Adobe RGB (1998) or sRGB IEC61966-2.1 in my Nikon DSLR?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Stealth, Mar 28, 2005.

  1. Stealth

    Stealth Guest

    Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons of
    setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?

    I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.

    Which is better and why?

    TIA-
     
    Stealth, Mar 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. Stealth

    Owamanga Guest

    On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:35:38 -0800, "Stealth"
    <> wrote:

    >Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons of
    >setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    >IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?
    >
    >I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.
    >
    >Which is better and why?


    I'd select the sRGB due to the ever increasing number of devices that
    support this. Many digital wet-printers work in this color space, as
    do the latest LCD monitors. Each color space has it's pros and cons,
    but sRGB is *THE* standard that has emerged out of the quagmire, and
    for that reason alone, would be my choice.

    Here is a discussion on the differences, and when you should switch:

    http://www.nulab.com.au/newsletter/november2004/sRGBViaAdobe.htm

    (Also a really bad example of when to use GIF files for web graphics)

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
     
    Owamanga, Mar 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. Stealth

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons
    >of setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    >IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?


    If you're shooting RAW (NEF I guess is Nikon's term) it doesn't matter
    since this is ignored and you define the working space at the time you
    do RAW conversion. If you're shooting jpegs then it will get assigned
    when you shoot.

    >I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.


    AdobeRGB has a wider gamut (range of colors), both have the same bit
    depth.

    >Which is better and why?


    sRGB is better if you are printing with on-line shops or Wal-Mart or
    Costco type stores using the Fuji Frontier type printers. sRGB is
    better if you are shooting mainly for the web. sRGB is better if using
    a non-color managed workflow or using a consumer editor like Paint Shop
    Pro (which, AFAIK, doesn't recognize other working spaces). AdobeRGB
    is better if you are printing on the top of the line inkjets or high
    end laser printers like the LightJet or Chromira. So it depends on how
    you're using the files ... I shoot about 80% AdobeRGB and 20% in even
    wider working spaces like Ektaspace and never convert directly to sRGB
    (I just convert-to-profile later in the flow in Photoshop if I need a
    jpeg for the web), but I'm not printing at Wal-Mart ...

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Mar 28, 2005
    #3
  4. "Stealth" <> wrote in news:U%Y1e.245093
    $FM3.123037@fed1read02:

    > Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons of
    > setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    > IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?
    >
    > I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.
    >
    > Which is better and why?
    >


    Adobe RGB has a larger gamut and a superior color space.
    It is also the standard for professional printing. So ...
    it might seem like a good idea to use Adobe RGB.

    But - most devices in your home - e.g. your printer, your
    screen and also all cheaper cameras support sRGB. Some
    photo software may also only support sRGB. I also think, but
    I am not sure, that photo shops also assumes sRGB. So ... it
    might seem like a good idea to use sRGB.

    :)

    Life is difficult sometimes.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Mar 28, 2005
    #4
  5. Stealth

    Marco Guest

    I shoot with D1X and in RAW so my choice is strictly Adobe RGB. Use
    professional printing or Epson 2100/4000

    Marco
    http://www.sithean.info


    "Stealth" <> wrote in message
    news:U%Y1e.245093$FM3.123037@fed1read02...
    > Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons of
    > setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    > IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?
    >
    > I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.
    >
    > Which is better and why?
    >
    > TIA-
    >
     
    Marco, Mar 28, 2005
    #5
  6. Stealth

    Scott W Guest

    Scott W, Mar 28, 2005
    #6
  7. Stealth

    Guest

    Kodachrome 64, bubba!

    Stealth wrote:
    > Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons

    of
    > setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    > IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?
    >
    > I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.
    >
    > Which is better and why?
    >
    > TIA-
     
    , Mar 28, 2005
    #7
  8. Stealth

    Owamanga Guest

    On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:34:46 +0000 (UTC), "Marco" <>
    wrote:

    >I shoot with D1X and in RAW so my choice is strictly Adobe RGB. Use
    >professional printing or Epson 2100/4000
    >
    >Marco


    Marco, where do you get professional wet-prints made in Adobe RGB?

    From what I've seen, everyone seems to be using sRGB.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
     
    Owamanga, Mar 28, 2005
    #8
  9. Stealth

    Owamanga Guest

    Owamanga, Mar 28, 2005
    #9
  10. Stealth

    Bill Hilton Guest

    > Owamanga writes ...
    >
    > where do you get professional wet-prints made in Adobe RGB?


    Any pro lab with a LightJet or Chromira, like Calypso or Laser Light or
    West Coast Imaging, or with a high end inkjet like the Epson 9600.
    They expect the files to be in AdobeRGB or a wider space like
    Ektaspace, unless you know enough to convert to their printer profile
    and preflight it. If you sent them an sRGB file they'd probably laugh.
    They would be happy to print it for you but they'd laugh.

    >From what I've seen, everyone seems to be using sRGB.


    The Fuji Frontier type machines are dumbed down to expect sRGB because
    the people who get their prints at places like Costco or Wal-Mart are
    sending in jpegs defaulted to sRGB, likely not knowing any better.
    Wal-Mart is not "everybody" when it comes to printing though.

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Mar 28, 2005
    #10
  11. Stealth

    Owamanga Guest

    On 28 Mar 2005 13:11:30 -0800, "Bill Hilton" <>
    wrote:

    >> Owamanga writes ...
    >>
    >> where do you get professional wet-prints made in Adobe RGB?

    >
    >Any pro lab with a LightJet or Chromira, like Calypso or Laser Light or
    >West Coast Imaging, or with a high end inkjet like the Epson 9600.


    They aren't wet prints are they? I meant real prints onto photographic
    paper like Endura, not poxy ink-jet stuff.

    >They expect the files to be in AdobeRGB or a wider space like
    >Ektaspace, unless you know enough to convert to their printer profile
    >and preflight it.


    If they offer the ICC profiles for their printers, It would be a good
    idea to use them.

    >If you sent them an sRGB file they'd probably laugh.


    Really? Nice people to work with then.

    > They would be happy to print it for you but they'd laugh.


    Maybe I'll email them and ask them if they'd really laugh.

    >>From what I've seen, everyone seems to be using sRGB.

    >
    >The Fuji Frontier type machines are dumbed down to expect sRGB because
    >the people who get their prints at places like Costco or Wal-Mart are
    >sending in jpegs defaulted to sRGB, likely not knowing any better.
    >Wal-Mart is not "everybody" when it comes to printing though.


    I'm not talking about Costco or Wal-Mart, otherwise I would have said
    so. Strange that you consider them 'pro labs' though.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
     
    Owamanga, Mar 28, 2005
    #11
  12. Stealth

    Guest

    I prefer plastic myself.

    Owamanga (not-this-bit) wrote:
    > On 28 Mar 2005 12:42:57 -0800, wrote:
    >
    > >Kodachrome 64, bubba!

    >
    > Cardboard or plastic mount?
    >
    > --
    > Owamanga!
    > http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
     
    , Mar 28, 2005
    #12
  13. Stealth

    Bubbabob Guest

    "Stealth" <> wrote:

    > Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons of
    > setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    > IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?
    >
    > I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.
    >
    > Which is better and why?
    >
    > TIA-
    >
    >


    Shooting and working in sRGB is like strangling your image at birth.
    Shoot and fix in the largest color space that your monitor and camera
    will handle and then downgrade the image to sRGB's noticeably smaller
    gamut when you need to put it on the net or show it in a 2nd rate program
    that doesn't support professional color spaces.

    If you're making your prints on an inkjet printer, it becomes a moot
    point as the small gamut of the printer will become the weakest link in
    the chain.
     
    Bubbabob, Mar 28, 2005
    #13
  14. Stealth

    McLeod Guest

    On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:35:38 -0800, "Stealth"
    <> wrote:

    >Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons of
    >setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    >IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?
    >
    >I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.
    >
    >Which is better and why?
    >
    >TIA


    As I understand it, Adobe RGB has a wider gamut than sRGB, and once
    you capture your image you can convert it to sRGB if you plan on
    printing or using on the web, but you lose the additional colour range
    if you go the other way. What I have read is that right now very few
    output devices can make use of the Adobe RGB colourspace, but your
    archived images should be saved as Adobe RGB because the technology is
    sure to be here in the near future.
     
    McLeod, Mar 28, 2005
    #14
  15. Stealth

    Bubbabob Guest

    "Bill Hilton" <> wrote:

    > The Fuji Frontier type machines are dumbed down to expect sRGB because
    > the people who get their prints at places like Costco or Wal-Mart are
    > sending in jpegs defaulted to sRGB, likely not knowing any better.
    > Wal-Mart is not "everybody" when it comes to printing though.
    >


    Most CostCos have converted from Fuji Frontiers to Noritsu 3101 printers.
    There is an obvious improvement when you feed one of these with a file
    converted from Adobe RGB to the 3101 profile over the results you'll get
    starting with sRGB and converting it to the 3101's profile.
     
    Bubbabob, Mar 28, 2005
    #15
  16. Stealth

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On 28 Mar 2005 11:56:28 -0800, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems "Bill
    Hilton" <> wrote:

    >>Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons
    >>of setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    >>IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?

    >
    >If you're shooting RAW (NEF I guess is Nikon's term) it doesn't matter
    >since this is ignored and you define the working space at the time you
    >do RAW conversion. If you're shooting jpegs then it will get assigned
    >when you shoot.


    If shooting jpegs with Adobe RGB assigned, be sure you have installed the
    firmware B version 1.03. This fixes a problem where the colorspace isn't
    properly identified in the exif data.
    ----------
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
     
    Ed Ruf, Mar 29, 2005
    #16
  17. Stealth

    Stealth Guest

    Thanks to all! Much appreciated!

    Given that I do all my own printing on my Epson 2200 through Photoshop CS, I
    think I'll set my new D2X to Adobe RGB.

    Once again, thanks to all...


    "Owamanga" <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:35:38 -0800, "Stealth"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons of
    >>setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    >>IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?
    >>
    >>I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.
    >>
    >>Which is better and why?

    >
    > I'd select the sRGB due to the ever increasing number of devices that
    > support this. Many digital wet-printers work in this color space, as
    > do the latest LCD monitors. Each color space has it's pros and cons,
    > but sRGB is *THE* standard that has emerged out of the quagmire, and
    > for that reason alone, would be my choice.
    >
    > Here is a discussion on the differences, and when you should switch:
    >
    > http://www.nulab.com.au/newsletter/november2004/sRGBViaAdobe.htm
    >
    > (Also a really bad example of when to use GIF files for web graphics)
    >
    > --
    > Owamanga!
    > http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
     
    Stealth, Mar 29, 2005
    #17
  18. Stealth

    YoYo Guest

    Stealth answer your own question!

    Take a shot with aRGB and take the same shot in sRGB then print both. If
    the photographer can't see then who can?


    "Stealth" <> wrote in message
    news:U%Y1e.245093$FM3.123037@fed1read02...
    > Can someone please explain to me (in simple terms) the pros and cons of
    > setting my Nikon DSLR to either the Adobe RGB (1998) or the sRGB
    > IEC61966-2.1 color space in my Nikon DSLR?
    >
    > I've heard that one of them has more color range/depth.
    >
    > Which is better and why?
    >
    > TIA-
    >
    >




    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
     
    YoYo, Mar 29, 2005
    #18
  19. Stealth

    paul Guest

    YoYo wrote:

    >
    > If the photographer can't see then who can?



    I looked at a variety of pictures and the difference is only visible for
    real high chroma images. Here's one that had noticeable differences:
    <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=California/Bay-Area/San-Francisco&PG=1&PIC=5>

    In photoshop you can preview the out-of-gamut colors in grey. But for
    many pictures it doesn't matter much.
     
    paul, Mar 29, 2005
    #19
  20. Stealth

    paul Guest

    Owamanga wrote:
    >
    > Here is a discussion on the differences, and when you should switch:
    >
    > http://www.nulab.com.au/newsletter/november2004/sRGBViaAdobe.htm



    "So if you capture an image in RAW, process into a 16 bit, Adobe RGB
    TIFF file, then convert to your printers output space in Photoshop, you
    will get the most data (color, tone and texture) from your camera and
    produce a terrific looking print. But this process took forever! Now if
    you’ve captured that same image as a standard 8 bit JPEG in the sRGB
    space, then converted it to your printers output space in Photoshop,
    you will produce a great looking print. Notice I didn’t say a terrific
    print, only a great print. These great looking prints took much less
    time and much less effort to produce (ever custom process 350 RAW
    files?) and can make you just as much money as the terrific ones if you
    catch my drift."
     
    paul, Mar 29, 2005
    #20
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