Anatomy Of An eBay Bidding War

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by John Turco, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. John Turco

    John Turco Guest

    Hello, all:

    Here's an interesting eBay <http://www.ebay.com> auction, completed on
    4-8-07:

    Kodak Easyshare CX6200 - Item number: 320099305950
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320099305950

    Bid History
    http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=320099305950

    The item's description:

    "Up for auction is a kodak easyshare cx6200 digital camera. The camera
    comes with the following: 128mb card, case, tripod, instructions, usb
    cord, and of course the camera. The camera is in excellent working
    order. This is 2.0 mega pixels and a 37mm lens. There is a tiny crack
    in the camera that doen't affect it operations at all. I tested the
    camera with two double A batteries and it works fine lens and all. For
    use on computer you will need to buy the software."

    Bidder info:

    Bidder 5
    Feedback: 1 to 9 • 100% Positive
    Registered on eBay: Between 3 and 4 years

    Bidder 4
    Feedback: Zero • 0% Positive
    Registered on eBay: 1 week or less

    The seller's starting bid was $9.99, and on April 8 (the last day), I
    placed the first (and my sole) one, $13. Then, as expected, there was
    a flurry of activity, with eight more bids made.

    The winner (Bidder 5) edged out Bidder 4, $202.50 to $200.00. Alas, the
    CX6200's "list price" was only $130 USD, when Kodak introduced it, in
    2003! (It's out of production, now.)

    Currently, in fact, Broadway Photo <http://www.bwayphoto.com> is selling
    the CX6200's replacement (C300, 3.3 megapixel), for $47, refurbished.

    As you can see, a few paragraphs above, Bidder 4 is a newcomer to eBay.
    His only bid was $200, after Bidder 2 posted $17.01. Within a half hour,
    Bidder 5 entered four more bids, finally nipping Bidder 4, near the end.

    Why he allowed an eBay rookie, of all people, to goad him into jacking
    up the cost to $202.50, is quite inexplicable. Both individuals must be
    absolutely clueless, about digicams!

    Sad, truly sad.

    Incidentally, eBay has recently altered its "bid history" policy:

    "To help keep the eBay community safe, enhance bidder privacy, and
    protect our members from fraudulent emails (such as fake second chance
    offers), eBay has changed how bid history information is displayed. If
    you place a bid on a higher-priced item, only you and the seller of the
    item can view your User ID in the bid history. Other members can no
    longer view User IDs and will see anonymous names, such as Bidder 1."

    It's a lucky thing, too, for Bidders 4 & 5, as thus, they were spared
    public humiliation. <g>


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>


    PS: I obtained a used CX6200 ($20, total), via eBay, in August. I really
    wanted the proprietary USB cable that was included, as Kodak is asking
    around $20, for it, alone.

    My CX6200 works okay, but, its LCD panel is dead. That's why I was
    hoping to win this auction, although, I was almost certain somebody
    would "snipe" me.
     
    John Turco, Apr 13, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:32:47 -0500, John Turco <> wrote:
    > Hello, all:
    >
    > Here's an interesting eBay <http://www.ebay.com> auction, completed on
    > 4-8-07:
    >
    > Kodak Easyshare CX6200 - Item number: 320099305950
    > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320099305950
    >
    > Bid History
    > http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=320099305950
    >
    > Bidder info:
    >
    > Bidder 5
    > Feedback: 1 to 9 • 100% Positive
    > Registered on eBay: Between 3 and 4 years
    >
    > Bidder 4
    > Feedback: Zero • 0% Positive
    > Registered on eBay: 1 week or less
    >
    > The seller's starting bid was $9.99, and on April 8 (the last day), I
    > placed the first (and my sole) one, $13. Then, as expected, there was
    > a flurry of activity, with eight more bids made.
    >
    > The winner (Bidder 5) edged out Bidder 4, $202.50 to $200.00. Alas, the
    > CX6200's "list price" was only $130 USD, when Kodak introduced it, in
    > 2003! (It's out of production, now.)
    >
    > Currently, in fact, Broadway Photo <http://www.bwayphoto.com> is selling
    > the CX6200's replacement (C300, 3.3 megapixel), for $47, refurbished.
    >
    > As you can see, a few paragraphs above, Bidder 4 is a newcomer to eBay.
    > His only bid was $200, after Bidder 2 posted $17.01. Within a half hour,
    > Bidder 5 entered four more bids, finally nipping Bidder 4, near the end.
    >
    > Why he allowed an eBay rookie, of all people, to goad him into jacking
    > up the cost to $202.50, is quite inexplicable. Both individuals must be
    > absolutely clueless, about digicams!


    Nasty thought: Could Bidder 4 be a sock-puppet of the seller, jacking
    up the price far above what was warranted?

    -dms
     
    Daniel Silevitch, Apr 13, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Daniel Silevitch <> writes:

    > Nasty thought: Could Bidder 4 be a sock-puppet of the seller, jacking
    > up the price far above what was warranted?


    Heck, if that works, I have a new business plan!
     
    Toni Nikkanen, Apr 13, 2007
    #3
  4. John Turco

    JohnR66 Guest

    One thing with low feeedback buyers. He'll be lucky to get payment.
    John


    "John Turco" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello, all:
    >
    > Here's an interesting eBay <http://www.ebay.com> auction, completed on
    > 4-8-07:
    >
    > Kodak Easyshare CX6200 - Item number: 320099305950
    > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320099305950
    >
    > Bid History
    > http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=320099305950
    >
    > The item's description:
    >
    > "Up for auction is a kodak easyshare cx6200 digital camera. The camera
    > comes with the following: 128mb card, case, tripod, instructions, usb
    > cord, and of course the camera. The camera is in excellent working
    > order. This is 2.0 mega pixels and a 37mm lens. There is a tiny crack
    > in the camera that doen't affect it operations at all. I tested the
    > camera with two double A batteries and it works fine lens and all. For
    > use on computer you will need to buy the software."
    >
    > Bidder info:
    >
    > Bidder 5
    > Feedback: 1 to 9 . 100% Positive
    > Registered on eBay: Between 3 and 4 years
    >
    > Bidder 4
    > Feedback: Zero . 0% Positive
    > Registered on eBay: 1 week or less
    >
    > The seller's starting bid was $9.99, and on April 8 (the last day), I
    > placed the first (and my sole) one, $13. Then, as expected, there was
    > a flurry of activity, with eight more bids made.
    >
    > The winner (Bidder 5) edged out Bidder 4, $202.50 to $200.00. Alas, the
    > CX6200's "list price" was only $130 USD, when Kodak introduced it, in
    > 2003! (It's out of production, now.)
    >
    > Currently, in fact, Broadway Photo <http://www.bwayphoto.com> is selling
    > the CX6200's replacement (C300, 3.3 megapixel), for $47, refurbished.
    >
    > As you can see, a few paragraphs above, Bidder 4 is a newcomer to eBay.
    > His only bid was $200, after Bidder 2 posted $17.01. Within a half hour,
    > Bidder 5 entered four more bids, finally nipping Bidder 4, near the end.
    >
    > Why he allowed an eBay rookie, of all people, to goad him into jacking
    > up the cost to $202.50, is quite inexplicable. Both individuals must be
    > absolutely clueless, about digicams!
    >
    > Sad, truly sad.
    >
    > Incidentally, eBay has recently altered its "bid history" policy:
    >
    > "To help keep the eBay community safe, enhance bidder privacy, and
    > protect our members from fraudulent emails (such as fake second chance
    > offers), eBay has changed how bid history information is displayed. If
    > you place a bid on a higher-priced item, only you and the seller of the
    > item can view your User ID in the bid history. Other members can no
    > longer view User IDs and will see anonymous names, such as Bidder 1."
    >
    > It's a lucky thing, too, for Bidders 4 & 5, as thus, they were spared
    > public humiliation. <g>
    >
    >
    > Cordially,
    > John Turco <>
    >
    >
    > PS: I obtained a used CX6200 ($20, total), via eBay, in August. I really
    > wanted the proprietary USB cable that was included, as Kodak is asking
    > around $20, for it, alone.
    >
    > My CX6200 works okay, but, its LCD panel is dead. That's why I was
    > hoping to win this auction, although, I was almost certain somebody
    > would "snipe" me.
     
    JohnR66, Apr 13, 2007
    #4
  5. In article <>, Daniel Silevitch
    <> wrote:

    > Nasty thought: Could Bidder 4 be a sock-puppet of the seller, jacking
    > up the price far above what was warranted?


    Frankly, that would be my first assumption. A friend of mine with too
    much time on her hands, likes to poke around bid histories on all the
    people interested in an item she wants. She says organized rings of
    shill bidders are much more common than people think.

    As long as they don't bid on too many items from one seller, they're
    hard to catch (hence the group).
     
    Scott Schuckert, Apr 13, 2007
    #5
  6. John Turco

    ECM Guest

    On Apr 13, 2:32 am, John Turco <> wrote:
    > Hello, all:
    >
    > Here's an interesting eBay <http://www.ebay.com> auction, completed on
    > 4-8-07:
    >
    > Kodak Easyshare CX6200 - Item number: 320099305950
    > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320099305950
    >
    > Bid History
    > http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=320099305950
    >
    > The item's description:
    >
    > "Up for auction is a kodak easyshare cx6200 digital camera. The camera
    > comes with the following: 128mb card, case, tripod, instructions, usb
    > cord, and of course the camera. The camera is in excellent working
    > order. This is 2.0 mega pixels and a 37mm lens. There is a tiny crack
    > in the camera that doen't affect it operations at all. I tested the
    > camera with two double A batteries and it works fine lens and all. For
    > use on computer you will need to buy the software."
    >
    > Bidder info:
    >
    > Bidder 5
    > Feedback: 1 to 9 · 100% Positive
    > Registered on eBay: Between 3 and 4 years
    >
    > Bidder 4
    > Feedback: Zero · 0% Positive
    > Registered on eBay: 1 week or less
    >
    > The seller's starting bid was $9.99, and on April 8 (the last day), I
    > placed the first (and my sole) one, $13. Then, as expected, there was
    > a flurry of activity, with eight more bids made.
    >
    > The winner (Bidder 5) edged out Bidder 4, $202.50 to $200.00. Alas, the
    > CX6200's "list price" was only $130 USD, when Kodak introduced it, in
    > 2003! (It's out of production, now.)
    >
    > Currently, in fact, Broadway Photo <http://www.bwayphoto.com> is selling
    > the CX6200's replacement (C300, 3.3 megapixel), for $47, refurbished.
    >
    > As you can see, a few paragraphs above, Bidder 4 is a newcomer to eBay.
    > His only bid was $200, after Bidder 2 posted $17.01. Within a half hour,
    > Bidder 5 entered four more bids, finally nipping Bidder 4, near the end.
    >
    > Why he allowed an eBay rookie, of all people, to goad him into jacking
    > up the cost to $202.50, is quite inexplicable. Both individuals must be
    > absolutely clueless, about digicams!
    >
    > Sad, truly sad.


    I wonder what was going on - if you follow the bids that #5 made, it
    might be that he was trying to put in $22.50 and accidentally slipped
    an extra zero in. The $200 bid by #4 was before #5 bid $20.50, $22.00,
    and then $202.50 - seems like a very odd bid escalation.
     
    ECM, Apr 13, 2007
    #6
  7. John Turco

    timeOday Guest

    Toni Nikkanen wrote:
    > Daniel Silevitch <> writes:
    >
    >> Nasty thought: Could Bidder 4 be a sock-puppet of the seller, jacking
    >> up the price far above what was warranted?

    >
    > Heck, if that works, I have a new business plan!


    Who knows what goes on with auctions? Maybe he has an enemy who places
    big phony bids to ruin his auctions, and then he had a buddy outbid the
    enemy so he wouldn't win and be able to leave negative feedback. Who knows?
     
    timeOday, Apr 13, 2007
    #7
  8. "ECM" <> wrote:
    >
    >I wonder what was going on - if you follow the bids that #5 made, it
    >might be that he was trying to put in $22.50 and accidentally slipped
    >an extra zero in. The $200 bid by #4 was before #5 bid $20.50, $22.00,
    >and then $202.50 - seems like a very odd bid escalation.


    You are probably correct. The increment from $200 to $202.50 is
    automatic, made by eBay and is not something the bidder did
    manually. Any bid higher than $202.50 would have resulted in
    that figure. Hence the bidder might have seen the current bid
    as something less than $20.00 (even though #4 had a maximum bid
    of $200), so he bid $20.50, and was immediately outbid (at
    $21.00). Then he bid $22.50, and again is immediately outbid
    (at $22.50). So then he accidentally types in $230.00, trying
    to bid $23.00... and bingo his bid is accepted as $202.50, which
    is the auto increment over #4's maximum bid of $200. He may not
    have noticed, or he may not have been able to figure out how to
    retract it.

    It is also quite possible that the bid of #4 was exactly the
    same type of accident! He might well have intended $20.00, not
    $200.00. Stranger things have happened.

    Whatever, the concept that there are "shill groups" running
    around randomly starting bidding wars is a bit ridiculous. What
    happens if you bid up an item and nobody suckers up with a
    higher bid? The shill then has to buy the item. That pretty
    much eliminates the concept of "shill groups" at random.

    What does happen is a seller with one or more shill logins that
    bid up that seller's items. If the shill bid wins, fine, the
    seller just "completes" the transaction on paper, pays eBay
    their fee, and reposts the item for auction again. The seller
    loses the eBay fee, but if it doubles the take on just a few
    items there is a significant profit margin.

    The indicators or course are a seller who has multiple items
    with either "new" users or the same repeat users making high
    bids on a seller's items, which could of course be quote normal.
    If the seller has a way of accessing eBay from many locations,
    the shills can even be spread far and wide. It would be
    somewhat difficult to catch, and requires analyzing multiple
    listings from the seller over time. I'd guess that happens far
    more often that eBay is willing to admit in public.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
     
    Floyd Davidson, Apr 13, 2007
    #8
  9. Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!), Apr 13, 2007
    #9
  10. John Turco

    F.R. Spicer Guest

    Ya gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em. I would check that
    item in a few days to see if it was relisted. I was bidding on a Canon
    and in the last 5 mins somebody ran it up to way over retail. The camera
    was relisted a few days later, it was paid for by a very realistic
    looking but fake paypal payment. The seller somehow twigged and
    reported it......




    Daniel Silevitch wrote:
    > On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:32:47 -0500, John Turco <> wrote:
    >> Hello, all:
    >>
    >> Here's an interesting eBay <http://www.ebay.com> auction, completed on
    >> 4-8-07:
    >>
    >> Kodak Easyshare CX6200 - Item number: 320099305950
    >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320099305950
    >>
    >> Bid History
    >> http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=320099305950
    >>
    >> Bidder info:
    >>
    >> Bidder 5
    >> Feedback: 1 to 9 • 100% Positive
    >> Registered on eBay: Between 3 and 4 years
    >>
    >> Bidder 4
    >> Feedback: Zero • 0% Positive
    >> Registered on eBay: 1 week or less
    >>
    >> The seller's starting bid was $9.99, and on April 8 (the last day), I
    >> placed the first (and my sole) one, $13. Then, as expected, there was
    >> a flurry of activity, with eight more bids made.
    >>
    >> The winner (Bidder 5) edged out Bidder 4, $202.50 to $200.00. Alas, the
    >> CX6200's "list price" was only $130 USD, when Kodak introduced it, in
    >> 2003! (It's out of production, now.)
    >>
    >> Currently, in fact, Broadway Photo <http://www.bwayphoto.com> is selling
    >> the CX6200's replacement (C300, 3.3 megapixel), for $47, refurbished.
    >>
    >> As you can see, a few paragraphs above, Bidder 4 is a newcomer to eBay.
    >> His only bid was $200, after Bidder 2 posted $17.01. Within a half hour,
    >> Bidder 5 entered four more bids, finally nipping Bidder 4, near the end.
    >>
    >> Why he allowed an eBay rookie, of all people, to goad him into jacking
    >> up the cost to $202.50, is quite inexplicable. Both individuals must be
    >> absolutely clueless, about digicams!

    >
    > Nasty thought: Could Bidder 4 be a sock-puppet of the seller, jacking
    > up the price far above what was warranted?
    >
    > -dms
     
    F.R. Spicer, Apr 13, 2007
    #10
  11. Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:

    > I've been looking for a Nikon TC-14E/II. An auction for a used one
    > just closed yesterday at a price greater than you can purchase a new
    > import model with a 1 year store warranty from Adorama. Yes, it can
    > be nuts.


    Do you think the TC-14 is going to work better on the 200-400?






    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Apr 14, 2007
    #11
  12. On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 12:17:50 GMT, "JohnR66" <> wrote:

    >One thing with low feeedback buyers. He'll be lucky to get payment.
    >John
    >


    How does one get started on Ebay other than as a low feedback user?
    >
    >"John Turco" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Hello, all:
    >>
    >> Here's an interesting eBay <http://www.ebay.com> auction, completed on
    >> 4-8-07:
    >>
    >> Kodak Easyshare CX6200 - Item number: 320099305950
    >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320099305950
    >>
    >> Bid History
    >> http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=320099305950
    >>
    >> The item's description:
    >>
    >> "Up for auction is a kodak easyshare cx6200 digital camera. The camera
    >> comes with the following: 128mb card, case, tripod, instructions, usb
    >> cord, and of course the camera. The camera is in excellent working
    >> order. This is 2.0 mega pixels and a 37mm lens. There is a tiny crack
    >> in the camera that doen't affect it operations at all. I tested the
    >> camera with two double A batteries and it works fine lens and all. For
    >> use on computer you will need to buy the software."
    >>
    >> Bidder info:
    >>
    >> Bidder 5
    >> Feedback: 1 to 9 . 100% Positive
    >> Registered on eBay: Between 3 and 4 years
    >>
    >> Bidder 4
    >> Feedback: Zero . 0% Positive
    >> Registered on eBay: 1 week or less
    >>
    >> The seller's starting bid was $9.99, and on April 8 (the last day), I
    >> placed the first (and my sole) one, $13. Then, as expected, there was
    >> a flurry of activity, with eight more bids made.
    >>
    >> The winner (Bidder 5) edged out Bidder 4, $202.50 to $200.00. Alas, the
    >> CX6200's "list price" was only $130 USD, when Kodak introduced it, in
    >> 2003! (It's out of production, now.)
    >>
    >> Currently, in fact, Broadway Photo <http://www.bwayphoto.com> is selling
    >> the CX6200's replacement (C300, 3.3 megapixel), for $47, refurbished.
    >>
    >> As you can see, a few paragraphs above, Bidder 4 is a newcomer to eBay.
    >> His only bid was $200, after Bidder 2 posted $17.01. Within a half hour,
    >> Bidder 5 entered four more bids, finally nipping Bidder 4, near the end.
    >>
    >> Why he allowed an eBay rookie, of all people, to goad him into jacking
    >> up the cost to $202.50, is quite inexplicable. Both individuals must be
    >> absolutely clueless, about digicams!
    >>
    >> Sad, truly sad.
    >>
    >> Incidentally, eBay has recently altered its "bid history" policy:
    >>
    >> "To help keep the eBay community safe, enhance bidder privacy, and
    >> protect our members from fraudulent emails (such as fake second chance
    >> offers), eBay has changed how bid history information is displayed. If
    >> you place a bid on a higher-priced item, only you and the seller of the
    >> item can view your User ID in the bid history. Other members can no
    >> longer view User IDs and will see anonymous names, such as Bidder 1."
    >>
    >> It's a lucky thing, too, for Bidders 4 & 5, as thus, they were spared
    >> public humiliation. <g>
    >>
    >>
    >> Cordially,
    >> John Turco <>
    >>
    >>
    >> PS: I obtained a used CX6200 ($20, total), via eBay, in August. I really
    >> wanted the proprietary USB cable that was included, as Kodak is asking
    >> around $20, for it, alone.
    >>
    >> My CX6200 works okay, but, its LCD panel is dead. That's why I was
    >> hoping to win this auction, although, I was almost certain somebody
    >> would "snipe" me.

    >
     
    Oliver Costich, Apr 14, 2007
    #12
  13. Oliver Costich <> wrote:
    >On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 12:17:50 GMT, "JohnR66" <> wrote:
    >
    >>One thing with low feeedback buyers. He'll be lucky to get payment.
    >>John
    >>

    >
    >How does one get started on Ebay other than as a low feedback user?


    Not all low feedback users are new to eBay. Some are just sporting
    a new identity...

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
     
    Floyd Davidson, Apr 14, 2007
    #13
  14. On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:05:52 -0500, in rec.photo.digital Rita Ä Berkowitz
    <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote:

    >Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:
    >
    >> I've been looking for a Nikon TC-14E/II. An auction for a used one
    >> just closed yesterday at a price greater than you can purchase a new
    >> import model with a 1 year store warranty from Adorama. Yes, it can
    >> be nuts.

    >
    >Do you think the TC-14 is going to work better on the 200-400?


    Now, but it allow the D200 AF to work better at a combined f/5.6 which I
    have experience with the TC-20 and 70-200mm f/2.8. Though I have ordered a
    Katz-eye MF focusing screen to try and address the use of the TC-20 with
    the 200-400. While others may be able to manually focus visually with the
    D200's standard screen, my eyes just aren't good enough to do this.
    --
    Ed Ruf ()
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
     
    Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!), Apr 14, 2007
    #14
  15. John Turco

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:59:47 -0800, Floyd Davidson <>
    wrote:

    >Whatever, the concept that there are "shill groups" running
    >around randomly starting bidding wars is a bit ridiculous. What
    >happens if you bid up an item and nobody suckers up with a
    >higher bid? The shill then has to buy the item. That pretty
    >much eliminates the concept of "shill groups" at random.


    No, he doesn't need to actually buy it. eBay has no way of knowing if
    the sale was actually made, except for what the seller says.
    If the seller gives positive feedback to the buyer, and the buyer
    gives positive feedback to the seller, and the seller pays eBay their
    cut, how would eBay know the sale never took place?

    --
    THIS IS A SIG LINE; NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

    The White House admitted on Wednesday that
    e-mails about official business in Karl Rove's
    office were erased. The deleted e-mails were
    sent on Republican Party accounts instead of
    White House accounts to avoid a law that
    requires preservation of government records.
    It doesn't clog up the landfills like Hillary's
    shredder did for eight years.
     
    Bill Funk, Apr 14, 2007
    #15
  16. Bill Funk <> wrote:
    >On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:59:47 -0800, Floyd Davidson <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Whatever, the concept that there are "shill groups" running
    >>around randomly starting bidding wars is a bit ridiculous. What
    >>happens if you bid up an item and nobody suckers up with a
    >>higher bid? The shill then has to buy the item. That pretty
    >>much eliminates the concept of "shill groups" at random.

    >
    >No, he doesn't need to actually buy it.


    Do you understand what was said? A shill that is *not* related
    to the seller is unlikely, because the high bidder is under
    contract to buy the item. No seller is going to just say, "Hey
    thanks for trying to run the price up." to a *random* group of
    shill bidders out having fun. That is ridiculous, but that was
    what was claimed to exist. It doesn't.

    >eBay has no way of knowing if
    >the sale was actually made, except for what the seller says.
    >If the seller gives positive feedback to the buyer, and the buyer
    >gives positive feedback to the seller, and the seller pays eBay their
    >cut, how would eBay know the sale never took place?


    You are not addressing what the quoted paragraph discusses, but
    instead are speaking to what was discussed in text that you have
    snipped. What is the point is snipping my discussion of exactly
    that, and then writing as if I'd never said it?

    When the seller *is* the shill, that is exactly what happens,
    and eBay will be extremely hard pressed to determine if there
    actually was no sale. The only real clue is for an item which
    is odd (one of a kind) and is again offered for sale by the same
    seller. More likely the seller will use shill bidding only on
    items clearly being sold from an inventory of many.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
     
    Floyd Davidson, Apr 14, 2007
    #16
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