After Seeing The Local TV Interviews With Microsoft Claiming Vista Will Help Parents Protect Kids Fr

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by E. Scrooge, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. E. Scrooge

    E. Scrooge Guest

    It would be real good to know from Microsoft where they get the idea that
    many average parents know a damn sight more about computers than many PC
    clued up teenagers around the country do.

    It's no bullshit that in some cases it's the teenagers after learning about
    computers at schools - from the Net - and from their many computer friends
    who are helping and give computing tips to their parents from time to time.

    Individual profiles are hardly anything new, but to claim that they're
    completely secure and that everyone will all be using them all of sudden as
    soon as they get Vista is stretching the fact that people just want to use
    computers without wasting time on anything else - going through passwords
    and checking up on thousands of files in Intenet folders and trying to find
    plug in Hard Drives, Flash Drives, and CDRs to see what's been downloaded
    from the net onto them.

    Sitting across from Brett Roberts was Mark Sainsbury who is no stupid
    teenager, and yet Mark Sainsbury was silly enough to have credit card
    details on his computer which ended up being extracted and used by some
    bastard.
    Mark Sainsbury couldn't protect his own money, expecting him to know what
    any teenager is going to be up to with help from Vista - would be like Vista
    helping Mark Sainsbury to be able to walk on water as well.

    Kids have been growing up with computers for years and do a damn sight more
    on them than just play Solitaire which what surprising number of adults
    waste some of their computing time on.

    Not forgetting that families have many different lifestyles - the parents
    that bugger off to the pub leaving their kids to look after themselves are
    going to be real interested in fiddling round with Vista's kids protecting
    features.

    XP starts slow enough on PCs that don't have video cards as it is. It's
    real product lack of information by deliberately leading people to believe
    that budget PCs which are claimed to be Vista upgradeable and given that
    option with XP Media centre will run Vista without any problems at all,
    expecting Vista to start and run on these budget PCs no worse than XP does.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jan 31, 2007
    #1
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  2. E. Scrooge

    Barry Lennox Guest

    On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:25:45 +1300, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
    (*sling)> wrote:

    >It would be real good to know from Microsoft where they get the idea that
    >many average parents know a damn sight more about computers than many PC
    >clued up teenagers around the country do.


    Snip

    I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    to have some real problems according to:

    http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
     
    Barry Lennox, Jan 31, 2007
    #2
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  3. E. Scrooge

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Barry Lennox" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:25:45 +1300, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
    > (*sling)> wrote:
    >
    >>It would be real good to know from Microsoft where they get the idea that
    >>many average parents know a damn sight more about computers than many PC
    >>clued up teenagers around the country do.

    >
    > Snip
    >
    > I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    > to have some real problems according to:
    >
    > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html


    Interesting is the claims that parents will have better and secure control,
    yet Microsoft doesn't trust anyone including the parents who buy PCs with
    Vista and install Vista on existing PCs.

    On TV3 John Campbell show the securety features of Vista were reported on.
    Vista constantly checks that owners haven't been tampering with any of it's
    system files. Not only that but Vista checks for any hardware that might be
    added or changed. Videos will be displayed degraded if the hardware or
    software doesn't agree with Microsoft.
    As if that's not enough a computer running Vista will check any TV that's
    it's connected to making sure it's on the list of approved TV brands -
    otherwise any video played back on a non approved TV will be degraded as
    well.
    How a TV can effect any copyright protection only Microsoft would know.

    And then there's the Bill Gates show demonstrating the video features of
    Vista that will have everyone streaming videos off the Net with high speed
    boardband (which isn't even available over copper phone lines at peak times
    in NZ). As if that's going to be a better solution than watching the TV
    Networks without any fucking around with logging on and off and paying extra
    fees for the streaming of any videos. Also it's hardly going to stop people
    from using their cheap DVD players and buying good cheap DVDs.

    The next 64bit Windows OS or the one after that just might be really
    something. It took Microsoft a while to get the 32bit OS running damn well
    in the long lasting XP version of it.

    Once people get past the novelty of the new 3D desktop - they'll get onto
    playing round with their digital pictures and other specialty 32bit programs
    just like they did before.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jan 31, 2007
    #3
  4. E. Scrooge

    Peter Guest

    *sling wrote:
    > It would be real good to know from Microsoft where they get the idea that
    > many average parents know a damn sight more about computers than many PC
    > clued up teenagers around the country do.


    Sadly, the quality of journalism in NZ is v poor. They just accept whatever
    marketing spin they are spoon fed.

    ----------------------------------
    Microsoft all but eliminated mainstream software competition. As a result,
    Microsoft became the primary source of advertising revenue for mainstream
    publications. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. So instead of
    publishing issues calling for a worldwide boycott of Vista because it
    focuses more on what you can't do than what you can do, you see special
    editions praising Vista as the greatest advancement in computing since
    Windows 95.

    More at http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000173.
    ---------------------------------
     
    Peter, Jan 31, 2007
    #4
  5. E. Scrooge

    Phil Guest

    Re: After Seeing The Local TV Interviews With Microsoft ClaimingVista Will Help Parents Protect Kids From The Net better...

    Peter wrote, On 31/01/07 9.35 p:
    > Sadly, the quality of journalism in NZ is v poor. They just accept whatever
    > marketing spin they are spoon fed.
    >
    > ----------------------------------
    > Microsoft all but eliminated mainstream software competition. As a result,
    > Microsoft became the primary source of advertising revenue for mainstream
    > publications. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.


    Are there any figures to back that up?

    -Phil
     
    Phil, Jan 31, 2007
    #5
  6. On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:10:55 +1300, Barry Lennox
    <> wrote:


    >
    >I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    >to have some real problems according to:
    >
    >http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html



    Vista has been designed to make you the UNTRUSTED person in your own
    computer so as to protect the interests of money grubbers.

    Microsoft should be made to with draw Vista until they come up with a
    version that protects the rights of the owner of the computer who is
    the one paying for the software

    Patrick
     
    Patrick FitzGerald, Jan 31, 2007
    #6
  7. E. Scrooge

    a_l_p Guest

    Re: After Seeing The Local TV Interviews With Microsoft ClaimingVista Will Help Parents Protect Kids From The Net better...

    Patrick FitzGerald wrote:
    > On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:10:55 +1300, Barry Lennox
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    >>to have some real problems according to:
    >>
    >>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

    >
    >
    >
    > Vista has been designed to make you the UNTRUSTED person in your own
    > computer so as to protect the interests of money grubbers.
    >
    > Microsoft should be made to with draw Vista until they come up with a
    > version that protects the rights of the owner of the computer who is
    > the one paying for the software
    >



    Alternative (1): those who benefit from its innumerable checks and can't-do
    functions should pay since it in their interests to hve it installed on as many
    computers as possible. This would make it competitive with
    Alternative (2): Linux!

    A L P
     
    a_l_p, Jan 31, 2007
    #7
  8. E. Scrooge

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    Patrick FitzGerald <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:10:55 +1300, Barry Lennox
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >
    > >I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    > >to have some real problems according to:
    > >
    > >http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

    >
    >
    > Vista has been designed to make you the UNTRUSTED person in your own
    > computer so as to protect the interests of money grubbers.
    >
    > Microsoft should be made to with draw Vista until they come up with a
    > version that protects the rights of the owner of the computer who is
    > the one paying for the software
    >
    > Patrick


    Then simply use an alternative.
    Mac OSX
    BSD
    Linux

    and a bunch of others like BeOS.

    NO ONE is forced to buy Windows (and I DON'T use windows...)
     
    whoisthis, Jan 31, 2007
    #8
  9. E. Scrooge

    Mutlley Guest

    Peter <> wrote:

    >*sling wrote:
    >> It would be real good to know from Microsoft where they get the idea that
    >> many average parents know a damn sight more about computers than many PC
    >> clued up teenagers around the country do.

    >
    >Sadly, the quality of journalism in NZ is v poor. They just accept whatever
    >marketing spin they are spoon fed.
    >
    >----------------------------------
    >Microsoft all but eliminated mainstream software competition. As a result,
    >Microsoft became the primary source of advertising revenue for mainstream
    >publications. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. So instead of
    >publishing issues calling for a worldwide boycott of Vista because it
    >focuses more on what you can't do than what you can do, you see special
    >editions praising Vista as the greatest advancement in computing since
    >Windows 95.
    >
    >More at http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000173.
    >---------------------------------


    Just look at the Vista review in todays NZ Herald. Talk about a
    Microsoft press release.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10421825

    Didn't Peter Griffin get a M$ funded tour to CES last month??
     
    Mutlley, Jan 31, 2007
    #9
  10. On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:03:50 +1300, whoisthis <>
    wrote:


    >
    >Then simply use an alternative.
    >Mac OSX
    >BSD
    >Linux
    >
    >and a bunch of others like BeOS.
    >
    >NO ONE is forced to buy Windows (and I DON'T use windows...)



    Will that help?

    As I understand it the security measures , designed to protect the
    money grubbers is built into the new hardware as well as in the
    software.

    How will changing the Operating System by bypass the evil designs in
    the hardware ?


    Patrick
     
    Patrick FitzGerald, Jan 31, 2007
    #10
  11. E. Scrooge

    Barry Lennox Guest

    On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 07:48:01 +1300, Patrick FitzGerald
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:10:55 +1300, Barry Lennox
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    >>to have some real problems according to:
    >>
    >>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

    >
    >
    >Vista has been designed to make you the UNTRUSTED person in your own
    >computer so as to protect the interests of money grubbers.
    >
    >Microsoft should be made to with draw Vista until they come up with a
    >version that protects the rights of the owner of the computer who is
    >the one paying for the software


    That may well happen in Europe, as Microsoft appears to have ignored
    the requirements of the EU. See
    http://www.ecis.eu/news/2007_jan26.html

    I see Harvey Norman is already on TV raving about how wonderful Vista
    is. I wonder how they will respond to the Disputes Tribunal hearing
    when some customer finds out how crap it is, and it will not play a
    DVD because of the anal copy protection. Of course, the problem is
    really Microsoft's but the CGA does not concern itself with that..
    Harvey Norman simply takes it up with Microsoft.
     
    Barry Lennox, Jan 31, 2007
    #11
  12. E. Scrooge

    Earl Grey Guest

    Re: After Seeing The Local TV Interviews With Microsoft ClaimingVista Will Help Parents Protect Kids From The Net better...

    Patrick FitzGerald wrote:
    > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:03:50 +1300, whoisthis <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Then simply use an alternative.
    >> Mac OSX
    >> BSD
    >> Linux
    >>
    >> and a bunch of others like BeOS.
    >>
    >> NO ONE is forced to buy Windows (and I DON'T use windows...)

    >
    >
    > Will that help?
    >
    > As I understand it the security measures , designed to protect the
    > money grubbers is built into the new hardware as well as in the
    > software.
    >
    > How will changing the Operating System by bypass the evil designs in
    > the hardware ?
    >
    >
    > Patrick


    To give an example with existing hardware, DVD drives are designed to
    work with the DVD player software to stop you from playing DVDs from
    outside your region.
    However VLC will play those DVDs regardless of region on both Windows
    and Linux.
    Yet if you believed what the vendors say, you wouldn't attempt it.
    The hardware manufacturers are relying on propaganda as much as
    technology, and I expect there will be third party shims and firmware
    hacks employed so that users can get fair use.
     
    Earl Grey, Jan 31, 2007
    #12
  13. E. Scrooge

    Geopelia Guest

    When will somebody invent a simple computer, that is fast and easy to use
    and doesn't break down? Preferably one that doesn't get viruses etc.

    And why not invent a simple small mobile phone that just sends and receives
    phone calls?
     
    Geopelia, Jan 31, 2007
    #13
  14. E. Scrooge

    Rob S Guest

    Re: After Seeing The Local TV Interviews With Microsoft ClaimingVista Will Help Parents Protect Kids From The Net better...

    Geopelia wrote:
    > When will somebody invent a simple computer, that is fast and easy to use
    > and doesn't break down? Preferably one that doesn't get viruses etc.
    >

    I sympathise with you there Geo. With luck the OpenOEM
    (http://www.innovationstage.com/openoem/index.php) project will come to
    fruition and it just might happen.

    > And why not invent a simple small mobile phone that just sends and receives
    > phone calls?
    >
    >

    http://www.vodafone.co.nz/mobiles/simply.jsp

    They aren't what you would call "small" though, at least by today's
    standards.
    --

    Rob
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    http://aspir8or.blogspot.com
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


    Name one nice thing about Windows? It doesn't just crash, it displays a
    dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     
    Rob S, Jan 31, 2007
    #14
  15. E. Scrooge

    Earl Grey Guest

    Re: After Seeing The Local TV Interviews With Microsoft ClaimingVista Will Help Parents Protect Kids From The Net better...

    Geopelia wrote:
    > When will somebody invent a simple computer, that is fast and easy to use
    > and doesn't break down? Preferably one that doesn't get viruses etc.


    http://www.apple.com/macbook/macbook.html


    >
    > And why not invent a simple small mobile phone that just sends and receives
    > phone calls?
    >

    http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/45c11d0000b71a4c2740c0a87f330659/Product/View/E3455
    >
    >
     
    Earl Grey, Jan 31, 2007
    #15
  16. E. Scrooge

    Earl Grey Guest

    Re: After Seeing The Local TV Interviews With Microsoft ClaimingVista Will Help Parents Protect Kids From The Net better...

    Barry Lennox wrote:
    > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 07:48:01 +1300, Patrick FitzGerald
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:10:55 +1300, Barry Lennox
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    >>> to have some real problems according to:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

    >>
    >> Vista has been designed to make you the UNTRUSTED person in your own
    >> computer so as to protect the interests of money grubbers.
    >>
    >> Microsoft should be made to with draw Vista until they come up with a
    >> version that protects the rights of the owner of the computer who is
    >> the one paying for the software

    >
    > That may well happen in Europe, as Microsoft appears to have ignored
    > the requirements of the EU. See
    > http://www.ecis.eu/news/2007_jan26.html
    >
    > I see Harvey Norman is already on TV raving about how wonderful Vista
    > is. I wonder how they will respond to the Disputes Tribunal hearing
    > when some customer finds out how crap it is, and it will not play a
    > DVD because of the anal copy protection. Of course, the problem is
    > really Microsoft's but the CGA does not concern itself with that..
    > Harvey Norman simply takes it up with Microsoft.


    Its about as likely as you coming back to apologise when you fine that
    it does play DVDs
     
    Earl Grey, Jan 31, 2007
    #16
  17. E. Scrooge

    Barry Lennox Guest

    On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:56:01 +1300, Earl Grey <> wrote:

    >Barry Lennox wrote:
    >> On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 07:48:01 +1300, Patrick FitzGerald
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:10:55 +1300, Barry Lennox
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    >>>> to have some real problems according to:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
    >>>
    >>> Vista has been designed to make you the UNTRUSTED person in your own
    >>> computer so as to protect the interests of money grubbers.
    >>>
    >>> Microsoft should be made to with draw Vista until they come up with a
    >>> version that protects the rights of the owner of the computer who is
    >>> the one paying for the software

    >>
    >> That may well happen in Europe, as Microsoft appears to have ignored
    >> the requirements of the EU. See
    >> http://www.ecis.eu/news/2007_jan26.html
    >>
    >> I see Harvey Norman is already on TV raving about how wonderful Vista
    >> is. I wonder how they will respond to the Disputes Tribunal hearing
    >> when some customer finds out how crap it is, and it will not play a
    >> DVD because of the anal copy protection. Of course, the problem is
    >> really Microsoft's but the CGA does not concern itself with that..
    >> Harvey Norman simply takes it up with Microsoft.

    >
    >Its about as likely as you coming back to apologise when you fine that
    >it does play DVDs


    You have missed the point entirely. One expects things to perform "as
    advertised" and that is enshrined in the CGA and the FTA. Both of
    those acts, and indeed common-sense, deals with events when things do
    not perform "as advertised"
     
    Barry Lennox, Jan 31, 2007
    #17
  18. E. Scrooge

    Zipper Guest

    Re: After Seeing The Local TV Interviews With Microsoft ClaimingVista Will Help Parents Protect Kids From The Net better...

    Rob S wrote:
    > Geopelia wrote:
    >> When will somebody invent a simple computer, that is fast and easy to
    >> use and doesn't break down? Preferably one that doesn't get viruses etc.
    >>

    > I sympathise with you there Geo. With luck the OpenOEM
    > (http://www.innovationstage.com/openoem/index.php) project will come to
    > fruition and it just might happen.


    After reading some of the messages in their forums I would be surprised
    to ever see anything eventuate from that project except more talk.
    Good luck to them it's a nice a idea but I cannot see it happening.

    >
    >> And why not invent a simple small mobile phone that just sends and
    >> receives phone calls?
    >>
    >>

    > http://www.vodafone.co.nz/mobiles/simply.jsp
    >
    > They aren't what you would call "small" though, at least by today's
    > standards.
     
    Zipper, Feb 1, 2007
    #18
  19. E. Scrooge

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Barry Lennox" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 07:48:01 +1300, Patrick FitzGerald
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:10:55 +1300, Barry Lennox
    >><> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>>I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    >>>to have some real problems according to:
    >>>
    >>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

    >>
    >>
    >>Vista has been designed to make you the UNTRUSTED person in your own
    >>computer so as to protect the interests of money grubbers.
    >>
    >>Microsoft should be made to with draw Vista until they come up with a
    >>version that protects the rights of the owner of the computer who is
    >>the one paying for the software

    >
    > That may well happen in Europe, as Microsoft appears to have ignored
    > the requirements of the EU. See
    > http://www.ecis.eu/news/2007_jan26.html
    >
    > I see Harvey Norman is already on TV raving about how wonderful Vista
    > is. I wonder how they will respond to the Disputes Tribunal hearing
    > when some customer finds out how crap it is, and it will not play a
    > DVD because of the anal copy protection. Of course, the problem is
    > really Microsoft's but the CGA does not concern itself with that..
    > Harvey Norman simply takes it up with Microsoft.


    Harvey Norman and other computer retailers couldn't give a stuff about what
    people do with computers and why they even bought them in them in the first
    place - just as long as the money is handed over over them is all that
    retailers really care about. They're in business to make money not to help
    little old ladies download music files and copy their old records onto their
    new computers. It's out the door out of mind, and only come back if you
    intend on buying something else.

    It's a fair enough sttitude. Retailers aren't in business to nurse maid
    people if they can push them onto crap products instead of quality ones then
    all the better as quality products virtually sell themselves but things like
    Casio cameras and other crap need a real good push to get the crap out the
    door.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Feb 1, 2007
    #19
  20. E. Scrooge

    Barry Lennox Guest

    On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:43:56 +1300, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
    (*sling)> wrote:

    >
    >"Barry Lennox" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 07:48:01 +1300, Patrick FitzGerald
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:10:55 +1300, Barry Lennox
    >>><> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>I can see I won't have a bar of Vista, it looks like crap. And seems
    >>>>to have some real problems according to:
    >>>>
    >>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Vista has been designed to make you the UNTRUSTED person in your own
    >>>computer so as to protect the interests of money grubbers.
    >>>
    >>>Microsoft should be made to with draw Vista until they come up with a
    >>>version that protects the rights of the owner of the computer who is
    >>>the one paying for the software

    >>
    >> That may well happen in Europe, as Microsoft appears to have ignored
    >> the requirements of the EU. See
    >> http://www.ecis.eu/news/2007_jan26.html
    >>
    >> I see Harvey Norman is already on TV raving about how wonderful Vista
    >> is. I wonder how they will respond to the Disputes Tribunal hearing
    >> when some customer finds out how crap it is, and it will not play a
    >> DVD because of the anal copy protection. Of course, the problem is
    >> really Microsoft's but the CGA does not concern itself with that..
    >> Harvey Norman simply takes it up with Microsoft.

    >
    >Harvey Norman and other computer retailers couldn't give a stuff about what
    >people do with computers and why they even bought them in them in the first
    >place - just as long as the money is handed over over them is all that
    >retailers really care about. They're in business to make money not to help
    >little old ladies download music files and copy their old records onto their
    >new computers. It's out the door out of mind, and only come back if you
    >intend on buying something else.
    >
    >It's a fair enough sttitude. Retailers aren't in business to nurse maid
    >people if they can push them onto crap products instead of quality ones then
    >all the better as quality products virtually sell themselves but things like
    >Casio cameras and other crap need a real good push to get the crap out the
    >door.


    Yes, I would agree that these places populate their counters with
    pimple faces who know SFA, and have been programmed to essentially
    achieve the desired aim : ie- "Givvus yr money and fuckoff" but that
    does not let them escape the law.

    Say I buy a loaded Vista PC, take it home, and the copy protection
    (aka Premium content protection) scheme prevents me playing DVDs. I'm
    pretty sure I would win a case in the Disputes Tribunal, I suspect
    that they would not even bother to turn up, thus I win by default, in
    any event.

    I know. I won a similar case about 12 years ago when it was the Small
    Claims Court.

    The fact that more customers are not more agressive lets them get away
    with this shite.
     
    Barry Lennox, Feb 1, 2007
    #20
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