Advice on scanner

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Arash Khodabandeh, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. Hello,

    I am looking for a scanner to scan mainly B&W films.

    Canon CanoScan 9950F:
    http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Hom...x.asp?ComponentID=230302&SourcePageID=26561#1
    Epson Perfection 4990 Photo:
    http://www.epson.co.uk/products/scanners/Perfection4990Photo.htm

    I was told that one problem with scanning B&W is that
    scans don't give a true black and white photos. Some
    scanner give it a bluish tint. some other won't give you
    true blacks etc.

    Does anybody has experience or better have compared
    the behaviour of these two scanners on B&W films?

    What about the Nikon Coolscan?

    Any advice is welcome.

    Many thanks in advance,
    Arash.
     
    Arash Khodabandeh, Aug 23, 2005
    #1
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  2. Arash Khodabandeh

    RSD99 Guest

    "Arash Khodabandeh" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Hello,
    >
    > I am looking for a scanner to scan mainly B&W films.
    >
    > Canon CanoScan 9950F:
    >

    http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Scanners/Flatbed_with_F
    ilm_Scanning/CanonScan9950F/index.asp?ComponentID=230302&SourcePageID=26561
    #1
    > Epson Perfection 4990 Photo:
    > http://www.epson.co.uk/products/scanners/Perfection4990Photo.htm
    >
    > I was told that one problem with scanning B&W is that
    > scans don't give a true black and white photos. Some
    > scanner give it a bluish tint. some other won't give you
    > true blacks etc.
    >
    > Does anybody has experience or better have compared
    > the behaviour of these two scanners on B&W films?
    >
    > What about the Nikon Coolscan?
    >
    > Any advice is welcome.
    >
    > Many thanks in advance,
    > Arash.
    >
    >


    It depends on the size of film that you want to scan.

    The Epson 4870 and 4990 work quite well for medium format and sheet film
    sized B&W film (transparency) scans. However you will probably get
    significantly better results with the Nikon Coolscan 9000 for 35 mm and
    medium format film scanning.

    The scanning software supplied with the Epson Pro scanners (Epson Scan and
    SilverFast AI) does have a 'Grayscale' setting that you can use for
    scanning B&W films. However I have also used three-color (RGB) scanning,
    especially when scanning sepia toned B&W prints, and not had any problems
    with color casts ... including a 'blue tint.'
     
    RSD99, Aug 23, 2005
    #2
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  3. Arash Khodabandeh

    Martin Brown Guest

    Arash Khodabandeh wrote:
    >
    > Hello,
    >
    > I am looking for a scanner to scan mainly B&W films.
    >
    > Canon CanoScan 9950F:
    > http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Hom...x.asp?ComponentID=230302&SourcePageID=26561#1
    >
    > Epson Perfection 4990 Photo:
    > http://www.epson.co.uk/products/scanners/Perfection4990Photo.htm
    >
    > I was told that one problem with scanning B&W is that
    > scans don't give a true black and white photos. Some
    > scanner give it a bluish tint. some other won't give you
    > true blacks etc.


    Even if they do it is no great loss since you can collapse an RGB scan
    into a single luminance image if required. I have never seen any
    problems of colour cast with my (now elderly) Nikon CS III.
    >
    > Does anybody has experience or better have compared
    > the behaviour of these two scanners on B&W films?
    >
    > What about the Nikon Coolscan?


    The worst problem scanning traditional silver black and white material
    is that digital ice goes absolurtely crazy so there is no easy way for
    scratch elimination on old damaged negatives.

    Regards,
    Martin Brown
     
    Martin Brown, Aug 23, 2005
    #3
  4. Arash Khodabandeh

    kz8rt3 Guest

    In article <deejjd$3v1$>,
    Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    > Arash Khodabandeh wrote:
    > >
    > > Hello,
    > >
    > > I am looking for a scanner to scan mainly B&W films.
    > >
    > > Canon CanoScan 9950F:
    > > http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Scanners/Flatbed_with_Fi
    > > lm_Scanning/CanonScan9950F/index.asp?ComponentID=230302&SourcePageID=26561#1
    > >
    > >
    > > Epson Perfection 4990 Photo:
    > > http://www.epson.co.uk/products/scanners/Perfection4990Photo.htm
    > >
    > > I was told that one problem with scanning B&W is that
    > > scans don't give a true black and white photos. Some
    > > scanner give it a bluish tint. some other won't give you
    > > true blacks etc.

    >
    > Even if they do it is no great loss since you can collapse an RGB scan
    > into a single luminance image if required. I have never seen any
    > problems of colour cast with my (now elderly) Nikon CS III.
    > >
    > > Does anybody has experience or better have compared
    > > the behaviour of these two scanners on B&W films?
    > >
    > > What about the Nikon Coolscan?

    >
    > The worst problem scanning traditional silver black and white material
    > is that digital ice goes absolurtely crazy so there is no easy way for
    > scratch elimination on old damaged negatives.


    Yes, I had a coolscan (4000?) in '99 and ICE messed them up bad. I would
    scan in grayscale or desaturate them in PS after scanning in color.
    Either way it came out very well. Very easy to clone the scratched out
    when scanned in grayscale.

    If you have $1000 to spend my recommendation is the the Nikon 5000D
    super coolscan. But it seems like you don't.
     
    kz8rt3, Aug 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Arash Khodabandeh

    Father Kodak Guest

    On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:45:27 GMT, kz8rt3 <> wrote:

    >In article <deejjd$3v1$>,
    > Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    >


    >> The worst problem scanning traditional silver black and white material
    >> is that digital ice goes absolurtely crazy so there is no easy way for
    >> scratch elimination on old damaged negatives.

    >
    >Yes, I had a coolscan (4000?) in '99 and ICE messed them up bad. I would


    Can't you turn off the ICE option?

    >scan in grayscale or desaturate them in PS after scanning in color.


    If ICE goes "crazy" do you still get a proper scan of the negative.

    >Either way it came out very well. Very easy to clone the scratched out
    >when scanned in grayscale.


    By hand of course?
    >
    >If you have $1000 to spend my recommendation is the the Nikon 5000D
    >super coolscan. But it seems like you don't.



    If you go to this web page and then compare overall specs for the
    5000D and the 9000D, you might notice that only the 9000D claims:

    Improved rod (?) dispersion for smoother picture grain reproductions.

    Do you have any idea what this means? Or whether it is also present
    in the 5000D but just not mentioned?
     
    Father Kodak, Aug 24, 2005
    #5
  6. Arash Khodabandeh

    Guest

    Arash Khodabandeh wrote:
    > Does anybody has experience or better have compared
    > the behaviour of these two scanners on B&W films?


    Recently got the 4990. It works a treat with b&w, colour negative
    or color slides, from what I've seen so far. In fatc, it is close to
    perfect for colour negatives, to the point I'm considering using
    them again!
    I do scan the b&w as colour, load it into an editor and desaturate:
    it always appears to give better range, no matter what gear I use.
     
    , Aug 24, 2005
    #6
  7. Arash Khodabandeh

    John Bean Guest

    On 24 Aug 2005 00:18:04 -0700, wrote:

    >
    >Arash Khodabandeh wrote:
    >> Does anybody has experience or better have compared
    >> the behaviour of these two scanners on B&W films?

    >
    >Recently got the 4990. It works a treat with b&w, colour negative
    >or color slides, from what I've seen so far. In fatc, it is close to
    >perfect for colour negatives, to the point I'm considering using
    >them again!


    I agree. I bought one to replace a not so good old Canon
    flatbed mainly for MF film but I'm amazed how good this
    scanner is with 35mm film, better in fact than the Minolta
    Scan Dual III that I have. It can produce good scans of some
    dense Velvia that I was previously unable to scan at all. I
    can certainly recommend the Epson 4990.

    >I do scan the b&w as colour, load it into an editor and desaturate:
    >it always appears to give better range, no matter what gear I use.


    Oddly enough I used to do that with the Minolta, but I use
    the Epson in grayscale mode and like the results a lot.

    Ed Hamrick's Vuescan does a really good job with the 4990,
    but the supplied Epson software isn't as bad as (say)
    Minolta's as long as you have reasonably normal originals to
    scan.

    --
    Regards

    John Bean
     
    John Bean, Aug 24, 2005
    #7
  8. Arash Khodabandeh

    Noons Guest

    Arash Khodabandeh apparently said,on my timestamp of 23/08/2005 4:59 PM:

    > I was told that one problem with scanning B&W is that
    > scans don't give a true black and white photos. Some
    > scanner give it a bluish tint. some other won't give you
    > true blacks etc.


    That seems to be the case. Just scan in colour, then load
    it into an image editor and desaturate: you'll end up
    with good density range.

    > Does anybody has experience or better have compared
    > the behaviour of these two scanners on B&W films?


    I've used my 4990 with old bw prints and it is simply
    superb. Like everything else in this scanner.
    So good, I'm going to medium/large format film and
    scanning it with this thing: much, much cheaper than
    digital.



    --
    Cheers
    Nuno Souto
    in sunny Sydney, Australia
    am
     
    Noons, Aug 24, 2005
    #8
  9. Arash Khodabandeh

    GEO Guest

    On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:59:28 +0200, Arash Khodabandeh
    <> wrote:

    >I am looking for a scanner to scan mainly B&W films.
    >


    You might want to ask in comp.periphs.scanners

    Good luck.
    Geo
     
    GEO , Aug 24, 2005
    #9
  10. Arash Khodabandeh

    kz8rt3 Guest

    In article <>,
    Father Kodak <> wrote:

    > On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:45:27 GMT, kz8rt3 <> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <deejjd$3v1$>,
    > > Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    > >

    >
    > >> The worst problem scanning traditional silver black and white material
    > >> is that digital ice goes absolurtely crazy so there is no easy way for
    > >> scratch elimination on old damaged negatives.

    > >
    > >Yes, I had a coolscan (4000?) in '99 and ICE messed them up bad. I would

    >
    > Can't you turn off the ICE option?


    Yup.

    >
    > >scan in grayscale or desaturate them in PS after scanning in color.

    >
    > If ICE goes "crazy" do you still get a proper scan of the negative.


    Nope.

    >
    > >Either way it came out very well. Very easy to clone the scratched out
    > >when scanned in grayscale.

    >
    > By hand of course?


    Yes, but only if it is scanned with ICE off. You can not fix B&W scanned
    using ICE on.

    > >
    > >If you have $1000 to spend my recommendation is the the Nikon 5000D
    > >super coolscan. But it seems like you don't.

    >
    >
    > If you go to this web page and then compare overall specs for the
    > 5000D and the 9000D, you might notice that only the 9000D claims:
    >
    > Improved rod (?) dispersion for smoother picture grain reproductions.
    >
    > Do you have any idea what this means? Or whether it is also present
    > in the 5000D but just not mentioned?


    I have NO idea. rod dispersion? Sheesh.

    On Nikons site it does not mention grain, only "Nikons proprietary rod
    dispersion LED illumination -- no maintenance, no warmup time, and no
    risk of heat-related damage to films."

    But when I looked at it on a dealers web site I see where you misread.
     
    kz8rt3, Aug 24, 2005
    #10
  11. Arash Khodabandeh

    Thad Smith Guest

    Arash Khodabandeh wrote:

    > I was told that one problem with scanning B&W is that
    > scans don't give a true black and white photos. Some
    > scanner give it a bluish tint. some other won't give you
    > true blacks etc.


    I don't consider that a scanner problem. B&W negatives are intended
    to print on monochrome paper. The digital equivalent are to do a
    monochrome scan or to convert to monochrome in the photo editor after
    scanning. I haven't scanned B&W negatives, but for starting with B&W
    prints, I usually do a color scan in order to better spot and deal
    with stains, ink spots, etc. that show up in a different color. That
    might be a benefit for negative scans, as well.

    Thad
     
    Thad Smith, Aug 25, 2005
    #11
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