Advice for angry D10 owner please

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ted Rogers, Aug 8, 2003.

  1. Ted Rogers

    Ted Rogers Guest

    Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900 which I
    was very pleased with.

    When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were already
    set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it is,
    however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes

    In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often demonstrate
    cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything pristine
    for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.

    Am I over-reacting here?

    Thank you

    Ted
    Ted Rogers, Aug 8, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Ted Rogers

    bmoag Guest

    If you have doubts you should return the unit. I have purchased many items
    with similar tell-tale marks of prior use of one form or another. Sometimes
    the unit was clearly used as a demo, sometimes the package has been opened
    and clumsily resealed in part although some of the internal packaging is
    pristine. The truth is often the main item works fine, but it is not "new."
    900 pounds seems like a very high price anyway.
    bmoag, Aug 8, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. i think it is a standard practice of many shops to sell
    item that were returned in perfect condiction within the
    return limit , as new ones.
    even B&H does it .
    Since you were in store, and not buyin via web, you should
    have asked the sales person to open the package for you there and
    there itself and taken some test shots.
    bhaskar

    Ted Rogers wrote:
    > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900 which I
    > was very pleased with.
    >
    > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were already
    > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it is,
    > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes
    >
    > In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    > also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often demonstrate
    > cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything pristine
    > for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.
    >
    > Am I over-reacting here?
    >
    > Thank you
    >
    > Ted
    >
    >


    --
    bhaskar
    http://members.fortunecity.com/webpagebuilder1
    Bhaskar Karambelkar, Aug 8, 2003
    #3
  4. > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it

    is,

    maybe u inserted memory card used before in other camera ?
    filenames r continued in such case...
    Tomash Bednarz, Aug 8, 2003
    #4
  5. Ted Rogers

    JK Guest

    You are not overreacting. I also like getting factory sealed merchandise.
    To be guaranteed of that though, manufacturers need to seal their
    merchandise with tamper proof seals, and retailers need to sell
    returned opened items at a discount, which also probably means
    that they will have to charge a fee for opened items that are returned
    and are not defective. I like the idea of sealed merchandise and restocking
    fees. I hate the idea of paying full price for something that someone else
    played with(and possibly abused?) then returned.

    Ted Rogers wrote:

    > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900 which I
    > was very pleased with.
    >
    > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were already
    > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it is,
    > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes
    >
    > In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    > also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often demonstrate
    > cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything pristine
    > for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.
    >
    > Am I over-reacting here?
    >
    > Thank you
    >
    > Ted
    JK, Aug 8, 2003
    #5
  6. Ted Rogers

    JK Guest

    Bhaskar Karambelkar wrote:

    > i think it is a standard practice of many shops to sell
    > item that were returned in perfect condiction within the
    > return limit , as new ones.
    > even B&H does it .


    Imo returned opened items should not be allowed to be
    sold as new.

    >
    > Since you were in store, and not buyin via web, you should
    > have asked the sales person to open the package for you there and
    > there itself and taken some test shots.
    > bhaskar
    >
    > Ted Rogers wrote:
    > > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    > > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900 which I
    > > was very pleased with.
    > >
    > > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    > > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were already
    > > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    > > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    > > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it is,
    > > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes
    > >
    > > In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    > > also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often demonstrate
    > > cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything pristine
    > > for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.
    > >
    > > Am I over-reacting here?
    > >
    > > Thank you
    > >
    > > Ted
    > >
    > >

    >
    > --
    > bhaskar
    > http://members.fortunecity.com/webpagebuilder1
    JK, Aug 8, 2003
    #6
  7. > Yes - I did do that - thats a good point, I used my card from the D30. Is
    > there a way of resetting this counter anywhere?


    maybe try to reformat ur card or delete any file on ur CF using card reader
    (propably some of them counts ur shots)
    i got the same problem with card used before in g5
    Tomash Bednarz, Aug 8, 2003
    #7
  8. Ted Rogers

    IMKen Guest

    Return the camera for a refund and purchase from a dealer that is not a
    cheat. You paid for a new, unused camera and should have received one.
    don't wait another day, you have been cheated.


    "Ted Rogers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900 which

    I
    > was very pleased with.
    >
    > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were

    already
    > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it

    is,
    > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes
    >
    > In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    > also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often

    demonstrate
    > cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything pristine
    > for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.
    >
    > Am I over-reacting here?
    >
    > Thank you
    >
    > Ted
    >
    >
    IMKen, Aug 8, 2003
    #8
  9. Ted Rogers

    Mister M. Guest

    On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 05:36:51 +0100, "Ted Rogers" <>
    wrote:
    >When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    >not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were already
    >set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    >insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    >test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    >the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it is,
    >however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes


    Possibly the count is a result from inserting you old D30 card (as you
    mentioned in another part of this thread).

    However, why bother at all as long as the camera is in pristine
    condition and works fine? What more do you want? New is only new until
    you take the first shot yourself.
    It seems to me that there are only a few thing relevant:
    1) It is in very good condition (as new)
    2) It has not seen a hard working life
    3) It is fully operational.

    (actually 1) and 2) are almost identical)

    m
    Mister M., Aug 8, 2003
    #9
  10. "Ted Rogers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900 which

    I
    > was very pleased with.
    >
    > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were

    already
    > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it

    is,
    > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes
    >
    > In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    > also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often

    demonstrate
    > cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything pristine
    > for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.
    >
    > Am I over-reacting here?
    >
    > Thank you
    >
    > Ted
    >
    >


    Maybe while you were drooling over the camera you didn't hear the
    salesperson say it was a customer returned item. So besides being timid as a
    mouse you probably have selective hearing.
    Mark_
    mark_digital©, Aug 8, 2003
    #10
  11. Ted Rogers

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Ted Rogers wrote:

    > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900 which I
    > was very pleased with.
    >
    > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were already
    > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it is,
    > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes
    >
    > In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    > also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often demonstrate
    > cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything pristine
    > for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.
    >
    > Am I over-reacting here?
    >
    > Thank you
    >
    > Ted
    >
    >

    No, you paid too much for a used, or probably refurbished Camera. Tell
    them that for that price, you want a NEW one.
    Ron Hunter, Aug 8, 2003
    #11
  12. Ted Rogers

    Ted Rogers Guest

    "mark_digital©" <> wrote in message
    news:bgvetm$3qm$...
    >
    > "Ted Rogers" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    > > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900

    which
    > I
    > > was very pleased with.
    > >
    > > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but

    was
    > > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were

    > already
    > > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had

    to
    > > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's

    (with
    > > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it

    > is,
    > > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes
    > >
    > > In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    > > also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often

    > demonstrate
    > > cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything

    pristine
    > > for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.
    > >
    > > Am I over-reacting here?
    > >
    > > Thank you
    > >
    > > Ted
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Maybe while you were drooling over the camera you didn't hear the
    > salesperson say it was a customer returned item. So besides being timid as

    a
    > mouse you probably have selective hearing.
    > Mark_
    >

    Thank you, Mark, for lambasting my character for asking a simple question. I
    am not timid nor have selective hearing. The box was handed over to me, the
    contents displayed in their original wrappings and as the retailer is well
    known and has a good reputation took it in good faith that this was a new,
    unused item.

    If you must insult people why don't you go to another group where that type
    of comment is welcomed.

    Ted
    Ted Rogers, Aug 8, 2003
    #12
  13. Ted Rogers

    Kenny Guest

    "Ted Rogers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of

    photgraphic
    > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900

    which I
    > was very pleased with.
    >
    > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but

    was
    > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were

    already
    > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had

    to
    > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a

    few
    > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's

    (with
    > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used.

    it is,
    > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes



    Ted,

    The file counter issue could be due to you using a CF card from your
    other camera. The date and time may have been set on manufacture, but
    unlikely. Canon are not exactly famous for packaging and they tend not
    seal boxes. You can re-set the camera by removing the button battery
    (which by the way comes fitted).

    If it is Jessops or Jacobs then you should not have an issue in getting
    it exchanged. If it has a serial number in the 05* or 06* range and
    firmware 1.0.1 then it is a recent camera.

    I have two 10D bodies and keep separate CF cards for them to avoid
    confusing the image numbering.

    Kenny
    Kenny, Aug 8, 2003
    #13
  14. Ted Rogers

    JK Guest

    MarkH wrote:

    > JK <> wrote in news::
    >
    > >
    > > Bhaskar Karambelkar wrote:
    > >
    > >> i think it is a standard practice of many shops to sell
    > >> item that were returned in perfect condiction within the
    > >> return limit , as new ones.
    > >> even B&H does it .

    > >
    > > Imo returned opened items should not be allowed to be
    > > sold as new.

    >
    > Surely then you must believe that no-one should be able to return non-
    > faulty merchandise and expect a full refund?


    Yes.

    >
    >
    > It seems that there are people who think that they can buy something,
    > change their mind, and return it. All at the shops expense.


    Many people.

    >
    >
    > --
    > Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    > See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
    > "There are 10 types of people, those that
    > understand binary and those that don't"
    JK, Aug 8, 2003
    #14
  15. Ted Rogers

    JK Guest

    "mark_digital©" wrote:

    > "Ted Rogers" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    > > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900 which

    > I
    > > was very pleased with.
    > >
    > > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    > > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were

    > already
    > > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    > > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    > > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it

    > is,
    > > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes
    > >
    > > In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    > > also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often

    > demonstrate
    > > cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything pristine
    > > for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.
    > >
    > > Am I over-reacting here?
    > >
    > > Thank you
    > >
    > > Ted
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Maybe while you were drooling over the camera you didn't hear the
    > salesperson say it was a customer returned item. So besides being timid as a
    > mouse you probably have selective hearing.


    There is nothing necessarily wrong with an opened item that was returned
    if it is marked as such, and discounted appropriately. It is imo wrong if it is
    sold as new at full price.

    >
    > Mark_
    JK, Aug 8, 2003
    #15
  16. Ted Rogers

    MarkH Guest

    JK <> wrote in news::

    >
    >
    > MarkH wrote:
    >
    >> JK <> wrote in news::
    >>
    >> >
    >> > Bhaskar Karambelkar wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> i think it is a standard practice of many shops to sell
    >> >> item that were returned in perfect condiction within the
    >> >> return limit , as new ones.
    >> >> even B&H does it .
    >> >
    >> > Imo returned opened items should not be allowed to be
    >> > sold as new.

    >>
    >> Surely then you must believe that no-one should be able to return non-
    >> faulty merchandise and expect a full refund?

    >
    > Yes.


    In that case your view is consistent and fair. I happen to agree and to my
    recollection I have never returned something that wasn’t faulty to any
    shop. When I buy something, I live with my decision.

    In another thread in this group there is someone who suggests that people
    don’t buy from one retailer because they charge a restocking fee for
    returning non-faulty goods. As if everyone should have a right to go
    around buying and returning merchandise as they feel like. Hell, people
    could buy a camera on Friday, shoot a wedding on Saturday and return it on
    Monday claiming to be unsatisfied. If I were a merchant, I would charge a
    20% restocking fee if I could get away with it.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
    MarkH, Aug 8, 2003
    #16
  17. Ted Rogers

    jeff liss Guest

    "Ted Rogers" <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Yesterday I bought a new EOS 10D from a well known chain of photgraphic
    > shops here in the UK. I traded in some other equipment and paid £900 which I
    > was very pleased with.
    >
    > When I got the camera home, the internal wrapping was all in place but was
    > not factory sealed as you would expect. Also, the date and time were already
    > set on the camera (if I remember correctly, when I bought my D30 I had to
    > insert the small lithium battery myself). Furthermore, after doing a few
    > test shots I saw that the file numbers started from the early 300's (with
    > the naming set to 'continuous') so clearly the camera has been used. it is,
    > however, is in perfect condition with no obvious faults or blemishes
    >
    > In my view I have been sold a used camera as new as evidenced above, but
    > also know that this particular chain are jelpful and will often demonstrate
    > cameras to potential customers but I would have liked everything pristine
    > for something which I had to save very hard to purchase.
    >
    > Am I over-reacting here?
    >
    > Thank you
    >
    > Ted


    ===============================================================================
    There was a thread on the board dealing with the same topic as yours.
    Read what others have said about "factory fresh" vs. open stock.
    You have a few options: 1) return it for another one. 2)ask for
    compensation in the form of merchandise or money back. 3) use the
    camera, check it out, then determine if it's acceptable or not. If you
    bought from a reputable store, you don't really have a problem here.
    That's the advantage of "brick and mortar" vs. mail order or internet
    purchases.
    Good luck.
    jeff liss, Aug 8, 2003
    #17
  18. > Am I over-reacting here?

    Not at all if you were sold a previously used camera as one that was new in the
    box. That is deceptive. I would never buy from a company again that did
    that to me.

    When people bring things back, they should always hide a note in the battery
    compartment or instruction manual so that if it is put back on the shelf and
    sold to someone else, the next guy can prove it was used.

    Who knows what type of wrong AC adapter was fed into that camera from the guy
    before, or what other damage you will not see from the outside.
    Jon Wordsworth, Aug 8, 2003
    #18
  19. Ted Rogers

    Ted Rogers Guest

    Re: Advice for angry D10 owner please - Follow up

    "Jon Wordsworth" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > Am I over-reacting here?

    >
    > Not at all if you were sold a previously used camera as one that was new

    in the
    > box. That is deceptive. I would never buy from a company again that

    did
    > that to me.
    >
    > When people bring things back, they should always hide a note in the

    battery
    > compartment or instruction manual so that if it is put back on the shelf

    and
    > sold to someone else, the next guy can prove it was used.
    >
    > Who knows what type of wrong AC adapter was fed into that camera from the

    guy
    > before, or what other damage you will not see from the outside.
    >

    I took the advice of most of the posters and rang the store this afternoon.
    They were most apologetic and offered me a brand new replacement.
    Unfortunately they did not have one in stock - I was a bit peeved as I had
    an event to photograph this weekend - but they told me to go ahead and use
    the existing one for the weekend and bring it back next week when a factory
    fresh unit will be offered.

    Thats impressive and I'm glad I complained.

    Thanks to everyone.

    Ted
    Ted Rogers, Aug 8, 2003
    #19
  20. > Imo returned opened items should not be allowed to be
    > sold as new.


    Forget opinion, it is illegal in most places to sell things that are other than what
    they are advertised.

    Here is a great example of an honest company that does things right:
    http://www.ccrane.com/orphans.asp

    To bad they don't sell the cameras we want.
    Jon Wordsworth, Aug 8, 2003
    #20
    1. Advertising

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