advise...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Nova, Apr 19, 2005.

  1. Nova

    Nova Guest

    A week or so ago I posted a note saying I have was having problems with
    my graphics card and that it was overheating (reaching temperatures of
    126+ degrees celcius).

    The card was bought in december 2004 and I took the card back to the
    computer shop last week telling them how hot it was, they then sent it
    away to the supplier, who has now sent it back saying its tested but not
    fault can be found.

    I have just tried it out again just to be sure that nothing has changed,
    but after a minute of playing battlefield vietnam the temperature had
    gone from an idle temperature of 62 degrees celcius up to 113.

    This was with the side panel open and a huge room fan pointed inside
    just to make sure it wasnt lack of air circulation inside the case..
    (but there are 4 case fans in there anyway)

    Can i just demmand my money back even though they think there is nothing
    wrong with it?
    Nova, Apr 19, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Nova said the following on 19/04/2005 12:24 p.m.:
    > A week or so ago I posted a note saying I have was having problems with
    > my graphics card and that it was overheating (reaching temperatures of
    > 126+ degrees celcius).
    >
    > The card was bought in december 2004 and I took the card back to the
    > computer shop last week telling them how hot it was, they then sent it
    > away to the supplier, who has now sent it back saying its tested but not
    > fault can be found.
    >
    > I have just tried it out again just to be sure that nothing has changed,
    > but after a minute of playing battlefield vietnam the temperature had
    > gone from an idle temperature of 62 degrees celcius up to 113.
    >
    > This was with the side panel open and a huge room fan pointed inside
    > just to make sure it wasnt lack of air circulation inside the case..
    > (but there are 4 case fans in there anyway)
    >
    > Can i just demmand my money back even though they think there is nothing
    > wrong with it?

    I doubt you can just demand your money back, yes there is something
    wrong but that problem may be with your system not the card.

    I would be inclined to test the card in another system with the same
    software/game.



    --
    >>Follow ups may be set to a single group when appropriate!

    ======================================================================
    | Local 40.9000°S, 174.9830°E |
    ======================================================================
    "I used to jog, but the ice kept bouncing out of my glass."
    "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine......
    However, this is not necessarily a good idea...."
    Collector»NZ, Apr 19, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Nova

    Impossible Guest

    "Collector»NZ" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Nova said the following on 19/04/2005 12:24 p.m.:
    >>
    >> Can i just demmand my money back even though they think there is
    >> nothing wrong with it?

    > I doubt you can just demand your money back, yes there is something
    > wrong but that problem may be with your system not the card.
    >
    > I would be inclined to test the card in another system with the same
    > software/game.
    >


    Why not ask the computer shop you bought the card from to drop it in a
    machine of theirs and check the temp. If they confirm it's running
    hot, then you could reasonably demand a replacement at least.
    Impossible, Apr 19, 2005
    #3
  4. Nova

    Nova Guest

    Collector»NZ wrote:
    > Nova said the following on 19/04/2005 12:24 p.m.:
    >
    >> A week or so ago I posted a note saying I have was having problems
    >> with my graphics card and that it was overheating (reaching
    >> temperatures of 126+ degrees celcius).
    >>
    >> The card was bought in december 2004 and I took the card back to the
    >> computer shop last week telling them how hot it was, they then sent it
    >> away to the supplier, who has now sent it back saying its tested but
    >> not fault can be found.
    >>
    >> I have just tried it out again just to be sure that nothing has
    >> changed, but after a minute of playing battlefield vietnam the
    >> temperature had gone from an idle temperature of 62 degrees celcius up
    >> to 113.
    >>
    >> This was with the side panel open and a huge room fan pointed inside
    >> just to make sure it wasnt lack of air circulation inside the case..
    >> (but there are 4 case fans in there anyway)
    >>
    >> Can i just demmand my money back even though they think there is
    >> nothing wrong with it?

    >
    > I doubt you can just demand your money back, yes there is something
    > wrong but that problem may be with your system not the card.
    >
    > I would be inclined to test the card in another system with the same
    > software/game.
    >
    >
    >


    I took the card back to the shop with me entire system and demonstrated
    the temperatures while letting the battlefield vietnam intro go. we
    watched the temperatures climb to 115 then stopped it. So the computer
    shop now agrees there is a problem and this time is sending the entire
    system to the supplier with instructions on how to check the temperature
    hehe.

    the interesting thing is that I had to get a unofficial bios to get the
    sensor in the card to work... so i hope the supplier doesn't try and get
    out of any warranty cause of that heh. I am wondering how the supplier
    checked the temperature of the card when i sent it, whether they changed
    the bios and used the cards internal sensor, or whether they used an
    external temperature sensor..

    The other thing was....
    a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to be
    pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can feel
    heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the heatsink
    isn't actually fully on the gpu...

    the 6600 isn't even a high end card..
    Nova, Apr 19, 2005
    #4
  5. Nova

    Max Burke Guest

    > Nova scribbled: the interesting thing is that I had to get a unofficial
    > bios to get
    > the sensor in the card to work... so i hope the supplier doesn't try
    > and get out of any warranty cause of that heh. I am wondering how
    > the supplier checked the temperature of the card when i sent it,
    > whether they changed the bios and used the cards internal sensor, or
    > whether they used an external temperature sensor..


    > The other thing was....
    > a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to
    > be pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can
    > feel heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the
    > heatsink isn't actually fully on the gpu...


    > the 6600 isn't even a high end card..


    Sounds like the 'unofficial bios' you installed was reporting a false
    temperature to me....

    126C would probably be generating a lot of smoke, if not flames from the
    card. You sure it wasn't 126F?



    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
    Max Burke, Apr 19, 2005
    #5
  6. Nova

    Nova Guest

    Max Burke wrote:
    >> Nova scribbled: the interesting thing is that I had to get a
    >> unofficial bios to get
    >> the sensor in the card to work... so i hope the supplier doesn't try
    >> and get out of any warranty cause of that heh. I am wondering how
    >> the supplier checked the temperature of the card when i sent it,
    >> whether they changed the bios and used the cards internal sensor, or
    >> whether they used an external temperature sensor..

    >
    >
    >> The other thing was....
    >> a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to
    >> be pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can
    >> feel heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the
    >> heatsink isn't actually fully on the gpu...

    >
    >
    >> the 6600 isn't even a high end card..

    >
    >
    > Sounds like the 'unofficial bios' you installed was reporting a false
    > temperature to me....
    >
    > 126C would probably be generating a lot of smoke, if not flames from the
    > card. You sure it wasn't 126F?
    >
    >
    >



    heh no, nice guess, it's celcius, and yes that would be why its crashing
    horribly cause its so hot (which is the problem). and when i say
    unofficial, its Nvidia's BIOS, so its not some dodgey BIOS, its just not
    sparkles who repackage the card and sell it and removed the temp. sensor
    to supposedly hinder/discourage overclockers.

    and a search on google you will see plenty of other people have cards
    running at temperatures in the high 90's (celcius) and some that have
    cards running hot like mine, and no they don't produce flames or smoke.

    even the threshold in the nvidia control panel is at 145 degrees
    celcius, though sparkle said their cards shouldnt be running hotter than
    100 or something is wrong (eg it dies like mine does)
    Nova, Apr 19, 2005
    #6
  7. Nova

    James West Guest

    "Nova" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Max Burke wrote:
    >>> Nova scribbled: the interesting thing is that I had to get a unofficial
    >>> bios to get
    >>> the sensor in the card to work... so i hope the supplier doesn't try
    >>> and get out of any warranty cause of that heh. I am wondering how
    >>> the supplier checked the temperature of the card when i sent it,
    >>> whether they changed the bios and used the cards internal sensor, or
    >>> whether they used an external temperature sensor..

    >>
    >>
    >>> The other thing was....
    >>> a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to
    >>> be pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can
    >>> feel heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the
    >>> heatsink isn't actually fully on the gpu...

    >>
    >>
    >>> the 6600 isn't even a high end card..

    >>
    >>
    >> Sounds like the 'unofficial bios' you installed was reporting a false
    >> temperature to me....
    >>
    >> 126C would probably be generating a lot of smoke, if not flames from the
    >> card. You sure it wasn't 126F?
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > heh no, nice guess, it's celcius, and yes that would be why its crashing
    > horribly cause its so hot (which is the problem). and when i say
    > unofficial, its Nvidia's BIOS, so its not some dodgey BIOS, its just not
    > sparkles who repackage the card and sell it and removed the temp. sensor
    > to supposedly hinder/discourage overclockers.
    >
    > and a search on google you will see plenty of other people have cards
    > running at temperatures in the high 90's (celcius) and some that have
    > cards running hot like mine, and no they don't produce flames or smoke.
    >
    > even the threshold in the nvidia control panel is at 145 degrees celcius,
    > though sparkle said their cards shouldnt be running hotter than 100 or
    > something is wrong (eg it dies like mine does)


    you do relise their was an issue with the newer NV drivers that mis-reported
    temps off the die?

    belive it's fixed now

    James


    >
    >
    >
    James West, Apr 19, 2005
    #7
  8. On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:24:36 +1200, Nova <> wrote:

    >A week or so ago I posted a note saying I have was having problems with
    >my graphics card and that it was overheating (reaching temperatures of
    >126+ degrees celcius).
    >
    >The card was bought in december 2004 and I took the card back to the
    >computer shop last week telling them how hot it was, they then sent it
    >away to the supplier, who has now sent it back saying its tested but not
    >fault can be found.
    >
    >I have just tried it out again just to be sure that nothing has changed,
    >but after a minute of playing battlefield vietnam the temperature had
    >gone from an idle temperature of 62 degrees celcius up to 113.
    >
    >This was with the side panel open and a huge room fan pointed inside
    >just to make sure it wasnt lack of air circulation inside the case..
    >(but there are 4 case fans in there anyway)
    >
    >Can i just demmand my money back even though they think there is nothing
    >wrong with it?


    Can you measure the temp with a separate temp probe
    This will ensure it isn't a calibration error with the sensors
    FreedomChooser, Apr 19, 2005
    #8
  9. On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:25:53 +1200, Nova <> wrote:

    >Collector»NZ wrote:
    >> Nova said the following on 19/04/2005 12:24 p.m.:
    >>
    >>> A week or so ago I posted a note saying I have was having problems
    >>> with my graphics card and that it was overheating (reaching
    >>> temperatures of 126+ degrees celcius).
    >>>
    >>> The card was bought in december 2004 and I took the card back to the
    >>> computer shop last week telling them how hot it was, they then sent it
    >>> away to the supplier, who has now sent it back saying its tested but
    >>> not fault can be found.
    >>>
    >>> I have just tried it out again just to be sure that nothing has
    >>> changed, but after a minute of playing battlefield vietnam the
    >>> temperature had gone from an idle temperature of 62 degrees celcius up
    >>> to 113.
    >>>
    >>> This was with the side panel open and a huge room fan pointed inside
    >>> just to make sure it wasnt lack of air circulation inside the case..
    >>> (but there are 4 case fans in there anyway)
    >>>
    >>> Can i just demmand my money back even though they think there is
    >>> nothing wrong with it?

    >>
    >> I doubt you can just demand your money back, yes there is something
    >> wrong but that problem may be with your system not the card.
    >>
    >> I would be inclined to test the card in another system with the same
    >> software/game.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >I took the card back to the shop with me entire system and demonstrated
    >the temperatures while letting the battlefield vietnam intro go. we
    >watched the temperatures climb to 115 then stopped it. So the computer
    >shop now agrees there is a problem and this time is sending the entire
    >system to the supplier with instructions on how to check the temperature
    >hehe.
    >
    >the interesting thing is that I had to get a unofficial bios to get the
    >sensor in the card to work... so i hope the supplier doesn't try and get
    >out of any warranty cause of that heh. I am wondering how the supplier
    >checked the temperature of the card when i sent it, whether they changed
    >the bios and used the cards internal sensor, or whether they used an
    >external temperature sensor..
    >
    >The other thing was....
    >a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to be
    >pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can feel
    >heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the heatsink
    >isn't actually fully on the gpu...


    The prob is where is the sensor

    On motherboards the CPu sensor usually is under the motherboard
    Meaning compensation has to be added and this can only ever be an
    estimate
    FreedomChooser, Apr 19, 2005
    #9
  10. On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:18:47 +1200, Nova <> wrote:

    >Max Burke wrote:
    >>> Nova scribbled: the interesting thing is that I had to get a
    >>> unofficial bios to get
    >>> the sensor in the card to work... so i hope the supplier doesn't try
    >>> and get out of any warranty cause of that heh. I am wondering how
    >>> the supplier checked the temperature of the card when i sent it,
    >>> whether they changed the bios and used the cards internal sensor, or
    >>> whether they used an external temperature sensor..

    >>
    >>
    >>> The other thing was....
    >>> a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to
    >>> be pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can
    >>> feel heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the
    >>> heatsink isn't actually fully on the gpu...

    >>
    >>
    >>> the 6600 isn't even a high end card..

    >>
    >>
    >> Sounds like the 'unofficial bios' you installed was reporting a false
    >> temperature to me....
    >>
    >> 126C would probably be generating a lot of smoke, if not flames from the
    >> card. You sure it wasn't 126F?
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >heh no, nice guess, it's celcius, and yes that would be why its crashing
    >horribly cause its so hot (which is the problem). and when i say
    >unofficial, its Nvidia's BIOS, so its not some dodgey BIOS, its just not
    >sparkles who repackage the card and sell it and removed the temp. sensor
    >to supposedly hinder/discourage overclockers.
    >
    >and a search on google you will see plenty of other people have cards
    >running at temperatures in the high 90's (celcius) and some that have
    >cards running hot like mine, and no they don't produce flames or smoke.
    >
    >even the threshold in the nvidia control panel is at 145 degrees
    >celcius, though sparkle said their cards shouldnt be running hotter than
    >100 or something is wrong (eg it dies like mine does)


    The problem is typical ICs are designed for something like 70C max
    has to be a prtetty special chip more like mil spec to go that hot
    FreedomChooser, Apr 19, 2005
    #10
  11. Nova

    steve Guest

    Nova wrote:

    > This was with the side panel open and a huge room fan pointed inside
    > just to make sure it wasnt lack of air circulation inside the case..
    > (but there are 4 case fans in there anyway)


    Are you sure the fan on the card is actually working?

    > Can i just demmand my money back even though they think there is nothing
    > wrong with it?
    steve, Apr 19, 2005
    #11
  12. Nova

    grolschie Guest

    "Nova" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Max Burke wrote:
    >>> Nova scribbled: the interesting thing is that I had to get a unofficial
    >>> bios to get
    >>> the sensor in the card to work... so i hope the supplier doesn't try
    >>> and get out of any warranty cause of that heh. I am wondering how
    >>> the supplier checked the temperature of the card when i sent it,
    >>> whether they changed the bios and used the cards internal sensor, or
    >>> whether they used an external temperature sensor..

    >>
    >>
    >>> The other thing was....
    >>> a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to
    >>> be pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can
    >>> feel heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the
    >>> heatsink isn't actually fully on the gpu...

    >>
    >>
    >>> the 6600 isn't even a high end card..

    >>
    >>
    >> Sounds like the 'unofficial bios' you installed was reporting a false
    >> temperature to me....
    >>
    >> 126C would probably be generating a lot of smoke, if not flames from the
    >> card. You sure it wasn't 126F?
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > heh no, nice guess, it's celcius, and yes that would be why its crashing
    > horribly cause its so hot (which is the problem). and when i say
    > unofficial, its Nvidia's BIOS, so its not some dodgey BIOS, its just not
    > sparkles who repackage the card and sell it and removed the temp. sensor
    > to supposedly hinder/discourage overclockers.
    >
    > and a search on google you will see plenty of other people have cards
    > running at temperatures in the high 90's (celcius) and some that have
    > cards running hot like mine, and no they don't produce flames or smoke.
    >
    > even the threshold in the nvidia control panel is at 145 degrees celcius,
    > though sparkle said their cards shouldnt be running hotter than 100 or
    > something is wrong (eg it dies like mine does)


    126c is more than "mildy warm". You'd burn your finger touching something
    that hot.
    grol
    grolschie, Apr 19, 2005
    #12
  13. Nova

    ~misfit~ Guest

    FreedomChooser wrote:
    >
    > The prob is where is the sensor
    >
    > On motherboards the CPu sensor usually is under the motherboard
    > Meaning compensation has to be added and this can only ever be an
    > estimate


    The sensor on my Athlon XP 1800 is on-die, right in there with all the
    transistors and stuff.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Apr 19, 2005
    #13
  14. Nova

    Nova Guest

    steve wrote:
    > Nova wrote:
    >
    >> This was with the side panel open and a huge room fan pointed inside
    >> just to make sure it wasnt lack of air circulation inside the case..
    >> (but there are 4 case fans in there anyway)

    >
    >
    > Are you sure the fan on the card is actually working?


    Yes.
    >
    >> Can i just demmand my money back even though they think there is
    >> nothing wrong with it?
    Nova, Apr 19, 2005
    #14
  15. Nova

    Nova Guest

    grolschie wrote:
    > "Nova" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Max Burke wrote:
    >>
    >>>>Nova scribbled: the interesting thing is that I had to get a unofficial
    >>>>bios to get
    >>>>the sensor in the card to work... so i hope the supplier doesn't try
    >>>>and get out of any warranty cause of that heh. I am wondering how
    >>>>the supplier checked the temperature of the card when i sent it,
    >>>>whether they changed the bios and used the cards internal sensor, or
    >>>>whether they used an external temperature sensor..
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>The other thing was....
    >>>>a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to
    >>>>be pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can
    >>>>feel heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the
    >>>>heatsink isn't actually fully on the gpu...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>the 6600 isn't even a high end card..
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Sounds like the 'unofficial bios' you installed was reporting a false
    >>>temperature to me....
    >>>
    >>>126C would probably be generating a lot of smoke, if not flames from the
    >>>card. You sure it wasn't 126F?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>heh no, nice guess, it's celcius, and yes that would be why its crashing
    >>horribly cause its so hot (which is the problem). and when i say
    >>unofficial, its Nvidia's BIOS, so its not some dodgey BIOS, its just not
    >>sparkles who repackage the card and sell it and removed the temp. sensor
    >>to supposedly hinder/discourage overclockers.
    >>
    >>and a search on google you will see plenty of other people have cards
    >>running at temperatures in the high 90's (celcius) and some that have
    >>cards running hot like mine, and no they don't produce flames or smoke.
    >>
    >>even the threshold in the nvidia control panel is at 145 degrees celcius,
    >>though sparkle said their cards shouldnt be running hotter than 100 or
    >>something is wrong (eg it dies like mine does)

    >
    >
    > 126c is more than "mildy warm". You'd burn your finger touching something
    > that hot.
    > grol
    >
    >


    yes i realise that, thats why im wondering why the heatsink isnt that
    hot which makes me suspicious its not seated properly hence not taking
    away the heat from the gpu which is the problem as the gpu is getting to
    hot.
    Nova, Apr 19, 2005
    #15
  16. Nova

    Nova Guest

    James West wrote:
    > "Nova" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Max Burke wrote:
    >>
    >>>>Nova scribbled: the interesting thing is that I had to get a unofficial
    >>>>bios to get
    >>>>the sensor in the card to work... so i hope the supplier doesn't try
    >>>>and get out of any warranty cause of that heh. I am wondering how
    >>>>the supplier checked the temperature of the card when i sent it,
    >>>>whether they changed the bios and used the cards internal sensor, or
    >>>>whether they used an external temperature sensor..
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>The other thing was....
    >>>>a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to
    >>>>be pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can
    >>>>feel heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the
    >>>>heatsink isn't actually fully on the gpu...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>the 6600 isn't even a high end card..
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Sounds like the 'unofficial bios' you installed was reporting a false
    >>>temperature to me....
    >>>
    >>>126C would probably be generating a lot of smoke, if not flames from the
    >>>card. You sure it wasn't 126F?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>heh no, nice guess, it's celcius, and yes that would be why its crashing
    >>horribly cause its so hot (which is the problem). and when i say
    >>unofficial, its Nvidia's BIOS, so its not some dodgey BIOS, its just not
    >>sparkles who repackage the card and sell it and removed the temp. sensor
    >>to supposedly hinder/discourage overclockers.
    >>
    >>and a search on google you will see plenty of other people have cards
    >>running at temperatures in the high 90's (celcius) and some that have
    >>cards running hot like mine, and no they don't produce flames or smoke.
    >>
    >>even the threshold in the nvidia control panel is at 145 degrees celcius,
    >>though sparkle said their cards shouldnt be running hotter than 100 or
    >>something is wrong (eg it dies like mine does)

    >
    >
    > you do relise their was an issue with the newer NV drivers that mis-reported
    > temps off the die?
    >
    > belive it's fixed now


    well, i dont think thats the case here, cause i have the same drivers on
    other systems that report much lower temperatures, and if i drop a
    second card in thats the same model the temperature is a good 30 degrees
    lower, so i think this card was just screwy :).

    Theres loads of cases on the internet that i found where people had over
    heating problems and random crashes

    2 top causes for failures were
    psu not powerful enough
    overheating

    and on the 6600 there were a lot that went out where the heatsink wasn't
    probably seated on the HSI bridge.


    >
    > James
    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    Nova, Apr 19, 2005
    #16
  17. In article <>, Nova <> wrote:

    >The other thing was....
    >a card that is at over 100 degrees, you would expect the heat sink to be
    >pretty hot yes?, well the one in mine is mildy warm.. but you can feel
    >heat in the air around the card.. just makes me suspect the heatsink
    >isn't actually fully on the gpu...


    Could be a simple cockup like forgetting to put on some thermal paste!
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Apr 25, 2005
    #17
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. =?Utf-8?B?Umljaw==?=

    O.K. novice at work here!! Please advise..

    =?Utf-8?B?Umljaw==?=, Dec 23, 2004, in forum: Wireless Networking
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    565
    Carey Holzman
    Dec 24, 2004
  2. Awie
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    3,702
    Digital Doug
    Jul 13, 2003
  3. LSB

    Please Advise

    LSB, Aug 13, 2003, in forum: MCSD
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    497
    Jean-Michel Donatelli
    Aug 18, 2003
  4. Arash Aghlara

    Give me an advise!

    Arash Aghlara, Jun 13, 2004, in forum: MCSD
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    570
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
    Jun 15, 2004
  5. Rukku ddin

    Give me Advise

    Rukku ddin, Mar 30, 2005, in forum: MCSD
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    387
    FYI-Geek101
    Mar 31, 2005
Loading...

Share This Page