All Nikon/Canon competitors only comprise 20% of the market

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Amateur Photographer:


    The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
    boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
    will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
    warn.

    The UK photo industry has surpassed £615m in sales so far this year,
    figures compiled by market analysts at GfK Retail and Technology show.

    'With over half the year complete, the Photo/Imaging market remains in
    a relatively positive growth position…' said a GfK spokesman.

    'Looking at the changeable lens category, this has been helped by the
    growth of the compact system camera market, fuelled recently by
    several new brands entering this market, in addition to new models
    from existing brands.

    'Consequently, the total changeable lens market posted growth of 14.9%
    in value.'

    Digital camera sales (£385m) account for nearly two thirds of overall
    sales.

    However, the news comes as analysts at Futuresource warn that the
    'higher average retail price' of an interchangeable lens compact,
    compared to an 'entry-level DSLR', will limit growth of this sector in
    Europe.

    'Another big influence on growth will be whether Canon and Nikon – who
    currently dominate the wider interchangeable lens camera market –
    decide to launch an interchangeable lens compact product,' said
    Futuresource consultant James Wells.

    'In the short term, while we are expecting significant growth… it will
    still only reach shipments of 377,000 units across Western Europe in
    2010, compared to 3.3m units for DSLRs.'

    Canon/Nikon 'stranglehold'

    Wells added: 'Panasonic, Olympus, Sony and Samsung (with a 20%
    combined share of interchangeable lens camera shipments in 2009) are
    expected to promote this segment heavily in 2010, particularly at the
    Photokina show in September, in the run-up to the important fourth
    quarter period.

    'The long-term aim [for them] is to try to break Canon and Nikon's
    stranglehold on the interchangeable lens camera market. Suffice to
    say, this will be an interesting space to watch over the next two or
    three years.'

    GfK adds that the growth of the changeable lens market has had a
    positive 'knock-on effect' on the sales of accessories, as consumers
    shun cheaper products in favour of higher value items to go with their
    cameras.

    Though sales volume fell, the value of accessories sold rose.

    'Bags/tripods grew 0.6% in value for the year to date compared to this
    time last year, whilst lenses and memory cards increased their market
    value by 5.8% and 0.3% respectively.

    Accessories were worth £179m alone in July.
     
    RichA, Jul 23, 2010
    #1
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  2. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:59:28 -0500, Outing Trolls is FUN!
    <> wrote:
    >On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    >wrote:
    >>Amateur Photographer:
    >>
    >>The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
    >>boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
    >>will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
    >>warn.

    >
    >The UK market is 0.9% of the world. Why they think that they in any way
    >reflect the rest of the world is beyond me.



    The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. No
    claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
    UK market. None.

    The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
    no comparable retail data available from US sources. The Japanese
    photo industry stopped publishing retail data a couple of years ago.
    No other countries except the UK publish their data. So the whining
    Canadian seized on the only market data that is still being published.

    >Just more of their lousy bloody british pomposity.



    Your American arrogance is showing.
     
    Bruce, Jul 23, 2010
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    wrote:
    >
    >Canon/Nikon 'stranglehold'
    >
    >Wells added: 'Panasonic, Olympus, Sony and Samsung (with a 20%
    >combined share of interchangeable lens camera shipments in 2009) are
    >expected to promote this segment heavily in 2010, particularly at the
    >Photokina show in September, in the run-up to the important fourth
    >quarter period.



    That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs
    and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the
    Samsung NX-10.

    Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They
    fell a very long way short of their target.

    What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a
    complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in
    which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon
    and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space
    across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has
    completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops.

    Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still
    outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't
    sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means
    that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come.

    Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony
    P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are
    that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up
    from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR
    sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced.

    In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will
    hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290
    and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has
    been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the
    range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner
    Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A
    successful launch for NEX can only make things worse.

    The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when.
     
    Bruce, Jul 23, 2010
    #3
  4. Bruce wrote:

    > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:59:28 -0500, Outing Trolls is FUN!
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>Amateur Photographer:
    >>>
    >>>The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
    >>>boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
    >>>will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
    >>>warn.

    >>
    >>The UK market is 0.9% of the world. Why they think that they in any way
    >>reflect the rest of the world is beyond me.

    >
    >
    >
    > The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. No
    > claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
    > UK market. None.
    >
    > The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
    > no comparable retail data available from US sources. The Japanese
    > photo industry stopped publishing retail data a couple of years ago.
    > No other countries except the UK publish their data. So the whining
    > Canadian seized on the only market data that is still being published.
    >
    >
    >>Just more of their lousy bloody british pomposity.


    Personalities aside, sometime ago, I had some off-the-record
    discussions with people from Olympus. They seem to share those
    predictive opinions, and in fact, they validated the conjectures in the
    UK article posted above about overall trends and their position on
    compact EVF Interchangeable lens cameras. However, I restate that these
    comments are strictly 'unofficial.'
     
    Alan Lichtenstein, Jul 23, 2010
    #4
  5. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Jul 23, 5:40 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:59:28 -0500, Outing Trolls is FUN!
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > >On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    > >wrote:
    > >>Amateur Photographer:

    >
    > >>The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
    > >>boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
    > >>will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
    > >>warn.

    >
    > >The UK market is 0.9% of the world. Why they think that they in any way
    > >reflect the rest of the world is beyond me.

    >
    > The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK.  No
    > claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
    > UK market.  None.
    >
    > The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
    > no comparable retail data available from US sources.


    You honestly think Britain is so under representative of other
    markets, that it stands alone?
     
    RichA, Jul 23, 2010
    #5
  6. RichA

    whisky-dave Guest

    "RichA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On Jul 23, 5:40 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:59:28 -0500, Outing Trolls is FUN!
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > >On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    > >wrote:
    > >>Amateur Photographer:

    >
    > >>The rise of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact camera has
    > >>boosted the UK's digital camera market but their relatively high price
    > >>will limit growth of this sector in the short to medium term, analysts
    > >>warn.

    >
    > >The UK market is 0.9% of the world. Why they think that they in any way
    > >reflect the rest of the world is beyond me.

    >
    > The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. No
    > claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
    > UK market. None.
    >
    > The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
    > no comparable retail data available from US sources.


    }You honestly think Britain is so under representative of other
    }markets, that it stands alone?

    Well we do have a lot of water around us ;-)
     
    whisky-dave, Jul 23, 2010
    #6
  7. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:14:18 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    wrote:
    >On Jul 23, 5:40 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    >> The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK.  No
    >> claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
    >> UK market.  None.
    >>
    >> The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
    >> no comparable retail data available from US sources.

    >
    >You honestly think Britain is so under representative of other
    >markets, that it stands alone?



    I do know from historic data that purchasing trends in the UK differed
    greatly from the USA, Japan and countries in mainland Europe in the
    past. But that data is no longer publicly available.

    In the absence of any published data, it is now impossible to compare,
    so your question cannot be answered.
     
    Bruce, Jul 23, 2010
    #7
  8. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:40:07 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Bruce" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    >> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>Canon/Nikon 'stranglehold'
    >>>
    >>>Wells added: 'Panasonic, Olympus, Sony and Samsung (with a 20%
    >>>combined share of interchangeable lens camera shipments in 2009) are
    >>>expected to promote this segment heavily in 2010, particularly at the
    >>>Photokina show in September, in the run-up to the important fourth
    >>>quarter period.

    >>
    >>
    >> That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs
    >> and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the
    >> Samsung NX-10.
    >>
    >> Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They
    >> fell a very long way short of their target.
    >>
    >> What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a
    >> complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in
    >> which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon
    >> and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space
    >> across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has
    >> completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops.
    >>
    >> Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still
    >> outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't
    >> sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means
    >> that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come.
    >>
    >> Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony
    >> P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are
    >> that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up
    >> from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR
    >> sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced.
    >>
    >> In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will
    >> hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290
    >> and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has
    >> been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the
    >> range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner
    >> Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A
    >> successful launch for NEX can only make things worse.
    >>
    >> The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when.

    >
    >That's very interesting, and unfortunate.
    >
    >Sony seems to be in deep doo-doo all around, not just their DSLR sales.
    >They've apparently been losing money in practically every major division,
    >operating loss of $889M this year (slightly improved from -$900M last year),
    >less than 9% of their shares are now held by institutions, and most analyst
    >opinions are "sell" or "hold." SNE is now around 28, down from over 40 at
    >the recent peak in March.
    >
     
    Bruce, Jul 23, 2010
    #8
  9. RichA

    Peter Guest

    "Bruce" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:14:18 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    > wrote:
    >>On Jul 23, 5:40 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    >>> The report is from a UK magazine that sells mostly in the UK. No
    >>> claims were made that the data is representative of anything but the
    >>> UK market. None.
    >>>
    >>> The whining Canadian probably chose to post it here because there is
    >>> no comparable retail data available from US sources.

    >>
    >>You honestly think Britain is so under representative of other
    >>markets, that it stands alone?

    >
    >
    > I do know from historic data that purchasing trends in the UK differed
    > greatly from the USA, Japan and countries in mainland Europe in the
    > past. But that data is no longer publicly available.
    >
    > In the absence of any published data, it is now impossible to compare,
    > so your question cannot be answered.
    >
    >



    Hint! such data for the US is available.


    www.marketresearch.com (a paid site)

    or dig it out. Starting point:

    http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...r-sentiment-improves-but-spending-still-weak/

    or

    http://www.sba.gov/advo/research/rs240tot.pdf

    or

    http://www.uschamber.com/issues/index/regulatory/dataaccess.htm

    or

    http://www.bls.gov/


    As for Canada at lest as of August 2008:

    http://www.corostrandberg.com/pdfs/SPN-IC-SustainabilityPurchasingTrendsUpdated Paper 082.pdf

    Yup! you may have to dig out the necessary data yourself, or pay for it. the
    data is available. If the answer is important to you, go for it.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 23, 2010
    #9
  10. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:40:07 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
    <> wrote:
    >"Bruce" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>
    >> That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs
    >> and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the
    >> Samsung NX-10.
    >>
    >> Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They
    >> fell a very long way short of their target.
    >>
    >> What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a
    >> complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in
    >> which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon
    >> and Canon. Each of the three brands now has equal display space
    >> across Jesssops' 233 stores. Pentax users are upset because Sony has
    >> completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops.
    >>
    >> Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*. They are still
    >> outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't
    >> sell Pentax any more. And these figures come from 2009, which means
    >> that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come.
    >>
    >> Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony
    >> P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs. The early signs are
    >> that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up
    >> from Sony P&S. But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR
    >> sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced.
    >>
    >> In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha. They will
    >> hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290
    >> and A390) can attract new buyers. But the Alpha range of DSLRs has
    >> been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start. Four years later, the
    >> range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner
    >> Konica Minolta, and there is no sign of those losses reducing. A
    >> successful launch for NEX can only make things worse.
    >>
    >> The Alpha range has to be killed off. The only question is when.

    >
    >That's very interesting, and unfortunate.
    >
    >Sony seems to be in deep doo-doo all around, not just their DSLR sales.
    >They've apparently been losing money in practically every major division,
    >operating loss of $889M this year (slightly improved from -$900M last year),
    >less than 9% of their shares are now held by institutions, and most analyst
    >opinions are "sell" or "hold." SNE is now around 28, down from over 40 at
    >the recent peak in March.



    Thanks Neil, I hadn't realised that other parts of Sony were having
    such problems.

    I take a keen interest in Sony Alpha because I have a good friend who
    owns a photo store that was a Minolta Professional Dealer for many
    years and now sells (or rather, doesn't sell) Sony Alpha, plus several
    friends who worked for Konica Minolta UK and lost their jobs when Sony
    took over. They are all still working in the photo field, but had to
    find new jobs at short notice.

    My dealer friend is also a Minolta/Alpha user but is intensely
    frustrated with the Alpha products that he has great difficulty
    selling. As an enthusiast, it grieves him terribly to see a
    lacklustre product range that just doesn't sell against Nikon, Canon
    and Pentax.

    He tells me that Sony has been reduced to taking back unsold stocks of
    several Minolta-made lenses and 'remanufacturing' them with Sony
    badges to try to get them to sell. This isn't just a question of
    sticking on a Sony badge. In some cases, things like barrels and
    bezels have to be changed. It must be an embarrassment that these
    lenses haven't sold, a full four and a half years after Konica Minolta
    called a halt to manufacture, and a whole seven and a half years since
    Minolta and Konica merged!

    An example is the "Sony" 135mm STF which is just a rebranded version
    of a Minolta lens that didn't sell.

    http://www.the135stf.net/

    The way Sony dealt with former Konica Minolta UK employees was
    shameful. There was a lot of expertise in supporting and servicing
    Konica Minolta products and all that was lost.

    I first found out about this when I was trying to get spare parts for
    my Konica Hexar RF, a 35mm rangefinder camera with the M bayonet
    mount. It is a gem of a camera, one that is all the Leica M7 should
    have been, but wasn't: Robust, reliable, with a 1/4000 sec* fastest
    shutter speed - invaluable with f/1.4 or f/1.0 (or even f/0.95 lenses)
    in daylight - this is in my opinion the best M rangefinder body that
    Leica never made.

    Anyway, I was horrified to find that Sony had acquired all the spare
    parts for the Hexar RF in the Konica Minolta takeover - and just
    dumped them! They went to landfill, ensuring that Hexar RF owners
    could no longer obtain spares. Sony should have sold on the parts to
    another company - apparently there were several offers of interest but
    Sony just ignored them.


    *Leica M7 and MP have a claimed fastest shutter speed of 1/1000 sec
    but, as with all Leica M bodies since the M3, most struggle to provide
    anything faster than 1/700 sec at that shutter speed setting.
     
    Bruce, Jul 23, 2010
    #10
  11. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Jul 23, 5:56 pm, "Neil Harrington" <> wrote:
    > "Bruce" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:40:07 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
    > > <> wrote:
    > >>"Bruce" <> wrote in message
    > >>news:...

    >
    > >>> That 20% is made up of Panasonic MFT cameras, Olympus E-Series DSLRs
    > >>> and Olympus MFT cameras, Sony Alpha DSLRs, Pentax DSLRs and the
    > >>> Samsung NX-10.

    >
    > >>> Sony's target for its Alpha DSLRs was a 20% market share by 2010. They
    > >>> fell a very long way short of their target.

    >
    > >>> What must be especially worrying for Sony UK is that they did a
    > >>> complex deal with Jessops, the UK's dominant photo store chain, in
    > >>> which Sony Alpha is given equal prominence in Jessops stores to Nikon
    > >>> and Canon.  Each of the three brands now has equal display space
    > >>> across Jesssops' 233 stores.  Pentax users are upset because Sony has
    > >>> completely displaced Pentax P&S and DSLR cameras from Jessops.

    >
    > >>> Yet the sales figures for Sony Alpha DSLRs are *tiny*.  They are still
    > >>> outsold by Pentax, even though the UK's dominant photo chain doesn't
    > >>> sell Pentax any more.  And these figures come from 2009, which means
    > >>> that the effect of Sony's NEX range has yet to come.

    >
    > >>> Sony has been spectacularly unsuccessful at persuading users of Sony
    > >>> P&S compact cameras to trade up to Alpha DSLRs.  The early signs are
    > >>> that the NEX range is doing very well, with many NEX buyers trading up
    > >>> from Sony P&S.  But the Alpha range is suffering, with Alpha DSLR
    > >>> sales having dropped significantly since NEX was introduced.

    >
    > >>> In the short term, Sony will probably continue with Alpha.  They will
    > >>> hope that the two slightly warmed-over "new" entry level models (A290
    > >>> and A390) can attract new buyers.  But the Alpha range of DSLRs has
    > >>> been a huge loss-maker for Sony from the start.  Four years later, the
    > >>> range has a worse market share than it had under its former owner
    > >>> Konica Minolta, and  there is no sign of those losses reducing.  A
    > >>> successful launch for NEX can only make things worse.

    >
    > >>> The Alpha range has to be killed off.  The only question is when.

    >
    > >>That's very interesting, and unfortunate.

    >
    > >>Sony seems to be in deep doo-doo all around, not just their DSLR sales.
    > >>They've apparently been losing money in practically every major division,
    > >>operating loss of $889M this year (slightly improved from -$900M last
    > >>year),
    > >>less than 9% of their shares are now held by institutions, and most
    > >>analyst
    > >>opinions are "sell" or "hold." SNE is now around 28, down from over 40 at
    > >>the recent peak in March.

    >
    > > Thanks Neil, I hadn't realised that other parts of Sony were having
    > > such problems.

    >
    > > I take a keen interest in Sony Alpha because I have a good friend who
    > > owns a photo store that was a Minolta Professional Dealer for many
    > > years and now sells (or rather, doesn't sell) Sony Alpha, plus several
    > > friends who worked for Konica Minolta UK and lost their jobs when Sony
    > > took over.  They are all still working in the photo field, but had to
    > > find new jobs at short notice.

    >
    > > My dealer friend is also a Minolta/Alpha user but is intensely
    > > frustrated with the Alpha products that he has great difficulty
    > > selling.  As an enthusiast, it grieves him terribly to see a
    > > lacklustre product range that just doesn't sell against Nikon, Canon
    > > and Pentax.

    >
    > As a long-time Minolta enthusiast I certainly sympathize with your friend.. I
    > had owned several brands of screw-mount SLRs before switching to Minolta
    > about 1975, with their great (for that time) XE-7 model. That's what the
    > U.S. model designation was, not sure what it was in the UK. I really loved
    > the Minolta brand, owned quite a few MD-mount models and then started with
    > Maxxum (Dynax) a year or so after they were introduced. I still have several
    > Minolta 35s, and stayed with the brand when they moved into digital. My last
    > was the Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D, but shortly after buying that one, after
    > they sold the camera business to Sony, I switched to Nikon. Still have a
    > soft spot for Minoltas though, under any brand name.
    >
    >
    >
    > > He tells me that Sony has been reduced to taking back unsold stocks of
    > > several Minolta-made lenses and 'remanufacturing' them with Sony
    > > badges to try to get them to sell.  This isn't just a question of
    > > sticking on a Sony badge.  In some cases, things like barrels and
    > > bezels have to be changed.  It must be an embarrassment that these
    > > lenses haven't sold, a full four and a half years after Konica Minolta
    > > called a halt to manufacture, and a whole seven and a half years since
    > > Minolta and Konica merged!

    >
    > > An example is the "Sony" 135mm STF which is just a rebranded version
    > > of a Minolta lens that didn't sell.

    >
    > >http://www.the135stf.net/

    >
    > I remember that one. Pretty much a specialty item, and very expensive as I
    > recall.
    >
    >
    >
    > > The way Sony dealt with former Konica Minolta UK employees was
    > > shameful.  There was a lot of expertise in supporting and servicing
    > > Konica Minolta products and all that was lost.

    >
    > > I first found out about this when I was trying to get spare parts for
    > > my Konica Hexar RF, a 35mm rangefinder camera with the M bayonet
    > > mount.  It is a gem of a camera, one that is all the Leica M7 should
    > > have been, but wasn't:  Robust, reliable, with a 1/4000 sec* fastest
    > > shutter speed - invaluable with f/1.4 or f/1.0 (or even f/0.95 lenses)
    > > in daylight - this is in my opinion the best M rangefinder body that
    > > Leica never made.

    >
    > I remember the Konica Hexar and was very tempted to buy one back in the day.
    > It was a little out of my price range at that time. I never realized there
    > were such exotic lenses for it as that, though! I think it was always sold
    > with the f/2 lens in the U.S. And I never knew of the Leica connection,
    > either. Very interesting.
    >
    >
    >
    > > Anyway, I was horrified to find that Sony had acquired all the spare
    > > parts for the Hexar RF in the Konica Minolta takeover - and just
    > > dumped them!  They went to landfill, ensuring that Hexar RF owners
    > > could no longer obtain spares.  Sony should have sold on the parts to
    > > another company - apparently there were several offers of interest but
    > > Sony just ignored them.

    >
    > Incredible! That is just horrible. Horrible.
    >
    >
    >
    > > *Leica M7 and MP have a claimed fastest shutter speed of 1/1000 sec
    > > but, as with all Leica M bodies since the M3, most struggle to provide
    > > anything faster than 1/700 sec at that shutter speed setting.


    Sony is a disposable electronic's company, not a fine camera company.
    Still, I don't really want to see Nikon and Canon get an even a larger
    combined market share.
     
    RichA, Jul 23, 2010
    #11
  12. "Bruce" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    []
    > Anyway, I was horrified to find that Sony had acquired all the spare
    > parts for the Hexar RF in the Konica Minolta takeover - and just
    > dumped them! They went to landfill, ensuring that Hexar RF owners
    > could no longer obtain spares. Sony should have sold on the parts to
    > another company - apparently there were several offers of interest but
    > Sony just ignored them.


    Verging on the criminal, that! Crazy!

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 24, 2010
    #12
  13. RichA

    Mark L Guest

    On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 07:43:31 +0100, "David J Taylor"
    <> wrote:

    >"Bruce" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >[]
    >> Anyway, I was horrified to find that Sony had acquired all the spare
    >> parts for the Hexar RF in the Konica Minolta takeover - and just
    >> dumped them! They went to landfill, ensuring that Hexar RF owners
    >> could no longer obtain spares. Sony should have sold on the parts to
    >> another company - apparently there were several offers of interest but
    >> Sony just ignored them.

    >
    >Verging on the criminal, that! Crazy!
    >
    >David


    How is this any different than buying up someone else's software and then
    burning it into the ground with no further fixes, support, nor updates,
    just so they can sell their less capable software but one they have
    invested more money in producing? It's called free-enterprise, capitalism,
    economics. Happens every day in every facet of business--get rid of the
    competition.
     
    Mark L, Jul 24, 2010
    #13
  14. "Mark L" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 07:43:31 +0100, "David J Taylor"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>"Bruce" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>[]
    >>> Anyway, I was horrified to find that Sony had acquired all the spare
    >>> parts for the Hexar RF in the Konica Minolta takeover - and just
    >>> dumped them! They went to landfill, ensuring that Hexar RF owners
    >>> could no longer obtain spares. Sony should have sold on the parts to
    >>> another company - apparently there were several offers of interest but
    >>> Sony just ignored them.

    >>
    >>Verging on the criminal, that! Crazy!
    >>
    >>David

    >
    > How is this any different than buying up someone else's software and
    > then
    > burning it into the ground with no further fixes, support, nor updates,
    > just so they can sell their less capable software but one they have
    > invested more money in producing? It's called free-enterprise,
    > capitalism,
    > economics. Happens every day in every facet of business--get rid of the
    > competition.


    Hardware fails, software (usually) continues working as well as it did on
    day one, with the OS for which it originally worked.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 24, 2010
    #14
  15. lofi wrote:

    > There is vast reservoir of consumers out there who have no concept of
    > camera history and no reason to have any inherent loyalty to an
    > established name brand.
    > In truth, to the dismay of purists and those who cannot see the bigger
    > picture, there is no effective or perceivable difference to the average
    > consumer in images made with high versus medium, and often low, quality
    > gear.
    > The technical quality of current gear, including the new micro 4/3s, is
    > actually extraordinary in both relative and absolute terms.
    > Most of you out there do not have aesthetic skills anyway that match the
    > technology of even a 1970's Vivitar zoom lens.
    > These younger consumers also do not have any inherent loyalty to the
    > ancient 35mm film SLR design paradigm. Having no lifelong experience
    > with TTL viewing but having a lifetime experience with LCD viewing they
    > will prefer the latter as a matter of course.
    > This is called a paradigm shift. It affects not only the technology of
    > image capture but also the style of images produced.
    > Get used to it.
    > All non Nikon/Canon manufacturers know that if and when the recession
    > ends there will be a pent-up demand for new digital imaging products and
    > they are wise to position themselves with these new designs.
    > It is Canon and Nikon who have to play "catch-up" at this point and
    > clearly they realize that.
    > What you all have to realize is the days of the massive, heavy
    > "professional" 35mm style dSLR are going the way of film.
    > Personally I will mourn the loss of TTL viewing and all that implies
    > about the philosophy/aesthetics of image capture but I am not the
    > intended market for these devices.
    >
    > --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---


    Indeed. In fact, Olympus is betting on that shift that you describe. I
    do disagree with you, as there will always be SLR's with TTL viewing,
    since there will always be professionals and committed hobbyists who
    have the desire to develop the necessary.
     
    Alan Lichtenstein, Jul 24, 2010
    #15
  16. David J Taylor <> wrote:

    > Hardware fails, software (usually) continues working as well as it did on
    > day one, with the OS for which it originally worked.


    Bitrot.

    It explains why there are more security patches every
    month for supposedly stable software, for example.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jul 24, 2010
    #16
  17. RichA

    Peter Guest

    "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > David J Taylor <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hardware fails, software (usually) continues working as well as it did on
    >> day one, with the OS for which it originally worked.

    >
    > Bitrot.
    >
    > It explains why there are more security patches every
    > month for supposedly stable software, for example.
    >



    The security patches are required because there are a bunch of M-F assholes
    who get their rocks off by writing malicious code to screw up other peoples
    work.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 25, 2010
    #17
  18. "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > David J Taylor <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hardware fails, software (usually) continues working as well as it did
    >> on
    >> day one, with the OS for which it originally worked.

    >
    > Bitrot.


    No.

    > It explains why there are more security patches every
    > month for supposedly stable software, for example.
    >
    > -Wolfgang


    Irrelevant to my point, though.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 25, 2010
    #18
  19. David J Taylor <> wrote:
    > "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek:...
    >> David J Taylor <> wrote:


    >>> Hardware fails, software (usually) continues working as well as it did
    >>> on
    >>> day one, with the OS for which it originally worked.


    >> Bitrot.


    > No.


    http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/b/bitrot.html

    >> It explains why there are more security patches every
    >> month for supposedly stable software, for example.


    > Irrelevant to my point, though.


    In theory you are right, in practice however, software ages
    not always gracefully.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jul 26, 2010
    #19
  20. Peter <> wrote:
    > "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <> wrote in message


    >> It explains why there are more security patches every
    >> month for supposedly stable software, for example.


    > The security patches are required because there are a bunch of M-F assholes
    > who get their rocks off by writing malicious code to screw up other peoples
    > work.


    You obviously have no idea of either the history nor the current
    reasons for exploiting security holes.

    Just as a minimal pointer, there's people who write code to
    exploit the holes to prove they exist (these days especially
    Microsoft will deny problems otherwise) or to learn about such
    code (and such code may have unwanted side effects) , there
    the bot net writer who is in for the money (selling bot nets
    to spammers) --- he has no intention of screwing up your work
    and thus draw attention to himself ---, there are the national
    spy and antispy operations, there is the police (not always in
    democratic countries) tracking down supposed criminals by spying
    on the computers of the suspects, there is industrial espionage,
    there's people siphoning off passwords and SSNs and credit card
    information, etc. Google a bit and learn.

    But I am sure you don't close and lock your door because you
    value privacy e.g. during intercourse or against thieves or to
    shut out the world, you just lock it to foil people intent of
    trashing a home.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jul 26, 2010
    #20
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