Analogue FXO cards

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Jono, Aug 6, 2007.

  1. Jono

    Jono Guest

    Jono, Aug 6, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. In article <jVFti.1771$>,
    Jono <> wrote:
    >Hello,
    >
    >Anyone got any comments on suitable analogue cards for Asterisk/Trixbox?
    >
    >I've been looking at
    >http://www.voipon.co.uk/rhino-quad-fxo-analog-pci-plugin-card-r4fxo-p-305.html
    >
    >Any tips on manufacturer or supplier?


    If you're using Asterisk, the obvious choice is Digium - the TDM400 range.

    However I've not had a terribly good user experience with Digium analogue
    cards. (Nor with digiums suggestions - weekly tuning isn't acceptable!)

    The biggest issue you'll have with analogue (any card) is echo - or the
    cancellation of echo, as you'll get plenty of echo most of the time.

    But if you have good quality BT analogue lines then they might work
    for you. They do have the advantage of being flexible in the combination
    of FXO and FXS ports you can have on one card (up to 4 ports of any type
    on the TDM400 range) which might make them cheaper than others which have
    channels fitted you'll never use.

    Your alternatives are the Rhino ones above and Sangoma (which have come
    highly recomended to me from other sources)

    Eg.

    http://www.voipon.co.uk/sangoma-a200-fxo-fxs-analogue-card-pcix-p-392.html

    or the Digium ones, depending on your port requirement and budget.

    Another alternative might be an ATA of some kind that provides an FXO port.

    If you're dabbling at home, then you might be able to get an x100p card for
    under 20 quid, but finding one seems a bit hard these days. eBay sometimes
    turns a few up - eg. see item # 140143276793 ...

    Good luck!

    Gordon
    Gordon Henderson, Aug 6, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Jono

    Jono Guest

    "Gordon Henderson" <> wrote in message
    news:46b73a50$0$24751$...
    > In article <jVFti.1771$>,
    > Jono <> wrote:
    >>Hello,
    >>
    >>Anyone got any comments on suitable analogue cards for Asterisk/Trixbox?
    >>
    >>I've been looking at
    >>http://www.voipon.co.uk/rhino-quad-fxo-analog-pci-plugin-card-r4fxo-p-305.html
    >>
    >>Any tips on manufacturer or supplier?

    >
    > If you're using Asterisk, the obvious choice is Digium - the TDM400 range.


    Yep.

    > However I've not had a terribly good user experience with Digium analogue
    > cards. (Nor with digiums suggestions - weekly tuning isn't acceptable!)


    So I've heard too - hence looking at the Rhino

    > The biggest issue you'll have with analogue (any card) is echo - or the
    > cancellation of echo, as you'll get plenty of echo most of the time.


    Oh dear.

    > But if you have good quality BT analogue lines then they might work
    > for you. They do have the advantage of being flexible in the combination
    > of FXO and FXS ports you can have on one card (up to 4 ports of any type
    > on the TDM400 range) which might make them cheaper than others which have
    > channels fitted you'll never use.
    >
    > Your alternatives are the Rhino ones above and Sangoma (which have come
    > highly recomended to me from other sources)
    >
    > Eg.
    >
    >
    > http://www.voipon.co.uk/sangoma-a200-fxo-fxs-analogue-card-pcix-p-392.html
    >
    > or the Digium ones, depending on your port requirement and budget.
    >
    > Another alternative might be an ATA of some kind that provides an FXO
    > port.


    Wouldn't really want to stick 4 x SPA3102s on a four-line multi-line.......

    > If you're dabbling at home, then you might be able to get an x100p card
    > for
    > under 20 quid, but finding one seems a bit hard these days. eBay sometimes
    > turns a few up - eg. see item # 140143276793 ...


    I got one, though was never very happy with the call quality - I might
    actually use it at home on a door phone. Have you got any suggestions for
    how to accomplish door latch opening?
    Jono, Aug 6, 2007
    #3
  4. In article <F4Hti.1841$>,
    Jono <> wrote:
    >> But if you have good quality BT analogue lines then they might work
    >> for you. They do have the advantage of being flexible in the combination
    >> of FXO and FXS ports you can have on one card (up to 4 ports of any type
    >> on the TDM400 range) which might make them cheaper than others which have
    >> channels fitted you'll never use.
    >>
    >> Your alternatives are the Rhino ones above and Sangoma (which have come
    >> highly recomended to me from other sources)
    >>
    >> Eg.
    >>
    >>
    >> http://www.voipon.co.uk/sangoma-a200-fxo-fxs-analogue-card-pcix-p-392.html
    >>
    >> or the Digium ones, depending on your port requirement and budget.
    >>
    >> Another alternative might be an ATA of some kind that provides an FXO
    >> port.

    >
    >Wouldn't really want to stick 4 x SPA3102s on a four-line multi-line.......


    OK, you're looking at 4 incoming lines. I think you flip a coin between the
    Sangoma and Rhino cards - unless someone else here who'd used either can
    give advice ...

    >> If you're dabbling at home, then you might be able to get an x100p card
    >> for
    >> under 20 quid, but finding one seems a bit hard these days. eBay sometimes
    >> turns a few up - eg. see item # 140143276793 ...

    >
    >I got one, though was never very happy with the call quality - I might
    >actually use it at home on a door phone. Have you got any suggestions for
    >how to accomplish door latch opening?


    This always struck me as odd... So you assuming you don't want to walk to
    the door, for whatever reason, but you've already run some wires down
    there, then just run some more and connect them to a big red button
    somewhere...

    But I guess you want to dial an extension and have it "do something"...

    It's a shame this:

    http://www.xorcom.com/products/astribank/astribank_6fxs_2fxo

    doesn't have the FXS/FXO ports the other way round, but I guess it makes
    a useful unit for a small office, just USB plug it into an asterisk box
    and hook up cheap analogue phones... Xorcom have bigger units with more
    FXO ports but it's not clear what your budget is...

    Gordon
    Gordon Henderson, Aug 6, 2007
    #4
  5. Jono

    Paul Hayes Guest

    Jono wrote:

    >
    > I got one, though was never very happy with the call quality - I might
    > actually use it at home on a door phone. Have you got any suggestions for
    > how to accomplish door latch opening?
    >
    >


    I reckon your best bet would be to find a suitable device for an
    analogue PBX and connect it to a spare FXS port or ATA. I'm aware of a
    company who were planning on making a SIP version of such a device, I
    spoke to them recently and they seem to have made little or no progress
    with it. As soon as someone makes a SIP door entry system that works
    properly (!), I'll be selling them!

    cheers,
    Paul.

    --
    Working Email:

    paul-at-polog40-dot-co-dot-uk
    Paul Hayes, Aug 6, 2007
    #5
  6. Jono

    alexd Guest

    Jono wrote:

    >> Another alternative might be an ATA of some kind that provides an FXO
    >> port.

    >
    > Wouldn't really want to stick 4 x SPA3102s on a four-line
    > multi-line.......
    >


    So try a Linksys SPA-400 then :)

    http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Linksys-Cisco SPA400

    120-150GBP AFAICT.

    >> [stuff about X100Ps and clones]


    > I got one, though was never very happy with the call quality - I might
    > actually use it at home on a door phone. Have you got any suggestions for
    > how to accomplish door latch opening?


    If you're a climb-Everest-because-its-there kind of person, embedded linux
    routers tend to come with GPIO [general purpose I/O] pins that can be
    controlled from the OS. Failing that, I'm sure someone will suggest
    something more sensible soon enough.

    I'm sure there's a market for a PoE SIP video entry phone thing.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    17:20:54 up 19 days, 23:05, 3 users, load average: 0.63, 0.69, 0.84
    09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0
    alexd, Aug 6, 2007
    #6
  7. Jono

    Jono Guest

    "Paul Hayes" <> wrote in message
    news:46b743c8$0$642$...
    > Jono wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I got one, though was never very happy with the call quality - I might
    >> actually use it at home on a door phone. Have you got any suggestions for
    >> how to accomplish door latch opening?

    >
    > I reckon your best bet would be to find a suitable device for an analogue
    > PBX and connect it to a spare FXS port or ATA. I'm aware of a company who
    > were planning on making a SIP version of such a device, I spoke to them
    > recently and they seem to have made little or no progress with it. As
    > soon as someone makes a SIP door entry system that works properly (!),
    > I'll be selling them!


    Something like this http://www.homephone.com/products/28bf/28bf.htm coupled
    with this http://www.homephone.com/products/28sw/Dp28sw.htm and any ATA
    would work, I think......
    Jono, Aug 6, 2007
    #7
  8. In article <46b743c8$0$642$>,
    Paul Hayes <> wrote:
    >Jono wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I got one, though was never very happy with the call quality - I might
    >> actually use it at home on a door phone. Have you got any suggestions for
    >> how to accomplish door latch opening?
    >>
    >>

    >
    >I reckon your best bet would be to find a suitable device for an
    >analogue PBX and connect it to a spare FXS port or ATA. I'm aware of a
    >company who were planning on making a SIP version of such a device, I
    >spoke to them recently and they seem to have made little or no progress
    >with it. As soon as someone makes a SIP door entry system that works
    >properly (!), I'll be selling them!


    I reckon it wouldn't be hard to take an existing FXS port and
    use the 48VAC "ring" to trigger a circuit that activated a relay and a
    timer for eg. 5 seconds with it resetting the timer on ever "ring". A
    keen hobbyist could knock this up for under £100 I reckon, including
    the cost of a cheap ATA with an FXS port to give it "SIP" compatability.

    Hm. maybe even rectifying the AC, dumping it into a big capacitor might
    yield enough current to keep a sensitve relay open for a few seconds anyway.
    (yes, I know you'll likely have issues with the inductance of the relay,
    capacitor to smooth the signal and the incoming AC, but I'm sure these
    can be overcome...)

    However it's been 20 years since I was "seriously" enough into dabbling
    with electronics to tackle it, and turning it into a production item
    might be somewhat tricky... However if it was possible to do it with the
    suggestion above, then you could have a completely self comtained system
    that would plug into any ATA and not require an additional PSU to control
    it, and that might just be a very attractive little device to offer ...

    Gordon
    Gordon Henderson, Aug 6, 2007
    #8
  9. Jono

    Jono Guest

    Gordon Henderson expressed precisely :

    > This always struck me as odd... So you assuming you don't want to walk to
    > the door, for whatever reason, but you've already run some wires down
    > there, then just run some more and connect them to a big red button
    > somewhere...
    >
    > But I guess you want to dial an extension and have it "do something"...


    Haha. I'd like to assign a DDI to my door ;-)
    Jono, Aug 6, 2007
    #9
  10. Jono

    Graham. Guest

    "Jono" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Gordon Henderson expressed precisely :
    >
    >> This always struck me as odd... So you assuming you don't want to walk to
    >> the door, for whatever reason, but you've already run some wires down
    >> there, then just run some more and connect them to a big red button
    >> somewhere...
    >>
    >> But I guess you want to dial an extension and have it "do something"...

    >
    > Haha. I'd like to assign a DDI to my door ;-)


    And a port number.

    --

    Graham.
    %Profound_observation%
    Graham., Aug 6, 2007
    #10
  11. Jono

    Guest Guest

    "Jono" <> wrote in message
    news:jVFti.1771$...
    > Hello,
    >
    > Anyone got any comments on suitable analogue cards for Asterisk/Trixbox?
    >
    > I've been looking at
    > http://www.voipon.co.uk/rhino-quad-fxo-analog-pci-plugin-card-r4fxo-p-305.html
    >
    > Any tips on manufacturer or supplier?
    >
    > Thank you.


    Jono,

    The Sangoma A200E is the dogs albeit quite pricey. Easy to install and has
    hardware echo cancellation.

    If you get a Digium TDM400 you can get 4 channels of HPEC (Digiums high
    performance echo cancellation) software worth $40 fee of charge. The last
    time I tried HPEC it was a disaster but I understand it has come a long way
    since.

    The next analogue install I do, I will base my quote on the Sangoma, install
    a Digium and have a Sangoma up my sleeve incase the echo becomes a problem.
    Guest, Aug 6, 2007
    #11
  12. Jono

    Lurch Guest

    Re: Re: Analogue FXO cards

    On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:24:20 GMT, <> mused:

    >
    >"Jono" <> wrote in message
    >news:jVFti.1771$...
    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> Anyone got any comments on suitable analogue cards for Asterisk/Trixbox?
    >>
    >> I've been looking at
    >> http://www.voipon.co.uk/rhino-quad-fxo-analog-pci-plugin-card-r4fxo-p-305.html
    >>
    >> Any tips on manufacturer or supplier?
    >>
    >> Thank you.

    >
    >Jono,
    >
    >The Sangoma A200E is the dogs albeit quite pricey. Easy to install and has
    >hardware echo cancellation.
    >
    >If you get a Digium TDM400 you can get 4 channels of HPEC (Digiums high
    >performance echo cancellation) software worth $40 fee of charge. The last
    >time I tried HPEC it was a disaster but I understand it has come a long way
    >since.
    >
    >The next analogue install I do, I will base my quote on the Sangoma, install
    >a Digium and have a Sangoma up my sleeve incase the echo becomes a problem.
    >

    That sounds a bit cowboyish, unless I've misread your post somehow.
    Price for the better one but install the cheaper one and hope no-one
    notices?
    --
    Regards,
    Stuart.
    Lurch, Aug 6, 2007
    #12
  13. Jono

    Lurch Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Analogue FXO cards

    On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:31:47 +0100, Lurch
    <> mused:

    >On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:24:20 GMT, <> mused:
    >
    >>
    >>"Jono" <> wrote in message
    >>news:jVFti.1771$...
    >>> Hello,
    >>>
    >>> Anyone got any comments on suitable analogue cards for Asterisk/Trixbox?
    >>>
    >>> I've been looking at
    >>> http://www.voipon.co.uk/rhino-quad-fxo-analog-pci-plugin-card-r4fxo-p-305.html
    >>>
    >>> Any tips on manufacturer or supplier?
    >>>
    >>> Thank you.

    >>
    >>Jono,
    >>
    >>The Sangoma A200E is the dogs albeit quite pricey. Easy to install and has
    >>hardware echo cancellation.
    >>
    >>If you get a Digium TDM400 you can get 4 channels of HPEC (Digiums high
    >>performance echo cancellation) software worth $40 fee of charge. The last
    >>time I tried HPEC it was a disaster but I understand it has come a long way
    >>since.
    >>
    >>The next analogue install I do, I will base my quote on the Sangoma, install
    >>a Digium and have a Sangoma up my sleeve incase the echo becomes a problem.
    >>

    >That sounds a bit cowboyish, unless I've misread your post somehow.
    >Price for the better one but install the cheaper one and hope no-one
    >notices?


    Hmm, you don't actually know how to wire up telephones so I take back
    the above remark. You are a cowboy and go in on a wing and a prayer
    and scam as many people as you can.
    --
    Regards,
    Stuart.
    Lurch, Aug 6, 2007
    #13
  14. Jono

    Guest Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Analogue FXO cards

    > Hmm, you don't actually know how to wire up telephones so I take back the
    > above remark. You are a cowboy and go in on a wing and a prayer and scam
    > as many people as you can.
    > --
    > Regards,
    > Stuart.


    For the benefit of those who are wondering was Stuart is on about, I asked
    over at uk.telecom what the third wire in a BT telephone socket was used
    for. In Stuarts opinion this makes me a cowboy.

    I have only wired about 2 BT extensions in my professional life, it isn't a
    service I offer but I was helping someone out recently and wondered what the
    third wire was for.

    I do however offer VOIP systems which interface to the PSTN although they
    don't normally require me to install analogue extensions of the type
    mentioned above.

    As for the analogue interface card issue, I will use a genuine Digium card
    where possible but make sure there is sufficient profit in the deal to cover
    the cost of a higher spec card in the occasional case that one is required.
    When nothing else works to cure real bad echo, in my experience I can rely
    on the Sangoma A200E.

    Nothing cowboy about making sure I am able to provide a satisfactory service
    to the customer whilst making sufficient profit to remain in business long
    enough to be there if there is a problem in the future.

    And yes I did ask over at uk.telecom what the third wire in a phone socket
    was for as I only got into telephony about 3 years ago and it has been
    primarily VOIP. I don't do extensions.

    So Stuart - I don't know other influence caused you to insult me but it
    really was uncalled for.

    I won't lose sleep over it though.


    Sean
    Guest, Aug 7, 2007
    #14
  15. Jono

    Lurch Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Analogue FXO cards

    On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:28:22 GMT, <> mused:

    >> Hmm, you don't actually know how to wire up telephones so I take back the
    >> above remark. You are a cowboy and go in on a wing and a prayer and scam
    >> as many people as you can.
    >> --
    >> Regards,
    >> Stuart.

    >
    >For the benefit of those who are wondering was Stuart is on about, I asked
    >over at uk.telecom what the third wire in a BT telephone socket was used
    >for. In Stuarts opinion this makes me a cowboy.
    >
    >I have only wired about 2 BT extensions in my professional life, it isn't a
    >service I offer but I was helping someone out recently and wondered what the
    >third wire was for.
    >
    >I do however offer VOIP systems which interface to the PSTN although they
    >don't normally require me to install analogue extensions of the type
    >mentioned above.
    >
    >As for the analogue interface card issue, I will use a genuine Digium card
    >where possible but make sure there is sufficient profit in the deal to cover
    >the cost of a higher spec card in the occasional case that one is required.
    >When nothing else works to cure real bad echo, in my experience I can rely
    >on the Sangoma A200E.
    >
    >Nothing cowboy about making sure I am able to provide a satisfactory service
    >to the customer whilst making sufficient profit to remain in business long
    >enough to be there if there is a problem in the future.
    >
    >And yes I did ask over at uk.telecom what the third wire in a phone socket
    >was for as I only got into telephony about 3 years ago and it has been
    >primarily VOIP. I don't do extensions.
    >
    >So Stuart - I don't know other influence caused you to insult me but it
    >really was uncalled for.
    >
    >I won't lose sleep over it though.
    >

    Righto.
    --
    Regards,
    Stuart.
    Lurch, Aug 8, 2007
    #15
  16. Jono

    Clint Sharp Guest

    In message <46b74e2b$0$24756$>, Gordon Henderson
    <> writes
    >In article <46b743c8$0$642$>,
    >Paul Hayes <> wrote:
    >However it's been 20 years since I was "seriously" enough into dabbling
    >with electronics to tackle it, and turning it into a production item
    >might be somewhat tricky... However if it was possible to do it with the
    >suggestion above, then you could have a completely self comtained system
    >that would plug into any ATA and not require an additional PSU to control
    >it, and that might just be a very attractive little device to offer ...

    Decode DTMF into a relay driver, tap into the speaker on the door phone.
    I assume you can send DTMF over VOIP or am I being *way* too simplistic
    here?
    >
    >Gordon


    --
    Clint Sharp
    Clint Sharp, Aug 8, 2007
    #16
  17. In article <IGgqVrNv$>,
    Clint Sharp <> wrote:
    >In message <46b74e2b$0$24756$>, Gordon Henderson
    ><> writes
    >>In article <46b743c8$0$642$>,
    >>Paul Hayes <> wrote:
    >>However it's been 20 years since I was "seriously" enough into dabbling
    >>with electronics to tackle it, and turning it into a production item
    >>might be somewhat tricky... However if it was possible to do it with the
    >>suggestion above, then you could have a completely self comtained system
    >>that would plug into any ATA and not require an additional PSU to control
    >>it, and that might just be a very attractive little device to offer ...


    >Decode DTMF into a relay driver, tap into the speaker on the door phone.
    >I assume you can send DTMF over VOIP or am I being *way* too simplistic
    >here?


    Not too simplistic, quite the opposite IMO! To decode DTMF in a VoIP
    stream you need to start with an Ethernet (ot other sort of network
    connection) then you'll need to implement a SIP stack once you've done
    the IP stack and the Ethernet driver, then a CPU of some sort of control
    it all, then... And by the time you're finished, you have most of what
    might be inside an existing ATA minus the audio hardware...

    OR

    You have a device that connects to an existing FXS port (analogue port
    on a PBX or an ATA), then you can have it "answer" the phone and then
    "listen" and decode DTMF in your case, or simply "answer" the phone and
    open the door (in my case) My suggestion was to use the actual "ring"
    voltage to trigger a relay directly - you'll get ~50VAC at probably a
    good few mA which I reckon ought to be enough to trigger a sensitive
    machanical relay (via a suitable rectifying/smoothing circuit)

    Gordon
    Gordon Henderson, Aug 9, 2007
    #17
  18. Jono

    Clint Sharp Guest

    In message <46bac83c$0$24748$>, Gordon Henderson
    <> writes
    >Not too simplistic, quite the opposite IMO! To decode DTMF in a VoIP
    >stream you need to start with an Ethernet (ot other sort of network
    >connection) then you'll need to implement a SIP stack once you've done
    >the IP stack and the Ethernet driver, then a CPU of some sort of control
    >it all, then...

    Ahh, you misunderstand, I meant he decodes DTMF by tapping off some of
    the audio from the speaker and feeding that to his decoder circuit. I
    assume whatever he has fitted at the door will already convert to
    audible signals?
    >And by the time you're finished, you have most of what
    >might be inside an existing ATA minus the audio hardware...
    >
    >OR
    >
    >You have a device that connects to an existing FXS port (analogue port
    >on a PBX or an ATA), then you can have it "answer" the phone and then
    >"listen" and decode DTMF in your case, or simply "answer" the phone and
    >open the door (in my case) My suggestion was to use the actual "ring"
    >voltage to trigger a relay directly - you'll get ~50VAC at probably a
    >good few mA which I reckon ought to be enough to trigger a sensitive
    >machanical relay (via a suitable rectifying/smoothing circuit)
    >
    >Gordon


    --
    Clint Sharp
    Clint Sharp, Aug 9, 2007
    #18
  19. Jono

    Jono Guest

    Gordon Henderson used his keyboard to write :
    > In article <IGgqVrNv$>,
    > Clint Sharp <> wrote:
    >> In message <46b74e2b$0$24756$>, Gordon Henderson
    >> <> writes
    >>> In article <46b743c8$0$642$>,
    >>> Paul Hayes <> wrote:
    >>> However it's been 20 years since I was "seriously" enough into dabbling
    >>> with electronics to tackle it, and turning it into a production item
    >>> might be somewhat tricky... However if it was possible to do it with the
    >>> suggestion above, then you could have a completely self comtained system
    >>> that would plug into any ATA and not require an additional PSU to control
    >>> it, and that might just be a very attractive little device to offer ...

    >
    >> Decode DTMF into a relay driver, tap into the speaker on the door phone.
    >> I assume you can send DTMF over VOIP or am I being *way* too simplistic
    >> here?

    >
    > Not too simplistic, quite the opposite IMO! To decode DTMF in a VoIP
    > stream you need to start with an Ethernet (ot other sort of network
    > connection) then you'll need to implement a SIP stack once you've done
    > the IP stack and the Ethernet driver, then a CPU of some sort of control
    > it all, then... And by the time you're finished, you have most of what
    > might be inside an existing ATA minus the audio hardware...
    >
    > OR
    >
    > You have a device that connects to an existing FXS port (analogue port
    > on a PBX or an ATA), then you can have it "answer" the phone and then
    > "listen" and decode DTMF in your case, or simply "answer" the phone and
    > open the door (in my case) My suggestion was to use the actual "ring"
    > voltage to trigger a relay directly - you'll get ~50VAC at probably a
    > good few mA which I reckon ought to be enough to trigger a sensitive
    > machanical relay (via a suitable rectifying/smoothing circuit)



    I may be approaching this door opening thing from the wrong angle.

    Currently, I have a legacy, analogue PBX connected to a door phone.
    From any of the extensions connected to this, I can answer the door &
    press Recall 0 to unlock it.

    The analogue PBX's line cards are connected to a Sipura SPA2100, and
    are both set up as extensions on my Asterisk PBX.

    If I were to say, connect an SPA3102's line socket to an extension on
    this PBX & register said SPA3102 as an extension on my Asterisk PBX, i
    should be able to answer the door on my IP phones...?

    So, the questions:

    Is it troublesome to get the Asterisk to send the "Recall 0" out to my
    doorphone lock?
    Jono, Aug 10, 2007
    #19
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