Amount of black in color photos?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ben Bowen, Nov 15, 2006.

  1. Ben  Bowen

    Ben Bowen Guest

    Hi all. I recently purchased some non-OEM ink for my Canon MP730
    printer...and it sucked! It's a CMYK printer and I replaced the CM&K
    with the crappy ink. The output on color photos was terrible. It looked
    washed out and faded; just really really bad. So I replaced the C & M
    with regular Canon ink and things look a lot better. I did not,
    however, replace the black because I thought there's not much true
    black in color photos so probably wouldn't matter much. Is that a
    faulty assumption? I just printed a few images and there are some odd
    color artifacts it them. I don't know if it's dirty heads or the ink.
    The odd part is, the artifacts appear in places where I would think
    there would be no black at all. So, is there a decent amount of black
    ink used in color images, for shading, etc? Should I replace the
    non-OEM ink with trusty Canon stuff?

    Thanks,
    Ben..
    Ben Bowen, Nov 15, 2006
    #1
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  2. Ben Bowen wrote:
    > Hi all. I recently purchased some non-OEM ink for my Canon MP730
    > printer...and it sucked! It's a CMYK printer and I replaced the CM&K
    > with the crappy ink. The output on color photos was terrible. It
    > looked washed out and faded; just really really bad. So I replaced
    > the C & M with regular Canon ink and things look a lot better. I did
    > not, however, replace the black because I thought there's not much
    > true black in color photos so probably wouldn't matter much. Is that a
    > faulty assumption? I just printed a few images and there are some odd
    > color artifacts it them. I don't know if it's dirty heads or the ink.
    > The odd part is, the artifacts appear in places where I would think
    > there would be no black at all. So, is there a decent amount of black
    > ink used in color images, for shading, etc? Should I replace the
    > non-OEM ink with trusty Canon stuff?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Ben..



    I am not sure of that printer, but some printers do not even use the
    "black" ink for color printing. However I do believe some do.

    It is important to remember that printing photos is teamwork. All the
    members of the team need to be good and even more important they need to
    work together. That means the printer, the paper, the ink and the software.
    They all work together. It is generally a good idea to use all of them from
    the same manufacturer and use the ones recommended for your particular
    printer.

    It is possible to use third party products, and in a few cases they may
    even be better, but until you test, or until you have it on good independent
    authority, I suggest you stick with all the same manufacturer.

    In your case I would suggest getting a black cartridge and test it by
    printing one of the images that did not look really good with the third
    party cart and then change the the recommended Cannon cart and compare
    results. Remember to align or do whatever maintenance is recommended by
    Cannon when you change cartridges every time you replace carts.

    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia 's Muire duit
    Joseph Meehan, Nov 15, 2006
    #2
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  3. Ben  Bowen

    Neil Ellwood Guest

    Ben Bowen wrote:
    > Hi all. I recently purchased some non-OEM ink for my Canon MP730
    > printer...and it sucked! It's a CMYK printer and I replaced the CM&K
    > with the crappy ink. The output on color photos was terrible. It looked
    > washed out and faded; just really really bad. So I replaced the C & M
    > with regular Canon ink and things look a lot better. I did not,
    > however, replace the black because I thought there's not much true
    > black in color photos so probably wouldn't matter much. Is that a
    > faulty assumption? I just printed a few images and there are some odd
    > color artifacts it them. I don't know if it's dirty heads or the ink.
    > The odd part is, the artifacts appear in places where I would think
    > there would be no black at all. So, is there a decent amount of black
    > ink used in color images, for shading, etc? Should I replace the
    > non-OEM ink with trusty Canon stuff?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Ben..
    >

    You say you replaced the CM and K inks so what did you replace the 'K'
    with? You say that you did not replace the black but 'K' is black -
    could this be you problem?

    --
    Neil
    swap 'ra' and delete 'l' for email
    Neil Ellwood, Nov 15, 2006
    #3
  4. Ben  Bowen

    rafe b Guest

    "Ben Bowen" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Hi all. I recently purchased some non-OEM ink for my Canon MP730
    > printer...and it sucked! It's a CMYK printer and I replaced the CM&K
    > with the crappy ink. The output on color photos was terrible. It looked
    > washed out and faded; just really really bad. So I replaced the C & M
    > with regular Canon ink and things look a lot better. I did not,
    > however, replace the black because I thought there's not much true
    > black in color photos so probably wouldn't matter much. Is that a
    > faulty assumption? I just printed a few images and there are some odd
    > color artifacts it them. I don't know if it's dirty heads or the ink.
    > The odd part is, the artifacts appear in places where I would think
    > there would be no black at all. So, is there a decent amount of black
    > ink used in color images, for shading, etc? Should I replace the
    > non-OEM ink with trusty Canon stuff?



    There can be a lot of black ink in a "color" image.

    Let's say you've got a region of pixels with RGB
    values near (15,5,5).

    That basically means, "dark, dark gray --
    almost black -- but slightly biased to red."

    Most CMYK printers will take advantage
    of that. Instead of using equal amounts of
    CMY and K, they'll crank down the CMY
    and crank up the K.

    In other words: the amount of K (black) ink
    will correspond to the overall "darkness"
    of the image, while the relative proportions
    of C/M/Y will determine the color.

    In terms of Lab color space, the amount of
    K ink will correspond to the L channel,
    while the relative mix of C/M/Y will
    correspond to the a and b axes.

    "GCR" (gray color removal) and "UCR"
    (undercolor removal) are two different
    strategies for doing this.


    rafe b
    www.terrapinphoto.com
    rafe b, Nov 15, 2006
    #4
  5. Ben  Bowen

    Mark² Guest

    Ben Bowen wrote:
    > Hi all. I recently purchased some non-OEM ink for my Canon MP730
    > printer...and it sucked! It's a CMYK printer and I replaced the CM&K
    > with the crappy ink. The output on color photos was terrible. It
    > looked washed out and faded; just really really bad. So I replaced
    > the C & M with regular Canon ink and things look a lot better. I did
    > not, however, replace the black because I thought there's not much
    > true black in color photos so probably wouldn't matter much. Is that a
    > faulty assumption? I just printed a few images and there are some odd
    > color artifacts it them. I don't know if it's dirty heads or the ink.
    > The odd part is, the artifacts appear in places where I would think
    > there would be no black at all. So, is there a decent amount of black
    > ink used in color images, for shading, etc? Should I replace the
    > non-OEM ink with trusty Canon stuff?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Ben..


    Black is used in most color photos, so yes...that was a faulty assumption.
    Any time you need a shade that is darker than CMYK etc., your printer will
    use black.
    And...black ink isn't just...black ink. There are many factors that effect
    things based on the makeup of the ink iteself, including:
    dullness/shine/absorbancy/water-resistance/light-fading resistance/airborn
    chemical resistance/absorbtion and other aspects.

    If you're going to use OEM color, you should definitely stick with quality
    black.

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
    Mark², Nov 15, 2006
    #5
  6. Ben  Bowen

    Mark² Guest

    Mark² wrote:
    > Ben Bowen wrote:
    >> Hi all. I recently purchased some non-OEM ink for my Canon MP730
    >> printer...and it sucked! It's a CMYK printer and I replaced the CM&K
    >> with the crappy ink. The output on color photos was terrible. It
    >> looked washed out and faded; just really really bad. So I replaced
    >> the C & M with regular Canon ink and things look a lot better. I did
    >> not, however, replace the black because I thought there's not much
    >> true black in color photos so probably wouldn't matter much. Is that
    >> a faulty assumption? I just printed a few images and there are some
    >> odd color artifacts it them. I don't know if it's dirty heads or the
    >> ink. The odd part is, the artifacts appear in places where I would
    >> think there would be no black at all. So, is there a decent amount
    >> of black ink used in color images, for shading, etc? Should I
    >> replace the non-OEM ink with trusty Canon stuff?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Ben..

    >
    > Black is used in most color photos, so yes...that was a faulty
    > assumption. Any time you need a shade that is darker than CMYK etc.,
    > your printer will use black.
    > And...black ink isn't just...black ink. There are many factors that
    > effect things based on the makeup of the ink iteself, including:
    > dullness/shine/absorbancy/water-resistance/light-fading
    > resistance/airborn chemical resistance/absorbtion and other aspects.
    >
    > If you're going to use OEM color, you should definitely stick with
    > quality black.


    I should qualify the above and mention that there are a FEW (mostly crappy)
    printers that don't use black (some Lexmarks come to mind), but nearly all
    photoquality printers will use black, or "light black" or even light light
    black...in order to control color shades.

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
    Mark², Nov 15, 2006
    #6
  7. Ben  Bowen

    Ben Bowen Guest

    Wow. Thanks for all of the answers. I appreciate the input. I'll
    replace the non-OEM black with the good stuff.

    And to answer this question:
    > You say you replaced the CM and K inks so what did you replace the 'K'
    > with? You say that you did not replace the black but 'K' is black -
    > could this be you problem?

    I replaced C,M, & K with bad ink, then replaced C & M with the good
    Canon stuff, but left the non-OEM in black.
    Ben Bowen, Nov 16, 2006
    #7
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