affect of adsl interleaving on voip

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Peter Gradwell, Jun 15, 2006.

  1. hi

    If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving, which, I
    understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding upto 50ms.

    I've got a pair of bonded MAX lines and my latency is fine, but I was
    wondering if anyone else was experiencing issues?

    thanks
    peter

    --
    peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/
    -- engineering & hosting services for email, web and voip --
    -- http://www.peter.me.uk/ -- http://www.voip.org.uk/ --
     
    Peter Gradwell, Jun 15, 2006
    #1
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  2. Peter Gradwell

    Jono Guest

    "Peter Gradwell" <> wrote in message
    news:4491a17e$0$658$...
    > hi
    >
    > If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving, which, I
    > understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding upto 50ms.
    >
    > I've got a pair of bonded MAX lines and my latency is fine, but I was
    > wondering if anyone else was experiencing issues?
    >


    I'm lead to believe that BT will only enable interleaving as a last resort,
    not by default - after all other avenues have been explored.
     
    Jono, Jun 15, 2006
    #2
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  3. Peter Gradwell

    Paul Cupis Guest

    Jono wrote:
    > "Peter Gradwell" <> wrote in message
    > news:4491a17e$0$658$...
    >> If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving, which, I
    >> understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding upto 50ms.


    No, the ISP can choose to set the interleaving at:

    automatic (exchange equipment decides based on performance)
    on
    off
    whatever-it-was-before-the-migration

    Obviously the last option is only available when you have a MAX customer
    migrate to you when they were already on MAX with another ISP.
     
    Paul Cupis, Jun 15, 2006
    #3
  4. Peter Gradwell

    Carl Hibbard Guest

    On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:05:53 +0100, Peter Gradwell
    <> wrote:

    >If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving, which, I
    >understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding upto 50ms.


    I only gained about 20ms going from 15ms to 35ms but it did the job
    reliability wise that is for sure

    >I've got a pair of bonded MAX lines and my latency is fine, but I was
    >wondering if anyone else was experiencing issues?


    There aren't many hops to Gradwell from A&A but it hasn't affected my
    voip link in the slightest here

    HTH
     
    Carl Hibbard, Jun 15, 2006
    #4
  5. In message <4491a17e$0$658$>, Peter Gradwell
    <> writes

    >hi
    >
    >If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving,


    Not always as far as I know. I had to ask for it anyway.


    > which, I understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding
    >upto 50ms.
    >
    >I've got a pair of bonded MAX lines and my latency is fine, but I was
    >wondering if anyone else was experiencing issues?


    :) Don't know that the purists class Skype as voip, but that works
    well at
    1056 down and 806 kbps up with interleave turned on.


    Cheers, J/.
    --
    John Beardmore
     
    John Beardmore, Jun 15, 2006
    #5
  6. "Peter Gradwell" <> wrote in message
    news:4491a17e$0$658$...
    > I've got a pair of bonded MAX lines and my latency is fine, but I was
    > wondering if anyone else was experiencing issues?
    >

    As far as I understand, the technique if interleaving is used to *increase*
    the quality of the line. Hence very useful where (a) quality of your phone
    line is sub-standard (too much noise) or (b) your connection is close to the
    distance limit for ADSL.

    The down-side is of course a latency increase. If the ISP has set the
    interleave value at 16ms (in each direction), the total latency increase is
    32ms for the first hop. This should not affect the VOIP quality at all.
    Actually it should *increase* VOIP quality for many users on a low qulaity
    or too distant ADSL line ...

    Note - You can test if interlevae as been set on your conncetion: just ping
    and measure the first hop: if it is under 20ms, interleaving is disabled. If
    it is above 35ms, interleaving is enabled.

    rgds
    Philippe (Belgium)
     
    Philippe Deleye, Jun 16, 2006
    #6
  7. Peter Gradwell

    Guest

    Peter Gradwell wrote:
    > hi
    >
    > If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving, which, I
    > understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding upto 50ms.
    >
    > I've got a pair of bonded MAX lines and my latency is fine, but I was
    > wondering if anyone else was experiencing issues?
    >
    > thanks
    > peter
    >
    > --
    > peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/
    > -- engineering & hosting services for email, web and voip --
    > -- http://www.peter.me.uk/ -- http://www.voip.org.uk/ --


    Hi Peter

    I had interleaving on my line for about a week and with a Dreytek Vigor
    2600VG router, VoIP was quite seriously affected. So how you would be
    affected might depend on your hardware.

    Apart from the obvious continuous latency, dependent on how many errors
    your router is experiencing and therefore correcting, you might have a
    situation where the latency varies significantly during the call
    (jitter).

    The result is a rather jumbed sound with pops and crackles.

    Newnet charged my £7.05 to have interleaving turned off permanently
    and the problem went away. I was experiencing about four million
    corrected errors a day with interleaving turned on.

    Chris
     
    , Jun 16, 2006
    #7
  8. Peter Gradwell

    Guest

    On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:05:53 +0100, Peter Gradwell
    <> wrote:

    >If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving, which, I
    >understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding upto 50ms.


    That's not the case in my experience. When we switched to ADSLMax, it
    was left in Fast mode, and pings were around 15ms. However, we don't
    have a very good line (BT reckoned it was only good for 500k at first)
    and now it is running at a bit over 3Mb with interleaving enabled.
    It's rock solid like that, and pings are 20ms.

    Doesn't seem to have affected VOIP at all, but of course the faster
    uplink makes ADSL Max much more useful for VOIP.

    Of course, we didn't get our ADSL from BT!
     
    , Jun 16, 2006
    #8
  9. Peter Gradwell

    Guest

    On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:27:28 +0200, "Philippe Deleye"
    <> wrote:

    >Note - You can test if interlevae as been set on your conncetion: just ping
    >and measure the first hop: if it is under 20ms, interleaving is disabled. If
    >it is above 35ms, interleaving is enabled.


    Not true. My connection is interleaved (at least the router status
    says it is) and the first hop is lower than that:

    From the router status:

    DS Path Mode : Interleave US Path Mode : Interleave

    From tracert:

    2 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms gandhi-dsl1.wh.zen.net.uk [62.3.83.5]
     
    , Jun 16, 2006
    #9
  10. Peter Gradwell

    David Mahon Guest

    In article <44924f50$0$28398$>, Philippe Deleye
    <> writes

    >Note - You can test if interlevae as been set on your conncetion: just ping
    >and measure the first hop: if it is under 20ms, interleaving is disabled. If
    >it is above 35ms, interleaving is enabled.


    It's on for me (it helped) and the first hop outside my house is 30ms.

    --
    David Mahon
     
    David Mahon, Jun 16, 2006
    #10
  11. "Peter Gradwell" <> wrote in message
    news:4491a17e$0$658$...
    > hi
    >
    > If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving, which, I
    > understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding upto 50ms.
    >
    > I've got a pair of bonded MAX lines and my latency is fine, but I was
    > wondering if anyone else was experiencing issues?
    >
    > thanks
    > peter
    >

    50mS is neither here nor there. A satellite call to the USA inserts nearly
    250mS and even a subsea cable call will add ~25mS. So don't worry.
     
    R. Mark Clayton, Jun 16, 2006
    #11
  12. Peter Gradwell

    Jules Guest

    David Mahon wrote:

    >In article <44924f50$0$28398$>, Philippe Deleye
    ><> writes
    >
    >>Note - You can test if interlevae as been set on your conncetion: just ping
    >>and measure the first hop: if it is under 20ms, interleaving is disabled. If
    >>it is above 35ms, interleaving is enabled.

    >
    >It's on for me (it helped) and the first hop outside my house is 30ms.


    I see a first hop of 26-27ms with interleaving. I don't use VOIP though,
    so can't give any comparison view on before and after.

    --
    Jules
     
    Jules, Jun 16, 2006
    #12
  13. Peter Gradwell

    alex Guest

    R. Mark Clayton wrote:
    > "Peter Gradwell" <> wrote in message
    > news:4491a17e$0$658$...
    >
    >>hi
    >>
    >>If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving, which, I
    >>understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding upto 50ms.
    >>
    >>I've got a pair of bonded MAX lines and my latency is fine, but I was
    >>wondering if anyone else was experiencing issues?
    >>
    >>thanks
    >>peter
    >>

    >
    > 50mS is neither here nor there. A satellite call to the USA inserts nearly
    > 250mS and even a subsea cable call will add ~25mS. So don't worry.
    >
    >


    But people expect more from a VoIP call than they do from a satellite call!

    alex
     
    alex, Jun 20, 2006
    #13
  14. alex wrote:
    > R. Mark Clayton wrote:
    >
    >>"Peter Gradwell" <> wrote in message
    >>news:4491a17e$0$658$...
    >>
    >>
    >>>hi
    >>>
    >>>If a customer migrates to ADSL MAX BT enable interleaving, which, I
    >>>understand can affect latency on the line, potentially adding upto 50ms.
    >>>
    >>>I've got a pair of bonded MAX lines and my latency is fine, but I was
    >>>wondering if anyone else was experiencing issues?
    >>>
    >>>thanks
    >>>peter
    >>>

    >>
    >>50mS is neither here nor there. A satellite call to the USA inserts nearly
    >>250mS and even a subsea cable call will add ~25mS. So don't worry.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > But people expect more from a VoIP call than they do from a satellite call!


    Interleaving does not introduce an audible latency on a VoIP call at
    all, and as it is a consistent latency and not jitter, it does not cause
    any problems.

    --
    Rev Adrian Kennard
     
    Rev Adrian Kennard, Jun 21, 2006
    #14
  15. Peter Gradwell

    Nick Barnes Guest

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1


    Rev Adrian Kennard wrote:
    > Interleaving does not introduce an audible latency on a VoIP call at
    > all, and as it is a consistent latency and not jitter, it does not cause
    > any problems.


    Aye. I'll second that - the office lines both have interleaving turned
    on and all our telephony goes over those lines - no problem whatsoever.

    Nick.

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    Nick Barnes, Jun 21, 2006
    #15
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