Advise me P&S camera with wide angle and articluated LCD ?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Beladi Nasralla, Nov 25, 2007.

  1. Hi there,

    Can you recommend me a P&S compact camera which will fit my
    requirements ? For work, I need to make the full pictures of equipment
    located in crevices of buildings. Or, say, full pictures of walls in
    the niches of buildings. In other words, the pictures have to be done
    from a short distance by a wide-angle camera. The LCD screen should be
    articlulated or flippable, so that I would be able to frame and see
    what I am taking, from an akward position (such as from floor).

    I used Nikon S4. Its screen is articlulated al'right. However, its
    focal length is 35 mm equivalent. (And I did not use the zoom which
    was 10x in this camera). I was not able to fit the whole equipment
    into the picture.

    I also have Panasonic LX1, and its focal length is 28 mm. I think this
    is not wide enough, but definetely better than a 35 mm camera.

    I checked the Canon and Panasonic line of cameras on dpreview.com ...
    nothing suitable came out. Maybe someonbe could advise me better ?
    Thanks.
     
    Beladi Nasralla, Nov 25, 2007
    #1
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  2. Beladi Nasralla wrote:
    []
    > I checked the Canon and Panasonic line of cameras on dpreview.com ...
    > nothing suitable came out. Maybe someonbe could advise me better ?
    > Thanks.


    Nikon Coolpix 8400. 24mm wide-angle. Full swivel LCD.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp8400/

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 25, 2007
    #2
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  3. On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 04:51:26 -0800 (PST), Beladi Nasralla <>
    wrote:

    >Hi there,
    >
    >Can you recommend me a P&S compact camera which will fit my
    >requirements ? For work, I need to make the full pictures of equipment
    >located in crevices of buildings. Or, say, full pictures of walls in
    >the niches of buildings. In other words, the pictures have to be done
    >from a short distance by a wide-angle camera. The LCD screen should be
    >articlulated or flippable, so that I would be able to frame and see
    >what I am taking, from an akward position (such as from floor).
    >
    >I used Nikon S4. Its screen is articlulated al'right. However, its
    >focal length is 35 mm equivalent. (And I did not use the zoom which
    >was 10x in this camera). I was not able to fit the whole equipment
    >into the picture.
    >
    >I also have Panasonic LX1, and its focal length is 28 mm. I think this
    >is not wide enough, but definetely better than a 35 mm camera.
    >
    >I checked the Canon and Panasonic line of cameras on dpreview.com ...
    >nothing suitable came out. Maybe someonbe could advise me better ?
    >Thanks.
    >


    You'll probably have to check into many of the high-quality wide-angle adapter
    lenses that are now available for a whole array of P&S cameras. You are right on
    the mark about needing that articulating LCD. You can place the camera right up
    against the opposing wall, flip the screen facing you, and frame and compose the
    shot without even needing your head behind the camera, providing even more
    distance between camera-lens and subject.

    Since the wide-angle adapters will provide all you need, don't be too concerned
    about the widest angle of the camera lens itself. Just look for articulating LCD
    and that it has the capability for filters or add-on lenses. All adapter lenses
    attach with a screw mount unless specifically designed for a particular make and
    model of camera. Most newer cameras require a "filter adapter" that
    bayonet-mounts to the camera body to which you can attach all your filters and
    add-on lenses. If the camera has a filter-thread in the camera lens itself then
    a filter/lens-adapter is not needed. You'll have to research which add-on lenses
    will mate to the same size filter threads for the camera you chose. Or use
    filter step-ring adapter to go from, for example, 52mm camera lens filter thread
    to 58mm add-on-lens thread. Adorama carries a whole slew of inexpensive
    step-rings and even many of the filter adapters for the more popular cameras.

    You might also consider a camera with some decent zoom range on it and a
    high-quality fish-eye adapter (my preferred method) because you can use the zoom
    to decide how wide of an angle you want to capture, from a full 180 degrees up
    to the widest angle of the camera itself just by zooming in on that 180-degree
    view. Be reminded that you'll have to fix any barrel distortion in your images
    later if using a good fish-eye lens for this purpose. Most every decent editor
    has barrel distortion correction tools.

    I don't have time to search them all out for you. There's quite a few models,
    new and old, that will fit the bill. It takes me about 3 months of research any
    time I am hunting down a new camera model for myself. There's that much work put
    into it if you want the very best in options and quality. Don't reject older
    cameras, some of them are still better than the newer models coming out.
    Companies got caught up in the pixel-wars in the last 3 years, where there was
    no more resolution nor quality to be had, just more money.


    (I think I now see why dslr fans don't care to find the very best P&S cameras.
    They don't want to have to do all the work to find the very best lenses amongst
    the infinitely huge number of options in P&S cameras. They want their camera
    company to tell them what they will need, and be limited to only what their
    company provides for them with their dedicated overpriced lenses. How very sad.
    How very lazy. How very immature. "Someone feed me please! I don't know how to
    research all the lenses and options! Whaa!")
     
    ItsNotThatEasy, Nov 25, 2007
    #3
  4. On Nov 26, 12:18 am, ItsNotThatEasy <> wrote:

    > You'll probably have to check into many of the high-quality wide-angle adapter
    > lenses that are now available for a whole array of P&S cameras. ...


    Thanks for advice and writing a lot. I was already suggested in the
    post above that the camera suitable to my needs could be Nikon Coolpix
    8400. Yes, 24 mm is sweet. What is not sweet is its weight, 480 g. I
    would like to be able to crawl among the scientific equipment in a
    robe, and then whip out a compact camera out of my pocket, and take a
    snap. This likely eliminates the "prosumer" cameras (such as 8400). I
    need something compact.

    Having a wide-angle add-on lens (or a fish eye) is good from an
    optical point of view... but again, I do not want to take the camera
    out of my pocket, screw the wide-angle add-on lens onto the camera,
    and snap the picture... it is too cumbersome.

    I made a more thorough search on dpreview. They have Ricoh Caplio
    GX100... its focal length is even shorter, 24 mm. However, it does not
    have articulated screen... only sweaveable electronic viewfinder,
    which is a joke for my application.
     
    Beladi Nasralla, Nov 25, 2007
    #4
  5. Beladi Nasralla

    Yoshi Guest

    "Beladi Nasralla" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Nov 26, 12:18 am, ItsNotThatEasy <> wrote:
    >
    >> You'll probably have to check into many of the high-quality wide-angle
    >> adapter
    >> lenses that are now available for a whole array of P&S cameras. ...

    >
    > Thanks for advice and writing a lot. I was already suggested in the
    > post above that the camera suitable to my needs could be Nikon Coolpix
    > 8400. Yes, 24 mm is sweet. What is not sweet is its weight, 480 g. I
    > would like to be able to crawl among the scientific equipment in a
    > robe, and then whip out a compact camera out of my pocket, and take a
    > snap. This likely eliminates the "prosumer" cameras (such as 8400). I
    > need something compact.
    >
    > Having a wide-angle add-on lens (or a fish eye) is good from an
    > optical point of view... but again, I do not want to take the camera
    > out of my pocket, screw the wide-angle add-on lens onto the camera,
    > and snap the picture... it is too cumbersome.
    >
    > I made a more thorough search on dpreview. They have Ricoh Caplio
    > GX100... its focal length is even shorter, 24 mm. However, it does not
    > have articulated screen... only sweaveable electronic viewfinder,
    > which is a joke for my application.
    >


    WTF is "sweaveable"?
     
    Yoshi, Nov 25, 2007
    #5
  6. David J Taylor, Nov 25, 2007
    #6
  7. Beladi Nasralla wrote:
    > Hi there,
    >
    > Can you recommend me a P&S compact camera which will fit my
    > requirements ? For work, I need to make the full pictures of equipment
    > located in crevices of buildings. Or, say, full pictures of walls in
    > the niches of buildings. In other words, the pictures have to be done
    > from a short distance by a wide-angle camera. The LCD screen should be
    > articlulated or flippable, so that I would be able to frame and see
    > what I am taking, from an akward position (such as from floor).
    >
    > I used Nikon S4. Its screen is articlulated al'right. However, its
    > focal length is 35 mm equivalent. (And I did not use the zoom which
    > was 10x in this camera). I was not able to fit the whole equipment
    > into the picture.
    >
    > I also have Panasonic LX1, and its focal length is 28 mm. I think this
    > is not wide enough, but definetely better than a 35 mm camera.
    >
    > I checked the Canon and Panasonic line of cameras on dpreview.com ...
    > nothing suitable came out. Maybe someonbe could advise me better ?
    > Thanks.


    I was looking for the same thing, but unfortunately there are no such
    P&S cameras anymore. I love the articulating LCD on my G2.

    What you should look for is a used Nikon Coolpix 8400. This has a 24 -
    85 mm lens, and a flip out LCD.

    There are add-on lens converters for some point and shoot models, but
    these usually are 0.8x and will turn a 35mm lens into a 28mm. The bigger
    problem is that even the best quality converter is still pretty lousy,
    though from the description of what you need to do, the image quality
    isn't all that important.

    With Canon, you could get the discontinued A630 or A640 and use an
    add-on lens, or the still in production S5 IS, and get the articulating
    LCD, and use an add-on lens. The current S5 IS plus the Canon WC-DC58A
    wide converter, plus the LAH-DC20 lens adapter, would get you down to 27mm.

    The problem you have is that everyone that is serious about wide angle
    photography has moved onto D-SLRs because the quality is magnitudes
    better with a real wide angle lens than with the converters. You could
    attach a Zigview to a D-SLR to achieve the capability you need, see
    "http://www.zigview.co.uk/".
     
    SMS 斯蒂文• å¤, Nov 25, 2007
    #7
  8. SMS 斯蒂文• å¤ wrote:

    <snip>

    > There are add-on lens converters for some point and shoot models, but
    > these usually are 0.8x and will turn a 35mm lens into a 28mm. The bigger
    > problem is that even the best quality converter is still pretty lousy,
    > though from the description of what you need to do, the image quality
    > isn't all that important.


    I should have pointed out that there are even wider angle converters
    such as the 0.66 Raynox, which would turn a 35mm lens into a 23mm, or
    the 0.7x Raynox which would give you 24.5mm. The wider the converter,
    the lower the quality, and none of the converters are all that great to
    begin with (Olympus had one good one that was used by a lot of people
    even on non-Olympus cameras, but it's discontinued).

    The Raynox has 52mm threading. For the S5 IS, you could get the Lensmate
    52mm adapter tube (not the Canon adapter tube which is 58mm), and then
    get the Raynox DCR-6600Pro ($140), or the Raynox DCR-730 ($70). See
    "http://www.lensmateonline.com/newsite/S2.html".

    There are also 0.5x converters with 58mm threading, but again the
    quality is really poor.

    Note that the used Nikon 8400's tend to go for very high prices because
    of its uniqueness as the only wide-angle P&S with a tilt/swivel LCD.
    You'll probably spend less on and S5 IS ($343 at Amazon, $334 at
    Buydig), the Lensmate adapter, and the Raynox conversion lens, but of
    course the picture quality won't be as good with the conversion lens.
     
    SMS 斯蒂文• å¤, Nov 25, 2007
    #8
  9. Beladi Nasralla

    irwell Guest

    On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:29:29 GMT, "David J Taylor"
    <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote:

    >Yoshi wrote:
    >[]
    >> WTF is "sweaveable"?

    >
    >Removable: see:
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0703/07032801ricohgx100.asp
    >
    >David
    >

    He also might have meant to write 'swivelable', if there is
    such a word. Anyway the removable Ricoh viewfinder also has
    a tilt mode, maybe this is what he means.
     
    irwell, Nov 25, 2007
    #9
  10. On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:46:23 -0800, SMS ???• ? <>
    wrote:

    >There are add-on lens converters for some point and shoot models, but
    >these usually are 0.8x and will turn a 35mm lens into a 28mm. The bigger
    >problem is that even the best quality converter is still pretty lousy,
    >though from the description of what you need to do, the image quality
    >isn't all that important.


    Please refrain from broadcasting your ignorant misinformed opinions. There are
    around 100 or more 3rd party add-on lenses from some very reputable
    manufacturers. Sony, Olympus, Canon, etc. All the way from 180 degree fish-eye
    lenses to the lowly and somewhat ineffective 0.8x converters that you talk
    about. The most commonly purchased lenses in the 0.4x to 0.6x category. One of
    my 0.25x adapters works exceptionally well for ultra-wide use. It's better than
    any comparable SLR and DSLR lenses that I've ever tested as a matter of FACT.

    To correct more of your lame information and ignorance, some of these lenses can
    actually IMPROVE on the performance of the OEM camera lens because they are so
    well made.

    Get your facts straight or turn off your computer. You're wasting the valuable
    time of experienced people when they have to constantly correct all the blatant
    BS that you spew out into the world.
     
    Moron Corrector, Nov 25, 2007
    #10
  11. On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:27:39 -0800, SMS ???• ? <>
    wrote:

    >SMS ???• ? wrote:
    >
    ><snip>


    <more inexperienced and misinformed BS snipped>
     
    Moron Corrector, Nov 25, 2007
    #11
  12. Moron Corrector wrote:

    Dear Mr. Corrector

    > Please refrain from broadcasting your ignorant misinformed opinions.

    [...]
    > To correct more of your lame information and ignorance, some of these

    [...]
    > Get your facts straight or turn off your computer. You're wasting the
    > valuable time of experienced people when they have to constantly
    > correct all the blatant BS that you spew out into the world.


    Sir, your parents found a very fitting given name for you.

    Sincerely

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Nov 25, 2007
    #12
  13. Beladi Nasralla wrote:

    > Having a wide-angle add-on lens (or a fish eye) is good from an
    > optical point of view... but again, I do not want to take the camera
    > out of my pocket, screw the wide-angle add-on lens onto the camera,
    > and snap the picture... it is too cumbersome.


    It is _very_ cumbersome. I have the WA converter for my G2, and I don't
    rarely use it. First, you have to remove part of the camera, screw on
    the tube, and then screw on the lens. Also, the converters, be they
    telephoto or wide angle, are not nearly as good in terms of picture
    quality as using the camera's real lens. I bought the best converter for
    my G2, and it's still not great. The low-end converters are downright
    horrible.

    > I made a more thorough search on dpreview. They have Ricoh Caplio
    > GX100... its focal length is even shorter, 24 mm. However, it does not
    > have articulated screen... only sweaveable electronic viewfinder,
    > which is a joke for my application.


    Yes, the Caplio GX100 is the only point and shoot currently on the
    market with 24mm at the wide end, but as you found, the removeable EVF
    won't work for you. The problem now is that since so many people are
    going to D-SLRs, the selection and features of P&S cameras has been hurt
    because there's not much demand for a high-end P&S anymore.

    I don't think any camera exists that will work for you as sold. Here's
    one thing you could do:

    Get the Canon SD800 IS which is 28mm at the wide end, then connect a
    little 2.5" LCD TV to the video-out jack, which turns off the camera's
    LCD display and shows you the image on the TV's LCD. Voila, you have a
    remote LCD display.

    See
    "http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Axion-2.5-inch-Portable-Rechargeable-Handheld-TV/2655248/product.html"
    for one suitable TV, for $43. These little TVs are widely used by video
    professionals as portable monitors when doing installations. I used
    something similar when installing a satellite dish.
     
    SMS 斯蒂文• å¤, Nov 25, 2007
    #13
  14. On Nov 25, 11:10 pm, "David J Taylor" <-
    this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote:
    > Beladi Nasralla wrote:
    >
    > []
    >
    > > I checked the Canon and Panasonic line of cameras on dpreview.com ...
    > > nothing suitable came out. Maybe someonbe could advise me better ?
    > > Thanks.

    >
    > Nikon Coolpix 8400. 24mm wide-angle. Full swivel LCD.
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp8400/


    Gee. It looks like I have to use Nikon 8400. It fits the bill
    completely. Except that it weights too much (almost 0.5 kg). And I
    expected a P&S camera of a mass of about 200 g.

    Sigma DP-1 could be what I am looking for... but no, its lens is not
    wide enough (28 mm), and it does not have a swivelable LCD screen. Oh
    well.
     
    Beladi Nasralla, Dec 2, 2007
    #14
  15. Beladi Nasralla wrote:
    > On Nov 25, 11:10 pm, "David J Taylor" <-

    []
    >> Nikon Coolpix 8400. 24mm wide-angle. Full swivel LCD.
    >>
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp8400/

    >
    > Gee. It looks like I have to use Nikon 8400. It fits the bill
    > completely. Except that it weights too much (almost 0.5 kg). And I
    > expected a P&S camera of a mass of about 200 g.


    I think you will find that at least some of the weight is simply a
    reflection of the build quality. Pick up the camera and see what I mean.
    I hope it will do the job for you.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 2, 2007
    #15
  16. Beladi Nasralla

    Mr. Strat Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Beladi Nasralla <> wrote:

    > Sigma DP-1 could be what I am looking for... but no, its lens is not
    > wide enough (28 mm), and it does not have a swivelable LCD screen. Oh
    > well.


    Jeez...when will Sigma die-hards give it up? Their cameras are shit,
    the technology they use is shit, the images they create are shit.
     
    Mr. Strat, Dec 2, 2007
    #16
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