Analyst says MS Office to fall to open source

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 15, 2006
    #1
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  2. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Philip Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/2198/53/
    >
    > As it should be. :>)
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >

    but as a longtime user of OpenOffice,there are substantial issues that
    still need to be addressed.

    1.Documentation. The help files are more often than not
    self-congratulatory and obscure.This is a common failing with GNU and
    FOSS: the doc files are written in expert mode, and questions about "how
    do I do this" have to be posted on obscure discussion groups and all
    too often are answered with a sneer or an incomprehensible reference to
    some other web page.

    2. Performance. Open Office feels like it takes longer to load. It also
    seems quite difficult to set it up to reflect my preferences. That
    pisses me.

    3. File & directory handling. It's not always immediately apparent why
    OO is putting my work in the folder it has chosen.

    All of which being said, OO is the only office product on most of the
    computers here - because it's functional, I know how to work it and it
    didn't cost anything.

    I have nothing against Microsoft's office products beyond a niggle about
    feature bloat. MS Word works, Excel, to one who grew up on Lotus 123, is
    paradise regained, and Access does seem better than DBase II did.

    So what I would hope would be that the FOSS community would polish its
    offerings so that they install easily, run fast and don't confront the
    user with a load of choices they'd rather not have to make.

    Presently I reckon they're at 90%.

    Philip
    Philip, Mar 15, 2006
    #2
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  3. On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:00:26 +1300, Philip wrote:

    > but as a longtime user of OpenOffice,there are substantial issues that
    > still need to be addressed.
    >
    > 1.Documentation. The help files are more often than not
    > self-congratulatory and obscure.This is a common failing with GNU and
    > FOSS: the doc files are written in expert mode, and questions about "how
    > do I do this" have to be posted on obscure discussion groups and all
    > too often are answered with a sneer or an incomprehensible reference to
    > some other web page.


    Perhaps a website dedicated to answering users' questions about GPL'd Open
    Source software will be a good start.

    Actually, that gives me an idea...


    > 2. Performance. Open Office feels like it takes longer to load. It also
    > seems quite difficult to set it up to reflect my preferences. That
    > pisses me.
    >
    > 3. File & directory handling. It's not always immediately apparent why
    > OO is putting my work in the folder it has chosen.


    I always specify where I save stuff - I don't leave it to chance.

    <snip>

    > So what I would hope would be that the FOSS community would polish its
    > offerings so that they install easily, run fast and don't confront the
    > user with a load of choices they'd rather not have to make.
    >
    > Presently I reckon they're at 90%.


    Yes - I agree that startup times for OOo are not good; and documentation
    could be better.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 15, 2006
    #3
  4. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    RJ Guest

    RJ, Mar 15, 2006
    #4
  5. On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:18:22 +1300, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    scrawl:

    > In article <>, says...
    >> http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/2198/53/
    >>
    >> As it should be. :>)
    >>

    >
    > Bullcrap! America is not a commie country. Most of em will do deals with
    > MS and your wet dream will never happen!


    What does "commie" have to do with it? I thought it was the height of
    capitalist dogma to look for the cheapest product that is capable of doing
    the required job?
    And what does "commie" have to do with state bodies recognising that they
    have a duty to the public to store information in open formats to aid in
    keeping that information accessible for years to come? ODF isn't "commie"
    it's responsible - Massachusetts has recognised that its duty is not to
    the profits of a convicted monopolist, but to the citizens of the
    commonwealth.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
    Matthew Poole, Mar 16, 2006
    #5
  6. On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:42:01 +1300, Matthew Poole wrote:

    > What does "commie" have to do with it? I thought it was the height of
    > capitalist dogma to look for the cheapest product that is capable of doing
    > the required job?
    > And what does "commie" have to do with state bodies recognising that they
    > have a duty to the public to store information in open formats to aid in
    > keeping that information accessible for years to come? ODF isn't "commie"
    > it's responsible - Massachusetts has recognised that its duty is not to
    > the profits of a convicted monopolist, but to the citizens of the
    > commonwealth.


    Shhh!

    Don't say that too loudly - rj might actually learn and understand
    something about Free software. ;o)


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 16, 2006
    #6
  7. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:18:22 +1300, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    >
    >>In article <>, says...
    >>
    >>>http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/2198/53/
    >>>
    >>>As it should be. :>)
    >>>

    >>
    >>Bullcrap! America is not a commie country. Most of em will do deals with
    >>MS and your wet dream will never happen!


    > What does "commie" have to do with it? I thought it was the height of
    > capitalist dogma to look for the cheapest product that is capable of doing
    > the required job?
    > And what does "commie" have to do with state bodies recognising that they
    > have a duty to the public to store information in open formats to aid in
    > keeping that information accessible for years to come? ODF isn't "commie"
    > it's responsible - Massachusetts has recognised that its duty is not to
    > the profits of a convicted monopolist, but to the citizens of the
    > commonwealth.
    >


    Why are you arguing with a loony?

    As usual (must be an Amercian), only thinking in terms of the USA, there
    is the rest of the world, so even if the USA does a deal and shoots
    itself in the head the rest of the world does not have to follow.

    regards

    Thing
    , Mar 16, 2006
    #7
  8. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    RJ Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:18:22 +1300, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    > > In article <>, says...
    > >> http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/2198/53/
    > >>
    > >> As it should be. :>)
    > >>

    > >
    > > Bullcrap! America is not a commie country. Most of em will do deals with
    > > MS and your wet dream will never happen!

    >
    > What does "commie" have to do with it? I thought it was the height of
    > capitalist dogma to look for the cheapest product that is capable of doing
    > the required job?


    You don't know much about capitalist countries like the US do you
    Open source is practically all socialists trying to undermine capitalism

    > And what does "commie" have to do with state bodies recognising that they
    > have a duty to the public to store information in open formats to aid in
    > keeping that information accessible for years to come? ODF isn't "commie"
    > it's responsible - Massachusetts has recognised that its duty is not to
    > the profits of a convicted monopolist, but to the citizens of the
    > commonwealth.


    They can archive in PDF and continue to use Word etc on a daily basis
    I'ts all Commie propaganda bull
    RJ, Mar 18, 2006
    #8
  9. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    RJ Guest

    In article <>, says...
    > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:42:01 +1300, Matthew Poole wrote:
    >
    > > What does "commie" have to do with it? I thought it was the height of
    > > capitalist dogma to look for the cheapest product that is capable of doing
    > > the required job?
    > > And what does "commie" have to do with state bodies recognising that they
    > > have a duty to the public to store information in open formats to aid in
    > > keeping that information accessible for years to come? ODF isn't "commie"
    > > it's responsible - Massachusetts has recognised that its duty is not to
    > > the profits of a convicted monopolist, but to the citizens of the
    > > commonwealth.

    >
    > Shhh!
    >
    > Don't say that too loudly - rj might actually learn and understand
    > something about Free software. ;o)


    "Free Software" can be proprieatry

    You meant to say "Free Software Foundation" the vanguard of the commie
    open source movement
    RJ, Mar 18, 2006
    #9
  10. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    RJ Guest

    In article <>,
    y says...
    > Matthew Poole wrote:
    > > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:18:22 +1300, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    > > scrawl:
    > >
    > >
    > >>In article <>, says...
    > >>
    > >>>http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/2198/53/
    > >>>
    > >>>As it should be. :>)
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>Bullcrap! America is not a commie country. Most of em will do deals with
    > >>MS and your wet dream will never happen!

    >
    > > What does "commie" have to do with it? I thought it was the height of
    > > capitalist dogma to look for the cheapest product that is capable of doing
    > > the required job?
    > > And what does "commie" have to do with state bodies recognising that they
    > > have a duty to the public to store information in open formats to aid in
    > > keeping that information accessible for years to come? ODF isn't "commie"
    > > it's responsible - Massachusetts has recognised that its duty is not to
    > > the profits of a convicted monopolist, but to the citizens of the
    > > commonwealth.
    > >

    >
    > Why are you arguing with a loony?


    Are you the lony
    You have no proof of your claims
    Admit it you are just a moron who can't debate with anyone who doesn't
    parrot your party line

    > As usual (must be an Amercian), only thinking in terms of the USA, there
    > is the rest of the world, so even if the USA does a deal and shoots
    > itself in the head the rest of the world does not have to follow.


    Thats right who cares of the rest of the world
    All US haters can go take a running jump
    RJ, Mar 18, 2006
    #10
  11. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Guest

    RJ wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    > > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:18:22 +1300, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    > > scrawl:
    > >
    > > > In article <>, says...
    > > >> http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/2198/53/
    > > >>
    > > >> As it should be. :>)
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > > Bullcrap! America is not a commie country. Most of em will do deals with
    > > > MS and your wet dream will never happen!

    > >
    > > What does "commie" have to do with it? I thought it was the height of
    > > capitalist dogma to look for the cheapest product that is capable of doing
    > > the required job?

    >
    > You don't know much about capitalist countries like the US do you
    > Open source is practically all socialists trying to undermine capitalism


    Regardless of whether you consider OSS to be "socialist" or not will
    not make any difference to those capitalist (and non-capitalist)
    enterprises who utilise it.

    People will use OSS because it is secure, stable, interoperable,
    open-source and free.

    If you want to use insecure, unstable, OS/application specific
    proprietory, and expensive software, that's your choice.

    If you *really* prefer that the you shouldn't be using the TCP/IP
    protocol. Use netbeui or something like that. Except you'll there is
    problems routing packets ;-)

    On-topic to the thread, I would say that MS Office is in serious
    trouble. At several hundred dollars a shot the only thing in that
    OpenOffice.org really can't compete with yet is Access - and in any
    case there's MySQL.


    Regards,



    Lev (at the Ballarat Linux Install fest - another 50 people today now
    using Linux)

    >
    > > And what does "commie" have to do with state bodies recognising that they
    > > have a duty to the public to store information in open formats to aid in
    > > keeping that information accessible for years to come? ODF isn't "commie"
    > > it's responsible - Massachusetts has recognised that its duty is not to
    > > the profits of a convicted monopolist, but to the citizens of the
    > > commonwealth.

    >
    > They can archive in PDF and continue to use Word etc on a daily basis
    > I'ts all Commie propaganda bull
    , Mar 18, 2006
    #11
  12. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    "" <> wrote:


    > On-topic to the thread, I would say that MS Office is in serious
    > trouble. At several hundred dollars a shot the only thing in that
    > OpenOffice.org really can't compete with yet is Access - and in any
    > case there's MySQL.



    Open Office
    Doesn't support Mathtype
    Doesn't support Endnote
    Not supported by professional magazines for article submission

    Its also not 100% compatible.

    The cost of software is irrelevant, its FUD, fact is if you can make
    your staff more productive by only 4 hours (at a charge out rate of
    $50/hr) then the software has paid for its self. Where you have charge
    out rates of 200-300/hr then its only 1 hours worth.
    whoisthis, Mar 18, 2006
    #12
  13. On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:06:08 +1300, whoisthis wrote:

    > The cost of software is irrelevant, its FUD, fact is if you can make
    > your staff more productive by only 4 hours (at a charge out rate of
    > $50/hr) then the software has paid for its self. Where you have charge
    > out rates of 200-300/hr then its only 1 hours worth.


    Do you really have staff that you charge out at $200-300/hour for using
    Micro$oft Office?

    Really?


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 18, 2006
    #13
  14. On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:06:08 +1300, whoisthis wrote:

    > Not supported by professional magazines for article submission


    Why should a "professional" magazine support a software product?

    Surely the developers of proprietary software products should do the
    supporting - not a publishing house.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 18, 2006
    #14
  15. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea <> wrote:

    > On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:06:08 +1300, whoisthis wrote:
    >
    > > Not supported by professional magazines for article submission

    >
    > Why should a "professional" magazine support a software product?
    >
    > Surely the developers of proprietary software products should do the
    > supporting - not a publishing house.
    >


    DUH... try data format, and no open office is not close enough
    whoisthis, Mar 18, 2006
    #15
  16. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea <> wrote:

    > On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:06:08 +1300, whoisthis wrote:
    >
    > > The cost of software is irrelevant, its FUD, fact is if you can make
    > > your staff more productive by only 4 hours (at a charge out rate of
    > > $50/hr) then the software has paid for its self. Where you have charge
    > > out rates of 200-300/hr then its only 1 hours worth.

    >
    > Do you really have staff that you charge out at $200-300/hour for using
    > Micro$oft Office?
    >
    > Really?


    Yes, and more.
    whoisthis, Mar 18, 2006
    #16
  17. "Have A Nice Cup of Tea" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:42:01 +1300, Matthew Poole wrote:


    > Don't say that too loudly - rj might actually learn and understand
    > something about Free software. ;o)


    rj?

    You mean Dunford don't you?
    persona non gratia, Mar 18, 2006
    #17
  18. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    shannon Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > "" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>On-topic to the thread, I would say that MS Office is in serious
    >>trouble. At several hundred dollars a shot the only thing in that
    >>OpenOffice.org really can't compete with yet is Access - and in any
    >>case there's MySQL.

    >
    >
    >
    > Open Office
    > Doesn't support Mathtype
    > Doesn't support Endnote
    > Not supported by professional magazines for article submission
    >
    > Its also not 100% compatible.
    >
    > The cost of software is irrelevant, its FUD, fact is if you can make
    > your staff more productive by only 4 hours (at a charge out rate of
    > $50/hr) then the software has paid for its self. Where you have charge
    > out rates of 200-300/hr then its only 1 hours worth.


    It looks like there are openoffice users who are pretty keen to add
    those capabilities, althought they are not required by most potential users.

    http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/software/jex/
    http://bibliographic.openoffice.org/
    shannon, Mar 18, 2006
    #18
  19. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Max Burke Guest

    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea scribbled:

    >> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:06:08 +1300, whoisthis wrote:


    >> Not supported by professional magazines for article submission


    > Why should a "professional" magazine support a software product?
    > Surely the developers of proprietary software products should do the
    > supporting - not a publishing house.


    For electronic submissions of articles/editorial content for the magazine.
    I would have thought that you realised that was what the OP was refering to.

    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
    Max Burke, Mar 18, 2006
    #19
  20. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:06:08 +1300, whoisthis wrote:
    >
    > > The cost of software is irrelevant, its FUD, fact is if you can make
    > > your staff more productive by only 4 hours (at a charge out rate of
    > > $50/hr) then the software has paid for its self. Where you have charge
    > > out rates of 200-300/hr then its only 1 hours worth.

    >
    > Do you really have staff that you charge out at $200-300/hour for using
    > Micro$oft Office?
    >


    An extremely good MS-Access DBA who knows *everything* off the top of
    his head regarding that app (especially VB) and can integrate with
    MS-SQL server with a minimum of fuss *might* be able to get $100 p/h on
    casual rates. A more realistic figure is about $50 p/h for a
    more-or-less permanent position. $200/$300 per hour is just bullshit.
    , Mar 18, 2006
    #20
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