Advice, please

Discussion in 'MCDST' started by SteveH, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. SteveH

    SteveH Guest

    Hello

    I had hoped to take the MCDST exam for XP in the next few months (I've
    bought the books, and spent some time working through them).

    However, given that many users are likely to go from XP direct to Win 7, is
    it worth abandoning that idea altogether and prepare for a Win 7 rquivalent
    of MCDST (if there is one)? Or, will the MCDST in XP be considered of value
    in and of itself even though support for XP is likely to be withdrawn at some
    stage soon?

    Thanks.

    Steve
     
    SteveH, Nov 13, 2009
    #1
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  2. "SteveH" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello
    >
    > I had hoped to take the MCDST exam for XP in the next few months (I've
    > bought the books, and spent some time working through them).
    >
    > However, given that many users are likely to go from XP direct to Win 7,
    > is
    > it worth abandoning that idea altogether and prepare for a Win 7
    > rquivalent


    I believe so.

    > of MCDST (if there is one)?


    There is. In fact, there are now two options for desktop enterprise
    certification:
    http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/cert-windowsclient.aspx#tab3

    MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator 7
    MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician 7


    > Or, will the MCDST in XP be considered of value
    > in and of itself even though support for XP is likely to be withdrawn at
    > some
    > stage soon?


    About as much as a B.S. in Biology when applying for a civil engineering
    job, perhaps. :)


    --
    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)

    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Microsoft WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
     
    Lawrence Garvin [MVP], Nov 13, 2009
    #2
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  3. SteveH

    SteveH Guest

    Hello Lawrence

    Many thanks for your reply.

    I agree - I'll abandon XP and look into the Win 7 exam options.

    I presume either/both MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator 7/Desktop
    Support Technician 7 lead to a Windows Systems Admin qualification somewhere
    down the road, and I would expect anyone with a fair grasp of XP not to have
    too many problems with 7 (only my opinion).

    Cheers

    Steve
     
    SteveH, Nov 17, 2009
    #3
  4. "SteveH" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello Lawrence
    >
    > Many thanks for your reply.
    >
    > I agree - I'll abandon XP and look into the Win 7 exam options.
    >
    > I presume either/both MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator 7/Desktop
    > Support Technician 7 lead to a Windows Systems Admin qualification
    > somewhere
    > down the road, and I would expect anyone with a fair grasp of XP not to
    > have
    > too many problems with 7 (only my opinion).


    I don't think there's a certification anywhere that can be characterized as
    "leading to" any particular job or career.

    Job skills and experience (aka "expertise") are what leads to promotions and
    career advancement.

    As noted elsewhere, the purpose of certifications are to document actual
    work knowledge and experience. A person with a cert and no expertise will
    stick out like a sore thumb in an interview (trust me, I've interviewed
    them!), and (at least for me) be rapidly invited to "Have a Good Day."

    --
    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)

    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Microsoft WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
     
    Lawrence Garvin [MVP], Nov 17, 2009
    #4
  5. SteveH

    John R Guest

    "Lawrence Garvin [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Job skills and experience (aka "expertise") are what leads to promotions
    > and career advancement.
    >


    Wow, where do you work? That's not how it works around here, trust me :)

    John R.
     
    John R, Nov 17, 2009
    #5
  6. SteveH

    Jim Guest

    Hi,

    This would depend on your curent or future job role.

    The statements that have been made regarding XP and Win7 are a little brash.
    Consider Vista, an OS that was pretty much ignored by major business because
    it had more faults than a 70 year old banger (car here in the uk). This
    meant that most business's refused to upgrade which was in turn most likely
    the main reason that MS shipped out Win7 as fast as they could after Vista.
    Alot of business's won't actually upgrade there computers until an OS has
    been tried and tested by others, this is both safer and therefore less
    expensive for them in the long run.

    So then, XP may or may not have some life left in it yet, dependant on how
    big business takes to Win7. I know that personally, the business I work for
    supports over 3000 client machines in the field, and these will stay XP
    until more drivers are created and tested for Win7.

    Our internal dept have started using/testing Win7 and have found a few
    problems. Some that can be managed easily and some that cannot. Currently
    our DC dept are using Win7 and report that it is brilliant, but in order to
    print any documents to our (common as muck) HP printers they have to forward
    them to the Servicedesk as HP do not currently have drivers available.

    Small problems I know, and despite this, I have upgraded my lappy to Win7
    and am loving it. But the above are the types of issues that will impact how
    Win7 is received by the market out there.

    Short story? The MCDST won't be wasted. Companies will still be using XP for
    some years to come. And one thing to consider.... you can upgrade the DST to
    MCITP in one or two extra exams (cant remember if its one or two) which are
    directed at Win7.

    If you have a job where you will be supporting XP, you need the DST. If you
    try and get a job and only have Win7 quals, you may be up to date, but you
    will be more or less useless to a company that supports XP due to the
    differing architecture.

    My advise... go MCP mad... choose your path and get as many of those things
    under your belt as you can. But learn properly. I've interviewed what we
    refer to as 'Magazine Qualified' applicants myself... and they stand out a
    mile away.. and I too tend to find the quickest way to end the interview
    politely.

    -JDW




    "John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Lawrence Garvin [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> Job skills and experience (aka "expertise") are what leads to promotions
    >> and career advancement.
    >>

    >
    > Wow, where do you work? That's not how it works around here, trust me :)
    >
    > John R.
     
    Jim, Nov 21, 2009
    #6
  7. "Jim" <> wrote in message
    news:OH%...

    > Consider Vista, an OS that was pretty much ignored by major business
    > because it had more faults than a 70 year old banger (car here in the uk).
    > This meant that most business's refused to upgrade which was in turn most
    > likely the main reason that MS shipped out Win7 as fast as they could
    > after Vista.


    Actually they didn't. Windows 7 spent as much time, possibly more, in
    development than Vista did. The problem was that *Vista* was shipped out the
    door as fast as it could be done. I believe the reason Win7 is so solid is
    because it wasn't "shipped out the door" A.S.A.P. :)

    > So then, XP may or may not have some life left in it yet, dependant on how
    > big business takes to Win7. I know that personally, the business I work
    > for supports over 3000 client machines in the field, and these will stay
    > XP until more drivers are created and tested for Win7.


    While I don't disagree with your fundamental philosphy as pertains to
    business' general attitude towards operating system upgrades; and most of
    those OS upgrades happen as a result of hardware replacement cycles,
    consider two signficant facts that may alter this situation this time:

    1. Because of *Vista* (and certain economic considerations, as well,
    affecting the recent 18 months), many businesses have stalled hardware
    replacement cycles in the past three years in order to avoid having to deal
    with Vista (or save $$$).

    2. The extremely large number of voices singing the praises of Windows 7,
    unlike those for Vista, or even Windows XP in 2002, will have a significant
    impact on the motivation of businesses -- particularly those who are now
    working with 3-5 year old systems, and *need* to replace their hardware.

    I believe these conditions will actually accelerate the adoption of Windows
    7 at a higher rate than we previously saw the adoption of any of the last
    three versions of Windows (2000, XP, or, of course, Vista).


    > Our internal dept have started using/testing Win7 and have found a few
    > problems. Some that can be managed easily and some that cannot. Currently
    > our DC dept are using Win7 and report that it is brilliant, but in order
    > to print any documents to our (common as muck) HP printers they have to
    > forward them to the Servicedesk as HP do not currently have drivers
    > available.


    Huh... and I have not a whit of problems printing to my HP LaserJet 4M any
    day of the week. Go figger! :)

    Note: As pertains to 'early adopters'... I'd be more impressed with
    organizations that had been testing Win7 since last summer, rather than
    those that are just now starting.


    > Short story? The MCDST won't be wasted. Companies will still be using XP
    > for some years to come. And one thing to consider.... you can upgrade the
    > DST to MCITP in one or two extra exams (cant remember if its one or two)
    > which are directed at Win7.


    But here's the downside -- whether companies will or will not be using
    Windows XP for any amount of time into the future, Windows XP has already
    expired Mainstream Support. Organizations that continue using Windows XP for
    the forseeable future, will be in the same challenged space that those
    organizations still using Windows 2000 have found themselves for the past
    four years.

    As for upgrading the MCDST to an MCITP: Windows 7, there are currently *no*
    published upgrade paths to the forthcoming MCITP: Enterprise Desktop
    Administrator 7 or MCITP: Enterprise Support Technician 7 certifications.
    There are upgrade paths to the MCITP: Vista certifications. I have seen no
    statements that there will be an upgrade path to the MCITP: EST7. The MCITP:
    EDA7 is a new certification and has no downlevel equivalent in Vista or
    WinXP.

    btw, I just took the beta exams for those two Win7 MCITP exams -- and
    they're light years beyond the MCDST in terms of difficulty and subject
    matter.


    > If you have a job where you will be supporting XP, you need the DST. If
    > you try and get a job and only have Win7 quals, you may be up to date, but
    > you will be more or less useless to a company that supports XP due to the
    > differing architecture.


    And, of course, if you want to get stuck working for a company *still* using
    XP three years from now and have no chance of being hired by another company
    who needs a SENIOR desktop technician with a broad skill set, then don't
    think twice about those MCITP Windows 7 certifications -- just focus on the
    MCDST. ;-)

    Now then, as to whether [a] or below is a better solution:

    [a] Invest time in the MCDST, get hired by a company that wants your MCDST,
    get stuck doing Windowx XP work for the next 3 years while you study for a
    MCITP: Windows 7, and then have a cert with no Windows 7 experience whilst
    everybody else is now beta testing Windows 8 . . .

    Forego the Windows XP MCDST, get hired by a company that wants your XP
    *experience* and is already deploying Windows 7, and invest the MCDST time
    on the MCITP: Windows 7 cert, and then, two years later have a Win7 cert
    with Win7 experience . . .

    Personally (and having been there before a couple of times), I'd recommend
    doing everything you can to make sure you don't get stuck in a job with
    outdated technology and a company that's scared of adopting new (proven)
    technologies.

    Note: I'd make exactly the same recommendation to anybody deciding between
    completing an MCSE or the MCITP:EA -- work on the MCITP:EA, first, and
    *then*, if you wish to document your Win2003 expertise, go back and pick up
    the MCSE. Remember, certifications document *experience*. If you already
    have the experience, and can prove it, any employer worth working for will
    value your *experience* a thousand times more over any certification you
    might have. Focus on learning the *new* technology.

    Second NOTE: The point here is not about the *certification*. Truly, an
    MCITP:Win7 or an MCITP:EA is totally useless without Windows 7 experience or
    Windows Server 2008 experience. However, an MCDST or an MCSE certification
    is also just as worthless without any Windows 7 *knowledge* or Windows
    Server 2008 *knowledge* if you wish to remain employed into the next decade.
    In this instance, the point of the new certifications getting preference is
    to focus efforts on learning *current* technology, rather than documenting
    experience with legacy technology, so that you actually have *some*
    marketable job skills. And if you have no experience with either new or
    old -- then there's absolutely no point in the MCDST or MCSE!

    Finally, I'd also argue that an entry level job today with Windows 7 is a
    hundred times better than a senior job with Windows XP, if the senior job is
    going to get you stuck working with Windows XP only for the next 3 years.


    > My advise... go MCP mad... choose your path and get as many of those
    > things under your belt as you can. But learn properly.


    Agreed!

    > I've interviewed what we refer to as 'Magazine Qualified' applicants
    > myself... and they stand out a mile away.. and I too tend to find the
    > quickest way to end the interview politely.


    :)


    --
    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)

    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Microsoft WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
     
    Lawrence Garvin [MVP], Nov 25, 2009
    #7
  8. SteveH

    Richard Rice Guest

    Well cheers gents, having read this full thread, I feel much more informed
    about the situation. I am currently looking towards certification, having
    only depended on my experience from previous jobs. This has been fine so far,
    however has not increased the wage packet just yet.

    One of my particular questions would be the following : How long would it
    take you to study for the mentioned MCITP: Windows 7 cert, to have a good
    chance to pass. I'm expecting about three months worth of effort (15-20 hours
    of study / practise / learning per week). Do people who have already taken
    these tests feel that would be about right?

    N.B. I know this is "technically" in the wrong group (MCDST), however I feel
    its still valid since we are comparing Windows XP training vs Windows 7.
     
    Richard Rice, Dec 7, 2009
    #8
  9. "Richard Rice" <Richard > wrote in message
    news:...

    > One of my particular questions would be the following : How long would it
    > take you to study for the mentioned MCITP: Windows 7 cert, to have a good
    > chance to pass. I'm expecting about three months worth of effort (15-20
    > hours
    > of study / practise / learning per week). Do people who have already taken
    > these tests feel that would be about right?


    I think that a dozen hours a week for three months should be more than
    sufficient.


    --
    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA, MCSA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)

    My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
    Microsoft WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
     
    Lawrence Garvin [MVP], Dec 7, 2009
    #9
  10. SteveH

    Smaketh Guest

    Greetings, gentlemen-

    >>> Please excuse my whimsical nature to poke at anything that looks fun, such is this thread and many involvement within.


    >>> I, then, proceed to plagiarize myself as followed:


    ____________________________________________________________________

    >>> I hope the following links would help in making your decision:


    http://gs.statcounter.com/press/encouraging-start-for-windows-7

    http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php?year=2010

    >>> You could also check into their FAQ for accountability and accuracy for those data. Personally, I do not think I qualify to give you advise on the issue, but you should ask yourself that which company or what kind of work are you going to be in for the next 3 years (Please excuse my usage of 3 instead of 5 in the usual statement to honor the outdated Moore's Law). You may also simplified the matter further by asking the prospect employer (Or the clients, if you are self-employed) with the same question, then look at the ratio of PCs with both OS in question.


    >>> Also, if my reply started to confuse you, immediately go to the following link:


    http://www.whatsmyip.org/stats/

    >>> Good luck and good day to you -!


    ___________________ End Of Plagiarism Transmission _____________________



    >>> And that, was how I ended my prospect as a career counselor. (^^')


    *Happy Saint Patrick's Day-!
     
    Smaketh, Mar 18, 2010
    #10
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