboot, processor usage resembles the rocky mountains, betwen 20
    > & 50% most of the time - until I get onto the internet again!
    > Remember, ZoneAlarm is now disabled.
    >
    > However - applications(MS Word, PowerPoint, Media Player, that famous
    > Microsoft Pinball) all start up and run and close flawlessly.
    >
    > -CC


    That more or less confirms the malware theory. The malware hides in the
    system restore mechanism. As I said earlier "Nuke & Pave" the only way
    you are going to guarantee that you will start off with a clean
    machine.

    --
    Best Regards:
    Baron.
    Baron, Mar 11, 2008
    #15
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. David
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    513
    Phillip Remaker
    Dec 5, 2003
  2. mln
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,191
  3. Robert Bala
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    486
    Robert B. Phillips, II
    Mar 16, 2005
  4. zxcvar
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    3,686
    Dave Martindale
    Sep 9, 2003
  5. ChrisCoaster

    Gateway Millennium machine gettin' its freak on

    ChrisCoaster, Dec 12, 2006, in forum: Computer Information
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    365
    ChrisCoaster
    Dec 12, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page